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    Default Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    It's been a while since I touched these classes, but in light of the GitP PrC Contest IX, I cleaned them all up and added a new one, the farspawn disciple. Let me know whatcha think of em.

    Here are the Prestige Classes:

    Dragon Disciple
    Fiendish Disciple
    Celestial Disciple
    Farspawn Disciple

    Tell me what you think!

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-02-26 at 11:38 PM.
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Dragon Disciple

    Sazzar Kess, red dragon disciple

    Dragon disciples are a rare breed of person who has learned to tap into latent dragonblood within their family lines to generate a transformative effect upon their bodies and souls. Few understand what would motivate some to do this, but to the dragon disciple, triggering this conversion within themselves is as natural as a caterpillar becoming a butterfly; being a dragon disciple is simply what they were born to be.

    Most dragon disciples are sorcerers, but the occasional bard or hexblade becomes a dragon disciple as well. These people often blend martial skills with their magical talents as well, as the draconic powers they awaken lend to a great deal of physical prowess.

    Hit Die: d12.

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
    Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.
    Feats: Draconic Heritage.
    Languages: Draconic.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation.
    Special: The player chooses a dragon variety when taking the first level in this prestige class.

    Dragon Disciple
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Natural Armor Increase +1|
    -

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Ability Boost (Str +2), claws and bite|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Breath Weapon (2d8)|
    -

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Ability Boost (Str +2), natural armor increase +2|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Blindsense 30ft|
    -

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Ability Boost (Con +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Breath Weapon (4d8), natural armor increase +3|
    -

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Ability Boost (Int +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Wings|
    -

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Blindsense 60ft, dragon apotheosis|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Skills
    The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the dragon disciple prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragon disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells per Day: When a Dragon Discple gains an even-number level, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spontaneous arcane spellcasting class (such as sorcerer or bard) he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one qualifying spellcasting class before becoming a Dragon Disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

    Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: The Dragon Disciple (the numbers represent the total increase gained to that point). As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.

    Claws and Bite (Ex): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains claw and bite attacks if he does not already have them. Use the values below or the disciple’s base claw and bite damage values, whichever are greater.

    A dragon disciple is considered proficient with these attacks. When making a full attack, a dragon disciple uses his full base attack bonus with his bite attack but takes a -5 penalty on claw attacks. The Multiattack feat reduces this penalty to only -2.

    {table=head]Size|Bite Damage|Claw Damage
    Small|1d4|1d3
    Medium|1d6|1d4
    Large|1d8|1d6[/table]

    Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: The Dragon Disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

    Breath Weapon (Su): At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon. The type and shape depend on the dragon variety whose heritage he enjoys (see below). Regardless of the ancestor, the breath weapon deals 2d8 points of damage of the appropriate energy type.

    At 7th level, the damage increases to 4d8, and when a disciple attains dragon apotheosis at 10th level it reaches its full power at 6d8. Regardless of its strength, the breath weapon can be used a number of times per day equal to his Constitution modifier, and once used there is a delay of 1d4 rounds before it can be used again. Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.

    The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier. A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.

    {table=head]Dragon Variety|Breath Weapon
    Black|Line of acid
    Blue|Line of lightning
    Green|Cone of corrosive gas (acid)
    Red|Cone of fire
    White|Cone of cold
    Brass|Line of fire
    Bronze|Line of lightning
    Copper|Line of acid
    Gold|Cone of fire
    Silver|Cone of cold[/table]

    Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.

    Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 10th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.

    Wings (Ex): At 9th level, a dragon disciple grows a set of draconic wings. He may now fly at a speed equal to his normal land speed, with average maneuverability.

    Dragon Apotheosis: At 10th level, a dragon disciple takes on the half-dragon template. His breath weapon reaches full strength (as noted above), and he gains +4 to Strength and +2 to Charisma. His natural armor bonus increases to +4, and he acquires low-light vision, 60-foot darkvision, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, and immunity to the energy type used by his breath weapon.
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-02-26 at 09:14 PM.
    Chris Bennett
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Fiendish Disciple
    Ven and Ral Lyrl, fiendish disciples


    Some sorcerers and bards attribute their arcane power to the bloodlines of fiends, as do some warlocks, instead of dragons. Of these spellcasters, something inside of them hums with the thrill of this demonic power and invites them to look deeply within themselves to examine their hearts and philosophies. These people become Fiendish Disciples, people who look to awaken the fiendish blood within their tainted veins and choose to enact a metamorphosis to fully realize their potential. This metamorphosis occurs through the Disciple's ability to utilize arcane magic, channeling this energy as the catalyst to begin his conversion from a mere mortal to something else.

    The reasons for this are many, but for most it simply comes down to the want of power or to understand their very nature. Through the transformation from being a mortal to being something otherworldly, the Fiendish Disciple gains fearsome power from the Lower Planes.
    Hit Die: d8.

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a fiendish disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Race: Cannot already be a half-fiend.
    Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks.
    Feats: Infernal Heritage (if a spontaneous arcane caster)
    Languages: Abyssal or Infernal.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation or perform invocations from a fiendish lineage.

    Fiendish Disciple
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Natural Armor Increase +1, Darkness 3/day|
    -

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Ability Boost (Str +2), claws and bite|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Darkvision 60ft, Smite Good 1/day|
    -

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Ability Boost (Dex +2), Desecrate 1/day|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Resistances 5, Unholy Blight 1/day|
    -

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Ability Boost (Con +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Immunnity to Poison, Poison 3/day|
    -

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Ability Boost (Int +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Otherworldly Movement, Contagion 1/day|
    -

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |fiendish apotheosis|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Skills
    The Fiendish Disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Use Magical Device (Cha).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the Fiendish Disciple prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fiendish Disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells per Day: When a Fiendish Discple gains an even level, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class or invocation using class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Fiendish Disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. If adding levels to an invocation using class, the Fiendish Disciple's eldritch blast increases and he gains additional invocations based on the invocation using class.

    Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st level, a Fiendish disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any) by 1. As his skin thickens, a Fiendish disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.

    Spell-like Abilities (Sp): Starting at first level, a Fiendish Disciple begins to show magical abilities based on his outsider blood. He gains the listed spell as a spell-like ability, usuable the listed amount of times per day. A Fiendish Disciple's spell like abilities' caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

    Claws and Bite (Ex): At 2nd level, a Fiendish disciple gains claw and bite attacks if he does not already have them. Use the values below or the disciple’s base claw and bite damage values, whichever are greater.

    A Fiendish Disciple is considered proficient with these attacks. When making a full attack, a Fiendish disciple uses his full base attack bonus with his bite attack but takes a -5 penalty on claw attacks. The Multiattack feat reduces this penalty to only -2.

    {table=head]Size|Bite Damage|Claw Damage
    Small|1d4|1d3
    Medium|1d6|1d4
    Large|1d8|1d6[/table]

    Ability Boost (Ex): As a Fiendish disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: The Fiendish Disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

    Smite Good (Su): Once per day the Fiendish Disciple can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a good foe.

    Resistances: At fifth level, the Fiendish Disciple's infernal natural grants him increased resilience against the elements. He gains acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance of 5. At 7th level, he gains Immunity to Poison.

    Otherworldly Movement (Su): There are many kinds of fiends in the lower planes, and your descendance from them grants you one of their otherworld modes of movement. The character must choose which method of movement suits his demonic ancestry.

    Air: Born of the glorious demons and devils who soar through their hellish skies, the Fiendish Disciple grows a pair of bat-like wings, which grant him the ability to fly with a speed equal to his land movement speed (average manueverability).

    Land: Those born of the unwinged castes of fiends, the Fiendish Disciple's body becomes infused with great athletic prowess, and his base movement rate is increased by 20ft and may always take 10 on Jump checks.

    Sea: The Fiendish Disciple's infernal lineage hails from fiends who make their lives in the acid seas and swamps of salt and sulfur. The character gains a Swim speed equal to his base movement rate +10 and becomes amphibious, able to survive equally on land or in sea. He may also always take 10 on Swim checks.

    Fiendish Apotheosis: At 10th level, a Fiendish Disciple takes on the Half-Fiend template. He gains the full strength of spell-like abilities based on his HD, and he gains +2 to Strength, +2 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, and +2 to Charisma. He also gains DR 10/magic, his natural weapons strike as magical weapons, his restistances improve to 10 and he gains Spell Resistance equal to his HD + 10 (max of 35). He does not gain the flight capabilities of this template, unless he selected the Air method of Otherworldly Movement.
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-02-26 at 09:18 PM.
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Celestial Disciple

    Sir Perregrin Taal, celestial disciple

    The Celestial Disciple is a mortal who's blood sings with the power of the divine, a blending of celestial and mortal from generations before which inspires the Disciple to awaken its dormant power. Through focus, meditation, and divine inspiration through magical ability, the Celestial Disciple enacts a powerful metamorphosis on himself and changes his very base nature.

    There are two methods that mortals have found to awaken long dormant celestial blood. The first is through an arcane heritage due to a celestial bloodline. Sorcerers and bards often find their way towards this route having developed a fascination with the divine and heavenly. The second is from divine inspiration as a divine spellcaster, whose diety's power enables the conversion from mortal to celestial being.
    Hit Die: d8.

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a celestial disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Alignment: Any good.
    Race: Cannot already be a half-celestial.
    Skills: Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks.
    Languages: Celestial.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation, or 1st level divine spells.
    Special: If the character is a spontaneous arcane spellcaster, he must also have the feat requirement of Celestial Heritage.

    Celestial Disciple
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Natural Armor Increase +1, Protection from Evil 3/day|
    -

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Ability Boost (Str +2), Daylight at will|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Darkvision 60ft, Smite Evil 1/day|
    -

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Ability Boost (Dex +2), Aid 1/day|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Resistances 5, Cure Serious Wounds 1/day|
    -

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Ability Boost (Con +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Immunity to Disease, Resist Poison, Holy Smite 1/day|
    -

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Ability Boost (Int +2)|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Wings, Dispel Evil 1/day|
    -

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |celestial apotheosis|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Skills
    The celestial Disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the Celestial Disciple prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Celestial Disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells per Day: At every even level, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an existing spellcasting class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a celestial Disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

    Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st level, a celestial disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any) by 1. As his skin thickens, a celestial disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.

    Spell-like Abilities (Sp): Starting at first level, a Celestial Disciple begins to show magical abilities based on his outsider blood. He gains the listed spell as a spell-like ability, usuable the listed amount of times per day. A Celestial Disciple's spell like abilities' caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

    Daylight (Sp): The Celestial Disciple learns to channel his blood-born power to generate daylight at will as a spell-like ability. A Celestial Disciple's spell like abilities' caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

    Ability Boost (Ex): As a celestial disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: The celestial Disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

    Smite Evil (Su): Once per day the celestial Disciple can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against an evil foe.

    Resistances: At fifth level, the Celestial Disciple's heavenly natural grants him increased resilience against the elements. He gains acid, cold, and electricity of 5. At 7th level, he gains Immunity to Disease.

    Resist Poison (Ex): As the celestial blood in the Disciple's veins grows more powerful, he gains

    Wings: At 9th level, the Celestial Disciple's heavenly nature is almost fully realized as he sprouts large, semi-luminous bird-like wings from his back. These wings enable him to fly at a flight speed equal to twice his base speed at good maneuverability.

    Celestial Apotheosis: At 10th level, a Celestial Disciple takes on the Half-Celestial template. He gains the full strength of all the spell-like abilities based on his HD from the template, and he gains +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, +4 to Wisdom, and +4 to Charisma. He also gains DR 10/magic, his natural weapons strike as magical weapons, his restistances improve to 10 and he gains Spell Resistance equal to his HD + 10 (max of 35).
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-02-26 at 09:20 PM.
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    In my opinion, there need to be two different versions of all of them: a caster version, and a noncaster version. That, or give spell-like abilities instead of increasing caster level and giving spells.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Dragon Disciple:
    I'd suggest changing up the spellcasting progression so that you lose a spellcasting level at 1st (putting it back in elsewhere isn't an issue). As-is, that's a wonderful 2-level dip class for a Sorcerer.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Well, do you think that changing to half caster progression would even it out and discourage dipping? So every odd level you get a +1 caster level.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Well, do you think that changing to half caster progression would even it out and discourage dipping? So every odd level you get a +1 caster level.

    -X
    Every odd level would just reduce it to a nice 1-level dip. To discourage dipping for full casters, the first level has to lose caster progression. Losing three caster levels is fine - it's just that one of the lost levels needs to be right at the front.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Changed caster progression for Dragon Disciple, and added Fiendish Disciple. Check em out.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    one of my problems with the dragon disciple class has always been the one-a-day breath weapon. it is pointless as a class ability at 1/day. if it were a luck ability (reroll XX dice), or something similar, once per day would be fine. but it is not--it is a combat maneuver. a combat maneuver that for some reason the eventual half-dragon can only use once per day.

    i personally don't think that it is overpowered to use it as is, multiple times a day. but for others, if for some reason they feel that a near-epic character flinging a 6d8 line of acid more than once per day is overpowered, they can always lower the damage.

    i would suggest a mechanic for a number of times a day: either the dragons' breath weapon mechanic at 1/1d4 rounds, or something akin to the kensai's surge ability, # o' times a day dependent on constitution or something.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    I say Breath Weapon 1/1d4 rounds. If it works for the Dragon Shaman, it should work for the Dragon Disciple.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Changed Dragon Disciple breath weapon to be usable a number of times equal to one's Con mod, every 1d4 rounds. Added a little fluff to Fiendish Disciple. Realized how cool a warlock / fiendish disciple could be. Screw the Acolyte of the Skin :D

    Anyhow, back to work on the Celestial Disciple.

    To those of you who were looking for a warrior variant of these classes for fightery types, I'd suggest simply removing the caster level bumps, improving the BAB to full and giving either bonus spells or no spells at all to the classes.

    -X
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Celestial Disciple is up and I fixed a few things with the Fiendish Disciple that weren't right (according to the half-fiend template) or just didn't sit with me.

    Fluff will be added to the Celestial Disciple as soon as I can write it. Critiques, ideas, thoughts, and all that are appreciated!

    -X
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    cool errant.

    i found my old kensai info, and think it would be cool to allow it (constitution mod)/day uses, but then allow a concentrate check, or a basic constitution check with (random) DC 15 if the player wants to use it an additional time per day, and a cumulative +5 to the DC every time after that. First time that character fails check, can no longer use breath weapon that day.

    or just make it 1/1d4 rounds as many times per day as you want.

    like i said, i really don't think that it is overpowered to give a half-dragon a decent breath weapon. in fact, d. disciple is the only breath weapon-using class (that i can think of off the top of my noggin) that cannot use it at least that often.

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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Okay, Celestial Disciple's fluff is in place. Now, as far as game balance issues go, do these PrC that enable someone to gain these templates balance out from what I wrote to be balanced and desirable character options? Also, are there any other templates that could possibly go through the Disciple transformation that anyone can come up with?

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2008-01-09 at 11:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    I like these, kudos. I'm not sure if there's a copyright issue with this idea, but what about a half-farspawn class, from LoM?
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    It's certainly not a copyright issue if it's only sourcing SRD material.

    You should change the spells per day text on the fiendish disciple to match the table.

    Specify whether or not you are limiting the spell progressions to arcane/invocations, or arcane/divine/invocations.

    It would be awesome if you added some variant where the dragon disciple can advance their dragon shaman breath weapon if they have one instead of gaining a separate breath weapon.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Idea: why not replace "+1 level of spellcasting class" with +"1 level of class abilities" (the only book I can remember that uses it is weapons of legacy, but I know there's at least one other). As you can imagine, it does the same thing but counts as a level of any class for abilities that follow a similarly simple progression. Takes away the issue of making non-caster PrC's, since they'll all function the same.

    Though I have no problem with just making the breath weapon every 1d4 rounds to begin with, there's a feat for it in Races of the Dragon. Basically does the exact same thing, just requiring 6HD. The net result would be the same, but I'd just give them that as a bonus feat when they get the breath weapon and state that it ignores prerequisites.

    I want to say that it should state that the DD counts as large size for the half-dragon template's wings, but the class just grants them automatically, so it doesn't matter. It just feels like the class should feel more like you're gaining the template itself rather the abilities: hence granting the normal breath weapon, and then also granting the feat to make it useful; also granting wings for large size, then adding an ability that makes them considered large size for the wings. Or you could just enlarge them, that was one of the few things that the original DD was different with: making the disciple larger. I've never understood why a half-dragon, a creature directly decended from one that can top out over 40', stays the same size.

    The other two are a pretty good trade off: you lose 1 more level of spellcasting than normal, but you get decent hit die in place of the LA. I don't agree with the celestial and fiendish (sorcerer I assume) heritage feats: they pretty much suck and you're not requiring draconic heritage for the DD (though you probably will now that it's been mentioned). Though I can see it mechanically justified, since the arcanist is gaining much more than the divine caster and thus should pay more, it just seems wrong to me.

    Edit: also, Half-Farspawn, as was stated, is from Lords of Madness, which is most definitely not in the SRD. I don't think there should be that much of a problem, but then again I don't think there should be a problem putting homebrewed templates on non-OGL monsters for examples either. But the end result is that it's very easy to get the exact stats out of the result, so as far as I know that PrC would sadly not be allowed. Ask a mod though, hopefully I'm wrong, cause I'd like to see that.

    Edit2: since you seem to be at least better than me at this, how about versions of the Fiend Blooded PrC from Heroes of Horror?
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    @ Krimm_Blackleaf:
    Thanks man! I've also been keeping track of your work and I have to say I've bookmarked quite a few of your PrC's. It's your works that got me interested in the ToB classes. I'll start working the half-farspawn one!

    @ Necromas:

    Fiendish Disciple spell text: fixed. Clarifying spell texts: fixed. As far as the dragon shaman, I don't really know enough about it to be too enamored with it, and it just seems to be warlock ala dragon from what I do know. I could take it or leave it, seeing as how the Dragon Disciple already gets a breath weapon... meh. You could always rule that it increases the dragon shaman stuff.

    @ Fizban:

    The reasons behind the limited breath weapon is so people can just either take the feat, go half-dragon paragon, etc. The other things that are in the dragon disciple are for balance issues; a 10 level PrC for a +3 LA template, they had to add a few things. They gave them blindsense and wings no matter what. It's a toss up. Thinking about it, you're right about what you're saying about the size issue... maybe I'll dump the blindsense stuff (as the template doesn't get it) and increase size at 9th level? Give them powerful build first maybe, then actually increase size (replacing powerful build) and go through apotheosis?

    The heritage feat was required in my write up actually, I didn't add it cuz of your post :P I required them because it makes sense, you pay the entry fee to get the class. Most PrCs have those. Hell, Dodge feat? Either way, I included it because it's like a catalyst for the whole process, having that bloodline. Celestial Disciples can transform due to divine powers empowering them. Should I do this for Fiendish Disciples as well? They're more associated with arcane magic, ala fiends often having arcane spell-like abilities. Celestials tend towards divine spell-like abilities. What are peoples thoughts here?

    As far as fiend blooded prc thingy? I don't know much about it, but I have the book, I'll read it and get back to you on that.

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2008-01-09 at 11:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    i second fizban's idea of making it a +1 class ability. would make it perty nifty.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    If I do remove the spellcasting angle and instead replace it with "class features", then I'd have to do a general removal of all traces of spellcasting influence, right? They way I saw it, was that the disciple's magical ability is what fueled their metamorphosis into the templated being. Doing class features, what's to stop a straight up fighter or barbarian from enter the class, losing nearly nothing, but gaining a template for essentially free? The idea for making a PrC, in my mind anyway, is to make a class that's consistently good and balanced with others, while not making it so good that it makes every PC say, "Wow, why wouldn't I take that class?" I feel that +1 class abilities could get too strong as there are base classes and such that would simply become too powerful with these PrCs if this was the case.

    Does my logic make sense in this regard, or are you all thinking I'm crazy and should change it (if that's the case, I will)?

    -X

    P.S. I'll begin work on the Farspawn Disciple today over a year later.
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-02-26 at 09:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    Farspawn Disciple
    Vorin Kye, farspawn disciple


    Some beings in the universe are born with madness in their veins, and these beings feel the call to advance this madness to the physical realm. This call in their blood causes mutations in their physical body, but this physical and psychological madness manifests a deadly power in their minds and souls. They either manifest potent psionic ability or the feel the call in their soul to a wild and chaotic sort of sorcery. Those who follow this call of madness to its completion are known as farspawn disciples, and they are a terrifying breed of adventurer as few can understand their motives.

    Most start out as sorcerers or wilders, with the occasional psion or psychic warrior. They often multiclass between more melee oriented classes, such as fighter and ranger.
    Hit Die: d8.

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a farspawn disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Alignment: Any chaotic.
    Race: Cannot already be a half-farspawn.
    Skills: Knowledge (psionics) 6 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks.
    Feats: Aberrant Blood
    Languages: Abyssal or Undercommon.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation or manifest psionic powers.

    Farspawn Disciple
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells/Powers

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Natural Armor Increase +1, Blur 3/day|
    -

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Ability Boost (Str +2), tentacles|+1 level of existing class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Blindsight 60ft, True Strike 1/day|
    -

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Ability Boost (Dex +2), Touch of Idiocy 1/day|+1 level of existing class

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Resistances 5, Stinking Cloud 1/day|
    -

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Ability Boost (Con +2)|+1 level of existing class

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Immunnity to Poison, Blink 3/day|
    -

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Ability Boost (Wis +2)|+1 level of existing class

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Change Shape, Greater Invisibility 1/day|
    -

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |aberrant apotheosis|+1 level of existing class[/table]

    Class Skills
    The farspawn disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Use Magical Device (Cha).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the farspawn disciple prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: farspawn disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells/Powers per Day: When a farspawn discple gains an even level, the character gains new spells per day or powers per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class or manifesting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting/manifesting. If a character had more than one spellcasting/manifesting class before becoming a Farspawn Disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells/powers per day.

    Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st level, a farspawn disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any) by 1. As his skin thickens, a farspawn disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.

    Spell-like Abilities (Sp): Starting at first level, a farspawn disciple begins to show magical abilities based on his far realm blood. He gains the listed spell as a spell-like ability, usuable the listed amount of times per day. A farspawn disciple's spell like abilities' caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

    Tentacles (Ex): At 2nd level, a farspawn disciple gains attacks in additional to any attacks the base creature could normally make. He Use the values below.

    A farspawn disciple without weapons uses both its tentacles when making a full attack (plus any other natural attacks of the base creature). If armed with a weapon, it uses the weapon as its primary attack and its tentacles as secondary natural attacks (–5 on the attack roll, half Strength
    bonus on damage rolls).

    {table=head]Size|Tentacle Damage|Reach with Tentacles
    Small|1d3|5ft
    Medium|1d4|5ft
    Large|1d6|10ft[/table]

    Ability Boost (Ex): As a farspawn disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: The farspawn disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

    Smite Good (Su): Once per day the farspawn disciple can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a good foe.

    Resistances: At fifth level, the farspawn disciple's infernal natural grants him increased resilience against the elements. He gains acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance of 5. At 7th level, he gains Immunity to Poison.

    Change Shape (Su): As a standard action, a farspawn disciple can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass. This ability functions as described for the change shape ability (see page 306 of the Monster Manual), except as follows:
    — The creature’s movement modes do not change.
    — The creature retains the tentacle attacks granted by this template (see Attack, above) and gains two additional tentacle attacks when making a full attack.
    — The creature becomes amorphous. It cannot be fl anked, and is not subject to extra damage from critical hits.
    — Creatures native to the Material Plane take a –1 morale penalty on attack rolls against a half-farspawn in its amorphous form.

    Aberrant Apotheosis: At 10th level, a farspawn disciple takes on the Half-Farspawn template (Lords of Madness pg 152). He gains the full strength of spell-like abilities based on his HD, and he gains +4 to Constitution, +2 to Wisdom, and +2 to Charisma. He also gains DR 10/magic, his natural weapons strike as magical weapons, his restistances improve to 10 and he gains Spell Resistance equal to his HD + 10 (max of 35).
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    Default Re: Dragon Disciple PrC and Half-Outsiders: Let's fix and fuse em!

    It's been a while since I touched these classes, but in light of the GitP PrC Contest IX, I cleaned them all up and added a new one, the farspawn disciple. Let me know whatcha think of em.

    Here are the Prestige Classes:

    Dragon Disciple
    Fiendish Disciple
    Celestial Disciple
    Farspawn Disciple

    Tell me what you think!

    -X
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