Wizard Challenge 2

[Ramos]

As Nalthain is flying over the vast Rang'Shada mountain range, he sees a tiny black speck in the distance. As he pauses to observe the strange sight, the black speck seems to turn towards his general position...

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I am using your own intro-no need to change it since the intro is immaterial in a challenge. Please post your active spells in your first post too.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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Active Spells at CL 23, CL 27 against dispels extended:
Duration of 46 hours
All shared with Familiar, except Greater Anticipate Teleport and Detect Scrying.

Hoard Gullet
Create Magic Tattoo +1 CL version
Create Magic Tattoo +2 competence to Attack
Heart of Air
Heart of Water
Greater Magic Weapon (on Dagger)
Heart of Earth
Dragonsight
Heart of Fire
Greater Anticipate Teleport
Cloak of the the Sun
Magic Aura to disguise Greater Anticipate Teleport Aura, Kiss of Draconic Defiance Aura, and Detect Scyring
Superior Resistance
Detect Scrying
Mindblank
Elemental Body Fire
Elemental Body Water
Elemental Body Earth
Elemental Body Air

Active Spells Persisted using Metamagic Effect, CL 23, 27 against dispels Duration of 24 hours:
Ray Deflection
Greater Blink
Greater Heroism
True Seeing
As the Frost
Energy Immunity Acid
Energy Immunity Sonic
Fiend Form into a Dretch
Kiss of Draconic Defiance
Ironguard
Ghostform
Superior Invisibility
Veil of Undeath
Foresight
Shapechange
Greater Dimensional Jumper

All Shared with my Familiar except Ghost Form.

Currently in the form of Elder Air Elemental, so is Familiar:

This means: Str 22 Dex 39 Con 24 DR 10/-

My buffs give me comprehensive immunities to many attacks, if you don't mind letting me know what I am hit with, so I can tell if I am immune to it that would be great.

Important other things:
Senses:
Blindsense 115ft
Mindsight (does not require LoE, identifies creature type and Int score) 100ft
Darkvision 230ft
True Seeing

Kiss of Draconic Defiance is a 40ft emanation (masked with Magic Aura) that forces a DC 31 Will save before any enemy spellcaster can cast spells within it. Once they succeed, they ignore the effect. Enemy is defined by me as anyone other then myself and my familiar. Not Shared with Familiar.

Character stats in Elemental Form:
Init: +36
110ft Perfect Fly
AC: 41, Touch 25, Flat-Footed 27 including Air Mastery
Ranged Touch +29

I'm going to be casting many spells modified by the Invisible metamagic.It's your decision whether this renders creatures I summon invisible, and to what extent.

Also, there are a series of spells, Heavenly Host/Abyssal Army/Hellish Horde, that call a series of outsiders to your command over a period of time. These called beings would still be able to summon more creatures (though this would be a summon, so no summoning after that) would you consider me to have control over the summoned creatures? The spells are very weak and mostly just for the fun of it.

Furthermore, if you want to change that black spec in the distance to something that can detect my Superior Invisibilitied/Ghost Formed self, that's fine by me. (Assuming it doesn't have True Seeing).

As part of my buffing I need to roll theses:
(1d20)[6]
(1d20)[19]
(1d20)[5]

If none of them are ones everything above is accurate and I maintain one use of Metamagic effect.

Seeing the spec, Nal waits to see what it is more clearly.

Spot (1d20+20)[22]
Knowledge Arcana (1d20+43)[52]
Knowledge Architecture (1d20+19)[25]
Knowledge Dungeoneering (1d20+41)[43]
Knowledge Geography (1d20+19)[29]
Knowledge History (1d20+43)[57]
Knowledge Local (1d20+19)[30]
Knowledge Nature (1d20+20)[21]
Knowledge Religion (1d20+19)[20]
Knowledge Nobility (1d20+19)[30]
Knowledge The Planes (1d20+43)[46]

[Ramos]

As the black speck comes closer a massive (as in Gargantuan) black dragon can be seen flying closer and closer with immense speed. Its skull-like head turning left and right, eyes glowing green, it seems to be searching for something. Nalthain remembers one of the reasons the young silver dragon wanted to speak with him was a certain dire threat to the immediate region-so there is a good chance the dragon is not looking for him specifically but rather any kind of tasty morsel that also has a substantial amount of treasure it can... acquire.

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Why do your spells count as CL 27 against being dispelled? BTW, roll initiative. The dragon is 300 ft away.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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Nevermind about the calling question, it's actually summoning. Totally sucky, but I'll still try it for fun.

The CL is from a Ring of Enduring Arcana which provides a +4 CL against dispels to all your spells cast while wearing it.

No information about the Dragon from my knowledge checks? I mean, Arcana is my best one. (That's what's used fro Dragons right?)

Init: (1d20+36)[45]

Nal smiles at the sight of the Dragon, wondering why such a pitiful thing could be a threat to anyone. (He's not overconfident at all. )

Shifting form quickly to a faster form (Choker) Nal taps into his memory, and pulls forth the a spell he has been meaning to cast for some time. Nal calls forth an Abyssal Army. Though it is probably not going to defeat the dragon on their own, it will at least be entertaining to watch them fight it out. Then he prepares himself to overcome the defenses of the creature. Further using his speed, he summons forth a Dark Sword, and allows it to begin attacking the Dragon.

As a full-round action, casts Abyssal Army, summoning (immediately) 2d4 dretches, then 10 minutes later 1d4 Baubaus, then 10 minutes later 1 Vrock. Targeted on the ground beneath the Dragon. Then he uses a Swift action to Spontaneously channel an Assay Resistance. Directly in front of it he casts Sword of Darkness, which makes an attack at the dragon. Both spells are Invisible. You decide what that means for summoned Monsters, but the Sword should be attacking flat-footed unless he has some way of seeing invisible, not that it probably matters, since it will likely miss on everything but a threatened critical. And the attack role should be one higher, it should be at +23.

(2d4)[6]

Attack roll for Sword (1d20+22)[36]
Spell resist check if needed (1d20+35)[45]
Damage 1 negative level and -2 penalty to next saving throw.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Now that I know how many Dretches, I want each to summon a Stinking Cloud centered on the Dragon, and to then move apart, spreading into a circle.

[Ramos]

Nal's Abyssal Army spell surprises the dragon as dretches appear in the mountain's slopes below him and surround him with noxious fumes. What is even more surprising is the abrupt flash of magic as some spell is employed against him-and shatters without effect.

Nal realises his Assay Resistance spell did not help against the dragon at all for some reason-possibly a ward against divinations. What's worse, the dragon does not appear to have been impeded by the stinking cloud spells the dretches used and is diving towards him with the great speed only a dragon can muster.

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Dragon is some 100 ft from you, taking a double move to fly around and follow the residual auras. As for your knowledge checks, just look up the Wurm Black Dragon in the SRD. Some things are definitely changed but those won't be revealed by knowledge checks.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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Assay resistance has a Range of Personal and a Target of You, and doesn't effect the opposing creature at all. It just gives me a bonus. I can think of nothing in the entire game that would negate it's bonus to me.

That said, did you view the sword's failure as spell resistance or something else? (Nor would the blade shatter in any case from Spell resistance/Deathward, ect.)

Please let me know about those things.

[Ramos]

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Many divinations have a range of personal and a target of you or creature touched and a range of touch. These include-but are not limited to-Arcane Sight (and greater arcane sight), See Invisibility, True Seeing, Sacred Sight, Assay Resistance. You should also note that Assay Resistance does not give a bonus on SR checks-but a bonus against a specific creature whom you must be able to see. That definitely counts as "employing a divination against a creature". Add to that the fact that nondetection stops half a dozen other divinations that are personal (see list above for the most common) and it is clear that Nondetection works against Assay Resistance.

As for the sword, yeah, it bursts.

If the sword is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled.

And yes, it is from SR that it fails-despite being an "effect" spell and not a "targetted" spell (in targetted spells you know why they fail right away) the bursting from SR is sort of a giveaway.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Well if you are going to use Dragon CL cheese to basically set me up against an epic spellcaster, I'm going to have to break out the big guns.

Nal will move forward 45 ft to be withing 55ft of the Dragon. (His Familiar with mirror his movement.)

He will then use a Standard action to Disjunction the Dragon in such a way that he is not included in the area, after which he will use his second standard action to fire off An Orb. After which he will expend a Swift Action to Activate Belt of Battle, giving himself a full round action that he will use to fire off both Ocular Rays.

All of these spells are invisible, I reserve the right to change any actions based on anything that occurs before hand.

All magic protections stripped: DC 31 Will save for all items.

Attacks at touch AC: Each doing the standard 90 corrupt damage, 90 cold damage that ignores resistance and does 50 percent to immune creatures. And additional damage dice.

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Orb1 attack role: (1d20+20)[22]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[118]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[113]

Orb2 attack role: (1d20+20)[21]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[118]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[116]

Orb3 attack role: (1d20+20)[37]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[123]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[118]

Orb4 attack role: (1d20+20)[36]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[118]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[117]

Orb5 attack role: (1d20+20)[26]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[114]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[107]

Orb6 attack role: (1d20+20)[37]
Cold damage: (8d6+90)[130]
Corrupt Damage: (7d6+90)[125]

And a DC 27 Fort save or dazed for one round on each orb that hits.

[Ramos]

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Actually, his CL is 19 without buffs (practiced spellcaster) and his spellcasting level is 15-just what you'd expect from a Wurm Black Dragon. It was a case of low rolling vs the nondetection, the rolls are in the rolling thread.

BTW, celerity, dragon takes a move action well out of range. He's dazed as is normal-now you can change the rest of your actions as well as post an extra round. And your spells are invisible-but not to arcane sight.

As Nal casts a Disjunction at the dragon, the dragon's form blurrs and he reappears two hundred feet away, the disjunction missing.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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My mistake, I was under the impression you would tell me to make a CL check not make it for me, and that the only reason you didn't was because the Dragon's CL was high enough to make it impossible to succeed, (IE 34 using Draconomicon feats).

And I was just specifying Invisible spells on principle, not actually that he wouldn't be able to see it.

That said you have expressed a rather interesting interpretation of both Disjunction (and in fact all effect spells) and immediate actions. Not one I would use, but just fine as far as things go. I wonder how you would have interpreted my 8th level alternative to Disjunction.

After the Dragon's blurred movement, Nal breaks into a smile. He expends a Swift action to restore his Disjunction to it's slot, then takes his remaining full round action to double move back to within 45ft (140ft, will use move action of next round if needed for 210ft perfect speed) Familiar shadows movement in Air Elemental Form using 110ft perfect fly speed.

Perhaps this Dragon might be challenge after all. Then again, perhaps not. (Just in character thinking no reflection on you.)

From his vantage point behind the creature he let's lose the Disjunction all over again, then expends his second action to fire an Orb, followed by his swift to activate his belt, firing off both Rays from his eyes.

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The Disjunction is recovered by Archmage's vest. Double move + Move should get me there easily. Did you take into account the dragon's clumsy speed? Has he buffed himself to better? Would I notice if he had? How far away exactly was he? Within my Medium range of 330ft? My Close Range of 80ft plus a move action of 70ft? If he had to go past me, I could probably get one more standard action in.

After that, pretty much repeat exactly what I did last round. We can even use the same roles. Though I did forget that each Orb also bestows one negative level on hitting (no save). Anyway, I stop shooting if he dies.

[Ramos]

Nal closes in on the dragon and at the range of his true seeing, the real nature of his adversary becomes apparent. It is an illusion...

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Does the vest of the archmage get many uses per day or just one?

Oh, and that's a dirty trick I learned in a wizard duel. Ofcourse, I was one the receiving end of it.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Well let's see:

1) Can you tell me what I do see? True seeing does pierce it no matter what, unless you are going by the Non-detection makes True-seeing show nothing ruling. In which case you probably shouldn't have even mentioned it.

2) I was within 50ft earlier, so a description of what my Mindsense/Blindsense/True Seeing enhanced Sight tells me would be nice.

3) Unless I get any more real information, still going to hit him with a Disjunction. Or are you saying that he's not real (as opposed to hiding his true form) in which case I would have known that before ever firing off even the first Disjunction since I was well within True Seeing range.

4) I was referring to the fact that:

a) Disjunction is instantaneous, it doesn't go towards the enemy it just appears where you direct it. That's all. There is no possible way to know it is about to effect you until after it has effected you.

b) Immediate actions can be taken when it isn't your turn, but there is some question if they can occur in the middle of an action or if they have to be used before an action or after it. Before I cast the spell, they don't know it's coming. After I cast the spell, it's too late.

This is especially true of Instantaneous spells that are created at their location. If something doesn't exist, and then suddenly exists and effects you, there really is no time in there where you both know it is coming and it hasn't already had it's effect.

Your interpretations are fine, just not the most common ones I've seen.

5) The Vest has 3 uses a day. I can cast 10 9th level spells if I so choose.

[Ramos]

1) All your divinations/sense enhancements tell you that is an illusion. They reveal nothing more than the illusion of a dragon. Wether such divinations are actually functioning (nondetection and stuff) I am obviously not going to tell.

2) Earlier all your divinations were telling you that this was a real dragon. They revealed no illusion/concealment at all. Wether such divinations were actually functioning (nondetection and stuff) I am obviously not going to tell.

3) No, I've taken into account your divinations. Before, they told you there was nothing to see except for a real dragon. Now they tell you there is nothing to see except for an illusory dragon.

4) Rules-wise, being hit by an enemy in meele or a trap you did not detect is just as instantaneous as being hit by a spell. Immediate actions and readied action interrupt the other action. (that's actually in the rules). In addition, spells, even when cast, don't just appear where you want them. They still travel the intervening space. For example, if you have line of sight but not line of effect (e.g. your enemy is behind an invisible object or a wall of force or a dispelling sphere) and you don't know it then try to cast the spell what will happen? Your spell either fails outright or hits the obstacle. That means spells must still cross the intervening space. Now, instead of an obstacle, take arcane sight. Spell enters arcane sight area, the enemy sees it, casts celerity, avoids.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

My divinations ect. Include mostly non-Divinations. Could you please tell me what my Mindsight detected both before my first Disjunction and before I was going to cast this one? Mindsight tells me the creatures type/int score/ and presence. It is fooled by, as far as I know, no Illusions, since the do not replicate the illusion of a mind. By this I mean both the X image line of spells, and anything like Disguise self.

That said, after double moving over, I will shift back to Elemental form and use a swift action and double move to ascend 300ft straight up My Familiar will as usual follow me. The dretches will spread out into a line one every 40ft or so.

[Ramos]

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Your mindsight told you before the disjunction that this was a fairly normal, if just a bit less intelligent, black wurm dragon. The mindsight tells you now that this is an illusion.

Did you also take a second round of actions? The dragon was dazed for its round.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

My first round was closing with the Illusion, my Second round was going 300ft straight up.

[Ramos]

Suddenly a dense fog that smells of sulphur begins forming around Nal, eating at both his body-and, even more alarming-his magic items.

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Corrupt Acid Fog, 6 points of corrupt damage to all creatures AND objects in the AoE. No save, no SR.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

I'm going to have to call Shenanigans on this one. I'm 300ft away by both movement and teleport, superior invisibilitied, Mindblanked, and Ghost Formed. The only thing that can detect me at all is True Seeing, Arcane Sight, and Touchsight would detect my familiar, all of which have ranges far less then 300ft.

The fact is nothing could actually see me without me seeing it, and unless the Acid Fog is literally everywhere, it's highly unlikely that whatever cast it could detect me in any way.

Ignoring for the moment that the dragon has spell resist 36 or greater, and that it used Greater Celerity to get off an Illusion as well as moving, it still has no way to detect me without me detecting it. And it's not going to accurately guess my movement range by any means seeing as it changes every round and I'm using teleports.

Also, is it a Wyrm Black Dragon CR 20, or a Great Wyrm CR 22? You said 15th level caster and 19 CL from Practiced, but that would be for a CR 22 Great Wyrm, a Regular would only be 13th level casting at CL 17. Of course it could easily be one of the other Dragon types, all featuring advanced CR, but when I was within True-Seeing range it would have revealed that.

I seriously need to know whether you think Non-Detection forces a CL check on True Seeing or not. Knowing the rules the DM plays under isn't too much to ask.

If you play with such borked up rulings I'd like to keep that in mind so that I can use it to my advantage to add Touchsight/True Seeing/Arcane Sight to the spells that are pretty much never going to effect me.

Leaving me with? Maybe Demon True Seeing, maybe. That's about it.

[Ramos]

Large explanation in spoilers:

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I'm going to have to call Shenanigans on this one. I'm 300ft away by both movement and teleport, superior invisibilitied, Mindblanked, and Ghost Formed. The only thing that can detect me at all is True Seeing, Arcane Sight, and Touchsight would detect my familiar, all of which have ranges far less then 300ft. The fact is nothing could actually see me without me seeing it, and unless the Acid Fog is literally everywhere, it's highly unlikely that whatever cast it could detect me in any way.

Not true. A certain invisible magical effect that is smaller than 1 inch was within the illusion. True seeing renders figments into translucent outlines-and invisible objects are seen normally. The problem is, that was a magical effect, not an object or creature, that is normally invisible. So, we go to see invisibility instead that sees invisible things as translucent shapes. You don't have arcane sight to notice the difference in the auras between the 1-inch translucent effect and the gargantuan translucent outline. You effectively see it as part of the illusion. (a spot check of 40 or higher-that's 10 for average difficulty task, 16 for fine size, 5 for distraction from the battle, 5 for distance of 50 ft, 4 for concealment from larger illusion-could reveal the difference. But you didn't make the active check.)

Now, the dragon had concentrated on said magical effect for the round. That enabled him to see from it as if he was there himself. So, he saw you (with arcane sight) from 50 ft away-you didn't see him because he wasn't there. Then, you teleported 60 ft up which is still within 110 ft, shifted form then continued straight up, your familiar following. The dragon saw both you and the familiar disappearing up. In addition, the DC of your magic aura the dragon only fails on a 1. You got three emanations concealed that extend 40 feet and another 3 on your familiar. That's 1/64000000 chance for the dragon to fail to see one of the six. I didn't bother rolling that. So, the dragon saw at least one aura continuing to disappear upwards for another forty feet.

Where's the very first spot you'd look for yourself if you were in the dragon's place? Straight up. So, he moves towards your general direction for 200 or so feet (upwards move is halved even if you double move) until he sees the 40 ft aura then casts 20-30 ft into the aura. Doesn't have to be exact-acid fog is 20 ft radius. He still doesn't see you and you don't see him.

Ignoring for the moment that the dragon has spell resist 36 or greater, and that it used Greater Celerity to get off an Illusion as well as moving,

Awaken Resistance is one feat. Gives him SR 34. Add either Awaken Resistance a couple of times more or Improved Spell Resistance.
He didn't have to use greater celerity-just a twinned normal one with the metamagic increase diminished (improved metamagic)

Also, is it a Wyrm Black Dragon CR 20, or a Great Wyrm CR 22? You said 15th level caster and 19 CL from Practiced, but that would be for a CR 22 Great Wyrm, a Regular would only be 13th level casting at CL 17. Of course it could easily be one of the other Dragon types, all featuring advanced CR, but when I was within True-Seeing range it would have revealed that.

My mistake in my previous post regarding caster level-it is Wurm Dragon 20, CL 13/17 without bonuses. The cl check was a 7 though so you still fail.

I seriously need to know whether you think Non-Detection forces a CL check on True Seeing or not. Knowing the rules the DM plays under isn't too much to ask

It does. I said it a couple of times in the OOC thread when discussing the other guy's nondetection before this fight even begun.

[namo]

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As expected, half of the time will be devoted to rule debates. I'll throw my 2 cents in :

Conjuration
[...]
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The above clearly applies to Acid Fog, which is a Conjuration (Creation) effects. And yes for the purpose of those rules the fog is an object.

Creation

A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above).

Since the wizard is flying, he can't be subject to an Acid Fog.


I also wonder what kind of illusory effect allows enhanced senses (Arcane Sight) to work through it. Certainly not Project Image. But I'll learn soon enough.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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Now, the dragon had concentrated on said magical effect for the round. That enabled him to see from it as if he was there himself. So, he saw you (with arcane sight) from 50 ft away-you didn't see him because he wasn't there. Then, you teleported 60 ft up which is still within 110 ft, shifted form then continued straight up, your familiar following. The dragon saw both you and the familiar disappearing up. In addition, the DC of your magic aura the dragon only fails on a 1. You got three emanations concealed that extend 40 feet and another 3 on your familiar. That's 1/64000000 chance for the dragon to fail to see one of the six. I didn't bother rolling that. So, the dragon saw at least one aura continuing to disappear upwards for another forty feet.

For starters, I have 3 disguised emanations up on myself, none on my familiar. Secondly, I moved 220ft straight up first (at perfect maneuverability, so I move at full speed, not 1/2 speed, something that probably can't be said for the Dragon), then teleported an addition 80ft So he would have to ascend 190 feet before I was once again within 120ft of him. Something I seriously doubt he can do with a move action.

Where's the very first spot you'd look for yourself if you were in the dragon's place? Straight up. So, he moves towards your general direction for 200 or so feet (upwards move is halved even if you double move) until he sees the 40 ft aura then casts 20-30 ft into the aura. Doesn't have to be exact-acid fog is 20 ft radius. He still doesn't see you and you don't see him.

That's fine, but unless his maneuverability has been magically enhanced (something I would have noticed from his flying before, and you still haven't told me about) he would only be able to ascend at half speed, at a 45 degree angle, making it impossible for him to actually get within 160ft of me. Even if his maneuverability was increased up to good, he would still need to use 380ft of movement (because he would still be moving at half speed) or a mere 300ft to gain a glimpse of even the very bottom of one of my emanations.

Which by the way, I think you are being too liberal in interpreting his viewing off. To accurately judge my location based on a aura, is first of all highly unlikely, secondly would require seeing more then a single point of it.

Bottom line, he would need a perfect fly speed to both reach a point where he can see any part of me or my emanations, and still have a standard action left.

My mistake in my previous post regarding caster level-it is Wurm Dragon 20, CL 13/17 without bonuses. The cl check was a 7 though so you still fail.

I'm going to have to ask you to stop rolling CL checks for me, since you apparently have failed a check I make on a 9 at least twice now, probably more often.

It does. I said it a couple of times in the OOC thread when discussing the other guy's nondetection before this fight even begun.

I don't think that was in the OOC thread. I certainly don't remember reading it. Had I known you went with such an incredibly liberal interpretation of Non-Detection, I would have added it to my buffs.

Unless by OOC thread you mean something other then the Recruitment thread, but you never sent me a link to a specific OOC thread.

And while we are discussing issues, there is nothing to indicate anywhere in any of the rules that spells which create effects at range originate at the caster and travel to those ranges. And certainly they do not leave an aura trail to be followed. Line of effect is required to cast the spells because you must be able to effect that spot, however with the exception of specific spells that state otherwise (Fireball/Ranged attacks spells) those spells do not at any point ever cross the intervening space. They only come into effect at that location.

In fact, on further review, I think you should take a look at one of those emanations: Detect Scrying, especially the parts that refer to effects that happen regardless of whether or not the sensor is within the field.

Unless I miss my guess, I should have received notice about the scrying effect, and made an opposed CL check to sense distance and direction to the Dragon.

Furthermore, My familiar is wearing a series of rings of Spellbattle, and he will telepathically communicate to me all spells that are cast within 60ft of him, so please inform me of all such spells (So far the only spell I am sure has been cast from within that range is Twinned Celerity, but it would have been nice to know it was Twinned.)

[Agthorr]

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Not my battle, but thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents.

Awaken Resistance is one feat. Gives him SR 34. Add either Awaken Resistance a couple of times more or Improved Spell Resistance.
He didn't have to use greater celerity-just a twinned normal one

As I read things, a twinned celerity gets you 2 standard actions, but after the first one you are dazed until the end of your next turn. Which basically means you still only get 1 standard action.

with the metamagic increase diminished (improved metamagic)

Improved Metamagic is an epic feat.

[Agthorr]

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I don't think that was in the OOC thread. I certainly don't remember reading it. Had I known you went with such an incredibly liberal interpretation of Non-Detection, I would have added it to my buffs.

I added it to my buffs, only to discover that it affects the spell True Seeing, but not the supernatural ability True Seeing. *rolls eyes*

And while we are discussing issues, there is nothing to indicate anywhere in any of the rules that spells which create effects at range originate at the caster and travel to those ranges. And certainly they do not leave an aura trail to be followed. Line of effect is required to cast the spells because you must be able to effect that spot, however with the exception of specific spells that state otherwise (Fireball/Ranged attacks spells) those spells do not at any point ever cross the intervening space. They only come into effect at that location.

You should read through the battle I'm having. We're having basically the same debates.

I think this Wizard Challenge would be more interesting with an independent DM so there were no conflicts of interest.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

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Improved Metamagic is an epic feat.

For which the Dragon qualifies, because of his 34 HD. That's the point. He uses a series of much smarter feat and spell choices, including Epic ones, to create a Monster of the "same CR." I knew this coming in and expected it, including Epic feats. I was also counting on him being generally a little fair about it by not taking the really bad ones (IE Improved Spell Capacity/Epic Spellcasting, the one from Draconomicon that makes all his spells CL 34) which he appears to have done. Improved Metamagic is a pretty fair choice all things considered. Awaken Resistance not so much, that's just being an *******, but since I posses the ability to kill him no SR, I'm not so terribly worried about that.

I added it to my buffs, only to discover that it affects the spell True Seeing, but not the supernatural ability True Seeing. *rolls eyes*

Honestly, I don't think it should work on Non-Detection. True seeing is core, and yet never even mentioned, unlike the detection spells which are. It seems to me they didn't want an invisible non-detected creature to be untouchable.

In fact, with Superior Invisibility, Ghost Form, and Non-Detection, only a Demons supernatural True Seeing would ever be able to detect me under that interpretation. Meaning that only Demons and casters capable of Shapechange would ever be able to detect me at all. And I could honestly have that same series of protections up at ECL 15 too, meaning that I would be invulnerable against my CR except Demons.

I think this Wizard Challenge would be more interesting with an independent DM so there were no conflicts of interest.

While it might be a little less about rules haggling and more about the actual challenge if Ramos presented his creatures with spells known to a neutral DM, it would actually never work out.

Ramos's creatures rely on his wonky and unpopular rules interpretations to survive. I'm fairly certain that only Ramos, and maybe Belial "his friend" whom I've heard referenced, would ever interpret Disjunction and other instantaneous effects as appearing and going towards the location they are created in. And without that, the Dragon would have died a long time ago.

Similarly for his super aura reading strategies. I've never seen another DM in the universe who believes that Auras are so clear that by seeing a 1/1000000000000th of it (the tiniest speck within range) that you can somehow accurately determine the exact size of the aura and it's center.

I'm honestly most curious about how the Dragon, even with two standard actions managed to:
1) Move 200ft
2) Cast an Illusion spell
3) Cast Arcane Eye or equivalent
4) Make himself invisible
5) Concentrate on the effect

Even with a quickened Mislead, that still requires A move action, two Standard actions, and a swift Action. And Celerity specifically gives Standard actions not any swift actions to cast quickened spells.

Unless there is some spell out there that is exactly like Mislead but also creates a Sensor in it, I don't see how that is possible.

In fact, after looking for some spell, it seems that my Detect Scrying should have informed me of a lot of things that it for some reason didn't.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Okay, so obviously like all high level fights, this quickly has become a rules war.

So let's continue it in three segments:

1) When that Twinned Celerity was cast, my familiar dispelled it with a Ring of Spellbattle, then I hit him with the orbs, after the Disjunction, how dead is he?

2) You review everything I posted about fly speeds/distances/ect. Then we continue forward with whatever changes are needed.

3) We continue under the assumption that I just got hit with an Acid Fog which does 0 damage to me and all my Equipment. And it's my turn.

So as per 3)

Nal swift action teleports 50ft straight down, so does his Familiar, free action turns into a Balor (now that I know my True-Seeing is negatable), what do I see before I break out move and standard actions?

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

I hereby declare Nalthien the winner based on the Dragon's abrupt disappearance. Too bad because I was having fun. Hope Ramos is okay.

[Reel On, Love]

Spoiler

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I gotta say, Ramos--if the dragon is whipping out twinned Celerity, why even bother running this? Why not just give the dragon a Candle of Invocation and have it use an infinite gate loop and win?

What are we trying to show here, anyway?