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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    The war is coming to a bloody end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    I guess their future relationship depends largely on the exact depths of Wanda's anger and her feelings for Jillian, and which of those will win out.
    And on the exact depths of Jillians anger and her feelings for Wanda. And on how these interact with Jillians relationship with Ansom (if any - that may have been 'revenge sex', and she may have been fooling herself about being in love with him).
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    It's becoming somewhat clear to me that Wanda is the immediate villain of the strip, and that Stanley is just a patsy, probably under the effects of one of the loyalty spells. Everything that Stanley does or wants falls very neatly within the scope of typical egomania, and thus he is easily controlled. The methods of control, which include sex and Stanley's naive perception of himself, are also fairly transparent.

    The question then becomes, what was Wanda's goal with the summoning process of Parson? Did she want it to occur successfully? She seemed pretty cavalier about the entire thing, if we look at it from the perspective of her being the true leader of GK.

    Did Wanda know that escalating the control relationship with Jillian would break it, forcing a defeat at GK? If a defeat at GK was what she wanted from the beginning, is she still trying to effect that? Would being assimilated into the Coalition by switching sides (with Jillian's approval) escalate her acquisition of all of the Arkentools, each wielded by a slave she manufactured?

    Another idea, the moment it became clear to her that Parson might actually win at GK, she was careful to strengthen her bond with Stanley, knowing that Jillian's sudden transition to loyalty and competence would be attributed to her mistake instead of Parson's. Why spare Parson?

    And why attack Jillian? Am I attributing too many masculine characteristics (avarice) to Wanda?

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    It could be that Wanda is in denial about the nature of her own actions (much as Jillian is in denial about Wanda being responsible for her own actions -- IMO, the reason Jillian refuses to believe that Wanda isn't bound by a loyalty spell is because such a spell would be a rationale for putting 100% of the blame on Stanley's head).

    If Jillian and Wanda have a dom/sub relationship going back to when they were both Faq units, the war would have allowed them to resume it... but in a distorted form, with no genuine consent and real stakes on the line. Such a situation would be ripe for abuse, and ripe for opportunities to rationalize it away (e.g. "I don't really have any choice." or "At least I'm keeping her from getting croaked.").
    My main issue is that Jillian was captured multiple times, and Wanda let her go every time. Although she might have done it in order to increase the chance of being able to glean more information from her 'spy within', she herself also divulges a lot to Jillian, such as the summoning of Parson.
    They shared a relationship not only based on dom/sub, but the intimate 'pillow talk' afterwards, as a prelude to Jillians' inevitable 'escape', clealry indicates a special relationship of trust with Jillian.

    That notwithstanding, the spell upon her was the last straw for Jillian. I just wonder if the spell was actually cast by Wanda or if it were cast by someone else (Maggie? Someone at FAQ? Charlie, who was Stanley's ally at the time that FAQ was attacked? (do not attack the dwagons...?)...)

    That certainly would be the kicker - Jillian croaks Wanda, only to discover later that it was Ansom's aly that had contributed to the fall of FAQ, as well as the spell cast upon her... ooooh talk about mind-borked...
    Yes, i know, far-fetched.

    I completely agree with you that Jillian does not wish to accept that Wanda could be acting on her own against her, to her own peril, as she has clearly betrayed Wanda far worse than she ever was - Wanda could have croaked her countless times, and kept releasing her, and sharing informatino with her... she let her infatuation with Ansom and her hatred of Stanley overpower her concerns and desires for Wanda.
    Of course Wanda has a right to be mighily pee-oed, and I suspect we will see just how deeply this hurt will reach when she reaches into the bowels of the aether and summons forth a creature of such abomination as to turn their opponents ashen with fear.

    Ooooohhhh I love the seweet sweet torture of the wait on these boards... :D

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbin View Post
    My main issue is that Jillian was captured multiple times, and Wanda let her go every time. Although she might have done it in order to increase the chance of being able to glean more information from her 'spy within', she herself also divulges a lot to Jillian, such as the summoning of Parson.
    We don't know just how much Wanda disclosed, but that's probably a metastory issue (there's no point in wasting panels rehashing that, so the scene ended after establishing the topic of conversation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbin View Post
    That notwithstanding, the spell upon her was the last straw for Jillian. I just wonder if the spell was actually cast by Wanda or if it were cast by someone else (Maggie? Someone at FAQ? Charlie, who was Stanley's ally at the time that FAQ was attacked? (do not attack the dwagons...?)...)
    I don't see anything that even vaguely hints at any of those possibilities (and I have no idea where you got the notion that Charlie was ever allied to Stanley), so I'm sticking with the obvious conclusion that it was Wanda.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-05-13 at 08:07 AM.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeku View Post
    Another idea, the moment it became clear to her that Parson might actually win at GK, she was careful to strengthen her bond with Stanley, knowing that Jillian's sudden transition to loyalty and competence would be attributed to her mistake instead of Parson's. Why spare Parson?
    I read Wanda's motivations for sleeping with Stanley as a delay tactic to give Parson more time to execute his battle plan without Stanley butting in and mucking everything up. Stanley was already pissed that the "Free Jillian and then beat up on her rescue squad" plan didn't work (for the first time, apparently). Also. Wanda was doubly invested in seeing Parson succeed:

    1) She recommended summoning him, then actually performed the summoning
    2) She manipulated a release of Jillian

    I am interested in seeing future strips futher explore Wanda's relationship with Parson. Not in a romantic sense, mind you. Wanda must be ultimately confident in his abilites due to the inheirent parameters of the summoning spell that brought him. She quickly identifies Stanley and a deeper understanding of the rules of Erfworld as the only things standing in his way to manipulate the tactics of the situation. Does the prospect of manipulating Parson pose the ultimate challenge to a Dom like Wanda? (uncroaked, thrall Sub in Jillian, power behind the throne in Stanley, etc...) Does she see him as potentially someone as devious as she is, and thus someone she can have an actual friendship with rather than a semi-dysfunctional relationship?

    Hope, hope, hope next update comes soon! I'll even take a blog at this point...

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbin
    My main issue is that Jillian was captured multiple times, and Wanda let her go every time. Although she might have done it in order to increase the chance of being able to glean more information from her 'spy within', she herself also divulges a lot to Jillian, such as the summoning of Parson.
    We really don't know how much information was given up. We know at least some information was inaccurate. The spell was findamancy/predicamancy; not findamancy/lookamancy like Wanda said to Jillian. That may have been accidental, it may have a deliberate attempt to manipulate Jillian, or Wanda may have wanted to talk with Jillian without divulging vital information. Of course, some information has been given to Jillian, but it might not be useful due to innacuracies mixed in, or it might so incomplete and corrupted with lies the information is flat out harmful to the coalition. This calls into question if Jillian actually knows what Stanley's plan is.

    Also I'm wondering why Jillian (or the coalition) thinks knights have been brought with Stanley. He only has room for four other people, and Stanley (according to Jillian) mind-controlled casters from FAQ, of which it appears there were five; so I think if Jillian had good information she would conclude the casters are coming with Stanley not the knights. Therefore I'm guessing there are either some secrets to be reviled as to the reasons for the knight, or Jillian has flawed information.

    P.S. I think the best example of Wanda's manipulation was the catch and release Jillian plan, she set it up so Parson looked responsible for the things that might go wrong (Ansom), but if it worked she would get some credit because it was her "spell".
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    I always read the preparations for dance-fighting as referring to all the knights in GK. You know, the elite units that would likely decimate all their grunts?

    That they kept the attire after deciding to follow Stanley is likely them expressing their knowledge of Stanley's battle gear of choice.

    I may be wrong, but that was how I read that exchange.
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Yeah, but Ansom's not dressed like they are. He is still in all his heavy armour. Although that might just be for show seeing as how it changed when he fought dwagons.
    Curse you and your plausible alternatives!
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Justyn View Post
    If he was under one, I would wonder to whom. Aside from Wanda, who has the want and wherewithal to do something like that?

    Though, in retrospect, Wanda may have had a suggestion spell on Stanley, and it was the breaking of the one on Stanley, rather than the one on Jillian, that caused her to go catatonic. I highley doubt that I am the first to go along this train of thought.
    Don't forget about Maggie. She would probably be able to detect any thinkamancy spells on Stanley, and she said herself that Wanda was talented but untrained. Seems unlikely that she would be able pull a fast one on Maggie.

    Also notice that when Parson first notices the column of air units approaching, Bogroll asks if a caster should be summoned. I interpret this as meaning that casters also have ranged spells or attacks that could be used against the fliers. It seemed odd to me that the casters had no way of defending themselves, especially a master of death magic like Wanda.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
    Don't forget about Maggie. She would probably be able to detect any thinkamancy spells on Stanley, and she said herself that Wanda was talented but untrained. Seems unlikely that she would be able pull a fast one on Maggie.
    Maggie was bound into the Eyemancer trio, and not functioning as an individual caster. (OTOH, Wanda's reference to the trio as one of Stanley's shrewder ideas implies that it was created after Wanda started working for him, so Maggie would have been an individual caster back when Wanda was first establishing her role in Gobwin Knob.)

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Justyn View Post
    Though, in retrospect, Wanda may have had a suggestion spell on Stanley, and it was the breaking of the one on Stanley, rather than the one on Jillian, that caused her to go catatonic. I highley doubt that I am the first to go along this train of thought.
    Well, it recently occurred to me that maybe Maggie was just flat out wrong in her prognosis, and Wanda's state was due to plain old emotional shock. That would explain why she is suddenly up and about way ahead of Maggie's predictions, and why she's so furiously angry now. She feels betrayed by Jillian acting so strongly against Wanda's well-being in the battle, and maybe, just MAYBE, she really does love the barbarian enough for it to have such a profound effect on her.

    Or maybe I'm giving her way too much credit, and Wanda's really just a master manipulator who's angry that her tool broke the leash. I guess only time will tell.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Maggie was bound into the Eyemancer trio, and not functioning as an individual caster. (OTOH, Wanda's reference to the trio as one of Stanley's shrewder ideas implies that it was created after Wanda started working for him, so Maggie would have been an individual caster back when Wanda was first establishing her role in Gobwin Knob.)
    This is just an assumption but I thought maggie was at the 'head' of the link since thinkamancy was required(?) to bind the casters together. She was bound when the big showdown occurred but I don't think she was always bound. The trio, I think, broke their link every night. That's why the lookamancer was alone that night.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
    The trio, I think, broke their link every night. That's why the lookamancer was alone that night.
    When Stanley ordered them to break their link, one of them croaked and another one became deranged. If that's what happened the one time we know that they broke their link, it's rather unlikely that they've ever done so before, much less that they did it every turn. (OTOH, it's possible that the link was in a weaker "standby mode" at night, when no units could move and the Eyemancer trio had nothing really to do.)

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
    This is just an assumption but I thought maggie was at the 'head' of the link since thinkamancy was required(?) to bind the casters together. She was bound when the big showdown occurred but I don't think she was always bound. The trio, I think, broke their link every night. That's why the lookamancer was alone that night.
    I think she retained some of her individuality when not chained to the others, but no one was allowed to talk or interact with her, for that would weaken the spell. While the spell was on she could not function as an individual caster outside the link (they needed to break the link so the foolamancer could veil).
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    When Stanley ordered them to break their link, one of them croaked and another one became deranged. If that's what happened the one time we know that they broke their link, it's rather unlikely that they've ever done so before, much less that they did it every turn. (OTOH, it's possible that the link was in a weaker "standby mode" at night, when no units could move and the Eyemancer trio had nothing really to do.)
    I thought that was because parson interacted with them, well misty, at least. It wasn't the only time the link was broke, first when Parson talked to misty for a little bit when he was trying to move units at night and then when stanley ordered all units to recall after the dwagons were defeated.

    I think they can unlink safely but the death of misty may have deranged the foolamancer.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
    I thought that was because parson interacted with them, well misty, at least. It wasn't the only time the link was broke, first when Parson talked to misty for a little bit when he was trying to move units at night and then when stanley ordered all units to recall after the dwagons were defeated.

    I think they can unlink safely but the death of misty may have deranged the foolamancer.
    No. Trust me, we've all been over this before...

    Parson could have caused the link to break by talking to Misty. That is what Wanda is upset about. Breaking the link can have grave consequences.
    Sizemore explains it here in panels 7-10. From Panel 10: "Talking to them as individuals can break that spell, Parson" (bold added). This indicates that it is possible to talk to them as individuals without breaking the link. Parson's apology in the same panel indicates that Sizemore is aware of what happened with Misty.

    The link did not break until Stanley ordered it.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    I've actually been trying to figure out just why Wanda is so upset with Jillian.
    My guess is that Wanda's spell didn't force someone to take any particular actions, but simply prevented them from taking action against something they loved or cared about.

    Jillian 'broke the spell' when she realized that Ansom and his cause were more important to her than Wanda was, and so acted against Wanda's interests in the service of Ansom's.

    It's not the spell itself that bothers Wanda, it's that Jillian's actions (including breaking out of the spell) show that she isn't the thing Jillian cares about most. She views it as a rejection.

    And Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    My guess is that Wanda's spell didn't force someone to take any particular actions, but simply prevented them from taking action against something they loved or cared about.

    Jillian 'broke the spell' when she realized that Ansom and his cause were more important to her than Wanda was, and so acted against Wanda's interests in the service of Ansom's.
    Hmmm... that fits very neatly with Wanda's description ("She won't fight for someone she hates. Nor harm someone she loves.") and her assumption that "But above all else, she will not harm me." It also fits Jillian's moment of paralysis -- she's being pulled in two mutually exclusive directions by both the spell and her own feelings.

    While Wanda knew that Jillian loved Ansom, she was apparently (over)confident that, as long as she didn't try to push it too far by trying to get her to turn sides outright, the balance would ultimately tip in her favor.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    The first thing that happens after Ansom swallows the suspicion that Parson planted about a defecting subordinate and lets them go is one of those subordinates making a beeline to Gobwin Knob and having a one-on-one talk with someone. That'll sit well.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    I dont usually post in erfworld. but I had a laugh when I finally figured out that it was the contra code. and thanks to whoever it was that said what the other codes are. that was so funny.
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    On a separate note, I'd like to point out that Wanda still hasn't confirmed that she had a mind-control spell on Jillian.
    As I understood the conversation, Wanda did - by not denying the accusation, but simply stating "You do [like to be controlled]".

    Anyway I feel the whole speculation about "Wando did control Stanley instead of Jillian" to be a fruitless mental excercise.
    Jillian was controlled, because she was totally out of character when her stack met the dragons. The one commander who usually can't be restrained from attacking, inventing reasons to circumvent her attack orders? Get serious. Her goal is to fight and destroy Stanley, and she has killed his units wherever she met them, without hesitation or remorse.
    As long as her choice is not to kill Wanda in person, the abstract notion of "hurting Wanda by winning a crucial battle" will not worry Jillian, especially as she is sure that the valuable casters will not be killed but are part of the spoils.

    And secondly Wanda is far too smart to leave traceable proofs when she can do without. Several casters knew about control spells. Jaclyn detected one and probably the blonde Archon ("they didn't pay for magical security") did. Maggie can, and maybe even jack-of-all-trades Sizemore. Why risk this? She has explained to Parsons how she manipulates Stanley, perfectly without control ("let him have your way"), and Parsons realized that this is exactly what she did.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    My guess is that Wanda's spell didn't force someone to take any particular actions, but simply prevented them from taking action against something they loved or cared about.

    Jillian 'broke the spell' when she realized that Ansom and his cause were more important to her than Wanda was, and so acted against Wanda's interests in the service of Ansom's.

    It's not the spell itself that bothers Wanda, it's that Jillian's actions (including breaking out of the spell) show that she isn't the thing Jillian cares about most. She views it as a rejection.

    And Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...
    Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion I've reached.
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Ok so I am not sure if anyoen pointed this out, someone probably did, but it's taking forever to get through the pages of replies since the site is so slow.

    Anyway, I am almost 100% sure that Wanda tapped into a tower defense. The reason being in the prior comic Bog asks parson if he should fetch a caster when they see the fliers approach. He doesn't say plural casterS or a unit of archers. Also, since Efdup is the commanders tower it makes sense that you couldn't just fly right up to it and kill the commander, bypassing all the walls and non fliers/archers.

    Are all the updates going to be this far apart? I'll leave it at that instead of being negative...

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