[Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

[felinoel]

See, we call this in the business a thread derailing. Let's bring this baby back on its way to Ba Sing Se, eh?

Hmmm, we did go a bit off topic for a short while but that was a few posts ago, didn't we make it back on our own?

Anyways in the thread for making forms I posted something or other along the lines of me noticing the canon higher version of airbending, gravitybending, and the people over there didn't seem to mind it too much but everywhere else I go they won't listen to me even though its canon. Any thoughts on this?

[Katasi]

I think that should be covered by the maximum DC (60) allowing you to tailor your jump distance, working like hovering, or precise fast flight. The check still would need to be made every round, though.

Ok, gotcha. Which would explain why even the most powerful of them can only do it during the comet.

[felinoel]

Ok, gotcha. Which would explain why even the most powerful of them can only do it during the comet.

Did anyone ever figure out how much power that comet gives? Also how much power a full moon gives?

[Katasi]

Did anyone ever figure out how much power that comet gives? Also how much power a full moon gives?

I'd guess the full moon would give a +5.... while the comet with as rare as it is, and the obvious effect it had in the show.... probably around a +30.

[Enlong]

Even Toph, already an extremely powerful earthbender in Book 2, could only vaguely fling sand about in The Library and The Desert. That would imply that while all earthbenders can learn to bend sand, it does require special training to do effectively. I would also like to point everyone towards the Dust earthbending seed, which does allow basic control over small particles of earth; i.e. sand.

Now let's start on deciding these three things, huh? My cote on Sandbending has already been cast, making it 2 - 0 in favor of starting from scratch.

I agree with having a Dust seed. It jives with the fact that Toph was able to work out Sandbending on her own to the point where she was able to make a sand-sculpture of Ba Sing Se.

[felinoel]

I'd guess the full moon would give a +5.... while the comet with as rare as it is, and the obvious effect it had in the show.... probably around a +30.

Oh wow, that would make even the most novice of firebenders powerful

[Mephibosheth]

AAAAAAAARGH! So many new posts!

First, let me take a moment to recognize the awesomeness that was Sozin’s Comet.

*stunned and overwhelmed silence*

Now that that’s over with, there’s a lot of stuff to address. I’ll start with Eighth_Seraph’s three item list and move on from there.

1. Sandbending

In the past, I’ve refrained from taking a definite opinion on this issue other than “we don’t have enough information.” By and large, this is still true. We’ve only seen a few sandbending forms (most notably in The Library and The Desert, as well as Toph’s sand sculpture). However, I’m more open to extrapolation now that the series has actually concluded.

I like Eighth_Seraph’s idea of a 20 level prestige class. It seems as though sandbending can be a pretty committed discipline, and the sandbenders of the Si Wong Desert certainly spend their whole lives as sandbenders. However, a 20 level prestige class just seems…weird to me, especially since I would imagine it would look a lot like the Earthbender class with a few alternate abilities.

I propose the following: We alter the Earthbender class description to allow the use of sand and similar particulate matter, but at a -5 penalty. Then we create a separate list of sandbender forms that serve as “substitution forms.” Most of them would be re-worked waterbender or earthbender forms with a few unique sandbending forms worked in. In order to access this list of “substitution forms,” a character would have to take the Sandbender feat, which would probably look something like this:

Sandbender [General]
Benefit: You no longer take a -5 penalty to Earthbending checks when attempting to bend sand, dust, or loose soil. Additionally, if you take levels in the Earthbender class, you may select your bending forms from the list of Sandbender forms.
Normal: Earthbenders take a -5 penalty to Earthbending checks when attempting to bend sand, dust, or loose soil.

Then, as we deem necessary, we create Earthbender substitution levels that are similarly available to any character with the Sandbender feat. Off the top of my head, levels 4, 6, 7, 8, 12, and 19 seem like likely candidates for these substitution levels. Mostly these levels would replace the Earthbender’s Head-On Defense and climb speed with more appropriate abilities, but everything else would be pretty much the same.

2. Cooperative Bending for different disciplines

An interesting idea, and Katasi’s system seems like it could be workable. However, I agree with Eighth_Seraph that this sort of bending isn’t shown in the show at all, even for the Avatar (at least, as far as I can remember). Version 2.0 of the bending classes has rules for cooperative bending in the overview (sorta towards the bottom of the page) that make an allowance for things like cooperative mudbending with waterbenders and earthbenders (like in The Drill). I think that’s as far as we need to take this idea.

3. Master Bender?

In general, I say that if mechanics aren’t absolutely necessary, we should leave things up to flavor and description. I don’t see any reason why being a master bender requires a mechanical representation. The definition of master seems pretty fluid in the show.

4. Level Gaining Mechanic

This issue is somewhat minor, and I’m really only addressing it because I’ve been mentioned by name. I think it’s important to remember that Avatar is a TV show and the creators don’t take the needs or limits of a game system into account when writing the episodes. Sure, it seems ridiculous that Sokka gains 3 levels of Martial Artist in one afternoon, but that’s because, in the show, he’s not actually gaining levels. He’s just learning new techniques, which we then represent in the game system by gaining levels. The iconic character builds we’ve done for the website are just to illustrate how the system works and can be used to represent the characters from the show.

Also note that the iconic character builds were arbitrarily built to level 20 to ensure parity with each other. The general assumption has been that the main characters are close to level 20, but we could be wrong.

Finally, to be perfectly clear, I don’t think anyone can gain 3 levels in one day. I’m not offended or anything, I just want to be clear.

5. Burning Rush and Firebender Flight

The re-tooling of Burning Rush is interesting, but I think it will ultimately be too confusing. I’d just add a new high DC seed or Burning Rush application might be in order. Something along the lines of:

Firebender’s Flight
Base DC: 45
The firebender causes intense flames to burst from his feet, propelling him through the air. Using this seed, a firebender gains a fly speed of 50 ft with clumsy maneuverability. This seed is initiated as a move action and maintained as a swift action, for a maximum number of rounds equal to the firebender’s Wisdom modifier. A firebender can increase his maneuverability or speed by increasing the base DC by +10 for every 10 ft speed increment or every maneuverability increment increase.

6. The affect of the commet

Given the dramatic effects from the series finale, I would support increasing the bonus to +20, but not likely higher than that. +20 is a substantial boost and would allow even 1st level benders to do some pretty crazy stuff.

I hope that’s everything. Thoughts?

Mephibosheth

[yosho]

Hello all.

Ive been following the avatar d20 project since its first tread. I dislike posting but I guess now is as good a time as ever, so I hope you don't mind if I add my opinion.

1. Sand bending- I strongly disagree that this should be its own special path for the earth bender. It just doesn't seem too be significant enough. My solution is that you make it a feat.

Sand Bending
The earth bender has spent much time studying the workings of sand and other loosely packed earth.
Prerequisites: Earthbending 2 ranks
Benefits: The earth bender can use her seeds and forms in sand and loosely packed earth without penalty. She also gains an ability similar to waterbenders Melt/Freeze in that the user may convert earth to sand and vice versa.
In addition the following seeds are added to the earthbenders list of selectable seeds, though they may only be used with sand.
Ice Shards
Wave
Water whip
Tornado
Normal: An earthbender takes a -10 penalty to his bending check and a -10 ft range while manipulating sand or loosely packed earth.

Also you may want to make the waterbending study and/or airbending study lower the penalty by 5.

2. Fire bending flight- I kind of like katasi's version of it. I vote for something like that, if not simply making a new seed.

3. May I post new seeds, feats, and abilities to be reviewed?
4. I play in a non cannon setting so may I ask for opinions on additional rules that I impose for a non cannon setting?

Well thanks for your time, and this is a great system you guys have made here.

[felinoel]

2. Cooperative Bending for different disciplines

An interesting idea, and Katasi’s system seems like it could be workable. However, I agree with Eighth_Seraph that this sort of bending isn’t shown in the show at all, even for the Avatar (at least, as far as I can remember). Version 2.0 of the bending classes has rules for cooperative bending in the overview (sorta towards the bottom of the page) that make an allowance for things like cooperative mudbending with waterbenders and earthbenders (like in The Drill). I think that’s as far as we need to take this idea.

But it is shown in the show... I remember it, I think it was with Iroh and Zuko fireballing at Aang? I know it was two firebenders...

I hope that’s everything. Thoughts?

Mephibosheth

Awww you skipped my gravitybending

[AstralFire]

Meph's version is probably better than mine, as I think it out. It's a little less 'real', but it slows down play a lot less. I believe you can start hovering at good, right? That's doable under a comet/a non-canon setting with magic items.

However, it should be part of the same seed, just a new application. The basic mechanics are the same, after all.

[Katasi]

But it is shown in the show... I remember it, I think it was with Iroh and Zuko fireballing at Aang? I know it was two firebenders...

Awww you skipped my gravitybending

Actually, two firebenders wouldn't fall under my system, cause that would simply be an aid another roll by the secondary bender. My system was to allow for example water and earth nation soldiers to combine together to produce effects combining both elements.

[felinoel]

Actually, two firebenders wouldn't fall under my system, cause that would simply be an aid another roll by the secondary bender. My system was to allow for example water and earth nation soldiers to combine together to produce effects combining both elements.

Ah I see, nevermind then =b

[Mephibosheth]

1. Sand bending- I strongly disagree that this should be its own special path for the earth bender. It just doesn't seem too be significant enough. My solution is that you make it a feat.

Sand Bending
The earth bender has spent much time studying the workings of sand and other loosely packed earth.
Prerequisites: Earthbending 2 ranks
Benefits: The earth bender can use her seeds and forms in sand and loosely packed earth without penalty. She also gains an ability similar to waterbenders Melt/Freeze in that the user may convert earth to sand and vice versa.
In addition the following seeds are added to the earthbenders list of selectable seeds, though they may only be used with sand.
Ice Shards
Wave
Water whip
Tornado
Normal: An earthbender takes a -10 penalty to his bending check and a -10 ft range while manipulating sand or loosely packed earth.

Also you may want to make the waterbending study and/or airbending study lower the penalty by 5.

Welcome to the project! I'm glad you've enjoyed the content so far. This is an interesting take on sandbending. Very similar to my suggestion, but a little simpler and more bare bones. We can definitely consider it.

3. May I post new seeds, feats, and abilities to be reviewed?

Go ahead. Remember though, we're trying to stick as close to the canon of the show as possible.

4. I play in a non cannon setting so may I ask for opinions on additional rules that I impose for a non cannon setting?

I'd suggest posting them in the non-canon content thread.

But it is shown in the show... I remember it, I think it was with Iroh and Zuko fireballing at Aang? I know it was two firebenders...

We already have mechanics for this. They're in the version 2.0 classes overview on the website, towards the bottom of the page. They allow benders of the same class to cooperate as well as benders of different classes, as long as there's some substance that both can bend (like waterbenders and earthbenders combining to bend mud).

Awww you skipped my gravitybending

Sorry. I haven't gotten around to reading all the posts in all the threads yet. If you haven't noticed, there are kind of a lot of them .

[felinoel]

Sorry. I haven't gotten around to reading all the posts in all the threads yet. If you haven't noticed, there are kind of a lot of them .

Probably because of how long the forums were down

[Eighth_Seraph]

Well, Felinoel, one of the functions of your "Gravity bending" is covered under the airbender's Wind Shaping ability, in Hand of Air. And I quote.

Spoiler

Show

• Hand of Air: A technique of convenience, the airbender learns to move objects by manipulating the air pressure and wind currents around an object. So long as an object that weighs less than 5lbs is within his bending range, an airbender may move it anywhere within his bending range. For every 5 by which his Airbending check exceeds the DC, the maximum weight an airbender can manipulate with this ability increases by 5 lbs. Objects shaped so as to catch air (such as an airtight bag) may grant bonuses to this check, and objects specifically designed to be transported in this way halve the DC of Airbending checks used to move them. This object does not travel fast enough to cause damage. This may also be used to simply blow small amounts of air over and around objects, such as to perform minor acts of mischief or to cool hot food.

Granted, that's on a pretty small scale, but still. Do we have any precedent for "heavy gravity" effect from the show?

[Zak Crimsonleaf]

Not to put things off topic, but upon consideration, I think I prefer Mephibosheth's suggestion for the Sandbender. And no, I can't recall offhand any heavy gravity precedents.

[Darkkwalker]

I think that it's worth mentioning that in the Blind Bandit, when Toph is fighting off all the Earth Benders at once, after beating them, she makes all the dust settle instantly. fairly simple but still sand-ish bending.

On another note, mechanics for

Spoiler

Show

spirit bending? How'd that work? Opposed charisma checks? It seems like a force of personality and character. So seems like it'd have a heavy roleplay element to it.

[felinoel]

Well, Felinoel, one of the functions of your "Gravity bending" is covered under the airbender's Wind Shaping ability, in Hand of Air. And I quote.

Granted, that's on a pretty small scale, but still. Do we have any precedent for "heavy gravity" effect from the show?

That is a small scale, I figured what can be done small can be done larger with a higher DC, although its really only been shown to be done on a small scale...

EDIT:
Although, what I was making ends up with the same-ish results, but done in a different way...

[Mindflayer]

Are we thinking of 4e yet because I have already started a waterbender and would like to post it for comments. I don't have any powers yet but have the class done.

[felinoel]

Are we thinking of 4e yet because I have already started a waterbender and would like to post it for comments. I don't have any powers yet but have the class done.

Oh, are we upgrading to 4e? I thought we weren't

[jagadaishio]

AAAAAAAARGH! So many new posts!

First, let me take a moment to recognize the awesomeness that was Sozin’s Comet.

*stunned and overwhelmed silence*

Now that that’s over with, there’s a lot of stuff to address. I’ll start with Eighth_Seraph’s three item list and move on from there.

1. Sandbending

In the past, I’ve refrained from taking a definite opinion on this issue other than “we don’t have enough information.” By and large, this is still true. We’ve only seen a few sandbending forms (most notably in The Library and The Desert, as well as Toph’s sand sculpture). However, I’m more open to extrapolation now that the series has actually concluded.

I like Eighth_Seraph’s idea of a 20 level prestige class. It seems as though sandbending can be a pretty committed discipline, and the sandbenders of the Si Wong Desert certainly spend their whole lives as sandbenders. However, a 20 level prestige class just seems…weird to me, especially since I would imagine it would look a lot like the Earthbender class with a few alternate abilities.

I propose the following: We alter the Earthbender class description to allow the use of sand and similar particulate matter, but at a -5 penalty. Then we create a separate list of sandbender forms that serve as “substitution forms.” Most of them would be re-worked waterbender or earthbender forms with a few unique sandbending forms worked in. In order to access this list of “substitution forms,” a character would have to take the Sandbender feat, which would probably look something like this:



Then, as we deem necessary, we create Earthbender substitution levels that are similarly available to any character with the Sandbender feat. Off the top of my head, levels 4, 6, 7, 8, 12, and 19 seem like likely candidates for these substitution levels. Mostly these levels would replace the Earthbender’s Head-On Defense and climb speed with more appropriate abilities, but everything else would be pretty much the same.

2. Cooperative Bending for different disciplines

An interesting idea, and Katasi’s system seems like it could be workable. However, I agree with Eighth_Seraph that this sort of bending isn’t shown in the show at all, even for the Avatar (at least, as far as I can remember). Version 2.0 of the bending classes has rules for cooperative bending in the overview (sorta towards the bottom of the page) that make an allowance for things like cooperative mudbending with waterbenders and earthbenders (like in The Drill). I think that’s as far as we need to take this idea.

3. Master Bender?

In general, I say that if mechanics aren’t absolutely necessary, we should leave things up to flavor and description. I don’t see any reason why being a master bender requires a mechanical representation. The definition of master seems pretty fluid in the show.

4. Level Gaining Mechanic

This issue is somewhat minor, and I’m really only addressing it because I’ve been mentioned by name. I think it’s important to remember that Avatar is a TV show and the creators don’t take the needs or limits of a game system into account when writing the episodes. Sure, it seems ridiculous that Sokka gains 3 levels of Martial Artist in one afternoon, but that’s because, in the show, he’s not actually gaining levels. He’s just learning new techniques, which we then represent in the game system by gaining levels. The iconic character builds we’ve done for the website are just to illustrate how the system works and can be used to represent the characters from the show.

Also note that the iconic character builds were arbitrarily built to level 20 to ensure parity with each other. The general assumption has been that the main characters are close to level 20, but we could be wrong.

Finally, to be perfectly clear, I don’t think anyone can gain 3 levels in one day. I’m not offended or anything, I just want to be clear.

5. Burning Rush and Firebender Flight

The re-tooling of Burning Rush is interesting, but I think it will ultimately be too confusing. I’d just add a new high DC seed or Burning Rush application might be in order. Something along the lines of:



6. The affect of the commet

Given the dramatic effects from the series finale, I would support increasing the bonus to +20, but not likely higher than that. +20 is a substantial boost and would allow even 1st level benders to do some pretty crazy stuff.

I hope that’s everything. Thoughts?

Mephibosheth

I like the idea of sandbending being earthbending at -5 with the feat which removes the penalty. I think that this really fits the show as well, as in Sozin's Comet Toph says that she has been practicing her sandbending, to great effect. While this may seem like entering into a prestige class, the fact that she gains mastery over it in such a short period of time and with little enough effort that there was no training montage, it seems that it would most likely be a feat, and at very most a three level prestige class.

I agree with the idea of cooperative bending for things such as mud and clouds. Maybe earth and fire for lava. Anything else has no real in-show precedent.

I like the idea of adding Firebender Flight to Burning Rush as a high-DC option.

As for the effect of the comet, I think that there is an easier option than giving a bonus to the skill rolls. Rather than giving a bonus that would turn a novice into a master, we could simply halve the DC of all firebender forms during the comet's flight. That way novices would be brought up to a higher level of power, and masters would be elevated to near godly levels. I think that is reflected in the show, with master firebenders standing on flying orbs of flame and mooks being able to burn a swath through the earth kingdom's shoreline.

[felinoel]

I like the idea of sandbending being earthbending at -5 with the feat which removes the penalty. I think that this really fits the show as well, as in Sozin's Comet Toph says that she has been practicing her sandbending, to great effect. While this may seem like entering into a prestige class, the fact that she gains mastery over it in such a short period of time and with little enough effort that there was no training montage, it seems that it would most likely be a feat, and at very most a three level prestige class.

I agree with the idea of cooperative bending for things such as mud and clouds. Maybe earth and fire for lava. Anything else has no real in-show precedent.

I like the idea of adding Firebender Flight to Burning Rush as a high-DC option.

As for the effect of the comet, I think that there is an easier option than giving a bonus to the skill rolls. Rather than giving a bonus that would turn a novice into a master, we could simply halve the DC of all firebender forms during the comet's flight. That way novices would be brought up to a higher level of power, and masters would be elevated to near godly levels. I think that is reflected in the show, with master firebenders standing on flying orbs of flame and mooks being able to burn a swath through the earth kingdom's shoreline.

What about a full moon then?

[AstralFire]

Issues with firebending:
- There is no listed range for Fire Blast that I saw.
- Lightning allows neither a reflex save nor requires an attack roll. Though I don't recall it being normally deflectable, it should be a Reflex for No Damage. Also, I recommend just increasing the dice rather than automatically empowering.
- Fire Blast is listed as ranged, rather than ranged touch.
- Should probably be more than a simple Unarmed Damage addition for fighting in melee (this is for all benders) as they all do it when they really want to hit someone hard. Pretty much high level benders in this system will never fight closer than 30 feet. Perhaps...

Up-Close and Personal (Bending)
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike or Weapon Focus, Knowledge (Bending) 7 ranks.
Benefit: When channeling a Bending Blast through a melee attack, add your wisdom modifier to your unarmed damage and your bending check.

Something like that, maybe. There's more than enough incentive to stay away, there's not much to get up close.

For the sake of variety in firebending, some suggestions:
Heat Wave (Template):
Base DC: +10

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Show

Though a fast defeat is the usual way of firebending, sometimes lingering damage can get the job done more efficiently.

Conflagrate: Targets who catch fire from these attacks have a harder time shaking them off; the Reflex Save DC to extinguish flames is changed to (10+½Bender Level+Wis Modifier) and the residual flames deal additional damage equal to the bender's Wisdom modifier. These flames do not stack on the same target, and the bender may only set them on fire once a round.

Sweltering Blasts: Even the most agile of opponents gets worn down under a firebender's assault if they don't know when to move, as the air itself begins to heat up. A target of your sweltering blast that doesn't move out of their square on their next turn must make a Fortitude Save or become fatigued, regardless if the attack actually hit or not.

(Conflagrate has no basis, but I think it is logical. Sweltering Blasts is vaguely based on Ozai in the finale.)

Focus Fire (Template):
Base DC: +5

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Economy of motion. Everything must fall as quickly as possible.

Attacks made with this seed are extremely precise and focused, reducing collateral damage to a minimum. The bender adds his Wisdom modifier to the form's attack roll or his deflect attack roll, but the opponent doesn't catch on fire from the attack. This form has no effect on any ability which does not allow an attack roll.

(Zuko uses something like this when he carefully shoots through weapons in a season 1 episode.)

A seed that makes the fires blindingly bright would also be logical and I'll take a (bad) crack at it in a second.

[Darkkwalker]

I don't think 4e lends itself well to bending. at least as it is currently. bending wouldn't work well with the 4e skill mechanic. the powers/whatever they call them could work but it's still at will, per day, per encounter type stuff. the current system works beautifully imho. however it would be interesting to see the 4e stuff.

[FelixZ]

Issues with firebending:
- There is no listed range for Fire Blast that I saw.
- Lightning allows neither a reflex save nor requires an attack roll. Though I don't recall it being normally deflectable, it should be a Reflex for No Damage. Also, I recommend just increasing the dice rather than automatically empowering.
- It's listed as ranged, rather than ranged touch.
- Should probably be more than a simple Unarmed Damage addition for fighting in melee (this is for all benders) as they all do it when they really want to hit someone hard. Pretty much high level benders in this system will never fight closer than 30 feet. Perhaps...

- Bending ranges are all 45ft+5ft/level.
- Should be reflex for half, but I don't think you need an attack roll. If you would, then I would say a touch attack, +4 to the attack if the foe has metal armor or a large amount of metal/is soaked.
- Auto-empower does seem a bit much, added in with the damage per level (level 20=20d6=120x1.5=180 damage max)
- Adding elemental blast damage to unarmed attack?

Overall though, seems like a great job. Anyone going to be running a game offsite?

[Katasi]

I don't think 4e lends itself well to bending. at least as it is currently. bending wouldn't work well with the 4e skill mechanic. the powers/whatever they call them could work but it's still at will, per day, per encounter type stuff. the current system works beautifully imho. however it would be interesting to see the 4e stuff.

in my opinion 4e is to combat oriented.... not enough skills and non-combat stuff to be fun. I'd rather keep this as 3.5.

[AstralFire]

- Auto-empower does seem a bit much, added in with the damage per level (level 20=20d6=120x1.5=180 damage max)

Not too much, actually. Good feat selection and you can get your effective Bending for certain checks higher than the average bending roll table. By 20th level, Lightning does less damage than a full attack Firestorm that's added Blue Fire and Fire Kick seeds that you've Template Mastered along with Focused Bending on at least one of the involved seeds (4x9d8 damage). Its advantage for the canon setting is that it's undeflectable. I would keep damage about the same in effect, just simple make it 2xLeveld4, not Leveld6 then randomly empower. I can't think of a single other mechanic in the game where a base effect is empowered by default with no off switch. I would make it Reflex for None since you don't see people getting residual damage from Cold Fire, and it's actually stronger that way against people with improved evasion.

(incidentally, I meant that fire blasts are listed as ranged attacks, not RTAs, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be RTAs.)

- Adding elemental blast damage to unarmed attack?

If you mean what they currently have, my issue is why any bender would move into melee range to get AoO'd to add 1d3+½Str per melee attack rather than an RTA. If you're suggesting a solution, that would double damage output which is probably a bit much.

Overall though, seems like a great job. Anyone going to be running a game offsite?

I'm using a bender in a non-canon setting this or next week.

[dman11235]

After reading through 4E, I have decided to do very little with it. It's not vey well made, and is extremely lacking in versatility, something that this system needs to work right. So I will strongly suggest staying away from it.

[AstralFire]

After reading through 4E, I have decided to do very little with it. It's not vey well made, and is extremely lacking in versatility, something that this system needs to work right. So I will strongly suggest staying away from it.

Actually, 4E wouldn't be hard to do a bending system with at all. Most of the templates would become stances, and you'd replace bending checks with the more usual level-based effects. I was using the Book of Nine Swords to emulate firebending a while ago, and 4E shares much with that book. However, this specific system wouldn't work, no, and it's probably late in its life to start. In another year, after I have a grasp for 4E balance, I might try to begin a 4E version myself.

[brevity]

I have just made this account briefly (hence the name), as I happened upon this forum/thread in my internet travels to state my belief on sand bending and lavabending.

Sandbending: Toph could only vaguely throw sand around for two reasons: she couldn't really see where she was throwing and she was focussing much of her attention and energy on the tower. I don't really know how d20 works, but I don't think it is a particularly separate discipline.

Lavabending: Avatar Roku clearly performs this feat whilst destroying his temple. It is not just removing an obstacle in its path. He moves his hand and we see a corresponding image of three thin columns of magma rising from the main body situated below. Clearly this is not natural and controlled by him. That is all.