101 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 91

[zeropsm]

SteveMB

Except when you starts to scream on the little black box.

And screaming things that could hurt the feelings of their beloved unroyal leaders isn't goo either.

[Freederick]

I don't see why everyone is assuming the other leaders can't hear Parson's side of the conversation. The thinkagram could just as well be directed at everyone present, rather than just at Ansom privately. It would make more sense for Parson to do it this way.

[MarvinCZ]

He's a good guy and as long you stay off political philosophy, you can work with him. Just tell him that he's got an Arkentool as well and that Stanley is an evil ****er who's losing the war, so can't be chosen of the Titans.

Right now Ansom is dropping heavily into political philosophy. His companions will probably have a few words about it, too...
About the Arkentools... Ansom has one in his possession, true, but even he knows it's not meant for him as he is not attuned to it. On the other hand Stanley is attuned to his Arkenhammer. Current successes have no say in that, other than reducing its effect on Ansom.

[factotum]

I don't see why everyone is assuming the other leaders can't hear Parson's side of the conversation. The thinkagram could just as well be directed at everyone present, rather than just at Ansom privately. It would make more sense for Parson to do it this way.

I think everyone is assuming that because that's been the case for every other Thinkagram we've seen in the strip--it's been on a strictly person-to-person basis. Also, no-one other than Ansom is "looking" at where Parson is, which they'd presumably do if they could all see him.

[SteveMB]

Right now Ansom is dropping heavily into political philosophy. His companions will probably have a few words about it, too...

If the war was sold to them based on Ansom's public "I just want to end a great evil" rationale, they're going to be a bit if not downright by this display of his private reasons.

The gun was hung over the mantlepiece way back in Ansom's speech at the big war council:

"In a few turns, we will have eliminated Stanley the Plaid from the face of Erfworld. I realize that an alliance this extensive is a hardship to all of our sides, but it can't be helped. It will be worth it, to end him." (emphasis added)

Ah, but is it worth it to salve Ansom's personal issues...?

[GKBeetle]

Best Erfworld ever. Man, this one rocked so hard. Everything was perfect. Funny as hell and it showed more of Parson being BA. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[zeropsm]

Ah, but is it worth it to salve Ansom's personal issues...?

"What are we risking our ass for? the end of an evil being?or a young prince's ego?"

Looks like he planned to plant this on the coalition leaders.and did effortlessy...in one turn.

Lucky shot!

[jtheory]

Though goading your opponent is a good move, especially when traps are set, it's effect will be limited. Prince Ansom absolutely believes in his divine right but his best friend is not royalty, handles criticism that his campaign is driven by monarchist policy, leads a council of war with warlords of other nations and he's not above having sex with a mercenary.

The royalty thing is more important to Ansom than you're saying, I think; first of all, his best friend *is* a royal (a count), and has pointed out that the main reason for the entire campaign seems to be to knock a non-royal out of power:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0034.html

The relationship with Jillian is also based on his *belief* (even before he knows for sure) that she's also a royal; he has the hots for her, but it's "eating him alive" that he doesn't know for sure.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0089.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0090.html

And once he does know, it's all he can think about:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0092.html

It's pretty deep-seated. The conversations where Vinny tries to, well, protect him from himself don't get very far; Vinny backs off.

I'll agree anyway about unknown results -- but Parson has managed to hit a very sensitive nerve in both Ansom and the rest of the party.

[kreszantas]

Well I am not sure if this has been discussed yet. Parson is playing with Stanley at the same time, Erfworld 20 in that Parson can help Stanley achieve this higher calling by having Ansom give up the pliers.

This is a strong indication that things are really now beginning with the prior 90 pages and 10 klogs are nothing more than preface to set up this one page.

In #20 Parson declared that Stanley's position is higher by calling him a tool "another mind game" and back then it was discussed that Parson did this to deflect his own weaknesses by focusing on praising the others strength even though it was in our world a huge insult.

Ansom has no idea about where/how Lord Hamster came to be, and did refer to him as a nothing, with his title, declaring that Parson is nothing. That will not set well with all the rest of the "title holding leaders" They have to follow the orders of their leader, not actually Ansom.

[slayerx]

Though goading your opponent is a good move, especially when traps are set, it's effect will be limited. Prince Ansom absolutely believes in his divine right but his best friend is not royalty, handles criticism that his campaign is driven by monarchist policy, leads a council of war with warlords of other nations and he's not above having sex with a mercenary. He's a good guy and as long you stay off political philosophy, you can work with him. Just tell him that he's got an Arkentool as well and that Stanley is an evil ****er who's losing the war, so can't be chosen of the Titans. A breakup of the alliance seems unlikely.

Ansom is still likely to do something rash, which helps Parson but Parson needs a lot more than that. Ansom has lost 40% of his siege engines but he's still got massive, numerical strength. Parson can't win against that without his battlefield overview and powerful, flying dragons to pick and win the fights on his terms.

Parson is going down fighting but I think he's doomed.

Vinnie is a royal... the mercanary that he sleeps with is one that he has for a long time believed was a royal... and Ansom has just announced to everyone else that he thinks Royal's are better than commoners; Ansom has just shown how high and mighty he feels... and the problem being is that most of his warlords and allies are non-royals; and he just insulted and belittled them... and the arkentool does't help him, Since Parson can counter with the fact that the hammer is atuned to Stanely but not attuned to Ansom... in fact, if Charlie is attuned to the dish, Parson could point out how out of the 3 tools that he knows of, 2 are attuned to non-royals and one is in the hand of royal, but not attuned... kinda serves his "royalty is obsolete" statement

So yes, Parson has definatly succeeded in pissing off Ansom... and considering Ansom is the chief warlord and runs the shots, his orders override the other warlords in the movements they make... if he insists on a charge, they will charge... and if they don't; then its a sign that they are seriously reconsidering their decision to join the alliance under jetstone.

Ansom next move may determine the fate of the alliance... if he acts too rashly, doesn't listen to his allies suggestions and makes a mistake or falls into a trap; then a number of the allies may want to break off their alliance with him... if the alliance breaks apart, then GK's future looks all the more brighter... frankly, i'm guessing the marbits and the elves may be the first to go

[slayerx]

What I still don't understand is why they need pursue Gobwin Knob instead of going after Stanley, who is the main target and reason the coalition is joined together. While Ansom may have alienated his listeners, they are still joined against Stanley not joined for Ansom. Since Parson lacks much offensive at this point, they need not focus on Gobwin Knob, especially since (in their view) Parson does not claim himself to be an heir. If Stanley is eliminated, that ends the threat.

Well because GK is still a threat and its the only thing they can attack... Jillian's attack on Stanely requires flying units with no fewer than 26+ move... the rest of the alliance forces would only slow her down and would have no chance of catching up to Stanely and he will certainly get to Faq... Faq has very good natural defences and attackign Stanely there could be even harder than attacking him at GK; especially if he is given enough time to rebuild and put together a small army... and if Jillian's attack fails, then GK will remain a threat and can produce more units... While they lay seige to Faq, GK would be rebuilding it's forces; If faq is destoryed but Stanely escapes, then the alliance would be back where they started, except now GK has had a few dozen turns to rebuild it's army...

So ya, taking down GK is still a priority since they can't be sure Jillian will succeed and that if they leave Gk alone, it will be able to rebuild it's forces... essentially, going after Stanely alone would be putting all of your eggs in one basket

[Prince_Rohan]

This is nothing more, and nothing less then expected from a master strategist:

"If your enemy is secure, prepare for attack. If superior, evade him. If shows a short temper, irritate him. Pretend weakness, so he becomes arrogant...If his forces unite, seperate them.” - Sun Tzu, Art of War: Laying Plans

And the quote everyone knows...

"Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought.” - Sun Tzu

Parson was chosen well.


Great story.

[lamguin]

What I still don't understand is why they need pursue Gobwin Knob instead of going after Stanley, who is the main target and reason the coalition is joined together. While Ansom may have alienated his listeners, they are still joined against Stanley not joined for Ansom. Since Parson lacks much offensive at this point, they need not focus on Gobwin Knob, especially since (in their view) Parson does not claim himself to be an heir. If Stanley is eliminated, that ends the threat.

Reason 1: GK has quite a few forces. The dwagons weren't the only power there. It would be idiotic, tactically, to leave a powerful foe with a highly defensible position to fall back on behind you as you chase off after some dude with a high move. Parson would rip their slower stacks to shreds.

Reason 2: Jillian may not be willing to share the location of FAQ with the entire alliance. She told Ansom, and she'd likely tell Vinnie. I doubt her trust would go much further than that.

Reason 3: This one's tied to reason 1. GK is still under Stanley's power. The units are his, the income is his. Just like the alliance destroyed or conquered each of Stanley's other cities, him going to FAQ only delays the inevitable, at least in Ansom's mind. So, knock out GK, then take as much as he needs to go destroy FAQ. Since most of Stanley's forces are still in GK, FAQ should fall quickly. Even with Dwagons.

Bonus Reason: If FAQ gets taken last, Ansom can present the newly freed city to Jillian as a gift.

[ralphmerridew]

Though goading your opponent is a good move, especially when traps are set, it's effect will be limited. Prince Ansom absolutely believes in his divine right but his best friend is not royalty, handles criticism that his campaign is driven by monarchist policy, leads a council of war with warlords of other nations and he's not above having sex with a mercenary. He's a good guy and as long you stay off political philosophy, you can work with him. Just tell him that he's got an Arkentool as well and that Stanley is an evil ****er who's losing the war, so can't be chosen of the Titans. A breakup of the alliance seems unlikely.

Ansom is still likely to do something rash, which helps Parson but Parson needs a lot more than that. Ansom has lost 40% of his siege engines but he's still got massive, numerical strength. Parson can't win against that without his battlefield overview and powerful, flying dragons to pick and win the fights on his terms.

Parson is going down fighting but I think he's doomed.

Look at http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0063.html and http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0068.html . Would they be so automatic about doing so if they had seen this shortly beforehand?

And while Vinnie isn't royalty, he is a noble.

[Taross]

I've been lurking and reading the comic for a while now, and I'm REALLY starting to get antsy to see what's going to happen next now.
In my opinion, Parson just made the best move he could've made in the entire conflict. If Ansom's not going to go absolutely insane over what's been said, he's going to need a few rounds at least on damage-control over his own ranks regarding morale.

It's also quite possible that those troops that don't directly 'belong' to him will refuse to listen to Ansom after all that.

[SteveMB]

Vinnie is a royal...

Strictly speaking, Vinny is a noble, not a royal (i.e. not of royal rank, but still respectable enough to be an acceptable ruler, per the conversation about Ansom's personal motives).

the mercanary that he sleeps with is one that he has for a long time believed was a royal...

There's no reason to believe that Ansom had any idea that Jillian might be a royal prior to her comment about "...the kingdom he cost me..." Note that he addresses her as "Commander" (as usual) and then corrects himself to "Princess" (now that he knows she is entitled to that title).

and Ansom has just announced to everyone else that he thinks Royal's are better than commoners; Ansom has just shown how high and mighty he feels... and the problem being is that most of his warlords and allies are non-royals; and he just insulted and belittled them...

True; that rant certainly didn't help his standing with his allies (if nothing else, flying off the handle isn't exactly a mark of sterling leadership). Even commoners who fully accept the worldview that nobles and royals are superior generally expect them to show some grace and dignity about it.

Ansom next move may determine the fate of the alliance... if he acts too rashly, doesn't listen to his allies suggestions and makes a mistake or falls into a trap; then a number of the allies may want to break off their alliance with him...

I can picture a downward spiral: anger impels him to do something stupid, his allies try to talk sense into him, he refuses to listen, his allies grumble that he's disrespecting them because of their lower rank, Ansom reacts to this new prodding at his sore spot....

Reason 2: Jillian may not be willing to share the location of FAQ with the entire alliance. She told Ansom, and she'd likely tell Vinnie. I doubt her trust would go much further than that.

It doesn't even go that far: "Look, I'll trust you with this information. But not Doombats, not Charlie's Archons, nobody else." (emphasis added)

[fendrin]

Hmm...

Just trying to figure out what happens next. this entire post should be treated as conjecture, albeit based on the strip.

Ansom, trying to to prove his ideology correct, must take a swift and decisive action, and win. Further, he must act on his own ideas in order to claim his superiority. In particular, he must avidly refuse the advice of non-royals.

The first panel sets us up for what is next: Webinar (a non-royal) is objecting to Ansom's plan. Thus Ansom will feel compelled to act upon his plan, despite the objections (not that Webinar's objection is a good one anyway).

I anticipate that Ansom sends the bulk of his forces through the tunnels, which Parson will have Sizemore collapse (it may destroy GK, but what has he really got to lose? If Ansom wins he (it seems) he will die anyway).

The other leaders, seeing Ansom 'foolishly' send thousands of marbits, elves, and others to their deaths, will reconsider the alliance.

Alternatively, (some of) the other leaders may object to the tunnel plan and force Ansom to go that route with just his own units, and maybe some of the more forgiving (or desperate) factions.

We know that Part one is going to be coming to a close soon (I think... wasn't it said that the original plan was 100 pages, then some changes were made to accommodate serialized web publishing? So that would be 9 more pages, give or take), so I think it is fair to say that something decisive will happen soon, followed by a denouement. Given that Erfworld is a comedy, not a tragedy, I think it is safe to say that one way or another, Parson defeats Ansom. Ansom may survive, Parson may die, but the victory will clearly be Parson's.

Using Freytag's pyramid, I think we can split up what we have seen so far into the following categories:
Exposition: The intro though Parson's erfworld education.
Rising Action: The release of Jillian through the dwagon ring debacle.
The Climax: Stanley leaves through Parson's thinkagram with Ansom (this strip).
The Falling Action: Parson defeats Ansom, and ?
Denouement: ?

[Twisted Otaku]

But how did Parson know Ansom wouldn't just take the call in private?

Probably because as soon as Parson told him who and where he was, Ansom figured he was calling in to work out a surrender. Of course Ansom would want everybody to see that, a flawless victory with now casualties and a new city. But when Parson started making the royalty remarks... well... pride goeth before the fall.

[zet]

When I read that strip (really one I like the best (of a couple in a row even!), I am totally hooked what will happen next, can't wait till you put it online!), I asked myself if Parson had not revealed too much about himself - now they might be warned.
Ansom knows by now for sure that it is not Stanley who is making the moves, and now he knows who is responsible for all of that trouble. Maybe some allies are turning backs on him due to his outbreak, but maybe Vinnie can make Ansom to rethink his strategy... and maybe, they will not engage through the tunnels, which seems to be what parson wants them to do...
Of course, maybe Ansom goes frenzy now and pushes the attack harder than he shouldn't, leaving behind even more allies, but wouldn't it be too easy then? I think Vinnie has an important role to play now - either he can make Ansom come to reason or he fails and Parson gets what he wants: Splitting the alliance and forcing Ansom to do strategic mistakes.

[lamguin]

It doesn't even go that far: "Look, I'll trust you with this information. But not Doombats, not Charlie's Archons, nobody else." (emphasis added)

I felt that was referring more to the story itself, rather than the specific location.

Her mentioning Vinnie first, to me, is her saying to Ansom that she trusts Vinnie above pretty much anyone else in the alliance, but she refuses to tell even him. The Archons as well, but that's because they're paid for, and Charlie has a reputation.

[Rumex]

Thanks.
So, in college (or what, high school?), are classes always identified by numbers?

Sorry for the OT.

College.

To get an idea, in High School, English classes are usually labeled thusly (on official documents, anyway): English 1, English 2, English 3, or, if there are multiple levels of the courses, English 10, English 20, etc.

In college, it would go English 101, English 102, English 201, etc.

Classes that start with '1' implies 'first-year' level courses. The numbers after that indicates where on the curriculum it falls. 101 would be first year, first semester, 102 would be first year, second semester, 103 would be an elective course that's usually taken by first year students, and so on. Which means that the logical next step from a 102 program can be a 201 program. (First year, second semester, to second year, first semester, basic class.)

[Tom90deg]

Hmm...I think I'll toss in my two cents in here as well.

First, we know that Jillian is not that happy about being a Royal. She's happy just killing things for fun and profit. She didn't even tell Vinnie, probably the third highest ranking person, and, seemingly, a nice guy.

Second, we know that Ansom has Royality on the brain. He considers himself better for just that reason, and saying that around a bunch of non-royals is reaaaly going to hurt morale.

So, here's how I see things possibly going. Jillian is going to step in and say something about how "Just because you're a royal dos'nt mean you're any better than anyone else." To which ansom will reply in anger and confusion, "What are you talking about, YOU'RE a roy...oops..." And that will piss off Jillian to no end.

Remember back when this was sent. She says she's going to fight for two reasons, the same reasons as he had. Because she hates Stanley, and she loves Ansom. Ansom seems to love just himself, and I really wonder what would of happened if Jillian turned out NOT to be a royal. Something tells me she would have gotten the "Lets just be friends" talk.

If Ansom is not VERY careful, things are going to go south very very fast. Chances are, things already are. I don't think Ansom has the charasmia to pull off fixing this.

[SteveMB]

If Ansom is not VERY careful, things are going to go south very very fast. Chances are, things already are.

I'm just trying to imagine Ansom's response to Parson's smirking declaration that "Stanley is your superior." I'm picturing a tirade that makes his speech in panel 8 look like a model of reason and humility.

[The Old Hack]

If Ansom is not VERY careful, things are going to go south very very fast. Chances are, things already are. I don't think Ansom has the charasmia to pull off fixing this.

The charisma? Barely possible, he is good at talking people around. The self-control? In all honesty...

I'm just trying to imagine Ansom's response to Parson's smirking declaration that "Stanley is your superior." I'm picturing a tirade that makes his speech in panel 8 look like a model of reason and humility.

...I find SteveMB's mental image far more likely to come true.

I have also thought of another angle possible from Parson's current ploy. He might issue some sort of challenge to Ansom to prove his alleged superiority, leading him into risking his own person and allowing Parson another shot at the Arkenpliers. It has almost worked before; this time, I doubt Vinnie will be able to talk Ansom down.

[shakes019]

I imagine that Parson is attempting to goad Ansom into blaspheming against the Titans. In using the Arkentools attunement to imply that the will of the Titans does not support the divine right of royalty to rule, he forces Ansom to respond. Fortunately for Parson, Ansom is too proud to take the most effective argument - to oppose the basic assumption that attunement to the Arkentools is related to the will of the Titans. Because he is unwilling to dwell on the fact that he's not attuned to it.

Instead, he can be goaded into arguing the point, and perhaps claiming that if the Titans are attuning their Tools to commoners, then something is wrong with the Titans.

Then the coalition has a problem.

[warmachine]

One thing must never be forgotten is that politicians, officers and diplomats learn to work with people they don't like or they get nowhere in their profession. If there's a common goal or task, people can work together. This is also known as Real Politick. In this case, the goal is to destroy Stanley the Plaid (as they know him). They've worked together well so far and are close to completion of the goal. Only the really unpragmatic would quit now because the war leader is even more of a sanctimonious popinjay than they thought.

Also, grunts learn to take orders from officers they don't like or they don't remain in the army for long. Indeed, grunts typically despise officers in general. Finding out the war leader thinks he's superior to the commoners is par for the course. At least this war leader gets his hands dirty and fights.

Still, His Highness, Prince Ansom, is liable to do something rash and get some troops killed. Unless he has a string of stupid mistakes, he'll keep his position. Stanley isn't in Gobwin Knob but the alliance knows he's running and where he is. They aren't going to stop now just because Ansom has a temper.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I don't see why everyone is assuming the other leaders can't hear Parson's side of the conversation. The thinkagram could just as well be directed at everyone present, rather than just at Ansom privately. It would make more sense for Parson to do it this way.

Three reasons.

First, Maggie was already exhausted and told Parson that she could only do at most one more thinkagram that turn. We can safely assume that a conference 'gram is more tiring than a one-on-one, so it's unlikely that Parson would further jeopardize the call by bringing more people into it.

Second, when the call first came in, Ansom was the only one who reacted. While Webinar was the only one we could actually see at the moment of arrival (and he did not react), the other leaders should have reacted similarly if they had been receiving it, and I would expect to have been shown that they reacted, since it is a significant point.

Third, when we do see everyone, they're all (except Vinnie) looking at Ansom, not at wherever their imagined projections of Parson would be.

So while it could conceivably have been sent to all, there's plenty of reason to believe it wasn't.

Edit: Add a fourth reason: In all the frames showing Parson's location, only Ansom's projection is visible.

[werewolfjay]

many parts of the coalation might leave Ansom due to his lower stature rant if you look up the coalation on page 86 most of the coalation does not include royaltie the only two that differ would be the barbarians, the forces of transylvito, and Charlescomm which might stay if Vinne and Jillian(who lead them, they dont have to worry about charle tho) decide to stay leaving the three royal forces under numbered for the assult (i like EVIL)

the worst effect the taunting and rant can do is cause mass fighting in the coalation between the royal and non-royal forces and there are mulitiple effects that might happen other than the coalation breaking up that have been included in other post(im too lazy to write them down )

[pasko77]

College.

To get an idea, in High School, English classes are usually labeled thusly (on official documents, anyway): English 1, English 2, English 3, or, if there are multiple levels of the courses, English 10, English 20, etc.

In college, it would go English 101, English 102, English 201, etc.

Classes that start with '1' implies 'first-year' level courses. The numbers after that indicates where on the curriculum it falls. 101 would be first year, first semester, 102 would be first year, second semester, 103 would be an elective course that's usually taken by first year students, and so on. Which means that the logical next step from a 102 program can be a 201 program. (First year, second semester, to second year, first semester, basic class.)

Crystal clear.
Thanks.

[fendrin]

...I really wonder what would of happened if Jillian turned out NOT to be a royal. Something tells me she would have gotten the "Lets just be friends" talk.

Unlikely. Remember that Ansom propositioned Jillian long before she told Ansom she was a princess. besides, history is full of examples of royals fooling around with(and sometimes even marrying!) commoners or other non-royals.

This is especially true of royal men and non-royal women.