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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    hello again! this is the sixth thread dealing with various disregarded monsters, and the way to make them more interesting, and more "game worthy". this particular thread will deal with the Gargoyles, but you can check the links below for other "revamped" creatures, and to learn more of the concept idea.

    to those of you who have followed the previous threads, this thread is far less focused on "game mechanics" as was the Barghest one, but rather more focused on the fluff/ flavour/ interactions parts.

    again, any comments, for good or bad, are welcomed. the feedback is partof what makes these threads worthwhile (though i would probably write them anyway, as an outlet for ideas). the Gargoyle "species" (as far as this can be said) has many varients, and sub-cultures than the cretures i've dealt with before. i've mentioned some of those in the thread, but i'd be interested to hear your ideas on them, or on new variants as well.

    i will not repeat the basic concept of these ideas here, so not to bore. but if you are interested, please check either the first or second link. i am hopefull i'll see more of these threads, by other forum members, and keep the idea alive (check the 3rd and 5th links for an example). it is my firm belief that fewer types, of monsters who have a place, depth, uniqueness, and varied ways of use, are better than a multitude of random scattered monsters (or as belkar said it- "chunks of XP").

    before i begin, the links:
    1) the basic premise, and the stalking parasite known as the Stirge:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...=1#post4125022

    2) giving stone giants culture, community, and a more distinct feel:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76372

    3) the flying terror- Prometheus new look on the Yeth Hound. a style different than mine (i tend to write very, very long threads), but that breaths new life and ideas
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76866

    4) the Barghest: a devilry which originates in an ancient deal
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76879

    5) the Wight: a template from Batsofchaos, that makes one of the most basic undead now avaialbe in many forms, shapes and sizes.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78429

    now, that we got that out of the way, i ask you to remember your visit to one of Europe old churches, the impressive buildings, the feelings of awe, the parapets with the strange creatures poised on them, looking down, waiting. wait, that i just see one of them move?
    Last edited by Kol Korran; 2008-04-23 at 05:05 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Gargoyles have a rich history in out world- they decorate many religious establishments, and also some other grand statues. they have often been considered as either watchers/ sentinels or guardians of the structure they decorated, said to wake if a time of need calls them to. many were grafted to the images of devils, angles, and other creatures, representing the supernatural protectors.
    DnD tried to draw inspiration from that, but as with many monsters- did that poorly. the gargoyle have been through several tranformations through the DnD editions but it always failed to realy, um, lift of the ground. i hope this thread will help rectify this, to a small extent at least.
    the inspiration for the thread came from many places. (i never said i had utterly original ideas): from years of playing, from reading a bit about history, from Terry Pratchet's books, from the Notredame disney movie, probably from the few episodes of the series "gargoyles" i saw long ago (check Talya's post for an image) and probably more that i can't think of. still, i hope i gave it all a more "DnD appropriate" feel, and made it more "game worthy".
    ok, here goes


    Gargoyle. MMI

    Bad street Rep: first, Gargoyles are a one shtick monster- pretends to be statue, and then it attacks. the DR/ magic is supposed to make it "magical"... c'mon! this makes it even more boring than many common animals or beasts who lack any real tactic.

    second- not only does it have one shtick, but it's a realy, realy bad one: most group finding statues will think of one of 4 possible threats immediatly: traps, petrifying monsters, animated objects, or gargoyles. now, if you see the statue looks like a gargoyle (since in DnD it has only one form), most will immediatly hack it, not waiting to see if it moves or not. the "freeze" ability is utterly rediculeous. so, this leaves the gargoyle as a boring, and a not very succesfull encounter, which is why most DM just forget about it all together.

    i care for it because: gargoyles have a rich history, and a strong connections to religons, which offered an interesting venue to explore. according to 1st edition, as well as Earth myths, they are crafted, but posses their own intelligence and driving force. the gargoyles seemed to exist in borders, so to speak: on the borders of the church peremiter, the border between being alive and not, the border between taken seriously and not, the border between divine and just stone, the border between desciples of the church, and the church itself. they were intriguing to say the least...

    in turning this to DnD, where such things as gods, constructs, devils and angels existed, i thought the gargoyle could be made into much, much more than "statue leaps at you. grrrr!"


    and now presenting to you, the new and improved gargoyle:

    - perception: the changes i have made in the gargoyle all lead to it new roles in the game. the gargolye is now a construct, with the living subtype. they were originaly made creatures, but their intelligence have allowed them to break out as an independent "species" (as far as this term can be applied). this fundemental change is crucial to it's interactions in the world, and also explains part of their unique outlook. moreover, it means there are many, many forms and types of gargoyles, other than the most common ones. (it's not a template though)

    the gargoyles were originally created to perform as sentinels, guardians, and protectors. this aspect of their character have prevailed to this day, and dictates much of the gargoyles personality and place in the environment. nearly all gargoyles watch or protect a place, in some way or another. they have developd certain powers to enchance their capabilites in this role. chief amongst these powers, are their abilities to "fade out" and their rebuilding powers (both will be discussed). the first enables them to divert the mind of whomever observes them, looks for them, and so on (this replaces the freeze, making the "statue surprises and attack" schtick far more viable, with added twists). the second enables them to survive after being destroyed, leading to far more extreme battle tactics, similar to fanaticism.

    the last major change of role for the gargoyles, is with it's interactions. no more is it but a lonely predator with an odd method of stalking- the gargoyle has a strong conenction to religions, history, architecture, and some even say the planes. gargoyles are not "just another monster", and interact with many different creatures based on their own character and the situation.

    - concept: we shall begin with the theorized origins of Gargoyles: records show that several times through history, advanced cultures have created, or recreated gargoyles. dissatisifed with the constructs and golems, which were usually mindless and simple. crafters and various artificers (i do not mean the class) of old tried to create an intelligent construct, but have often failed.

    it was divine magic rather than arcane that did the trick. priests channeled a massive amount of positive energy of an unknown quality, that both animated the various designated stone bodies, and imbued them with some sort of a core intelligence. the source of this intelligence was unclear at first, but soon enough the gargoyles themselves began to provide clues- they began to modify and sculpt their bodies to the momory of shapes and motifs in their mind- the faces usually became demonic, delivish or angelic. strange runes and writings appeard on the "skin", many of the symbols resembling languages of the outsiders planes. and nearly all gargoyles sprouted stone wings, of some sort or another (usually feathery or leathery looking). needless to say, this caused much speculation in the various religions...

    but other than to peek the priests curiousity, the origins of the gargoyles intelligence seemd of little significance- these were independent thinkers, with minds, motivations, and interests of their own. many of them proved far more valuable than the older golems, being capable to reason, and carry out complex tasks. however, this intelligence proved to be a hindrance to the crafters as well- the gargoyles could not be so easely controlled and commanded as the older cunstructs were. many of them refused tasks, circumvented them, or even rebelled or ran away. though many gargoyles came to understandings with the various temples and other organizations, many also spread far and wide, finding new niches, new alliances, and new places to protect and guard.

    many types and forms of gargoyles were created (usually by different species, religions, and so on), but some things are common to all gargoyles. (some of this will be discussed more broadly in the game mechanics part):

    • living constructs: Gargoyles are made beings, like other constructs, they need not sleep, eat, they do not age and more. they do posses intelligence, consitution score and more. they are also capable of learning and improving themsleves, by taking character levels.
    • a gargyole is a conenction between the stone form, and the positive energy intelligence inside. the energy can expand and recede in the form, leading to three states of body and awareness- the stone sentinel, the half awakened gargoyle and the fully awakened one.
    • the gargoyles posses a unique ability called "fade out" . this ability is active as long as the gargoyle remains motionless (in any of it's states). it affects the mind of whomever beomces aware of the gargoyle's presence, whether by just spotting it, seeing it, scrying upon it and so... if causes the subject to disregard/ overlook/ forget about the existence of the gargyole, even if actively looking for it. this is a strong mind affecting effect, and an integral part of the gargoyle's essence. it does not need be aware of any potential targets, and is not aware that this power affects anyone as well. some theorize this power developed to protect the gargoyles from persecution, while other think it developed to help it in it's protective duties (how can you be sure there is nor gargoyle in this room? you might just be overlooking it, while it stares you right in the face). this power works well even agianst common divinations such as detect invisibility (it's not invisible, you just don't realy "want to" see it), scrying, and more. some strong willed individuals are capable of noticing gargoyles while still, but most of the population doesn't (high will D). as soon as the gargoyles moves however, this effect is broken.
    • positive energy link: gargoyles, being partly made of vivid positive energy, can draw upon other sources of it. this power can both hinder or help channalers of positive energy, and makes the gargoyles valuable allies or enemies to such inidviduals.
    • Rebuilding: one of the best kept secrets of the gargoyles, and one of the reason they sometime seem so fierce. gargoyles in battle can often seem careless, without much regard to their personal well being. many times they make use of suicidal tactics to bring down formidable foes. the truth is that though much of the Gargoyle's body may be destroyed, even beyond recognition, the positive energy spirit within can rebuild it, if there are the right conditions. if these conditions are not present, (such as in the case of most roaming gargoyles and feral ones) the gargoyle acts far more cautiously.
    • alter worked stone: this power works like Stoneshape, only it can work only on worked stone, and it takes it a long time to work... gargoyles everywhere slowly and methodically alter their surroundings- carvings new statues, making glyphs, writing and runes, and in the case of the more industirous gargoyles livign in perilious places- traps. this pwoer takes days, if not weeks or months to show it's effects though.
    • Tounges: a gargoyle cannot speak, but it understand all languages. it communicates either by signals, actions, or scribling on the earth/ walls. there are more complex forms of communication but that will be dealt with later.
    • guardian powers: as part of their role, each gargoyle usually posses one or two powers that enahance its capabilites. these usually take the form of a constantly active divination spell/ sensory amplification, but at times have other applications. gargoyles can change these powers to different ones in order to fit their new purpose or role, but this too takes days, weeks, or months.


    but these are all general charectaristics, they give some insights into the gargoyles and their behaviour, but for an in depth look, lets move on to the next section.

    - Place in the world: Garagoyles posses a difficult mind to understand by most people. their interests seem partly connected to those of the intelligent species, but partly not. this might be to the origins of their mind- Gargoyles seem to be listening to some sort of hidden cross-planes-frequency, that no one else can hear. many of the priests, mages or others who tried to deal with them, found out that not only did gargoyles give their own interpertations to the communication, but they also came to entirely weird or insubstantial conclusions, which seemed to rely on all kind of information whose origins could not be confirmed..

    another odd (if at times usefull) behviour aspect of ther gargoyles is their intimate connection and dependency on buildings, structures and other manufactured places.. the vast amount of gargoyles in the world lives in, on, or somehow attched to some structure or another. they seem to prefer older places, with more history, architecture, and importence to them (how gargoyles sense that, no one knows, but it is evident they do sense it). many landmarks have at least a few gargoyles connected to them, but due to their "fade out" ability, no one knows exactly how many, if they are the same or they change, or much else. sometime even the presence of gargoyles is hard to detect, until they begin affecting the place.

    but why are they there? what do they want? it is unclear, but there are some facts that are known, or suspected... the first and most obvious thing, is that the gargoyles don't consider the structure/ building/ place just as a place, but they treat it as if it was a living thing! they care for it, repair it, improve it, and perhaps most importently- they guard it. this is not to mean gargoyles attack anyone wh just enter their place. gargoyles on the whole prefer to remain as anonymous as possible, making their presence known only when absolutley necessery. a gargyole will confront someone only if the person's presence is either dangerous to the place, or stand in objection to the purpose and history of the building...

    this might be the confusing part, but gargoyles obviously either sense, or determine for themselves of the purposes and "character" of the structure they are linked to. if someone acts against the code of a temple, he might find the temple gargoyle there. if someone wishes to interupt an act at a theater, the same may apply. if someone wishes to steal from an old store house... what is more intriguing however is that the gargoyles themselves seems to personalise the "character" of the building- a place dedicated to a courageous and strightforward deity will be protected by similar acting gargoyles. an abandoend temple for the gods of death and torture will most likely have gargoyles that revel in causing pain, decorating themsleves with skulls of former victims. an old messaging station of House Sivis on Eberron might have very serious, strict, and methodical gargoyles on it's roof.

    not all gargoyles however live in populated places, or even have access to structures. there are 4 basic types of Gargoyles, divided by habitat:

    • City gargoyles: this category encompasses all gargoyles who live in areas inhabited heavily by other creatures. gargoyles try to keep a faily low key in these places, though they also tend to expand quite a bit. the gargoyles do not attach themselves to any structure however, but only places of history and/ or importance. gargyoles stay almost exclusively in ther stone sentinel state in populated areas, to avoid a chance of getting caught. most temples and other places of import assume they have a gargoyle or two, and may communicate them (in the interactions sections). some places, which are more accepting of gargoyles use them as messangers, guardians and more (sharn and Droaam in Eberron, as well as many of the Khundarak major vaults). the city and ruin gargoyles (next category), are the most common communicators.
    • Ruin Gargoyles: these are gargoyles who left more inhabited places either because of persecution, lack of space, or any other reason. the places they inhabit need not be utter ruins- the name refers merely to places not heavily populated. these gargoyles tend to take a more active role in defending their home, and may be found patroling their places (usually in half awakened state). Ruin Gargoyles are far more likely than City gargoyles to refer to an entire street, small city or other large are as their structure (mostly due to the ability to move, and the vast amount of buildings that may need repair). due to the increased dangers of their local, ruin gargoyles usually make alliances with various creatures, for their combined defense. in some realy old ruins, some gargoyles have stayed for ages, and has grown in strength and purpose (more HD or levels, and usually more Guardian powers).
    • Roaming Gargoyles: it is theorized that the gargoyles of each structure slowly create more gargoyles in some inexplicable way (sculpting the body, then animating it with combined positve energy). some buildings have been known to accumulate gargoyles, though no one know if it is due to creation of more, or migration (or perhaps they were always there. you can never know due to "fade out"). it is believed that when a structure reaches a certain capacity, new formed gargoyles must leave, till they find their own place. these "structureless" gargoyles do seem less experienced. they are however far more cautious, and usually prefer stealth over combat. many times these gargoyles make tense deals with some group or another, that allows it to use some of it's structures, in return for it's guardianship and added muscle. amongst all other categories, these spend their time in the fully awakened state the most, while searching for a place. sometime large groups of gargoyles were met in this manner, usually when their structure was destroyed or occupied.
    • Feral Gargoyles: roaming gargoyles who don't find a structure soon enough, seem to lose some of their sanity, and become Feral- they usually align with various vicious beasts or creatures, and do prey on nearly everything. these things are menace, and thoiugh insane they are still cunning. the feral gargoyles are part of the reason many priests and scholars in the past called for the gargoyles destruction, claiming all gargoyles posses this madness, and that at one point or another they will turn on all the civilized species. there has been no proof , though these gargoyles usualy alter their features to resemble demons even more.


    another way to categorize gargoyles, is by form. the form mostly derives from the culture/s that created the gargoyles. all gargoyles however, as said before, alter their appearances, most notably their faces, runes on their "skin", and the sprouting of wings. the abilites and mechanics will be discussed later, but here are some of the more known forms:
    • humanoid gargoyle: the basic one, based on the one in the MM. these gargoyles are the most common to gain class levels, though far from the only ones.. sometime the humaoind represent some race, sometime some ideal or outsider , or whatever. the differences usually mostly disappear by the time the gargoyle finishes altering it's appearance to it's own preference, though sometime some indication remains (a symbol of an era, and such).
    • Lion gargoyles: whether these were created to immitate dragonnes, sphinx, lammasu, or some other creature is unknown. the majesty of these gargoyles is usually hindered by the face. they are most commonly the guardians of vast spaces, openings to buildings, arenas, great halls and more. created to inspire awe and fear ,they rarely survive as City gargoyles, but are fairly common in Ruins.
    • Draconic Gargoyles: these were shaped in the image of dragons, and are amongst the rarest of all gargoyles. (the creation price is a severe). these gargyoles are always guardians of importent places, and have rarely travled a far. they are usually more powerfull then the more common gargoyles. young dragons seem to like them (and create alliances with them), while older ones usually just tend to ignore...
    • Serpentine gargoyle: the winged serpent gargoyles are usually fairly large to huge. the vast majority of these were created by the Yuan Ti. these gargoyles foucs their powers to protect the Yuan Ti temples, mostly masking them from divinations. in a time of need however, they prove to be fierce combatants, and work well with the abomination priests. Serpent gargoyles have been found at other locals, the Ruin ones are fierce protectors, and far more aggresive than most gargoyles are. the Feral ones are a serious danger.
    • Aquatic Gargoyles: created either by the Kuo-Toa, the sahuagin, or someone else (most think it was someone else, perhaps aquatic elves). these look very smiliar to the humanoid ones, but they wings adapted to swimming, almost like a manta ray. nearly all of these live in submerged ruins.
    • Spider/ Marilian gargoyle: these seem to be an abberation of the common gargoyle design (not the abberation type though) instead of wings they develop two extra pairs of arms (or perhaps the wings changed to arms). these gargoyles are mostly Feral, but some are not. they tend to be tool users far earlier then the rest. the feral ones seem to associate with ettercaps, monsterous spiders, driders and so on. one theory claims the dark elves or their goddess have created, or influenced their creation. another theory claims that these gargoyles have a fairly big chunk of a Marilith in their essence. the real reason is unknown.
    • Collosal/ ancient gargoyle:[/B] these are by far the rarest of any gargoyles that were either mentioend or not mentioned here! no one knows exactly how these creatures came to be, though there are some theories. a Collosal Gargoyle is usually the size of an enroumeous building/ small city! (many scholars in fact believe that the gargoyles purpose in attaching to buildings is to create these giants). these small fortresses are each fairly unique with it's own powers and statistics, and are known only to exist in legend (one exception is in Eberron, where a Daelkyr and it's court all reside in one of these gargoyles, who slowly crwals over in the depths of Khyber). theories of scholars who explored this field say a gargoyle of this size is cannot be created, but fragments of research from long gone cultures suggests otherwise...



    - interactions: gargoyles usually prefer not to interact with those around them, much more content to just stay as they are, and think gargoylian thoughs... that said, gargoyles do interact with the world whenever something comes into the scope of their guardianship, or in matters of their own safety and protection. it is importent to remember that though gargoyles have independent minds,city and ruin gargoyles incorporate into their character aspects of the structure/ area character. usually by dealing with a gargoyle you get a feeling of the place, as it is now, and as it was before.

    the guarding of the place can be done with or without cooperation of any of the place inhabitants (if any). however. if the gargoyles find an appropriate representative (someone else who share their desires for the building, usually a head of a temple, a leader of a guild, a dragon that lies in the ruins and so on), they may try and communicate with it through the Gargoyle Script, letting it be aware of their presence. this opens the negotiaion/ discussionand, perhaps letting the other side ask them to protect certain parts, watch certain people, choose specific guardian powers and so on. the communication is often difficult, and does not always get out the exact results desired. (though they are rarely off by much)

    Gargoyle Script is both a way of communication, and a form of expression. gargoyles regulerily use their alter stone powers to etch numerous writings on the walls, pillars and so of where they live. these are often cryptic, and written in a mutlitude of laguages at once (usualy a different language every 3-4 words). the topics can be many: their daily sightings, thoughts, and more. amogst these are also glimpses of the structures history, and that of the people who build it, and also various "messages" about matters that may metter to the "character" of the building (scholars believe this is how the gargoyles try and communicate with it).

    the script can be used to learn about the place (more on that in the game mechanics part), but also as a way to learn the gargoyles answers to a person's questions. usually a representative goes to a part of the structure he knows the gargolyes reside in (where someone seen them, or more likely- the script), and asks a question loud and clear. next day, it's time to search the new scripts, and decipher the answer. due to the slowness of this method, and the complexity of translation, this is not a very reliable form, but it is the only one that enables long discussions, as gargoyles are very reluctent to reveal their presece for "normal" signal communication.

    as to the normal requests and communications with gargoyles:
    • guarding routine: the representative details his/ her list of priorities, what threts are expected, and perhaps what powers s/he asks the gargoyles to use (provided they know of it). the gargoyle response can be simple or complex, sometime adding information to the original analasys.
    • query about the place's history, people or more:. gargoyles will be truthfull only if this won't harm the place.
    • religious or scholary inquery, about other subjects: gargoyles have a special connection to divinity, and they have lived long enough, in importent enough places to have learned many things of many places. the answer to these questions may be the most obscure and cryptic, but sometiem there are real gems of knowledge in the confusing babble.
    • outgoing mission for a purpose: this is one of the most difficult services to get, since it means the gargoyle leaves it's structure. a gargoyle would tend to agree to missions that somehow serve either the place, or the place's "character" (some armies have been known to have Gargoyle squadrons, on a "holy mission"). roaming gargoyles usually agree to this if promised a safe lodging in the structure afterward.

    note that with all of these, gargoyles still look out after their own interests, and might lie, conceal or more if needed. another importent thign to keep in mind, is that when sending them away, gargoyles have their own interpertations of when the job was done.

    though this covers the basic interactions with gargoyles (other then being attacked, or your plans foiled by their powers/ observence) with certain creatures, gargoyles usually have a special relationship:
    • other types of gargoyles: gargoyles seem to care little about type, but mostly about purpose and allegiance (as these are influenced by the structure). leadership in a place is determined by seniority, and experience, not by type or power. gargoyles, as far as it can be estimated, care little for these matters anyway. the one exception is Marilian gargoyles- these are either outcasted, or raised to leadership. the reasons for this remain obscure, gargoyles refuse to script of it.
    • divine casters, mostly "civilised" ones: gargoyles acknowledge the religions part in their creation, but are not willing to fully submit to them. gargoyles have a preference to temples and other religious sites, and are usually more open towards clerics and their similars. this is however a very close, and very intimate relationship, as many clerics in the past tried to destory them. the gargoyle's link to positive energy, makes them both an ally and an enemy to positive energy channelers, and so views vary. most often, the gargoyles view of the cleric is colored mostly by it's own character, and the character of the place it is attached to. gargoyles have been known to be the closest allies of temples, and the worst enemies.
    • mindless undead, mindless constructs, and anything that is immune to their "fade out" power: gargoyles are weary of all of them, often endevouring to either destory these, or find their master and broker a deal with him/ her. the gargoyles are used to live in a state where no one realy sees them, and it is deeply disturbing to them when that is not the case.
    • Yuan- Ti: the makers the serpentine gargoyles. this specific type are fiercly loyal to their makers and ideals. as to other variants- though many gargoyles shun the oppresive nature of the Yuan Ti culure, their need for secrecy always ensure that a gargoyle can find a place there, with it's skills.
    • outsiders: oddly enough, the gargoyles have no particualr response to the ousiders, though some legends and rumors say that certain outsiders can bend gargoyles to their will like an eveil cleric can rebuke undead (i didn't touch this idea, feel free to expand on it).
    • petrifying creatures (medusas, gorgons and the like): gargoyles quite often work with these creatures- if they get petrified, they just "awaken" in the next round. more importently for the gargoyle however, are the various statues and more in the place, they give it more "character". a disturbing side effect of petrifications, and the gargoyles ability to create more of their own in time, is that given enough time, the petrified creature, (allready altered superficially by the "alter stone" powers), will wake as a superbly crafted gargoyle. there is no turning back from that...
    • warforged (as they are in Eberron): though these are the rare two examples of living constructs, very little else binds them together. neither their history, mode of creation, view of the world... some warforged tried to find gargoyles and maybe learn from the more about their existence, but these efforts have been futile at best. the gargoyle either ignore them, or eventually get hostile if they keep to persist (that is if the warforged could even sense the presence of the gargoyles at all!) a very small group of warforged tries to gather gargoyles scripts from major locations (especially temple of the soverign or onatar or the traveler), believing there may be messages from their creators in them.


    - game mechanics: much of this section is not numbered (i'm crap at that), but it does give the basic idea of most things, as well as a general aspired difficulty level.

    1) type: construct. subtype: living. most of what is to follow is similar to the warforged, but there are some differences:
    • it has a consitution score.
    • it begins with 4 HD and are treated as construct for all purposes of HP, BAB and so on for these HD. any further HD are gained by class levels...
    • immune to sleep, poison, paralasys, disease and so on... (check the list where needed) not immune to mind effecting spells and abilites, subject to critical hits in varying degrees (will be explained), stunning, ability drain and so on...
    • as a live construct, the gargoyle can be affected by spells that affect objects as well as creatures. unlike the warforged though, the gargoyle is made out of stone, and is unaffected by any influences that specifically target metal or wood.
    • unlike the warforged, due to their link to positive energy, gargoyles are fully healed by either "repair" spells or "cure " spells.
    • gargoyles do posses dark vision to 60 ft.
    • gargoyles usually gain levels as favoured souls, cleric, fighters or whatever fits the theme of their structure. the clerics usually become leaders.
    • unlike other constructs, the knowlege skill needed to learn information about the gargoyles is knowledge (religion) and not (arcana).


    2) shifting states: the gargoyle's positive energy can expand and recede within the stone form, leading to 3 states. the gargoyle needs a standard action to become more awakened, but only a move action to become less... remember however that gargoyles can remain still in any state (a gargoyle planning an ambush will most likely be still in one of the awekend states) :
    • Stone sentinel: the gargyoel is indeed a statue for all purposes. all senses other than it's Guardian power are deminished (-10 to all such checks), but its "fade out" power is at it's strongest (a realy high will DC). It has the hardness of a stone statue of it's size for all purposes of attacks, if by any chance it's presence was Ascertained)
    • half- awakened: if still, it still looks like a statue (if someone senses it). when in motion, it looks like an animated object, though it acts with a bit more speed and intelligence. comapred to the fully awaekened, the movement and senses in this form are reduced (about -20ft for all forms of movment, one woorse level of flying maneuverability, about -5 to senses checks, low initiative bonus). the gargoyle does retain some hardness from the Sentinel stage (hardness 8? hardness 10?) and the DC for his "fade out" power decreasses. has moderate fortification. higher AC than fully awakened.
    • fully awakened: with the positive energy at the fore, the gargoyle looks like a creature with the color of stone, with fast mobility. (senses at normal, speed at normal, high initiative bonus) the gargole loses it's hardness as this stage, but it gains DR/ magic from the bursting energy. the DC for the "fade out" ability is the lowest here (though still challanging. for what levels? didn't try and figure this out, depending on the campaign i suppose). has light fortification.


    3)"fade out": this power was described mostly in the concept section. the main differences from the freeze ability are:
    • is is a mind effecting ability, which is resisted by a will save, not a spot.
    • if you fail the save, you don't realise the gargoyle (in whatever state it is) is there at all! you don't "see a statue that doesn't seem alive"- you don't see a statue at all!
    • this isn't invisibility, as it doesn't affect the gargoyle at all. you cannot find it by throwing bags of flower, see inviisibility, or anything of the sort. it is in your mind, and your mind alone.
    • the power is always active, and requires but that the gargoyle stays still. the gargoyle need not be aware that it is being watched. this of course, led to the gargoyles default position- still as a statue. (better safe than sorry).
    • this effect works through scrying devices and so on.


    4) rebuilding: this power has more influence on the long term, than on a single encounter. it might be relevent to explaining gargoyles battling behaviour, and to locations which the party may visit several times during the campaign.
    if a gargoyle is "killed", the energy inside it can still restore it (after all, that was just the form that was destroyed) in time. if the following conditions are met, the energy rebuilds the form at about 1-3 HP a day. the conditions are as follows:
    • a gargoyle that reaches 0Hp immediatly turns to half awakened (if its fully awakened). at -1HP or less it turns into a stone statue (not a sentinal form!) all it's powers other than this, and the "fade out" cease to function.
    • the gargoyle can sustain damage up to it's full HP+10 under the zero, before actualy dying (a gargoyle with 27 HP can go down to -37 HP before dying). as long as the gargoyle is above that limit, the energy can rebuild it.
    • for any reconstruction to succeed, the gargoyle must be in contact with worked stone.
    • if the gargoyle is not repaired in a set time (several days? weeks? depending on it's injury?) it dies.

    this power is the gargoyles most kept secret, and one that kept them alive many times. relying on this powers and their fellow gargolyes putting them somewhere safe to rebuild after the battle is over (allies get scripted warning to do so, withouty explenation), gargoyles often use suicidal tactics. one of the favorite ones is to grapple an opponent in a precarious situation (on a ledge, grapple a flyer or a swimmer, or someone being chased, or running away from a swarm or something), and then just turn to stone... the grappeled (or worse- pinned) opponent is now trapped by the statue, which may plummet from the sky, into the depths, to the side of the building or whatever, and crash, taking it's vicitm with it.

    5) guardian power: every gargoyle sustains one such power, while more powerfull gargoyles (one power for every 3 or 4 HD?), can sustain more. gargoyles seem to be able to change their powers, but the process takes time (days to weeks. this should again be relevent if the party visits the same place several times) the powers are active as long as the gargoyles is (as long as it has not been reduced to negative HP). most of the powers mimic detection or abjuration spells. sample powers (i haven't assigned CL or DC for any appropriate ones):
    • detect alignemnt/ creature type/ invisibility/ magic...
    • improved senses: the gargoyle gets a +10 on his spot, listen and search checks, and it's dark vision improves to 120 ft. unlike the other powers, these works fully in sentinal and half awakened forms.
    • tremorsense.
    • block scrying in 60 ft radius.
    • block dimensional travel in 60 ft radius.
    • dispel illusions 60 ft.


    8) positive energy link: gargoyles feel any channeling of positive energy within 60 ft. of them. a gargoyle can try to draw that enrgy to itself as an immediate action (the gargoyle fort save against the channeler's will save). a gargoyle aware of the presence of a channeler, can ready it's action to draw upon the energy. if that is the case the attempt succeeds immediatly. the gargoyle must have line of sight to the channeler. if the drawing attempt succeeds:
    • if it was a cure spell, it heals the gargoyle instead of the intended target. the gargoyle can gain temporary HP in this manner, beyond it's regular limit.
    • if it was any other spell using positive energy, it heals the gargoyle as if it was a cure spell of the same level, instead of it's normal affect on the target.
    • if it was a use of "turn undead", it is instead converted to a healing spell of a level equell to half of the strongest undead turned. the turning attempt is nullified of course.


    7) gargoyle script: as mentioned before, it is extremeley difficult to decipher this. if the gargoyle/s were asked a specific question about the structure/ place it/ they are attached to, the answer is the equivalent of a Legend Lore spell. if the questions is about some other topic, the answer could also mimic the concept of Legend Lore, but with less accurate results (as the DM sees fit). the problem comes when trying to decipher it:
    the DC to the check should be fairly high, but some information can be gained from less than a perfect result. the check is an intelligence check, where 5 points in any relevant knowledge skill grant +2, and knowledge of any sufficiently "archaic/ mysterios" language grants a +1. (for the DM discretion). or if the DM wish, give them a coded message, in several codes, interchanging- an appropriate language breaks one of the codes.

    8) variant forms: i only dealt with the main issues i could think of- movement (the figures refer to the awakened state), size, and what makes them different:
    • Humanoind gargoyles: speed 40 ft. fly 60 (average). those with class levels usually use tools, though not many. (sword, wands and so on)
    • Lion Gargoyles: speed 60 ft. large size (as a horse), fly 40 ft. (poor). Pounce. Roar (burst radius, save fort or be stunned for 1-4 rounds).
    • Draconic Gargoyles: size large- huge. speed 60 ft. fly 150 poor. can use any dragon attacks for their size. Spell Resistence, perhaps also resitence 10 to some sort of energy.
    • Serpentine Gargoyles: size large- huge speed 60 ft. fly 100 (poor). tremorsense, swallow whole, imporved grappel and constrict.
    • Aquatic Gargoyles: usually smilar to humanoid or draconic gargoyles. the same except having a swim speed equel to their base speed.
    • Spider/ Marilian gargoyles: based solely on the humanoid version. speed 60,climb 40 . can use all hands without hindrance.
    • Collosal/ Ancient Gargoyles: i have no stats to them (it would be like statting a fortress) my suggestions are to make each fairly unique, it's Guardian powers affecting all of it. maybe have creatures living it it/ on it. i imagine its hardness and other powers should be considerably higher, except for may the "fade out", which shouldn't realy come into play with this kind of creature.


    - mysteries and the unknown: gargoyles, and there pieced-together mind are themselves a mystery. their strange connection to buildings and areas is a bit creepy, and worrying, but so is their seeming connection with other sources of information, or conciousness.
    gargoyles however are also a reservoir of information and mysteries. their wealth of information made many a scholar loose his bearing and original purpose. their enigmatic scriblling and writing maybe holding secrets in itself.
    gargoyles in a way present an achievment gone too far- a skillfull slave that wouldn't stay a slave. some even speculate that these former servents, are not as innocent and disinterested in the world as some may think. inflitrating everwhere, slowly building more, and more, sedning themselves everywehre...how many gargoyles are out there? hundreds? thousands? hundreds of thousands? how would you know exactly, when you can't even count the ones in your roof? why are you staring at me like that! i saw at least.. wait a minute, i though i saw... i was sure... hey, weren't there some statues up there? ah, forget about it! just been a long day, i forgot what i was talking about...

    (continued on the next post)
    Last edited by Kol Korran; 2008-04-23 at 04:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Playing, at a D&D table near you!

    - "statue surprises you and goes grrr!" i thought to begin with a revisit to the old basic gargoye encoutner and see how it changed... now imagine our group of adventurers doing what they do best- going through an old ruined temple, and beign the good guys they are, they do not forget to grab anything with a twinkel in it. any opposition? why, they disposed of it as soon as they saw it! coming to the main hall, they prepared, ready for the big fight, they then entered the hall, metting the horrible... emptiness?
    what the hell? moving cuitously forward, they immediatly begin trying to find the hidden danger. the wizard and clerci cast a few divination spells, while the rogue searches ahead. "oy, nothing here but some strange writing!". the cleric and wizard come close, trying to check the writing, maybe for a clue, while the rogue checks for traps around the big statue in the middle. "stop!" cries the fighter "i bet it will come alive! a freaking big statue of it's god or something! you 3 take cover while i hack it down, prepare to help!"
    the others take position away from the intimidating sculpture, as the fighter start trashing it. "the writings don't make sense, just a bunch of gibberish like we found before" says the wizard, as suddenly the cleric goes pale. "what's the matter he askes the cleric, who just noticed their "cover" were 2 gargoyles, who suddenly launch at them. as they start to fight, the fighter turns, and rusn at them, when a huge chunk of stone falls on him from the top of the statue. and that chunk of stone has teeth...
    ok, enough cinema- a few things that can be importent to these situations- fisrt of course, is the "fade out of memory", that gives thegargoyles a real element of surprise. as a DM remember the gargoyles must be still for this to work, so position them in advance, and don't move them to suit your needs. gargoyles are patient, and can wait till circumstances fit their needs, but they are anot all seeing and all planning. if the gargoyles had time to watch the party, they will be able to prepare a good enough ambush somewhere. gargoyles prefer one definitive ambush, over a few sporadic ones.

    second- various states. the half awakened and fully awakened states give you two kinds of challanges at once- one fast, with DR/magic, while the other slower, but with hardness and better protection. the gargoyles can switch between the states, and use the best one. don't forget that in the semi awakened state the gargoyle wiegh as much as stone, and can use it to it's advantage (such as falling on the fighter). the fortification makes them problematic for the rogue. the fact that it's not heavy fortification makes the sneakattacks still worthwhile..

    as the battle continued, the fighter drew the gargoyles attention, but he was being bled out slowly. the cleric cleared a path to him "here, let me heal you". but as soon asthe cleric mumbled the words, one of the other gargoyles, the one thefighter nearly beat, suddenly glowed, the crackes medning..
    third- the gargoyles ability to draw upon positive energy makes every long battle more hazardeous. and this is but healing, gargoyles are esepcially hazardeous with other creatures, especially the undead.

    one of the gargoyles reached the wizard, no matter what it threw at him. ait grabbed him, grappeled for a few seconds, and tunred to stone. the wizards cursed, not beign able to get it's hands loose.
    fourth- the "turn to stone" ability cna be tough with grappling, but twice as dangerous when flying, climbing, swimming and more.

    "lets get out of here! we killed over half, we'll get to town and regroup, next time it will be easier!"
    fifth- the rebuiliding means that though that may be ture, if they wait too long then it is not... the gargoyles could be back to full strength (or at least more than the group expects) also, they might change their guardiapowers to fit the situation.

    - "him? i don't know, it just joiend us one day. doesn't speak much, but he's a hell of a nightwatch!" at soem point of the party's adventures, it is watched by a roaming gargoyle the party shows character similar to the structure he left, and so it decides to join them for awhile. the idea here is to join the party with a unique cohort, which may not be entirely easy to deal with. first of all, at times it disappears, and you don't find it until you sit on it! it doesn't talk, just writes all that stuff or does the hand signals, and the cleric is getting a bit testy with it. oh, and not to forget- why is he with us anyway? i never got a clear answer.
    a gargoyle, though not fitting to be a PC due to mentality and more, would make a very interesting (and also effective) cohort. it provides the party with roleplay opportunities, valuable abilities (consturct, positive link against enemy clerics, and more), and plot hooks (figuriong out where it came, deciphering warnings and omens in it's script, guaridan abilites finding something, and of course finding it a premenant structure).

    - "guys, someone broke in! lets find Gregor!" (sorry, couldn't think of a better name). in continuation to the previous encounter, if the party ever settles into a major base of operations (small manor, fortress, keep, whether "liberated" by the party or gained in less violent ways), why not add a gargoyle or two to the mix? in could either be the former cohort, or a new gargoyle who just got in, or a previos "occupant" that jsut hadn't revealed itself to the former residents... again, this is mainly for roleplayin applications, but the gargoyles, as a skilled guardian, can also provide plothooks if the players abode is ever broken into. like a stealthy security camera, Gregor probably seen it all...

    - safer than a Khundarak safe: (that was an Eberron reference). at some adventure or campaign, some place needs to be guarded realy well. instead of numerous spells and traps that could be thwarted by the right magic or rogue skill, the protector seeks the help of gargoyles (he either contacts them through some other gargoyle, or they might have been part of the place anyway. anywhere with gargoyle script is a good place to start).

    the idea here is to incorporate gargoyles as part of a place's security measures. in this role the gargoyles will mostly be detectors and blockers, usign their guardian powers rather than their combat abilities. the gargoyles can also be resetters of traps, activators of mechanisms and more. spread them out, and wisely. if the gargoyles know of the party, they will prepare.

    -cheap oracle, who writes in gibberish: the Gargoyle script can be used as part of a murder mystery, prophetic event, or whatever. if you enable your players access to some gargoyles (like their freidn Gregor), you in fact give them access to an elaborate, cryptic form of Legend Lore. this may especially appeal to problem solvers/ decoders. as always with puzzles- don't make it the only way to solve the problem, but have it bemeaningfull enough.

    -sanctuary: a ruin that harbors enough gargoyles may well function as a sanctuary, or a safe neutral zone: the few encoutners with gargoyles ensure the place is far less barren then it seems (and you can never trust what you see with gargoyles) andthe various power of the gargoyles make it very hard to snake in undetected, or to scry/ teleoport in with suprise. (in fact, it just might be that this sort of enutrality, safety, is the idea behind the place, or the ruin/ structure, making the gargoyles especially devout to it.

    the party, perhaps accompanying or accompanied by allies arrive here to meet with their enemies, or to negotiate wit hpotential allies (as long as things feel tense). the presence of the gargoyles serves to restrain violence, and so many highly interestign and tense roleplaying situations can occur here.
    alternentavly, you could also have one of the side make some transgression against the code of the place (the transgression can be hidden or not, intentional or not, it may matter... or not). suddenly, the entire silent places burst with the awekening of hundreds of gargoyles! the party may need to make a breakthrough, they might need to save someone caught in another part of the place, or it might even need to fight shoulder to shoulder with their enemey to get out of here!. this is especailly fit for levels when small groups no longer matter, but big groups of gargoyles do.
    i suggest to use a varied mix of gargoyles here, unless you allread\y have other species in alliegance with the gargoyles, providign them assistance.
    (for some reason imagine an old desert ruin, home to a clan of Janni and the gargoyles, where two army leaders, with large retinues coem to meet).

    -Gargoyles falling from the sky! gargoyles are also effective as flying troops in wars. if a temple succeeds in convincign some to join the cause, then it has gotten some valuable allies. gargoyles usually hamper far stronger flying troops by the simple tactic of grappling with them and then turning to stone.the added weight either complicates flight for the flyer, or just brings it down! gargoyles usually crush from the fall, but the priests and cleric later collect the pieces and lay them at a small stone alter dragged by a cart especially fot his purpose.
    another tactic, used mainly against siege engines and for terro effect, as to have the gargoyles fly above the designated target, and then plumtt to it turning to stone. they usually wreck havoc, but gargoyles don't use this a lot, since it may means their remains may be behind enemy lines.
    gargoyles are intelligent troops and will use whatever tactic is efficiend and needed. their common rotections make them amazingly good against normal troops, and they are soemtiems used so...

    - distant relatives: i haven't mentioned the other variant of gargoyles, since they can still fit most scenes, with slight variations. a lion gargoyle can be a mount cohort, draconic gargoyles are even more impressive at downing flyers than the humanoids are, and so on. the importent thing about the variants, is to both show their difference, and that they are still, basically, gargoyles, not some other kind of construct... make sure the basic features of behaviour stay the same, and then vary and alter as you like!

    -ancient gargoyles: these are not so much a creature than it is a location. i would recommend not to put more than one of these in a campaign, and even then with a good reason. the main contributions of them to the gaming expeirence are first- the matter of size, feeling very small against this massive creature. second- "living scenery"- the gargoyle isalive, and it's "alter stone" works in a larger scale. the place should feel vibrat, with a purpose, with a pulse (as far as this term can be used). third- usually the moving living fortress is part of something epic, and this serves to make it unique.

    - in conclusion: i am fairly sure i had more encounter ideas, but i can't remember them. anyway- this makeover of the gargoyle had given it a unique place i nthe world of constructs, as well as some niches and roles in other game areas. though the current gargoyle has a more "specialized" taste (at least to me), i do think it's playability has increased significantly.

    i hoep to hear your opinions, comments and so on. the last threads realy seemed to have gone unnoticed ("faded from awareness?") except for a few choice readers who strengthened my hands. thanks in advance,
    Kol

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    I like it, I might have to use a gargoyle or two in my campaign now...

    've been enjoying these and it's inspired me to try my hand at one. It's posted over in homebrew, because #1 I think these things will get more exposure there than here, and #2 because I decided focusing on changing the Wight into a Template, which is fairly stat-heavy and works as a proper homebrew.

    Here's the thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78429
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    I liked what Diablo game 1 did with them: created to repel demons from buildings, were brought to life by evil demonic magic and started attacking those they were created to protect.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2008-04-20 at 03:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    This is great. Keep up the good work.
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Throw a four-armed mutant gargoyle against a group of PCs. Laugh at their expressions as it lands 4 claw attacks, a bite attack, rends them, and gores them with its horn. Gotta love the Tomb of Horrors.
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    I think the whole "maligned, forgotten" thing depends on your DM. My current DM loves gargoyles, and has thrown three of them at us in as many sessions. I expect to keep seeing them. Just because your DM doesn't use them doesn't mean that they're underutilized in the community as a whole.
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    You might have officially convinced me to change my campaign setting drastically to accommodate a complex of mysterious and ancient ruins that takes up half the map. Thanks a lot :P
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Obviously great and intresting new view on the Gargoyle. This has already been mentioned.
    You wanted a better name for the ability that makes others overlook them (fade out of memory). There is a clan in Vampire the Masquerade that are really ugly, infact humans who see them usually scream in terror, wich can be a problem when you are trying to hide the fact vampires exist.
    So the clan has the ability exactly like yours, called obfuscation that lets everyone kinda miss the fact they are there.

    Otherwise I can't really think of anything to add or change.

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Great. I'm going to use this incarnation of gargoyle from now on. Now I'll go read those other threads I skipped because not caring about them critters, cos you've done a very good job.

    Fade Out is a simple and straight name. Obfuscate also fits. See Me Not is a Pratchetian (though unrelated to gargoyles) clause that might be good.
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    wow! thanks for the feedback all!

    bats of chaos: checked your wight template out- quite cool! i always though that most undead should be templates, for preety much the same reasons you mentioned (why can't ogres be made into ghouls, shadows, spectres and so on after all?). i just never had th patience to sit down and crunch numbers (i kinda suck at that...). thanks for doing the work, and supporting the general theme! (i'll add the link to this thread and others, if you don't mind).
    i put my threads here and not on the homebrew because i'm more focused on the fluff and the generl gaming experince, other than the mechanics.

    Talya: i knew there was some inspiration i forgot to mention! saw only a few of the series episodes, but it seemed well built, with a solid story and characters. thanks for the reminder from my past...

    senrath: there are multy handed gargoyles in the thread- the mysterious Spider/Marilian gargoyles. only they have 6 hands...

    ascention: first- i didn't mean to offend. my own take on which monsters are "maligned, forgotten" and so on stems solely from my gaming expeirnce, as well as talks with fellow DMs, things i've seen on forums and so on. if other DMs use these creatures more, more power to them. in case you haven't noticed- i didn't try to besmirch these critters, i tried to show how magnificentthey can be to other DMs who didn't think of them, given a little (ok, a lot) of work.

    khanderas and cnsvnc:i think i'll use the fade out name from now on. it just sounds easier to remember and pronounce than obfuscation to me...

    to all the other: again, thanks. to those who will utilise the new gargoyles (or any other creature) on any of their games, have fun, and let us know how they turned out to be.
    Kol.

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    savage species had a wight template, not sure if its usuable in 3.5. and does not allow for non-humanoid wight.

    I still think it might be funny to add template to a cachalot whale "Its a wight whale, men!"
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2008-04-25 at 07:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    Kol: By all means, add it in! It'd be appreciated.

    Hamishspence: That's awesome. I wonder how my take (as I was unaware of a preexisting Wight Template) compares to an official take. Might have to do a bit of browsing next time I'm at ye olde game shoppe.
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    Default Re: Ode to the Maligned, forgotten... (Gargoyles- more than a roof top decoration)

    ok, first of all- corrected most of the spelling and grammer mistakes and such (didn't realise there were so many. and i thought my dislexia wasn't as bad...). i apologize to all who had to descipher it all (my own form of Gargoyle script i guess), and commend your determination. the "official" name of the gargoyle's ability is Fade Out...

    second- batsof chaos: added your link.

    third, and the actual topic of this post, meant mostly for those who read the former creations: how to incorporate the gargoyles with the creatures on those threads. this could probaby go into Interactions or Playing at a table near you, but it since it wouldn't make sense to those who didn't read those threads, then i thought to put it seperatly here:

    -Stirges: the stirges can't realy feed upon the gargoyles- too hard a skin (when in stone or half awakened state), and too much of a DR on awakened state. besides, what would they drink- mortar? however, these two creatures can coexist in quite a beneficial manner.

    stirges usually supplement the guardianship of Ruin gargoyles, and Feral ones: when the gargoyles swoop to attack, so do the stirges from their hiding places! as the intruders (read: adventuring party) tries to deal with the stone guardians, the blood sucking opportunists swoop for a quikc meal. the situation might get mroe severe if a restoration spell is needed, since the gargoyle's positive energy link greatly complicate the succesful casting of such spell in mid combat.

    gargoyles usually don't mind the stirges presence, since they usually pose no threat or opposition for the structures they guard. Feral gargoyles even help them, altering stone cleft a bit to create better nests and so on... but all in all, the gargoyles seem faily oblivious to these creatures, benefiting from their presence when in battle, but not caring much otherwise.

    there is a peculiar excpetion though- when the gargoyles is allied with a temple dedicated to gods who demand much blood letting, sacrifices and such, the gargoyles of the place may actually cultivate stirges, building complicated nests and small tunnels through the building. no one knows exactly why this is so, but some believe this stems from the gargoyles own interpertation of the building's purpose and character...

    -BloodLust Swarms: an entirely different matter are these devestating swarms. here, the main interaction is with City gargoyles, but this time as opposers. small farming communities have usually relied upon the local temples and churches to protect them from these horrors. when BloodLust swarms appear, the inhabitants of the area run to the the temple, and baricade themselves in. now, is the time of the temple's defenders- the gargoyles, to take care of the swarm. the gargoyles are uniquely suited for this, unaffected of the swarm abilites other than the damage. (and even for that, they rely on their Rebuilding for afterwards. many commoners tell of their frightfull night in the church's hall, hearign the maddened flattewring and humming of wings outside, and the inhuman shrieks of the battlign statues (who some people suspected, but never actually knew, were there).

    at some incidents in hotory however, cultists of dark or destructive gods, intentionally sabotaged or destroyed the gargoyles beforehand. if doen secretly, many temples didn't learn about it till it was far too late...

    - stone giants: workers of natural stone on one side, and worked sotne on the other, gargoyles and stoen giants never realy got along together... they also rarely met due to the vastly different habitats... however, ruin, roaming and feral gargoyles have crossed paths with stoen giant communities or migration parties on occasion. the gargoyles prefer to use their Fade out powers, knowing that the giants are far more superior to them strength wise, but there had been some serious clashes at times.

    gargoyles usually display soem great emotion towards Watchers- hate, caring, and more. almost if they think of it as some other gargoyle. however, their attempts to alter it, adding gargoyle runes, changing the face and more are definetly not appreciated by the stone giants, who fevereshly hunt down gargoyles who stumlbe into their territory, perhaps for this exact reason. some scholars theorise there might be a connection between the crafting of the gargoyles, and the creating of Watchers, even their purpose is similar.

    -In Thunder's Step groups: the ThunderClaps stone giants are more sociable than their kin, even to gargoyles, but to an extent. usually when such a group travles through a place known for it's ruins, or visits a local inhabited by gargoyles, they offer a deal- news, or other goods for the protection the gargoyle might offer. the gargoyles themselves seem to recognise the group as some sort of a religious pilgrimage, and are more willing to converse with it/ let it pass.

    when dealing with other non giant races, ThunderClaps (in their role as emmiseries) sometime choose a meeting place heavily populated by gargoyles (as i described above, in the "Sanctuary" encounter), to reduce possible hostilities.

    one unconfirmed rumor tells that gargoyles take a great pleasure from the storms created by the Held Storm, and that this must be part of the payment the gargoyles recieve for whatever deals they broker with the ThunderClaps. this is particularily odd considering that they almost exclusively create these storms in places of religious importence for sommon stone giants... where no gargoyle would venture..

    -Yeth Hounds: (i'm taking a bit of creative liberty Prometheus): similar to the stirges, there is no realy special connection between the species, but there are at times interesting interactions. Feral gargoyles sometime hunt with Yeth Hounds, where they drive creatures to it, and then it surprises them. this is especially true is swamps and similar areas, where the Yeth hound drives the victims to the water's edge, and then the gargoyle leaps, grabs it, and then sink, turning to stone. Yeth hounds seem to revel in the horror of the drowning victim.

    some of the Feral's use their alter stone powers to help modify the Yeth Hounds lair, make it a maze of curves, pitfalls and more. Spider/ Marilian gargoyles seem to be attracted to the yeth hounds mroe than others.

    at times of war, when yeth hounds and gargoyles may be on opposite sides (Gargoyles usually on a mission for a temple, yeth hounds trained or subdued somehow by someone). the Yeth hounds may work as terror groups, while the gargoyles main just is to knock them down of the sky (mostly by their usuall method of "hug, pertify self, crash to ground". Draconic and serpentine gargoyles however use more conventional methods.)

    another odd instance, similar to the stirges again, is when a gargoyle inahbit a temple or a place dedicated to fear. if a yeth hound arrives, the gargoyles may take effort to make it's stay more comfy, more pleasurable as well..

    - Barghest: Barghest are not the only devine protectors of the goblinoid races. goblins of the past created gargoyles to, and some of their templas sport them. (in Eberron it is estiamted the Dhakann empire was responsible for many of the gargoyles present in Khorvaire today). but there is no special animosity amongst them. the Barghest cannot identify them by it's life sense, and cannot feed upon them. this in some ways, ease the realtions between the species.

    the Barghest's need for secrecy, inquisitive mind, protective powers, and well known reputation for honoring deals (through debt stones), make it an ideal partner. many gargoyles seek ruin gargoyles, or offer deals for roaming gargoyles, for mutual protection. the gargoyle may also make a deal with some gargoyles not in it's own whereabout, to function as observers, and security for a deal making meeting... (again, as in "sanctuary"). both creatures are often reliable, and through the centuries many gargoyles found some comfort in the presence of the ellusive stone sentinels..

    Barghest however use the gargoyles as another resource, a resource of information- a Barghest is usually familar with many languages, and at least some knowledge skills. a Barghest may spend days going over some Gargoyle script, deschipering it. soem time it is for the Barghest own use, but sometime the information is a bargaining card for more deals. indeed, at some places (usualyl rural ones, and with heavy goblinoid populations), the Barghest establishes itself as a sort of an oracle...

    Barghests, through their long experience with gargoyles, have learned to deal with their odd personalities, wierd mindset, and off-key intepertations. Barghests, out of the various species who tried to communicate with gargoyles, and make them do as they are told, are definetly one of the most succesfull, subtly manipulative...

    all of the above however refer to natural Brghests, not Extraplanar ones, who have no special experience with the gargoyles. these Barghests usually relentless uncontrolled behaviour and hunger brings them to a confrontation with the Barghests soon enough.

    - Wights: (batsofchaos, i'm taking some liberties here as well, feel free to comment) the wights being intelligent undead, the gargoyles usually don't mind them that much (Fade out still affects them, and the energy drain can't hurt the gargoyles), unless they come into conflict with the gargoyles (or the buildings) cause.

    there have been known to be cases in the past, where wight population grew alarmingly, that many temples requested their gargoyles to wage war against them, and destory them. and indeed, for some odd reason (perhaps the work of the secret society mentioend in the thread) gargoyles then sought and hunted wights, by great ammounts.

    but as said before- gargoyle align themsleves to numerous goals and purposes. gargoyles have been seen fighting with wight on occasion, though not in an orderly manner, usually in ruins and such. the combination tend to be devestating. (cleric can't rebuke without the gargoyle intefering, and if a gargoyle grapples and turn to stone, the wight had as easy target).

    on a few occasions though, wights and gargoyles were joiend in purpose. this was usually under the leadership of a death/ necromancy influenced religion (in Eberron, the most notable is Blood of Vol), or guarding a tomb and such. the various forms of both "species", their "immortality", relentlesness, various and more make any structured coalition between them a thing to be feared (a wight dragon riden by a humanoid gargoyle, or vice versa. a cavalry of lion gargoyles and wight riders of various species, or vice versa, and more). the gargoyles usually takes the role of defender and neutralizer, while the wight is the offensive, the killer...

    ok, that is all, hope it sparked a few more ideas. and i realy hope i didn't make too many mistakes this time (it takes long to write it, and long to repair it). let me know what you think.

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