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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kizara's Avatar

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    Default Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Inspired by the recent archer optimization thread (and my friend who is playing a ranger's constant nagging) I have taken a look at the OotBI and attempted to improve the class. Have a look.


    Problems:

    -Ranged Precision can only be used at 30ft range until level 10.
    -Ranged Precision is a standard action, making the prerequisite Rapid Shot feat largely useless and counter-intuitive to the class abilities. Also, its not very good at mid-high levels.
    -the class is generally sub-par but has easy prereqs.
    -Really short and limited class skill list, compared even to the fighter.
    -Ranged Precision has the same problems with sneak attack in regards to not working on half the enemies in the game.


    Solution (from my Tome of House Rules v1.53):

    Order of the Bow Initiate

    -Prerequisites increased to: BAB 6+, Spot 5 ranks and Called Shot* feat.

    -Gain Extended Precision at 3rd level (instead of as written).

    -Increase Skill Point progression from 2 to 4.

    -Gain Rapid Precision at 5th level: you may use Ranged Precision in conjunction with Rapid Shot as a special attack action. Thus, you take -2 to both your attacks and make two Ranged Precision attacks as a standard action. You may still not use it as part of a full-attack action.

    -Gain Piercing Precision at 7th level: Your Ranged Precision damage deals half damage even to targets normally immune to precise damage.

    -Gain Archery Mastery at 9th-level: Choose between increasing the critical multiplier or critical threat range on the bow you have Weapon Focus in by 1 step.

    -Gain Supreme Precision at 10th level: you may use Ranged Precision as part of a full-attack action.

    -Gain Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently and Tumble as class skills.


    *Called Shot is a homebrewed feat, described below:
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    Called Shot [General]

    Prerequisites: BAB 1+, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.

    Benefit: On your action, before making an attack roll, you may choose to subtract a number from your ranged attack rolls and add that number to your ranged damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. Targets immune to precision damage (such as undead) are likewise immune to this effect.

    Your target must be within 30ft to benefit from this effect.

    This feat cannot be used in conjunction with Power Attack or Precision Strike.


    Anyways, opinons? Is the class now viable in a moderately-optimized archer build?
    Last edited by Kizara; 2008-04-26 at 06:08 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    I'd say it's greatly improved. I'm not sure if it's quite as good as deepwood sniper still, but your changes would probably make it the best 3.5 class for a straight archer (i.e. without an emphasis on long-range archery, or magical archery, or mounted archery, or any of the other variations they've made prestige classes for).

    You could probably reduce the BAB requirement to +5, though. There's no real reason people shouldn't be able to get into the class at 6th level.
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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    I think you have rapid shot and many shot confused... Many shot is fire two arrows as a standard action with penalties. Rapid shot is during a full round gain an extra attack and all others are at a -2. I don't see what is so bad about rapid shot.

    I am not a fan of 'Piercing Precision'
    Last edited by Animefunkmaster; 2008-04-26 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Why? Because it makes Roguelikes more useful? Any rogue worth his salt has penetrating strike, so why not let the OotBI have an equivalent?
    Last edited by Azerian Kelimon; 2008-04-26 at 05:17 PM.

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    Kizara's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Animefunkmaster View Post
    I think you have rapid shot and many shot confused... Many shot is fire two arrows as a standard action with penalties. Rapid shot is during a full round gain an extra attack and all others are at a -2. I don't see what is so bad about rapid shot.

    I am not a fan of 'Piercing Precision'
    The problem is thus:

    1) Rapid shot, in and of itself, is fine.

    2) Rangers get rapid shot in their combat style, thus making it a logical class to qualify for OotBI. This is a very good thing.

    3) Rapid shot is a prerequisite, but has no synergy at all with percision strike in the original class, since you can't use Precision strike in a full attack.

    4) Thus, I have made this class be able to use rapid shot LIKE manyshot when it uses precision strike, and then be able to use it in the normal full attack function.

    What is your problem with piercing precision?

    Azerian Kelimon:
    Even though this class isn't really for rogues at all, the 'sneak-attack like' damage of Piercing Precision needs a way to affect constructs and the like. Honestly, its only half damage and you don't even get the ability until 13th level. Not disagreeing with you, since you are defending me in the first place :). Just clarifying.

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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizara View Post
    Gain Extended Precision at 3rd level (instead of as written).
    This might make a nice 3-level dip for ranged rogues, since Extended Precision (as written) also applies to sneak attack. Don't know whether you like that or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizara View Post
    Gain Archery Mastery at 9th-level: Choose between increasing the critical multiplier or critical threat range on the bow you have Weapon Focus in by 1 step.
    Be advised that increasing the threat range is mathematically a better option because bows have a x3 crit multiplier already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizara View Post
    Rangers get rapid shot in their combat style, thus making it a logical class to qualify for OotBI. This is a very good thing.
    Rangers also get Manyshot in their combat style, at 6th level. Conveniently, this means a pure archery-style Ranger will already have Manyshot by the time it qualifies for this class.

    And since you have to be at least at BAB +11 when you get Rapid Precision, Manyshot already gives you more arrows. It's true that Manyshot still only works with a 30-foot range, but honestly I'd just give the class Manyshot as a bonus feat and say Ranged Precision applies to Manyshot, rather then invent another use of Rapid Shot.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kizara's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    This might make a nice 3-level dip for ranged rogues, since Extended Precision (as written) also applies to sneak attack. Don't know whether you like that or not.
    That's intentional.

    Be advised that increasing the threat range is mathematically a better option because bows have a x3 crit multiplier already.
    I deliberately gave that as another option because of this.

    And since you have to be at least at BAB +11 when you get Rapid Precision, Manyshot already gives you more arrows. It's true that Manyshot still only works with a 30-foot range, but honestly I'd just give the class Manyshot as a bonus feat and say Ranged Precision applies to Manyshot, rather then invent another use of Rapid Shot.
    Meh, good point. I'll do that. Thanks for your contribution.

    EDIT: Except after checking, Manyshot doesn't allow multiple attacks with precision damage and also has a greater attack penalty. It allows you to do a full-attack style sequence at -4 to hit as a standard action, and lose your precision damage. All in all, a decent trade but not really what I want for the style of the class.

    Still, was a very good suggestion, even if I decided against doing it.
    Last edited by Kizara; 2008-04-26 at 07:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Order of the Bow Initiate Revision.

    Greater Presision(Expanded psionics, though it itself is not a psionic feat) does allow precision damage on attacks, though I believe it uses the same range limitations. You could give the class greater many shot and then increase the range at which many shot operates.
    Btw, here's the text of greater many shot:
    Quote Originally Posted by srd
    Greater Manyshot [General]

    You are skilled at firing many arrows at once, even at different opponents.
    Prerequisites

    Dex 17, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.
    Benefit

    When you use the Manyshot feat, you can fire each arrow at a different target instead of firing all of them at the same target. You make a separate attack roll for each arrow, regardless of whether you fire them at separate targets or the same target. Your precision-based damage applies to each arrow fired, and, if you score a critical hit with more than one of the arrows, each critical hit deals critical damage.
    Special

    A fighter may select this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats.
    Last edited by MeklorIlavator; 2008-04-26 at 07:13 PM.
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