101 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 91

[slb]

Question from a non English-speaker: What's the meaning of Ansom saying "Bide" in the first panel ?

[SteveMB]

Deciding on his own steamrolled tactics could easily negate most of Parson's advantages. There are strategies on how to deal with cleverness when you have overwhelming superiority. As in: breaking off all communications with enemy to avoid subversion, mixing up your forces or commanders to avoid subversion from within and claims of racism, steamrolling in one way to avoid PR losses elsewhere, just attacking everywhere like rabid so everyone is doing their part and to maximize enemy losses...

Ansom 'ransom' should really put on blindfolds and 'duh duh'/slam his brow into the walls with his skull until it breaks. He can afford to think simplistically like Grant did. All the Union generals used to fear Lee until Grant came along and told them not to and just hold their lines and do their jobs responsibly, thus letting numbers come to bear over tactics.

Ansom's original plan was to pound away at the walls from all sides until they broke somewhere, and pour in through the breach. Losing half of his siege units may force him to modify that plan, but probably wouldn't defeat it altogether.

However, Ansom is now considering making the main attack through the tunnels. He remarked "Our topside attack should, perhaps, now become the feint." and Webinar's argument that convention dictates securing the city walls first only makes sense as a response to Ansom describing a plan that does not do so.

Also, note that Ansom is described as a leader who "tries to conserve and protect the units under his command". The fact that he was initially planning a brute-force assault on the walls might mean that (in Erfworld combat mechanics) such an assault with his overwhelming advantage in forces would minimize the butcher's bill. However, if losing half his siege units makes a wall assault more costly, and the tunnels look easier than anticipated, he might very well take that route for his main assault -- especially if he thinks he's found a large enemy force with unguarded approach routes.

Question from a non English-speaker: What's the meaning of Ansom saying "Bide" in the first panel ?

It's a somewhat archaic word meaning "wait", "hold on", or in some contexts "endure". It survives in the expression "bide (my/his/her) time", but has generally fallen out of usage otherwise.

[Mr. Scaly]

Deciding on his own steamrolled tactics could easily negate most of Parson's advantages. There are strategies on how to deal with cleverness when you have overwhelming superiority. As in: breaking off all communications with enemy to avoid subversion, mixing up your forces or commanders to avoid subversion from within and claims of racism, steamrolling in one way to avoid PR losses elsewhere, just attacking everywhere like rabid so everyone is doing their part and to maximize enemy losses...

You know that and we know that. Does Ansom? Considering that he just got baited by a random fat man he'd never met before I have to say that my opinion of him as a military leader just took a hit.

[QUOTE/]Ansom 'ransom' should really put on blindfolds and 'duh duh'/slam his brow into the walls with his skull until it breaks. He can afford to think simplistically like Grant did. All the Union generals used to fear Lee until Grant came along and told them not to and just hold their lines and do their jobs responsibly, thus letting numbers come to bear over tactics.[/QUOTE]

In the immortal words of Guybrush Threepwood:

"Yeah. Sure. I'll break this impregnable glass wall by banging my head on it! That will sure mess up the carpet..."

In all seriousness though, sometimes sheer aggression just does not work. Parson has the best defensive position around, and though he's seriously outnumbered by about ten to one there's all kinds of examples in fantasy and history where a small force of men hold off a much larger force.

[hewhosaysfish]

Question from a non English-speaker: What's the meaning of Ansom saying "Bide" in the first panel ?

"Wait", basically.

bide...
(Archaic)
...
3. to dwell; abide; wait; remain.
—Idiom
4. bide one's time, to wait for a favorable opportunity: He wanted to ask for a raise, but bided his time.
[/url]

[Mr. Wonderful]

I don't think Stanley has exited the stage yet. He and Parson may well be reunited in the future.

Let's assume that Stanley conquers FAQ. If I understand the rules correctly, he pretty much needs a city. Not that he'd get disbanded if GK fell, since we know that didn't happen with Jillian. But his personal unpopularity - not to mention his ego - makes it unlikely that he could serve someone else for favor or money.

So there he is waiting for news of GK's inevitable fall. Except, it doesn't. He waits some more. GK continues to exist, and who knows, maybe even grow.

Curious, he contacts Parson and learns what went on. Now if you read strip 101 from Stanley's perspective, its very very flattering. We know that Parson is using Stanley's megalomania as a tool, both for propaganda and to piss off Ansom. But Stanley could only be very happy to see his Warlord - who he threatened to kill, remember - boldly asserting the Tool's divine authority even though he's nowhere near.

The cool thing about this comic is how we get to play along. You've got a lot of clever people spending way too much time analyzing what's going on, and yet we all get surprised from time to time.

[hajo]

Am I the only one who thinks Parson just made all that up at the moment?

Parson already had "divide and conquer" in mind, several turns ago.
When he only had one more thinkagram for this turn, it 'just' got concentrated into the one epic encounter we are seeing now, instead of several -perhaps boring- calls to all the other leaders.

That its just a bit of verbal sparring before he really gets to his crowning moment of awesomeness?

Sure, the main action (battlewise) is still to come - at GK and with Stanley

[Calemyr]

Perhaps it should be noted that the (presumably slower moving) Marbits were escorting and manning the seige weapons during the Dwagon Donut attack, and it was a Marbit squad that got brutally taken out by Sizemore. Add to the fact that they have no known royals (they aren't even a legitimate Side), I think this is quickly adding up to the Marbits being among the first to give Ansom the middle... wait, do Marbits even have fingers? You'd think so... Er, anyway, the Marbits seem to be Ansom's most useable units: able diggers, good axemen, hard workers, hefty numbers. If they feel too heavily put upon by a man they now know doesn't respect them...

[slayerx]

Perhaps it should be noted that the (presumably slower moving) Marbits were escorting and manning the seige weapons during the Dwagon Donut attack, and it was a Marbit squad that got brutally taken out by Sizemore. Add to the fact that they have no known royals (they aren't even a legitimate Side), I think this is quickly adding up to the Marbits being among the first to give Ansom the middle... wait, do Marbits even have fingers? You'd think so... Er, anyway, the Marbits seem to be Ansom's most useable units: able diggers, good axemen, hard workers, hefty numbers. If they feel too heavily put upon by a man they now know doesn't respect them...

Ya, if the alliance does start to fall apart then i think it's safe to say that it's the sides without royals that will go first... so, out of all of the alliance sides First the Marbits than the Elves; those two groups make up about 1/3rd of the alliance's total troops, and considering how often we've seen elves and marbits in action, probably a rather significant third at that... SofaKing and Unaroyal sound like they probably have royals from their names alone; though the other two sides Foxmund and Hobbittm may be sides without royals... or they could only have nobles which could put them a step above commoners but a step below royals and thus still be offended by Ansom's statement; assuming ofcourse that nobles ARE a step below royals and they are not all part of the same group

[TheWombat]

I doubt at all that the coalition will break or split. There will be hidden bitterness for a while at least. But the idea that the coalition will split due to one outburst when Vinnie is there to diffuse the situation. The coalition will be strained but not broken.

[Doran]

Question from a non English-speaker: What's the meaning of Ansom saying "Bide" in the first panel ?

It means he's going to do nothing for the next two turns, and then attack with twice the damage sustained. It'll be super effective!

[slayerx]

I doubt at all that the coalition will break or split. There will be hidden bitterness for a while at least. But the idea that the coalition will split due to one outburst when Vinnie is there to diffuse the situation. The coalition will be strained but not broken.

No the coalition will not break due to one statement, but that bitterness can go a long way in a long run... Parson has planted the seeds of anger and resentment amongst their forces... The next few actions, be it Parson's deliberate actions, or Ansom's mistakes, could be all it takes to to make the seed grow and bloom into the forces falling apart...

for instance... when you think about it, Marbits and the elves are the ones without royals and yet that have been taking the most damage recently... The Marbits role in the battle was to be a distraction, and they were the ones guarding the seige when it was hit by the dwagons... we also so that it was their forces that charged ahead an croaked Stanely's last living warlord... and there's a good chance the marbits may be the ones told to lead the tunnel offensive... Elves on the other hand, were told that they would be the first one's to attack GK when the breach was opened, being placed on the front lines; the elves also lost quite a few troops when they had to fight those three dwagons... Combined with Ansom's latest Statement, the Marbits and elves may start thinking that, because they are not lead by royals, Ansom has been treating them like cannon fodder; sending them to the frontlines to croak first instead of using his own troops

They might not have noticed it before as they thought Ansom had very true an noble reasons for sending them to fight; "we are here to defeat evil", "we are sending your forces because they are the best for the job" and so forth... but know they may think that their is something more to those "reasons"

It means he's going to do nothing for the next two turns, and then attack with twice the damage sustained. It'll be super effective!

But if Parson doesn't attack ansom then it will have no effect

[SteveMB]

I doubt at all that the coalition will break or split. There will be hidden bitterness for a while at least. But the idea that the coalition will split due to one outburst when Vinnie is there to diffuse the situation. The coalition will be strained but not broken.

True, breaking the coalition by needling Ansom into one hissy fit is rather too much to hope for. But it's a start. That's especially true if the more immediate benefit of making Ansom too furious to think straight (and thus, if my guess is correct, making him more likely to fall into another trap) is realized -- each new setback is bound to increase doubts about his leadership.

[Vreejack]

I don't think Stanley has exited the stage yet. He and Parson may well be reunited in the future.

I had considered this in the last thread but had felt it far more likely that Parson would join Charlie in some sort of mercenary trope. I have to admit, though, that your interpretation makes staying with Stanley much more possible. It is also a much more interesting result.

[discnerd]

Sure, that's the real reason.
But Parson hasn't stated his 'official' reason for calling, so he has to do so before breaking off.

I'm gonna go with asking Ansom to surrender. I mean the Titans are on Stanley's side. Ansom might as well give up.

[SteveMB]

I'm gonna go with asking Ansom to surrender. I mean the Titans are on Stanley's side. Ansom might as well give up.

Given that the real reason for the call is to provoke Ansom, it hardly matters what "official" reason he comes up with. I suppose he could invent something that ties in with his jibes (i.e. "I called to discuss your surrender, since our victory is the will of the Titans" or "I called with instructions for where to drop off the Arkenpliers, so that somone worthy to wield an Arkentool can attune to it").

Given that Parson originally planned to call several of the coalition leaders, he may have intended to advance his argument ("Stanley is attuned to the Arkenhammer; Ansom is not attuned to the Arkenpliers; that means that the Titans are on Stanley's side) with some hope of actually convincing them. Making that argument to Ansom obviously isn't going to persuade him, but it does serve the obvious function of enraging him and the less obvious -- but perhaps more damaging to his side -- one of giving him something to prove (especially if he harbors secret doubts that what Parson just said is the truth).

[DrivinAllNight]

It means he's going to do nothing for the next two turns, and then attack with twice the damage sustained. It'll be super effective!

But if Parson doesn't attack ansom then it will have no effect

Isn't Bide an attack mode from the Pokemon games??

[sihnfahl]

Personally, I'm going with a two-pronged effort.
Parson knows Ansom won't surrender or give up. Ansom's too intent on putting Stanley down and too egotistical to stop now. However, Parson will use that to his advantage.
Step one is to prick Ansom's ego. Make Ansom so enraged that he ignores advice from everyone and rushes headlong; if it wasn't for dumb luck, Ansom's little reckless charge into the empty dwagon hex would have resulted in a no-siege-for-Ansom situation.
Step two is to make another trap. The golems are there to draw Ansom in. When everyone else is saying 'Go for the walls!', Ansom is 'Go for the tunnels!'. With Ansom's superiority complex in full force, he'll commit his forces to the tunnels ... and straight into the myriad of traps Parson had Sizemore throw together...

With Ansom frothing at the 'superiority' of Royals, and everyone else seething that Ansom's discarding everything for his ego .... cumulative fractures.

[Taninger]

Another thing that's important to recognize is that Ansom hasn't really got a reason to be involved. As Vinnie drew out from him earlier, Jetstone hasn't got much of a reason to be involved in the coalition, let alone to lead it. Unless the others believe he's just being a nice guy routing the evil Stanley... then the only other reason is that he's attacking because Stanley isn't royalty.

Vinnie knew that. Now everyone does.

[Wender]

With Ansom frothing at the 'superiority' of Royals, and everyone else seething that Ansom's discarding everything for his ego .... cumulative fractures.

He only needs there to be so many fractures, because one of the things holding the alliance together is overwhelming force against a mediocre tactician. To the extent that Parson: demonstrates his talent as a warlord; blinds Ansom by wounding his ego; makes the alliance pay dearly for their first assault; and introduces some cracks and fissures into the already frail alliance at the command level, he can push the alliance to the breaking point. Nobody signed up for a bloodbath against a master strategist, nor did anyone sign up to follow an Ahab in a mad hunt for a white whale.

Once it becomes clear that the siege will not be a cakewalk, the alliance is in deep trouble.

[Vreejack]

If I am understanding this correctly, Ansom believes that Ansom's last combat was from a main garrison defense unit, stationed perhaps at the last defensible point protecting the city. It was not clear to us earlier, but apparently the marbit scouts got very close to the city and encountered nothing else, so Parson has created the appearance that he has absolutely nothing down there. It is so obviously stupid that he desperately needs top unbalance Ansom and convince him that Parson has only been lucky so far just to make sure Ansom falls for the ruse. Now that Ansom has lost his temper he will hopefully charge in, heedless and headless.

If Ansom does chatge into the tunnels, then it is all upon Sizemore's preparations. Given the time and resources a careful defender can destroy an entire attacking force if it catches it by surprise underground. The only question here is how much of Ansom's force can be fit underground at once?

I've had a little trouble keeping track here, but doesn't Ansom reach GK this turn? It will still take some time to surround the place in preparation for battle, but if that is just a feint then with his new enthusiasm he might commit everything underground at once.

[The Old Hack]

True, breaking the coalition by needling Ansom into one hissy fit is rather too much to hope for. But it's a start.

To return to wargaming from another angle: I've been in various games in which diplomacy played an important part. In all of these, large coalitions always prove very difficult to establish and maintain. It usually takes a very nasty common enemy before people will even consider it, and once the coalition has finally been established... well, suffice it to say that it is a fragile thing. Someone might get convinced that the others are using him to take all the losses. Someone might get greedy and grab for a bigger share than is fair, upsetting the rest. Someone might be seduced into a separate and favourable peace.

That start may have surprising effects in just a couple of Turns. No, I don't expect instant effects either. But from small seeds...

That's especially true if the more immediate benefit of making Ansom too furious to think straight (and thus, if my guess is correct, making him more likely to fall into another trap) is realized -- each new setback is bound to increase doubts about his leadership.

A certain short Frenchman once said, "I would rather fight an alliance than be part of one." In the end he lost out to one, but he certainly knew how difficult it was to keep one going.

[stsasser]

C'mon, Ansom; tell us what you really think about jumped-up, risen-through-the-ranks overlords/warlords...

[rman]

Question from a non English-speaker: What's the meaning of Ansom saying "Bide" in the first panel ?

Bide -> wait a bit, as in "bide your time" really old phrasing.

Essentially "hold on a sec, I have a call"

[BarGamer]

Another thing that's important to recognize is that Ansom hasn't really got a reason to be involved. As Vinnie drew out from him earlier, Jetstone hasn't got much of a reason to be involved in the coalition, let alone to lead it. Unless the others believe he's just being a nice guy routing the evil Stanley... then the only other reason is that he's attacking because Stanley isn't royalty. Vinnie knew that. Now everyone does.

SIIIIIICK! Depending on how bright the other faction leaders are, and how high the Coalition casualties start mounting up, they might start asking themselves, "After Stanley is gone... are we NEXT??" The Marbits and Elves, especially the Tardy Elves, are probably the most worried. If they take heavy losses fighting Stanley, it would make them easier to be conquered next.

Even the Royal leaders, if any, might get worried, since from Parson's logic, they are unworthy of ruling, since they don't have Attuned Arkentools. They might start checking Ansom for signs of madness... Like: an obsession with Jillian, volatile temper, and since he's got an Arkentool, a danger to himself and others...

[Laurentio]

Ansom is a Prince, heir to the throne. So there is a King, over him, that allowed him to take the army and form an alliance without any real reason other than his son's will. It makes sense, as it was an easy war, and probably they get some good bounty in the course (first stripes: Stanley lost several cities).

Now the alliance is tense, the victory less probable, and Ansom is acting crazy - or at least not graciously as you could expect from a Prince. I'd really like to know the King opinion.

Laurentio

[Vreejack]

SIIIIIICK! Depending on how bright the other faction leaders are, and how high the Coalition casualties start mounting up, they might start asking themselves, "After Stanley is gone... are we NEXT??" The Marbits and Elves, especially the Tardy Elves, are probably the most worried. If they take heavy losses fighting Stanley, it would make them easier to be conquered next.

Even the Royal leaders, if any, might get worried, since from Parson's logic, they are unworthy of ruling, since they don't have Attuned Arkentools. They might start checking Ansom for signs of madness... Like: an obsession with Jillian, volatile temper, and since he's got an Arkentool, a danger to himself and others...

Royalists such as Ansom are essentially traditionalists, as it is tradition that confirms their own power. The marbits and elves have nothing to fear from Ansom because they traditionally have no king. In fact, they validate Ansom by their need to ally with kingdoms in order to get things done.

I'm not sure what your point is concerning the allied royals and the arkentools. They should be afraid of Ansom because they don't have attuned arkentools, like him? "Well, excuse me your honor, but that don't make no sense."

[sihnfahl]

Royalists such as Ansom are essentially traditionalists, as it is tradition that confirms their own power. The marbits and elves have nothing to fear from Ansom because they traditionally have no king. In fact, they validate Ansom by their need to ally with kingdoms in order to get things done.

OTOH, 'unaligned' factions (marbits, elves, etc) hold their allegiance to themselves. And they DO rebel. I think of them as mercenaries, like Charlie, only less ... honor-bound. "We'll go your way as long as it benefits us. If there's someone better out there, and you're losing to them, we'll go with them."

Fight, suffer a few losses, but come out on top in the end? Good.
Be treated as cannon fodder to salve some royal's ego? Bad.

[fendrin]

OTOH, 'unaligned' factions (marbits, elves, etc) hold their allegiance to themselves. And they DO rebel. I think of them as mercenaries, like Charlie, only less ... honor-bound. "We'll go your way as long as it benefits us. If there's someone better out there, and you're losing to them, we'll go with them."

Fight, suffer a few losses, but come out on top in the end? Good.
Be treated as cannon fodder to salve some royal's ego? Bad.

I think it's a big mistake to lump all of the non-humans together like that. We see a huge difference in personality amongst the various Elves, so assuming that all Elves and the Marbits are less honor-bound than Charlie is a big mistake.
Especially considering that Charlie isn't honorable at all. His decision is purely greed motivated.

As far as we know, the Goblins performed their coup out of honor and loyalty (to someone other than King Saline IV, of course). Other than that, we have no indication whatsoever of the honor or lack thereof of any of the non-humans.

[Roldolfo1]

If Ansom does chatge into the tunnels, then it is all upon Sizemore's preparations. Given the time and resources a careful defender can destroy an entire attacking force if it catches it by surprise underground.

Even surprise may not be entirely necessary. If you have an extra 3 hours available to watch Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai" you'll see an excellent example of how leadership, careful preparation and execution can destroy a superior force.

R1

[SteveMB]

If Ansom does chatge into the tunnels, then it is all upon Sizemore's preparations. Given the time and resources a careful defender can destroy an entire attacking force if it catches it by surprise underground. The only question here is how much of Ansom's force can be fit underground at once?

If Ansom is lured into charging a specific target (e.g. the "main garrison stack" he thinks he's found), then a large force can be cut off or perhaps destroyed outright by collapsing a few tunnels -- all it takes it to draw them into the right location.