ravenloft-is there any escape???

[Dan_Hemmens]

I think there's some sort of fundamental rule of fantasy and science fiction that any absolute unbreakable law will be broken on a regular basis.

There is an absolutely unbreakable law of fantasy and science fiction that any absolute unbreakable law will be broken on a regular basis...

[olelia]

Surprised it hasn't come up yet in this discussion...How do you escape Ravenloft?

Pun-Pun

[G-Man]

It seems this forum has a mandatory ruling for Pun Pun being mentioned in every thread pertaining to tabletop gaming.

No. PunPun actually wouldn't work, as, there are no Gods in Ravenloft, nor can the Gods influence it. The Dark Powers grant divine spells in lieu of the Deities, but they can choose to deny a being any power or ability they want.. so, the ability to gain any ability would be without a doubt denied, or twisted.. like, he usees it for infinit strength? The muscles tear from his flesh and leave a hulking mass of muscles tissue that crushes the rest of his body..

Now then, I'll ask that this not become yet ANOTHER discussion extolling the "great almighty virtues" of Pun-Pun.

[holywhippet]

In terms of the novels, my impression of Soth's escape is that it wasn't due to him sitting around doing nothing - he did that for a long time but was very active near the end. My impression was that it was because of a competing cursed. His wife from back on Krynn had cursed him for his betrayal which turned him into a death knight. The elven priestesses who had lied to him became banshees (IIRC) and would sing to him each night about his fate.

This curse was countermanded by the curse of Soth being locked into Ravenloft. His dead wife's spirit along with that of his unborn son was pulled into Ravenloft as well in order to try and extract him. The original curse won out and Soth was returned to Krynn.

Oddly enough, judging by the later Dragonlance novels where Soth is finally killed off by Takhisis, the Dragonlance canon seems to completely ignore his trip to Ravenloft.

[Arbitrarity]

How about the mortiverse then?

Godwin's law of D&D forums: As the length of a discussion increases, the chance of Pun-pun being mentioned approaches 1.

[Leliel]

Normally, the only way to escape Ravenloft is to convince the Dark Powers to let you out (ie, being such a moral, upstanding person that they feel bad about keeping you there). As always, however, exceptions exist...

Take my BBEG for instance. You see, he did an act worthy of earning him a domain (Reaping sadistic, everlasting vengeance for his lost love), but he genuinely feels sorry for his actions, giving him the ability to perceive his link to the Mists. With a little ingenuity, a bit of patience, and a whole lot of power, he was able to use this link to essentially blast a hole in the fabric of Ravenloft. Depending on your interpretation, he was able to use the DP's confusion to escape, or they were so terrified of him blasting apart their little prison that they kicked him out. Either way, he is free, scheming, and more than a little PO-ed about having to spend time in that awful place.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Diplomancer?

Srsly though, I'd still say that a lot of the ground work in avoiding the great kobold paladin is still very much usable for any sort of escape plan.

Use of timestop for the formulation of any sort of plan (undetectable whilst in it, y'see) would be a start, probably followed by the aforementioned 'take Ravenloft hostage by starting a plan to muck it up real bad' scheme. You could use the plane's survival as a bargaining chip to start getting people out.

I'm not exactly sure how you'd do this, but threatening to end time by filling it with quintessence could work, if you're in timestop.

It's not for nothing that Vecna, the god of Batman Wizardry (he is in fact the ascended form of our very own Logic Ninja), is one of Ravenloft's most notable escapees.

Edit:Note - filling planes with quintessence is a personal favourite method of destruction. Makes sense in a thematic way, too.

[SilverClawShift]

Talking about trying to outsmart the mists is like talking about trying to destroy Cthulhu. It's nerd-culture taboo.

It's not taboo because there's no conceivable way to do it (either mechanically or fluffwise). It's taboo because they're something of a collective agreement in modern myth at large. It's a circular rule that reinforces itself: "You don't beat Cthulhu, because you just don't."

Cthulhu is Endgame given (incomprehensible) form. He's what you use when you want to use something that can't be beaten, that's what he's in reserve for.

The mists of ravenloft are similar, in that they're faceless manipulation given (a lack of) form. You simply do not know what they're doing. You don't know what they want. You don't know how they accomplish what they do. Elminster? Doesn't know. Hallaster? Doesn't know. Asmodeus? Drawin a blank. Lolth, Pelor, Corellon, Bahamut, Tiamat?.. no clue whatsoever.

AO? In the dark my friends. Way in the dark.

Cause they're the mists.

[Lupy]

The mists of ravenloft are similar, in that they're faceless manipulation given (a lack of) form. You simply do not know what they're doing. You don't know what they want. You don't know how they accomplish what they do. Elminster? Doesn't know. Hallaster? Doesn't know. Asmodeus? Drawin a blank. Lolth, Pelor, Corellon, Bahamut, Tiamat?.. no clue whatsoever.

Very, very true, but all of them together? The mists are without a doubt the most powerful thing in the multiverse... But throw a few Powerful Gods, some Epic Mages, and maybe a few Kender for flavor, and you have a group capable of smashing the mulitverse. Tearing a physical hole in the plane is an escape... But can they seal to keep in the mist? Cuz I always figured the High God created Ravenloft as a prison for the mist...

The team I had thought of:

Spoiler

Show

Raistlin
Elminster
Tahkisis
Gilean
Heironious
Tas
and PunPun
(yes, I like DL, no we don't agree with the whole "Soth went to Ravenloft" crud)

[Illiterate Scribe]

Pah. Lightweights.

Could Her Ladyship of Sigil open portals to Ravenloft? I'd suspect so, since she has authority from the World Serpent, or whatever that 'one above all' thing is.

[SilverClawShift]

And so the nerd-culture-taboo-paradox begins.

What happens when you put the lady of pain up against the mists?

The mists are the ultimate gatekeeper, but the lady of pain has all of the keys.

Interesting.

[Illiterate Scribe]

And so the nerd-culture-taboo-paradox begins.

What happens when you put the lady of pain up against the mists?

The mists are the ultimate gatekeeper, but the lady of pain has all of the keys.

Interesting.

As I said on the other thread, NERD RAAGE!

I like Lupy's idea of Ravenloft being primarily a prison for the mists. Creating an eternal prison-demiplane seems like a rather Lady of Pain-ish thing to do.

[GoC]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you can escape Ravenloft through the plane of shadow. How do we know that the mist is "the most powerful thing in the multiverse"?

[Roderick_BR]

Personally, I'd try for the Vecna route - reach epic levels and become progressively more dangerous to the plane, and ultimately the Powers themselves, and they'll get rid of you before that happens (provided you let them and don't just persist on destroying and/or cleansing the whole place out of principle).

Of course, D&D epic just starts to rewrite the rules in general, so what else would one expect?

Don't forget destroying a whole realm and become a god yourself. Maybe that's the trick? Become a god so you are kicked out, since divine spellcasters lose direct contact with their deities, some unwritten rule means that gods can't go in, and are kicked out.

[G-Man]

You can't really gain divine ranks without a patron deity, and since there are no deities in Ravenloft, its not possible. (That and you'd never get enough people to worship you as a god, ever)

However, trying to break out of the mists with your supposed "Link" as a Dark Lord isn't feasible in any realistic sense. Azalin Rex, an ancient incredibly powerful lich who has no known phylactery and has managed to tear the Core appart at least twice, The Great Upheaval, The Grand Conjunction. The only link that Dark Lord's have with their domains is the ability to sense paladins, know who crosses the borders, and cut their domain off from the outside world. Also, Timestop... Hardly think you would be able to form a plan in the few rounds it lasts. And then the Dark Power's would just read your mind and garner the information as soon as the spell ended.

And no, since Planar Travel is completely inhibited in -all- forms, trying to leave through the Shadow Plane wouldn't work.

My personal theory about Ravenloft is that it exists outside the cosmologies of anything else, but sneaks its misty tendrils into all of them to take those it wishes. Undetected, untouchable, yet able to fulfill its own whims.

[GoC]

And no, since Planar Travel is completely inhibited in -all- forms, trying to leave through the Shadow Plane wouldn't work.

Would that druid spell that turns terrain shadowy work? What about the class abilities of a planar shepard?

Aren't you allowed a very high willsave to resist mind reading? What about immunity to mind-reading effects?

[G-Man]

You remind me of one of my players...

Mm. If you read the books, you see that the Dark Powers can still read the minds of undead beings, and one of the most powerful wizards of the land, Strahd Von Zarovich. Heck, strahd even has an amulet that makes him immune to divination.

And shadowy terrain isn't technically the Plane of Shadow itself, it just resembles it (not sure if I know the exact spell you're talkinga bout though). And yes, it negates any and all, no matter what class, forms of planar travel. It even does the same for innate Planar Travel abilities, such as those of a Pit Fiend. Of course Fiends have their own "Reality Wrinkle" where they disrupt the power of a Dark Lord over their realm in a certain radius to balance it out.

[Illiterate Scribe]

WORSHIP AND PETITION THE LADY OF PAIN TO OPEN A PORTAL FOR YOU.

Strike that, bad idea.

[Citizen Joe]

WORSHIP AND PETITION THE LADY OF PAIN TO OPEN A PORTAL FOR YOU.

Strike that, bad idea.

Wouldn't that most likely result in her opening a portal IN you?

[GoC]

You remind me of one of my players...

Mm. If you read the books, you see that the Dark Powers can still read the minds of undead beings, and one of the most powerful wizards of the land, Strahd Von Zarovich. Heck, strahd even has an amulet that makes him immune to divination.

And shadowy terrain isn't technically the Plane of Shadow itself, it just resembles it (not sure if I know the exact spell you're talkinga bout though). And yes, it negates any and all, no matter what class, forms of planar travel. It even does the same for innate Planar Travel abilities, such as those of a Pit Fiend. Of course Fiends have their own "Reality Wrinkle" where they disrupt the power of a Dark Lord over their realm in a certain radius to balance it out.

The druid spell "brings part of the plane of shadow into the material plane". Would shadow evocation work?
Of the questions:
"Would that druid spell that turns terrain shadowy work? What about the class abilities of a planar shepard?

Aren't you allowed a very high willsave to resist mind reading? What about immunity to mind-reading effects?"
I'm guessing your answer to #3 was that none of the beings have so far resisted and as the powers aren't statted out we can't tell. Am I right?
Don't the mechanics for Ravenloft describe wether or not #1 and #2 work? Has there been a case of #4?

[Serpentine]

I read a very old Dragon magazine recently that described an interplanar tavern, that had something like a door into every plane. It explicitly mentioned that this includes Ravenloft, and is a potential means of escaping it. Trouble is... it tends to move around a lot, so it's rather hard to find. I think the article was Inn of the Planes or somesuch.

[Green and Red]

Two ideas:
1. couldnt you try to increase the population of your realm to extreme levels and then make them worship you to become a god? ok, something would propably interfere before you get so many people , but still.

2.Simply become powerful? I mean lets say you reach epic levels... and from there go on... At some point, either of two things will happen
1. Something stops you from getting more powerful (like azalins curse that he cant learn more magic or something)
2.You become more powerful than anything else in the multiverse... now you propably can get out.

[Terraoblivion]

Unless the mists has found a way to twist your pursuit tying you more firmly to the demiplane at least. In general i am of the belief that ways out should be special exceptions that are chosen for dramatic effect and not something hypothetically anybody could do.

[Swordguy]

I read a very old Dragon magazine recently that described an interplanar tavern, that had something like a door into every plane. It explicitly mentioned that this includes Ravenloft, and is a potential means of escaping it. Trouble is... it tends to move around a lot, so it's rather hard to find. I think the article was Inn of the Planes or somesuch.

That portal is also explicitly a one-way portal.

Ravenloft has always been quite possible to get in. You just don't get out. The sole exception to that rule is "when the DM says so". It is pure DM fiat. (Not that that's a bad thing in a horror game, in my mind.)

[Dode]

1. Summon monsters and kill them 24/7, slowly but surely XP grinding over the centuries
2. Create Epic Spell "Gate from Ravenloft"

man I don't know why all those modules were written

[Quincunx]

And so the nerd-culture-taboo-paradox begins.

What happens when you put the lady of pain up against the mists?

The mists are the ultimate gatekeeper, but the lady of pain has all of the keys.

Interesting.

Forty years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes. . .The dead rising from the graves. . .Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

Will these "Dark Powers" sit still while Aquillon's group attempts to remake the realm into a second Stepford? Tune in and find out. . .

[TomTheRat]

Theres a six module set called Hyskos'a Hexad that starts around level 1 and ends around level 12-14. In it the PCs accidentally trigger six signs fortold by a Vistani seer, and in the end all off Ravenloft gets dumped back into the Prime Material Plane.

The very last module is a game of playing Strahd against Azalin against a Greater Yulgoloth, when you're way too low level to try and kill them. If you do it right, the DM has the opportunity to let the PCs out.

I suppose if you wanted to run a segment of that you could do that to get your PCs out. Very good campaign tho.

[hamlet]

The Mists of Ravenloft were, originally, a plot device. They were designed to emulate the pulp horror movies and stories that we all know and love around Haloween time every year. "The mists rise and you find yourself in a strange and frightening place . . ."

It all depends on how you're using Ravenloft and its mists. Are you using the Ravenloft setting as your campaign world? If so, then I'll be the first to say that No, there is no escape from Ravenloft. Though you might be able to outwit the local lords and the dark powers, you'll never get out. That's the true, fundamental horror of it. You're trapped, whether you deserve it or not. In fact, somewhere deep down, even the brightest and noblest paladin does deserve it.

If you're just talking about using a module from Ravenloft as a standalone, then the Mists, or whatever device you use if any, are essentially meaningless and "escaping" them is equally meaningless. They provide atmosphere, nothing more. In fact, throwing a Ravenloft adventure into a more standard campaign every now and then adds a nice bit of flavor (currently playing in a campaign that has done just that) and gets the players on their toes, especially after they fail that first horror check.

In the end, it's up to the DM how the Mists operate, but unless you're playing a Ravenloft game specifically, I'd say that they are, essentially, ignorable.

[bosssmiley]

There is one simple way to survive (And only one) Remember kids: We dont go to ravenloft

Problem with that plan. Sometimes Ravenloft comes to you.
Yes, the Mists can pull you in at any time for no readily apparent reason. Seems they like to toy with puny mortals, be they evil or not.

"Van Richten's Guide to Liches" has a section on how and why the Mists work as they do, and Planescape's old (IIRC) "Guide to the Ethereal" had a section on Ravenloft as the dreaded Hotel California of the Ethereal. Yeah, Ravenloft rocked. It sure as heck kicked the Far Relam into a cocked hat for malign, inscrutable weirdness.

Best way to survive: hide all knowledge of Ravenloft from your DM.