Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Caracol's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Work in progress, give me advices!!!
    Version 2.0


    ANT BURGLAR

    "What do you mean, I did it? Did you see me?" - Sylas, human Ant Burglar

    Going inside some well guarded treasure-house, picking locks and disarming traps, looting some precious stuff and avoid being seized. Ant Burglars specialize in doing this. Their motto is: "what is small, it's also unnoticed". Ant Burglars have the ability to shrink themselves, decreasing their size enough to pass through many obstacles that their natural size wouldn't allow to, and being far difficult to be seen by hostile people. Actually, they become so small that the risk for them to be chased by roachs or rats istead... They train in basics arcane spells that can aid them during their tasks, they are not so effective in combats, but they can still be pestering if they know how to hit their opponents.
    Ant Burglars is a good choice for Wizards with a thing for stealing, Rogues with natural magic abilities or Rogue/Wizard multiclass.
    Hit Dice: d6

    Restrictions
    To become an Ant Burglar, a character must meet the following requisitions:
    Hide: 8 ranks.
    Open Lock: 8 ranks.
    Use Rope: 8 ranks.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells.

    Class Skills
    Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleigh of Hands, Spellcraft, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Use Rope.

    Skill points per level: 8+Int modifier

    {table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
    Spellcasting

    1st|+0|+1|+2|+1|reduce self|
    -

    2nd|+1|+1|+3|+1|Ant's Strength|
    +1 existing spellcasting class

    3rd|+2|+2|+3|+2|feather fall|
    -

    4th|+3|+2|+4|+2|Living Lockpick|
    +1 existing spellcasting class

    5th|+3|+3|+4|+3|shrink object|
    -

    [/table]

    Class Features

    Weapon and armor proficiency: An Ant Burglar is proficient in all simple weapon and in the light armor. He can cast his class ability spells while in light armor without penalities, but this not applies to his other class spells, if any.

    reduce self: The basic trick for this job. An Ant Burglar can cast reduce self a number of times a day equal to his Ant Burglar levels. He can do this without having armor casting penalities.

    Reduce self spell
    Spoiler
    Show

    Reduce self
    Trasmutation
    Level: Ant Burglar 1, Sor/Wiz3
    Components: V,S,M
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    Duration: 10 minutes for level
    Saving Throw: No
    Spell resistance: Yes

    This spell reduces the caster size, making him smaller up to 1/2 inch high. His weight is reduced to 1/3 ounce. The caster size is reduced to Fine. He gains +8 to his attack bonus and AC, a +16 to Hide and a +8 to Move Silenty due to his size, and also gains a +8 bonus to Dexterity and a penality of -8 to Strength and -8 to Constitution.
    He has a natural reach of 0 feet. Any other abilities, spells or special attacks (including sneak attacks) works normally. This spell reduces the caster's speed at 1/4 of his natural speed.
    All his equipment, including magic objects is reduced as well. Any reduced object dropped by the caster turns back in his original size after 10 minutes.
    This spell could become permant with a permanence spell.
    Material component: Some needle and thread.


    Ant's Strength: An Ant Burglar can lift or move object heavier than him. He can move a total weight of 10 ounces for every Ant Burglar level.

    feather fall: When your really, really, small, even a lousy table could become a mastodontic fortress. To protect himself from falling from high (in his scale) distances, an Ant Burglar can cas feather fall a number of times a day equal to his Ant Burglar levels, with the exceptions that this spell works on his Size category. He can do this without having armor casting penalities.

    Living Lockpick: An Ant Burglar can pick a lock or disarm a booby trap actually going inside it. With this ability, he can move in a lock or device, examining it and becaming aware of what he has to to to make it work. He can add his Ant Burglar level and his Size modifier to his Open Lock and Disable Device check. He does not gain bonuses from his tools (they are too small) but can uses them for their special purposes (for example, picklocking at distance). The +8 Dex bonus deriving from the reduce self spell does not apply in this case, since is in Fine size you can't really be more precise than strong.

    shrik object: To take with him the most admount of loot possible, and to make opponent gears uneffective in some cases, an Ant Burglar can cast shrik object a number of times equal to his Ant Burglar levels, with the exception that works on magical objects also and always reduce them at Fine size category. He can do this without armor casting penalities.


    I hope that this is a little better now. Please, keep comment and give me advices, about the concept, the character develop, the class features, the spell (is homebrewd)
    Last edited by Caracol; 2008-02-06 at 06:52 AM.

    Characters played:
    Koros (Nation of the Dead) < - adopt this psicopatic as your avatar!!!
    Bones (Beginner's Dungeon Crawl)

    don't look here!!!
    Spoiler
    Show


    I warned you. Now you have to go read it.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AugustNights's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    First of all, any prestige class should require at least 5 levels worth of requirements.

    Second, this class demands a higher requirement than that which is standard. Being able to shrink down to Fine at will is an incredible ability that tips the scales far in the favor of the player. I'd start by requiring at least 13 ranks in the skills, and at least the ability to cast 5th level spells.

    Follow that up by reducing the skills learned per level, 8+int is crazy high, best reserved for the PrCs focusing on skills.

    Now lets look at the abilities, yeah?

    Reduce Self: Reduce this to a few times a day, perhaps a number equal to the Ant Burglar 's level? [ The spell should be modified, to a much higher level. I would think somewhere between 5th-7th]

    Ant's Strength: This is interesting... But under powered.
    A Fine Sized character with just 6 Strength has a medium load of 2.5 lbs, or rather 40 ounces.

    Living Lock Pick: Adding Size Modifier to Lockpicking and Disable device (+8) is a little over powered, especially considering the difficulties that would come with trying to pick locks, and disable devices as that small.

    Shrink Object: Again, at will is entirely to powerful.

    Here's something to think about when making a Prestige Class or spell. Build it, and then compare it to another similar Class or Spell. See if the benefits and drawbacks equal out, that neither of the classes has an overt leg up on the other as it were.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Caracol's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Thank you so much for the reply. Now, to responde to your advices:

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    First of all, any prestige class should require at least 5 levels worth of requirements.
    I know it's usual like this, but this is specifically made to be taken at low levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Second, this class demands a higher requirement than that which is standard. Being able to shrink down to Fine at will is an incredible ability that tips the scales far in the favor of the player. I'd start by requiring at least 13 ranks in the skills, and at least the ability to cast 5th level spells.
    Same as above, too much requirements. And a Wizard would never have so much skill points, and a Rogue would never have a 5th level spell so easily. The requirements you say are almost impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Follow that up by reducing the skills learned per level, 8+int is crazy high, best reserved for the PrCs focusing on skills.
    This IS a skill focusing class. You actually need all this skills to be an effective Rogue, and you have also skills useful to be a caster. If I wanted to be a specialized thief, I would never renounce to 8+Int skill points per level. They need to be this high.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Reduce Self: Reduce this to a few times a day, perhaps a number equal to the Ant Burglar 's level? [ The spell should be modified, to a much higher level. I would think somewhere between 5th-7th]
    Limiting the casting per day makes sense, and I think I'll add it. Raising the spell level that high doesn't, since Reduce self is a slightly different version of Reduce Person (PH), wich is a 1st level spell. Take a look at it, it's almost the same, except that it works on yourself and reduces two size more. Maybe I'll make it a 2nd level spell, but not more.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Ant's Strength: This is interesting... But under powered.
    A Fine Sized character with just 6 Strength has a medium load of 2.5 lbs, or rather 40 ounces.
    You're right and this makes no sense to me. Maybe I'll raise the Strength penalities in Reduce self, or raise the maximum ounces that can be carried.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Living Lock Pick: Adding Size Modifier to Lockpicking and Disable device (+8) is a little over powered, especially considering the difficulties that would come with trying to pick locks, and disable devices as that small.
    Rember that you don't get bonuses from tools. And the idea is going inside the locks to move the gears and mechanisms with your bare hands. This is something do to because you want to make the lockpicking easier. Maybe I'll eliminate the Dex bonus deriving from the reduce self spell while using this ability, since you don't really use Dexterity in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Shrink Object: Again, at will is entirely to powerful.
    I'll reduce it to limited casts per day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Here's something to think about when making a Prestige Class or spell. Build it, and then compare it to another similar Class or Spell. See if the benefits and drawbacks equal out, that neither of the classes has an overt leg up on the other as it were.
    As I said before, I actually compared the spell while making it, and I compared the drawbacks and differences from other classes too.
    This is basically made for the Wizard/Rogue multiclass.
    As a Wizard you lose three spellcasting levels to gain skillpoints and abilities useful in stealing.
    As a Rogue you get some spell-like abilities and useful specialization for your class, giving up core class special abilities and some of your sneak attack progression.
    I think that this balances out well.

    I'll edit tomorrow, too late right now.
    Last edited by Caracol; 2008-02-05 at 08:35 PM.

    Characters played:
    Koros (Nation of the Dead) < - adopt this psicopatic as your avatar!!!
    Bones (Beginner's Dungeon Crawl)

    don't look here!!!
    Spoiler
    Show


    I warned you. Now you have to go read it.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Stycotl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    bouncing around the world
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    First of all, any prestige class should require at least 5 levels worth of requirements.
    i second this. the whole point of a prestige class is that it is hard to get into, requires *experience* and determination. off the top of my head, the lowest PrCs that i have seen, that are reasonable, were made for 5th level characters.
    my own diabolical experiments (homebrew)

    my deviantART

    my alter ego

    Campaigns
    Watchtower––Volume III (running since 2008)

    Announcer— “Your cable television is experiencing difficulties. Please do not panic. Resist the temptation to read or talk to loved ones. Do not attempt sexual relations, as years of TV radiation have left your genitals withered and useless.”

    Wiggum, checking— “Well I'll be damned.”

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Baron Corm's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Avatar by Kymme
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Minute form is an 8th level wujen spell which reduces you to Tiny or smaller size. I would not make it any lower than 8th, and I wouldn't give it to wizards/sorcerers either, but that's really your call. If you want to give it to skillmonkeys in a prestige class with high requirements, fine. I'm wondering, why is it that this PrC is specifically supposed to be available at low levels?

    Also, the ability to shrink anything to fine size (such as the entire dungeon) definitely has something wrong with it.

    You also need to note whether these abilities are spell-like or supernatural. I think making them supernatural and dropping the requirement of casting spells would make sense... this class seems to be more about thieves than wizarding.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    wadledo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Caracol View Post
    I know it's usual like this, but this is specifically made to be taken at low levels.
    If it should be taken at low levels you should try expanding it.
    Also, nearly anyone could get this at level 2.
    Same as above, too much requirements. And a Wizard would never have so much skill points, and a Rogue would never have a 5th level spell so easily. The requirements you say are almost impossible.
    The minimum level for PrC's is 5, and to do something such as this would take dedication.
    Note: I just checked, a first level Beguiler could take this class second level.
    This IS a skill focusing class. You actually need all this skills to be an effective Rogue, and you have also skills useful to be a caster. If I wanted to be a specialized thief, I would never renounce to 8+Int skill points per level. They need to be this high.
    This focuses on 2 skills.
    Two.
    Which means that it should have at most 6 skill points per level, because you youreslf said that this is for wizard/rogues, who have high Int.
    Limiting the casting per day makes sense, and I think I'll add it. Raising the spell level that high doesn't, since Reduce self is a slightly different version of Reduce Person (PH), wich is a 1st level spell. Take a look at it, it's almost the same, except that it works on yourself and reduces two size more. Maybe I'll make it a 2nd level spell, but not more.
    What would you say a spell that duplicates Enlarge person but 2 sizes greater would be worth?
    Idiots give me indigestion.
    Don't give me indigestion.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonrider View Post
    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Caracol's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ant Burglar PrC [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    If it should be taken at low levels you should try expanding it.
    I didn't wanted to make this a ten levels class. 5 levels would just be fine, since I can't think of additional abilities and you can basically take them and keep the advancement in tour base classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    The minimum level for PrC's is 5, and to do something such as this would take dedication.
    You people convinced me. I'll raise the skills prerequisites and the minimum caster level.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Note: I just checked, a first level Beguiler could take this class second level.
    I don't know what is a beguiller and I really don't care. I don't like additional core classes or pre-made PrCs, which is the reason why I try to homebrew and give you my stuff to know your opinions and suggestions and to know what it needs to be changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    This focuses on 2 skills.
    Two.
    Which means that it should have at most 6 skill points per level, because you youreslf said that this is for wizard/rogues, who have high Int.
    Not at all.
    Appraise to know what you're stealing,
    Balance, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Use rope to move in stuff that has become way larger than you,
    Concentration, Craft, Knowledge, Spellcraft to spell-based work,
    Disable Device, Open Lock, Search to spot/disarm/open stuff,
    Bluff, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Sleigh of Hands, Use Magic Device to other stealing-related tasks a Rogue should always be good at.
    That leaves like 3 skills I put in too you don't really need to boost. The skills you need to use istead are more than 20. 8 points +Int are even too few, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    What would you say a spell that duplicates Enlarge person but 2 sizes greater would be worth?
    Allright, I'll raise the spell level to 3, and give more penalities.

    Thanks to everybody to the suggestions.

    Characters played:
    Koros (Nation of the Dead) < - adopt this psicopatic as your avatar!!!
    Bones (Beginner's Dungeon Crawl)

    don't look here!!!
    Spoiler
    Show


    I warned you. Now you have to go read it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •