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2008-05-02, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Actually, Select + Start were added in for Co-Op game play. Other than that, for the single player code - you're right.
So who knows, maybe there's something cooperative we're missing ( Or perhaps its due to her being on a 'side' which naturally has multiple people in it ).
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2008-05-02, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
That's hard to imagine for two reasons. First simply because Stanley is really hard to imagine anyone liking in any sense other than "he's amusing," which is an unlikely reaction for someone whose life could be snuffed out in an instant by one of Stanley's tantrums. Second, because when Stanley's not around Wanda talks about him (to Jillian and to Parson himself) with about as much respect as Parson does.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2008-05-02, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I should have read the strip again before responding. I mixed up the order of the conversation in my (pain-addled and sleep-deprived) head.
On the other hand, just to play devil's advocate, Jillian could have been contemplating capturing Stanley and forcing him to order the spell broken.
Also, if Wanda is being controlled by a spell (as Jillian thinks at that point), she might not be one of Stanley's units in the way, for example, Sizemore is. She might technically be a captive (the same way Jillian was... upkeep paid by the captor, etc.)
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2008-05-02, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-05-02, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Or more likely it is because units can (and sometimes have to) attack enemy units when the enemy enters their hex. This situation is slightly more complex because fliers with a commander can opt not to engage, but this is countered by the fact that Wanda is utilizing a ranged attack (and thus, I would argue, qualifies as an 'archery unit').
Last edited by fendrin; 2008-05-02 at 08:28 AM. Reason: added links
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2008-05-02, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I love Erfworld.
Founder of the Fanclub of the (Late) Chief of Cliffport Police Department (He shall live forever in our hearts)
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
Shameless shill:
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2008-05-02, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Not just yet. Let's give her a page or two and see what she does with it.
I take this strip as fairly compelling evidence, coupled with these pages:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0076.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0077.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0078.html
of Wanda BSODing,
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicBSOD
when _STANLEY_, not Jillian, turned against her. You'll notice that Wanda was still talking clearly AFTER it became clear that Jillian had broken the spell, but as soon as Stanley countered her, she shut down.
Stanley was the man in the throne. Wanda was the ruler.
My guess is that she joined up after the fall of FAQ (maybe during, or even before) in a quest for power.
Discuss.
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2008-05-02, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Apparently, stopping in an enemy hex allows resident troops to start the combat. But it's to be seen if an actual combat is going to start - Rob is a master in twisting plots. It could be just a Wanda's show, or even a bluff. Power is hard to gather, while illusions are cheap.
Actually, I'd like to see Parson preventing Wanda / Jillian match. Just for the sake of seeing Wanda reaction.
Laurentio
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2008-05-02, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Oh... boop. Something tells me the proverbial crap is about to hit the proverbial fan. All that's missing is the Ominous Latin Chanting.
A) Wanda would seem to be more powerful than anybody realized, except possibly Stanley.
B) Jillian is way too idealistic for her own good. She didn't even consider the possibility that Wanda could be working for Stanley of her own free will.
C) According to the rules we've been told about, the relationship of faction leader to subject is not one of magical compulsion per se; it's more like the natural laws of Erfworld. Whether units serve based on friendship, mutual goals, or money is irrelevant; they all have a Loyalty stat, among others.
D) Warlords and casters in particular seem able to make independent decisions. They are not slaves to their ruler's will and can change sides, disobey orders, or coerce other independent units to do the same.
E) Presumably, warlords and casters, upon the death or defeat of their faction's ruler, don't automatically disband like ordinary units, but rather may be captured, become mercenaries, or switch sides. I'm still not entirely clear on whether a designated heir is required for this or simply allows the side to continue existing after its ruler's defeat.
Based on the above, the simplest rational explanation is that, when Stanley captured FAQ, Wanda switched to his side of her own volition. Why she did so, and why she continues to remain loyal to him while his side is losing have not yet been revealed in the comic. Given what we've seen of Wanda's personality and motives, she could very well be even more evil than Stanley himself, but I think it's a bit early to pull out the Epileptic Trees just yet - we just don't know enough to speculate with any accuracy.Proud, small, slightly stinky member of the fan club.
Clang, clang, clang goes the trolley / Ring, ring, ring goes the bell.Git away from me, ye daft fool!
Barky! You came back!
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2008-05-02, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Full well. In the original Contra, on the startup screen, before beginning the game, you could enter The Code (I feel caps are appropriate) and hit *start* to begin or hit *select* to choose the 2 Player option, and then *start* for you and your buddy to wreak havoc with your many, many lives (or mans if you're Strong Bad). I think it could be significant that she "hit select" before entering the code. That could mean everyone in the Knob has multiple extra mans.
My back yard makes my front yard look like an idiot. -- Homer
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2008-05-02, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Hmmm. In D&D terms, it seems Wanda is going nova.
She might burn herself out here, particularly if she is still weak from her catatonia.
EDIT:
I think the cheatcodes might be Erfian buff spells. If they were actually god mode level cheat codes, it would destroy the strip.
(i.e. why didn't Wanda just do this in the first place, wiping out the army in one swell foop, completely eliminating the need to summon Parson?)Last edited by fendrin; 2008-05-02 at 08:50 AM.
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2008-05-02, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
For people who say Wanda freely chose Stanley's side, i present to you the following hypothesis:
Wanda is the one who summonned Stanley to FAQ in the first place.
Wand might well have been enamored with Jillian, and shared in some of her views - that FAQ was doomed and boring, ruled by a lazy good-for nothing isloationist. Jillian managed to escape and pursue her dreams of adventure, leaving Wanda to rot in her magical experimentations.
Using her magical experimentations, SHE was the one who directed Stanley to the Hammer and the Dwagons, SHE was the one, using Thinkamancy and whatever-mancies, to engineer Salive IV's demise. She did all this to engineer her own freedom, and fell in love with the power, yet still lusted after her Jillian and the 'co-prisoner' status they shared... maybe....
Jillians' ultimate betrayal of Wanda .. for a 'Noble'... would therefore have been completely unbalancing to Wanda, who saw both of them potentially as ruling the world together, having adventures, playing both sides, with herself as dominant, but fundamentally, in a twisted manner, on the same side.
Now to find that Jillian has abandonnedd her 'for good', has made Wanda 'lose it'.
I wonder if we are going to get to see uncroaked dwagons?
The cracks and smoldering we see might well be the summoning from below of something powerfully evil. Maybe an uncroaked Saline IV? Perhaps Banhammer himself?
Perhaps the Arkentools need to be attuned by killing a noble?
And I have an additional question - Where is Parson during this?
I can just see him shouting STOP - I command you to STOP!
Or using Maggie to contact Tool to tell Wanda to Stop!
Wouldn't that be a kick in the yarbles?
We will learn much in the next few releases of this saga of Erfworld, I suspect.
I am soooo looking forward to it.
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2008-05-02, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
A couple of caveats:
I think the cheat codes serve as an Erfworld version of Ominous Latin Chanting.
C) According to the rules we've been told about, the relationship of faction leader to subject is not one of magical compulsion per se; it's more like the natural laws of Erfworld. Whether units serve based on friendship, mutual goals, or money is irrelevant; they all have a Loyalty stat, among others.
That said, the existence of a Loyalty stat to provide a base level of resistance against Thinkamancy spells that attempt to compel betrayal would fit the mechanics of the world.
E) Presumably, warlords and casters, upon the death or defeat of their faction's ruler, don't automatically disband like ordinary units, but rather may be captured, become mercenaries, or switch sides. I'm still not entirely clear on whether a designated heir is required for this or simply allows the side to continue existing after its ruler's defeat.
Based on the above, the simplest rational explanation is that, when Stanley captured FAQ, Wanda switched to his side of her own volition. Why she did so, and why she continues to remain loyal to him while his side is losing have not yet been revealed in the comic. Given what we've seen of Wanda's personality and motives, she could very well be even more evil than Stanley himself, but I think it's a bit early to pull out the Epileptic Trees just yet - we just don't know enough to speculate with any accuracy.
1. The circumstances in Faq (peaceful realm under a philosopher-king) wouldn't provide much opportunity to practice her favored Croakamancy. If Erfworlders live indefinitely until something croaks them (and we haven't seen any that seem aged), she'd pretty much have no such opportunities in Faq.
2. She seems to like controlling people, and has a knack for manipulating Stanley. At best, leaving would entail starting over somewhere else.
3. She may be loyal not so much to Stanley the Plaid, but rather to the Tool of the Titans. The way she chides (to the extent she can get away with) Stanley over cracking walnuts with the Arkenhammer suggests genuine reverence for the artifact.
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2008-05-02, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 105; The battle of Gobwin Knob
XYZZY may be the minesweeper cheat code, but it's origins are older. The Colossal Cave Adventure (later shortened to "Adventure") used this as the "magic word" long before minesweeper adapted it. It was one of the first computer games ever made and is the first of the text based "adventure" games for which the entire genre was named after.
IDCLIP was specifically the No Clipping cheat for Doom that let you walk through walls. IDDQD was diety mode. IDKFA was my personal favorite of those... Killer F'n Ammo.
And UUDDLRLRBABASS is the Konami code, made most famous by Contra which was basically unbeatable without it. Yes, the SS is for Select, then Start which effectively put the game in 2 player mode.
The art in this particular strip was worth the wait.Last edited by kunou126; 2008-05-02 at 09:43 AM.
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2008-05-02, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
It seems pretty clear that Wanda has/had some agenda of her own. A couple thoughts that occurred to me:
1) We don't know what she was doing in Faq. Was she a native? She didn't look like the other natives, IIRC (without going back and checking, admittedly).
2) So...is she part of Stanley's force, or is she ALLIED with Stanley? She could be his Vinnie, as opposed to his Webinar. If that's the case, maybe she dissloved her alliance and is thus "moving" independently, like Ansom had in mind for his excursionary force. One wonders whether a single unit could ally, and if an entire side must ally, what "side" might she be on?
3) As long as a unit's leige or whatever is around, how could a unit switch sides? Which adds some credence to the possibility that Wanda was not part of the Faq faq-tion , but rather part of some other, not-yet-identified side.
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2008-05-02, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
And why in heck should he do that? This is a gift from the Titans for him. Jillian obviously did not think it possible that Wanda would lash out at her. Otherwise, she would have never put herself in a position like this: One of the strongest warlords of the opposition and at least one, maybe two of Charlie's archons, are inside Gobwin Knob. That probably means a lot of bonuses added up - defense, warlord, chief warlord, and what else. And the opponent is a fast air troupe without ground support, especially without siege. Also, in addition to the air defense he planned on, Parson has now a powerful caster he thought to be out cold up to a few moments ago. If he is lucky, he might be able to draw in the rest of Jillian's group into close combat and trash the enemy's air force. Since this is not over wood or water he should be able to engage with all of his forces, giving him a huge numerical advantage here. This has become a very different situation from the strafing attack he expected originally.
And Parson might not know this, but the coalition HAS to rescue Jillian: They are on a mission to stop Stanley. And only Jillian knows where he is heading for. Unless she told the place, which is unlikely
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2008-05-02, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Don't make the mistake of assuming Wanda's motivations are simple.
While she's clearly angry, I'm willing to bet a lot of that anger is at herself and she's not acknowledging it, ie guilt. The relationship would be a bit dull if she was simply controlling Jillian without caring.
Also much of the conversation for Wanda is trying to understand what happened, why Jillian 'left her', ie 'What did I do wrong'?
So, expect another level of complexity to show up in how this all goes down.Last edited by Fez; 2008-05-02 at 10:02 AM.
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2008-05-02, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Oh, interesting... Googled ABACABB and got not only refs to a Mortal Kombat cheat code, but a Death Metal/Grindcore Band.
If we attribute meaning to her chants, perhaps we'll get to see those Death Metal Golems.
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2008-05-02, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 105; The battle of Gobwin Knob
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
"The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud
"Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee
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2008-05-02, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I think the input time of the Konami Code depended on which game you were playing at the time. I learned it with select start too, and it's true that in Contra and in the Ninja Turtles arcade game you had to input the code at the Konami screen before the main screen flashed in. On games like Gradius, though, you paused in-game and entered the code to become superpowered, so....everybody's right
"Neither rain nor snow nor glom of nit shall stay these mesengers abot their duty."
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2008-05-02, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
It's because Jillian invaded Wanda's Hex.
Notice that Parson needed to tell his forces not to attack until the enemy attacks
Also, Ansom and Vinnie needed to worry about being attacked while passing through an enemy hex
Essentially, when an enemy enters a hex, the opposing side is allowed to take action and attack... and that's what wanda is doing right now, just as Parson was considering fire at the fliers.
and if your thinking about the foolamancer, there's a big difference between him casting a veil and wanda casting an attack. Wanda is casting her spell when the enemy has entered her hex; the foolamancer's veil on the otherhand is supposed to be cast BEFORE the enemy enters the hex. The casters are allowed to cast in order to fight the enemy that enters their hex, but not before that (while the foolamancer can't cast a veil on the enemy turn to prevent their troops from being seen, he could use is magic once they enter combat)Last edited by slayerx; 2008-05-02 at 10:48 AM.
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2008-05-02, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-05-02, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I can't grasp the scale of the second to last panel. her voice seems to come from nowhere. Is that zoomed out, and the deck of that tower really that big? In which case, that's quite a long-range conversation. Also, if we take the reasoning that it must be a full hex, then how did Wanda move out of turn?
Or was she throwing her voice, and that's just the point on the floor that the more personal-scale spell we see in the next panel happened to erupt from?
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2008-05-02, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I noted a few pages back that the timing of Wanda's crash didn't fit with it being an effect of the spell on Jillian breaking -- Jillian went through her own mental Blue Screen Of Death, talked to Ansom, and attacked Leeroy before Wanda collapsed. That could be explained by supposing that the spell didn't fully break until Ansom swooped in for the dramatic rescue, but that seems like a stretch given that Jillian was doing things that the spell was supposed to prevent and (perhaps more significant) venting hostility toward Wanda ("I really hope you can see this, Wanda...")
If Wanda had a suggestion spell on Stanley, then the debacle might have broken it ("This booping useless 'Perfect Warlord'! This was Wanda's stupid idea! I never should have listened to her! I'm never going to listen to her again!!") Note that immediately afterwards, Stanley goes back to his own original "take the Arkenhammer and get out" plan.
I'm pretty sure it meant "turn" sides, given Wanda's rejection and Jillian's response that Wanda was unable to turn sides because of the (presumed) loyalty spell on her.
Huh? The "AYBABTU" balloon has a pointer to the point where the column of ZAP meets the floor (it may be a bit difficult to see at first glance given the light-colored background).
The panel doesn't have any clear scale cues, but in context it's apparently a section of the tower balcony floor (and thus not all that large).
Also, if we take the reasoning that it must be a full hex, then how did Wanda move out of turn?Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-05-02 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Added response
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2008-05-02, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- secret base, El Sobrante, CA
Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
Ooooooh..... cheat codes...!!!
Better whip out my own to be safe!
iddqd
devmapall
get_forceall9
spawn_hazardtrooperconcussion
notarget
Those should work for now, but I better be careful about that xyzzy! I knew it was dangerous, but didn't know it had that kind of power!
BTW, she forgot idspispopd.
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2008-05-02, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I doubt it, for several reasons.
1. Ansom's orders.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0103.html
..snip..
At the end of this turn, you will rendezvous with additional Charlescomm forces, break your alliance with Jetstone, and ally with Transylvito.
..endsnip..
We haven't seen any new Charlescomm forces. Ansom's camp was extremely close to GK in the first place. The point of the extra side gambit was to allow Jillian and co. to catch up with Stanley.
2. She's IN GOBWIN KNOB! Yes, we don't know the exact rules, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that you can't end your turn in the same hex as an enemy, especially not their capital city.
EDIT: She shouldn't be able to end the turn at all, if my first point is correct and she hasn't ended the Jetstone alliance yet.
Exceptions for captives, of course.
3. The context is pretty straightforward. She was telling Wanda to switch sides.
And now for something completely different.
The second to last and last panels, I believe, were examples of
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../PillarOfLight
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BattleAura
and
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerFloats
coupled with
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DramaticWind
The second to last panel, I believe, is a very wide shot of the volcano GK sits on, emphasizing the Pillar of Light.Last edited by lamguin; 2008-05-02 at 12:06 PM.
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2008-05-02, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I think that panel is just showing the bottom of her staff hitting the ground (not showing a huge plume of molten lava or energy flowing up out of an enormous gaping hole she has created)
For those who talked about AGGRO meaning forcing folks within the 'ring' to fight, did you notice that you can actually see a bit of an energy ring forming from between her right hand and her left in that final panel?
Wanda FTW!Oh it is the eyeball one.
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2008-05-02, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I was thinking in terms of phases. While I think a turn is often used to refer to an entire day, I'd argue that there are several per day. The column attack and doughnut formation support that.
And yet on my first reading, I took it the other way.
It wasn't until I was doing the post that I realized it could be taken as switch sides.
Going back a strip, it is evident that Ansom could have taken a turn to reply to the first pass of the fliers and chose not to. I.e., they get to buzz them again.
Given that Wanda is a Commander, she gets to reply to the enemy in her hex.
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2008-05-02, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
How?
Everything I've seen points to Stanley's turn starting in the morning and Ansom's ending in the evening. That will change once (if?) Jillian allies with Transylvito, but it will still be one turn per day.
Perhaps because you are under the impression that turns are much quicker.
When an enemy force moves into your hex, there are two possible scenarios: If there is no warlord in command, you auto-attack. If there is (and within Gobwin Knob, there is: Parson) you have the choice whether or not to attack. Parson in this case sent an explicit order not to attack.
You may be thinking of combat rounds, which may or may not exist in Erfworld. The significance of a turn is that you can only move or cast certain spells on your turn. You can attack (defend, really) at any time if something moves into your hex. Similarly, you can move wherever you want within your hex even if it's not your turn. You just can't cross hexes. There may be an exception for garrisoned troops moving within a city or base; we don't know.
Hexes are big enough that Wanda could very easily have gone from her quarters to that ledge without crossing a hex boundary. (In fact, one benefit of having such a tall tower is that it's possible to "stack" a huge space and get away with a tremendous amount of movement without leaving a hex.)
Warlords and other leader types have the choice to not respond, or to delay response tactically within a turn.
As regards this update: I note that Wanda has simply assumed command in a real sense. She doesn't even think of asking Parson. So Parson might have to rein her in if she actually unleashes that spell (if she even can, given Parson's recent order to all units--if she can, that raises some interesting questions about her status, or maybe about what she considers an attack...).
At least one part of me wonders if she isn't intending to go out in a blaze of glory.
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2008-05-02, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95
I recognized Evil Lyn's outfit immediately, a moving combo with Skeletor's Havoc Staff, and frankly, this is the sexiest she's ever been.
Screw Lulu from FF10, I now have a new #1 fantasy crush.
EDIT: I just got a good look...those are Skeletor's hood and mantle as well, the epaulettes(sp?) are his. *drool*Last edited by InfernalistGame; 2008-05-02 at 01:41 PM.
360lb RTS/wargamer. Fantasy world of his own construction. Perfect Warlord summoning. One day...