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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    FlyMolo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    I don't believe so. It's unclear, because they are subject to other things constructs are invulnerable to. It takes 3 damage, at least. How much health does it have now?
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Three damage will be enough to incapacitate it. However, prior to that we need to resolve the AoO issue. Will rule it when I get back to books.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-04-06 at 02:56 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    Three damage will be enough to incapacitate it. However, prior to that we need to resolve the AoO issue. Will rule it when I get back to books.
    I think it does take the AoO. I don't know if that's in my best interest, one way or another, but it's in his square, threatening him. Then he leaves, provoking an AoO.

    Not a ref, tho.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    @Flymolo:
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    If it takes the AoO, that could break the charm. If you can order it to take no offensive actions, it wouldn't. If you can't, it would take the AoO. That's why I need to get to books, to read rules for Psionic Tattoos. If it's a construct, and you created it, it could be construed as an "ally" of you, that's the issue. Will have an answer for you in 2 hours.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    After reviewing source, the Crawling Tattoo does allow wielder to claim it, However, other than that, the wielder has no control over it.

    Grushnak moves out of B2, moving to A4 (10 foot move), provoking an AoO. (The tattoo does threaten its own square). The tattoo must take that AoO.

    Flymolo, you may roll the attack for the crystal, as you have LOS.

    2nd part. Prior to the crossbow attack. Does the AoO break Charm? According to Charm:
    Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.
    Now, the psicrystal activated the tattoo, and that is what's attacking him. The tattoo might not be considered an ally (Llince has stated his intent to protect Grushnak from the tattoo), however, the item that activated the tattoo certainly is.

    I hate precedent-setting rulings. I really do. I'd like a little more opinion before a ruling is made. Either way, Flymolo, make the AoO attack for the tattoo. Whether charm stays or not is in question though, so this match will be on pause immediately following that attack.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    ref Morbius

    ... pretend this is not here...
    Last edited by Morbius; 2008-04-06 at 09:39 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    (1d20+5)[17] AC something. 16?

    (1d6)[3] damage

    It says apparent allies, doesn't it? So far I've stated explicitly that I don't want the tattoo to attack him anymore. So whether it's an ally is not in question, it's whether its an apparent ally.

    Anyways, match paused.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    See, but there, if we rule that the tattoo, and not the creature that activated it, is the "ally", then it would be, at the very least, a bluff check, opposed by sense motive, to convince your opponent of something that's not true.

    That seems the simplest course, however, and, in absence of other opinions, that's going to be the one I go with.

    EDIT: Llince, I need a bluff check from you.
    Grushnak, I need a sense motive.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-04-07 at 05:14 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Sense Motive check (1d20)[14]
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    The ironic part is, it's not doing what I want, it's not listening to me, and its not even acting in my best interests.

    Even IC.

    (1d20-2)[5]

    I knew I shouldn't have dumped Cha.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Even more interestingly, does this count as a failed charm for purposes of activating my psicrystals readied action?
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    The bluff was for "Sorry about earlier. He's a little impulsive.". You were giving the impression that the crystal was acting against your best interests when it launched its attack, and that the attack was a misunderstanding, rather than intended.

    The charm spell breaks, based on what Grushnak can only perceive as an intentional attack, by something launched from an ally.

    I'll get followup on the readied action in a minute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conditions
    Activated on a failed charm ONLY.
    The terms are considerably more vague than "on a failed save" or, "if he's not successfully charmed".

    Grr, this match has too many non-clear-cut rulings.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-04-07 at 07:51 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    @Talic Refs
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    The charm was successful. Although I didn't check to see if the in combat +5 modifer was added to the save. The readied action should only trigger if the charm had failed, which it did not. It was removed after the fact.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

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    Combat +5 was included.


    I think we're in agreement here, a charm that successfully saves, and is subsequently broken by an attack is not considered to have failed.

    Play continues from the point the charm was broken, which was the missed attack by the tattoo.

    Grushnak may modify the remainder of the turn based on the broken charm.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Well, revised round based on the fact that is was a failed bluff. crawling tattoo isn't incapacitated.
    Grushnak moves instead to B4, enraged. "You think apologies and false friendships work in an arena match? Think again!" He fires a bolt at Llince.
    Attack roll: (1d20+10)[17]
    Damage if it hits:(1d6+4)[6]

    The failed bluff was before the charm, and the charm ending was after the bluff. How to verbally react to that?
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    I assume we're using the first rolls? In which case that misses. Do I get cover? Nevermind, it doesn't matter.

    I'm in E1, Psicrystal in F1. We move to B2/B3. I'm in B3. I manifest something. Roll a DC 15 will save
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    Or take(1d10)[9] damage. Mind Thrust, baybee!
    My tattoo presses a hand to his cheek, and something small and dark drops off and runs at you, skittering down the legs of my psicrystal and right up to you, lunging with inky jaws at your feet. But missing horribly. (yup, another one.) (1d20+5)[8]AC 16. If it hits, stuff happens. But it didn't. Lackaday.

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    Full health, pp6/8, AC 19 for me, AC 20 all powers undischarged crystal. No tattoos left on any of us.
    Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-04-08 at 06:38 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Will Save (1d20+1)[17]
    If that doesn't hinder me, I'll take a 5 foot step back towards B5 and shoot again at Llince.
    Attack Roll: (1d20+10)[24]
    Damage if it hits: (1d6+4)[10]
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    I am glad I took Enhanced Resilience. I burn 2 pp to take that damage down to 2, then take it.

    Waitaminute. Don't I get soft cover? My psicrystal is in the way, after all. (1d100)[83] 20 or less and it misses and I don't take the damage. Yay. I probably will, so we'll roll with that for now.

    The tattoo runs up to you and swings at you. (1d20+5)[16] AC 16 And you're entangled.

    I manifest something. Make another DC 15 Will save or
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    take (1d10)[7] damage. Work this time plz![/roll]


    My psicrystal manifests something painful too. (1d20+5)[14]AC 16, normally, but you take a penalty to dex for being entangled now, right? So what, 14?(2d6+2)[4]

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    3/5 health, pp3/8, AC 19+4(cover)=23 for me, AC 20 one fire ray used for crystal. No tattoos left on any of us.
    Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-04-09 at 05:39 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    So I'm out some pp, take some(2) damage, you take some (4)damage and have to roll another will save. You're entangled. Okay. I'm all straight now.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    Soft cover and concealment are two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Soft Cover

    Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD, Entangled
    The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spellís level) or lose the spell.
    Correct on the entanglement. Opponent needs to make a will save for the effect listed. For future reference, please label the actions you take. It makes it much easier to sort each turn out.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-04-09 at 07:01 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    You would have no reason to get soft cover. You were in B3(check your post yesterday), I was in B4. I stepped back to B5 and attacked.

    Your psicrystal isn't in the way because you said you both moved to B2/B3, and you were in B3, placing your psicrystal in the square behind you (B2)

    Even if you did get soft cover, it gives a +4 bonus to AC, not a percentile chance of it hitting the giver of cover. In that circumstance, your current AC would have to rise to 25, or you'd need to spend more power points to prevent incapacitation
    Last edited by LtKeen; 2008-04-09 at 07:09 PM. Reason: ref apparently is on right now o.O
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    Grushnak PvP Gladiator. 4-2 (2nd Place, Round 35)
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Will save: (1d20+1)[20]

    If that doesn't hinder me, I'll move back to B5, and make another attack
    Attack Roll: (1d20+6)[26]
    Damage if it Hits: (1d6+3)[6]

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    current hp: 4/11
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    Grushnak PvP Gladiator. 4-2 (2nd Place, Round 35)
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    I critted again?
    Rolling to confirm: (1d20+6)[17]
    If so, that's 12 damage
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Oh bugger! I totally messed up my positions! In theory I was supposed to be behind the psicrystal, in order to gain cover. So much for that, right? And the soft cover thing(annoyingly, you rolled well enough to hit me anyway. I'm not very good at this, am I?

    Ah well. I blow a power point (immediate) to take 2 damage instead of 6. I manifest again(standard). Roll another will save, DC 15. Fail this time, if you would be so good.
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    (1d10)[9]damage


    I head for the hills. I move out of sight behind the barn (move), ending at
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    G1 I maintain telepathic contact(range 1 mile, I think?). My psicrystal is under orders to tell me anything it sees.


    My psicrystal manifests again(standard), then moves to A5. (1d20+5)[8]AC 14(2d6+2)[8]

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    Me: AC 19, pp 1/8, health 1/5, Location G1
    Psicrystal: AC 20, both rays used, health 13/13, location A5
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Bah. He misses. Will save failure will save failure will save failure will save failure will save failure

    In other news, how many crits have you rolled today?
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    Another point of note. x2 crit does not equal "double the damage". It means, "roll the weapon's damage again".

    In other words, it would be
    2d6+8, not (1d6+4)x2.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    apparently because of a typo I DIDN'T move last turn, though I did fire a ranged weapon. anywho, if neither my Will save nor anything else hinders me, I'll move to C3, and fire upon Llince if I see him, if not, the tattoo that keeps hitting me for damage.

    Will Save: (1d20+1)[15]

    Attack Roll: (1d20+6)[19]
    Damage if it Hits: (1d6+3)[9]
    Subtract 1 to the to hit and damage if my target is further than 30 feet away.

    This time I barely make the Will save, but still somehow make it nonetheless. Do these forum rollers love me or what?
    Last edited by LtKeen; 2008-04-09 at 10:37 PM. Reason: clarification text
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    Okay, you definitely see me. I'm in G1. Cover rulings need to be ruled(not my forte, but I'm almost nearly sure I get cover.) And you provoke an AoO from my psicrystal. (1d20+5)[19]AC No idea. (1d4)[3] damage, and make a DC 11 reflex save or catch on fire.

    I'll get a ref for that cover silliness.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    And I forgot the fire damage. Typical. (1d4)[2]

    Your AC can't be higher than 18, cuz that's what it was earlier. So you take 5 damage at least. How many hitpoints do you have left?
    Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-04-10 at 04:33 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

    High Ref Talic

    Yes, Llince in G1 has cover from Grushnak in C3. +4 AC is the relevant bonus.

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