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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    chilepepper's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    ref chilepepper

    Match on hold, need to get a high ref in here to sort something out. Or I just needed to catch up. Seems all is in order.

    @Shirmish
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    From the last time you posted a stat block, your AC is 22. You take 6 damage from the beetle's AoO as you move around it. After you finish your move, the beetle chases you in and attacks, but misses. You then see Zeandros pop up out of the hay at N10.


    @Zelandros
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    When you pop up, you see Shirmish at P18 and a Celestial Giant Fire Beetle at 019 (being the most direct route to chase and attack per your last move for it.


    LoS is established between all parties. It is still Zelandros' turn.
    Last edited by chilepepper; 2008-02-14 at 01:29 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    @Players:
    Please disregard above spoilers and do not look in until I sort out something.

    @Chilepepper, Refs:
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    From Shirmish's last posted position in P18, he would not have LoS to Zel as he stood up. Are my facts wrong here?


    Continue play. Sorry for false alarm. spoilers above are correct as posted.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-02-14 at 01:38 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    @talic, refs
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    While partial cover is granted, neither opponent is being sneaky.


    Please continue.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Zelandros

    "Ack. Invisible Badgera I need you."

    Zelandros is going to cast a spell and throw a pokeball at O15, enveloping O16/17 and P16/17 in fog. Which should block LoS between us.

    Break down for refs.
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    Move Action: Already used.
    Standard Action: Cast Acid Splash at O15. Since its my thematic spell, it looks like a pokeball. Just like all my summon monster spells The fog is from my cloudy conjuration feat.
    Bluff Check: (1d20-1)[5] - I guess invisible badgers aren't that believable.
    Attack Roll: (1d20+1)[9] I'm not sure if I can actually miss on a touch attack against the ground...
    Damage: Doesn't matter
    Free Action: Drop Prone


    End of Turn
    Last edited by Mavian; 2008-02-14 at 02:13 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    @refs
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    Feel free to take a peek at post #112. My AC is 29 currently. Full defense, shield, chain shirt, +4 dex, +2 shield of faith and +3 not profane but the other one. I should not take damage unless it rolled a 20. My AC is certainly NOT 22.


    Did it roll a 20?

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    High Ref Paladin Latham

    @Bronz:
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    It did not. They are being crazy. Or just didn't look in spoilers. It didn't get you, thus you take no damage. You may continue.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Initiate Ref Talic

    Edit: Ack! Ninja'd
    @Bronz:
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    The beetle did not roll a critical threat. The AoO was a miss, due to your freakin huge AC. Disregard earlier report of your hit.


    @Mavian
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    You can indeed miss a touch attack at the ground. However, since the ground has an effective dex of 0, it has a touch AC of 5. No worries, you hit just fine. Would you actually like the sense motive check rolled by bronz, or would you prefer to forego that roll? Just the request for the roll will tell the player that it's a bluff, and, well, I don't need to explain meta to you, as I've heard several others get dubbed "Mavianesque" for their ability to pounce on rules meta... :)


    Please, continue.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-02-14 at 09:20 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Bronz, we need you to roll 1d20 for something. We'll tell you the results of whatever it is. (hah, take that metagaming!)
    Last edited by Paladin Latham; 2008-02-14 at 09:22 AM. Reason: misspelled Bronz...
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Shirmish - round 24

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    I will completely ignore the "invisible badgera" much like I did the beetle (though there is no summon for invisble creatures, but he could be bluffing and it be another beetle or whatever). In any case a summoned creature would have attacked, so I'm not worried.

    Since he stood up and cast a spell, AND is in the hay, he can't move or 5' step out of difficult terrain, so he should be in N10. Hopefully he didn't immediate magic out (though I think I would have heard something). Either way, I'm going to gamble now.

    Free: Shift
    Swift: Move from P18 to N11 and loosing shield between N10 and N11. Drop it in N11
    Standard: Spear the hay! at N10.

    attack - (1d20+4)[20] Wow, no wonder I don't melee.
    dmg - (1d8+3)[6]
    concealment - (1d100)[55] 1-50 hits (Since I'm essentially attacking an invisible opponent that I hope is there, concealment applies.


    Edit: Forgot second spoiler tag.





    Stats!
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    HP: 11
    AC: 23 (+2 Shield of Faith, +3Law, +4 Full Defense)
    Current Buffs: Prot from Evil 10/10, Shield of Faith 19/20, Travel Devotion 5/10, Law Devotion 2/10
    Current Location: N11
    Last edited by Bronz; 2008-02-14 at 09:29 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Allllllright.

    a roll - (1d20)[18]

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Guess what? He was lying! There probably isn't a such thing as an Invisible Badgera.

    He actually made a bluff check ya see...
    Last edited by Paladin Latham; 2008-02-14 at 09:33 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Ah, well my turn still stands.

    It is Zelandros' turn. Shirmish just poked N10 with his spear and missed, whether you're actually there or not.

  13. - Top - End - #133
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Beetle:
    Beetle will move and attack if he can reach.
    Attack: (1d20+3)[23]
    Damage: (2d4+2)[8]

    Zelandros:

    Move Action: Stand Up. I have cover when I start this, so I'm not sure if you get an AoO or not,
    Immediate Action: Abrupt Jaunt from N10 to L10
    Standard Action: Cast Lesser Orb of Acid.

    Attack Roll: (1d20+1)[19]
    Damage: (1d8)[7]

    Filling N10/N11 M10/M11 with fog.

    Spoiler
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    Free Action: Drop Prone in L10


    It's like Whack-a-mole.

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    HP: 7
    AC: 11
    Speed: 30
    Position: Prone in L10
    Immediate Magic: 1/4
    Spells:
    0th: 3x Acid Splash
    1st: 1x Rapid Summon Monster 1, 1x Rapid Create Trap, 1x Lesser Orb of Acid
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Go Beetle!!!!

    Crit Confirm: (1d20+3)[22]
    Damage: (2d4+2)[7]
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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Initiate Ref Talic

    Crit is not confirmed. Natural 20 does hit, however, and Shirmish takes the initial damage posted.

    Play continues with remainder of action.

    EDIT: To answer the question concerning Shirmish's possible AoO on you, according to quickened spell like abilities in the SRD, the use of them does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

    @Bronz
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    Please keep your AC in stat block correctly updated. While my calculations show you still at 23 AC, it's diff bonuses than you have (10+5 dex + 3 armor = 18. +2 Shield of faith, +3 law = 23.) There is no Full defense, as you performed an attack.


    Zel's Touch attack on Shirmish also misses, just barely.

    @refs
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    I know we've ruled that hay provides total cover. If that's the case, then the attack in post 129 is invalid. You cannot attack a foe with total cover to you. Bronz applied concealment rules. As the attack missed, there's no mechanical impact, but should we bring this to attention for future reference?


    Turn continues.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-02-14 at 05:37 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Actually we both have cover due to the hay, so no AoO's because of that.

    Mav, I don't think you could have rolled any better that round. Stupid summoned creatures and their crits.


    Shirmish:
    Swift: Trudge over to L11. Draw and hold bow in off hand.
    Attack: Attack into L10 with spear. Let's hope I do get to "whack a mole"

    attack - (1d20+4)[17]
    dmg - (1d8+4)[10]

    Again, rolling for concealment (I am assuming that attacking into the hay is much like attacking an invisible creature)

    conceal - (1d100)[24] 1-50 hits


    Stats to come later.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Post Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Initiate Ref Talic

    No hits this action.

    Edit: Not entirely sure that concealment rules apply. Hay has been previously ruled to provide cover, not concealment. Got a post requesting clarification in the waiting room now.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-02-14 at 05:45 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    I can understand cover, but I also understand concealment as well. You have to admit, spearing the hay is rather plausible. You can't spear through a rock that provides cover, or something similar though.

    I'll wait on a refs judgment.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    High Ref Paladin Latham

    Ungh. Hay. The issue with hay is whether someone has total cover. I'd say no. We should probably allow people to be able to attack hay as per attacking a square, making it total concealment rather than cover. Other issues can be explained away as difficult terrain. Thats my two cents.
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Initiate Ref Talic

    For the record, I think that sounds like the most common sense approach. Would people now standing in hay get concealment rather than cover as well?

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    High Ref Morbius

    Hum.. it makes more sense that way, I have to say that I never like the idea of the hay being used as cover
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  22. - Top - End - #142
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    When this match was started, the rules clearly stated that the hay provided cover. To change it in the middle of match is just not cool. Especially when I've based my strategy on rules that were clear in the beginning.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavian View Post
    When this match was started, the rules clearly stated that the hay provided cover. To change it in the middle of match is just not cool. Especially when I've based my strategy on rules that were clear in the beginning.
    If we are treating the hay as solid cover, from within the hay, that's fine and I'm good with that (at least for this match). However, I would like my last turn held up to be invalid and given back to me if that was the case, as my actions were based on that I could attack through the hay.

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want all my careful stratemagizing thrown out due to changing the rules
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Shirmish - round redux

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    I am still going to move to L10.

    Swift: Move to L10 (at half speed), moving silently ms - (1d20+3)[8]
    Move: Hide in the hay hide - (1d20+3)[22]
    Standard: Ready an action to attack the mole if he pops his head up again (from hiding)


    Round redone. Your go.

  26. - Top - End - #146
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    The beetle pops back into his poke-ball and vanishes.

    Zelandros

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    Full Round Action: Crawl 5 feet to M10 Normally this would provoke. But due to cover rules.


    End of Turn.

    Stats:
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    HP: 7
    AC: 11
    Speed: 30
    Position: Prone in L10
    Immediate Magic: 1/4
    Spells:
    0th: 3x Acid Splash
    1st: 1x Rapid Summon Monster 1, 1x Rapid Create Trap, 1x Lesser Orb of Acid
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  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    @Bronz:
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    No LoS.


    @Mavian:
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    No LoS. Make a listen check.


    @Refs:
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    Bronz can still be heard, but not seen (shock!). Though Mavian took 0 by not posting hide or move silently, he is still doing so better than Bronz can hear because of his negative modifiers and the fact that he didn't roll spot or listen, thus taking 0. Yay negative spot and listen!
    Last edited by Paladin Latham; 2008-02-15 at 03:03 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Shirmish - round 26

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    I will stay put and use my cover to hide still. Since I didn't move, my 22 from before stands on the hide check.
    And it's actually 24 as I am shifted and my armor only gives a -1 penalty, not -2 as I had posted.



    Standard: Ready an action to attack Zelandros if LoS is gained.



    Done.



    Stats!
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    HP: 3/11
    AC: 25 (23 touch) (+3Law, +4 Cover)
    Current Buffs: Prot from Evil 10/10, Shield of Faith 20/20, Travel Devotion 5/10, Law Devotion 2/10, Shift 2/5
    Current Location: L10 (standing in the hay)

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    Zelandros

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    Listen Check: (1d20)[1] For Paladin. Which reminds me.
    *Edit Appareantly I have hay stuck in my ears.

    Z will continue to belly crawl from M10 to N10. He will attempt to do so quietly this time (1d20+1)[14]


    End of Turn

    Stats for Refs:
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    HP: 7
    AC: 11
    Speed: 30
    Position: Prone in N10
    Immediate Magic: 1/4
    Spells:
    0th: 1x Acid Splash, 3x Acid Splash
    1st: 1x Rapid Summon Monster 1, 1x Rapid Create Trap, 1x Lesser Orb of Acid, 1x Lesser Orb of Acid.
    Last edited by Mavian; 2008-02-15 at 09:39 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Paladin Latham's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 19 Finals: Zelandros vs. Shirmish - Final Match

    @Bronz:
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    Roll 1d20, I'll tell you what happens.
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