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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    While I find the theory that Wanda was controlling Stanly interesting, I just don't think it's possible that Maggie would be unable to know it. Since the archeons are able to tell who is under Thinkmancy, so too should Maggie (she may have been mindlinked the entire time Stanly was under Wanda's supposed control but it's obvious they retain some awarness. Maggie would have known).

    Besides, why would Stanly need to use Thinkmancy on her when there is the natural Thinkmancy?

    Obedience leaves her unable to conspire against him. That would include mind controlling him and becoming the new de facto ruler.
    Loyalty could leave her unable act against him, even if she wants to. Just because it's an unknowable stat does NOT mean they have control over it.
    Duty means she has to do what she thinks stanly would want (casters are effectively commanders so it affects her).

    She joined Stanly because it was that or death with the rest of FAQ. No mystery there. Apperently Jillian has some control over herself but that's likely because she's a mercenary not part of any particular nation. In fact, this is the whole reason WHY Parson might be able to split them up. If the army had all been one nation then this would be impossible. Wanda is now an adopted member of the Plaid tribe and cannot escape until Stanly is dead.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2008-05-03 at 12:25 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Considering the setting of the comic, and the 'incantations' Wanda was just intoning, it seems obvious to me that this a game-inspired utilization of the term.
    Oh, I don't doubt that, but since everything else she said was a cheat code of one form or another, I can't help wondering if AGGRO is as well in this case. I don't personally know if it is, though.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    You know, this is a really good opportunity for Parson. I hope he doesn't just stay sit and goes help Wanda instead.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    So...we know that Parson as a 'normally' educated geek in 'our' world has basic knowledge of math which pretty much is the equivalent of mathamancy...is it possible that all spells are just funny versions of things in the real world...things that he might be familiar with? Is it possible that He might be capable of spouting off some knowledge and becomeinguber powerful...maybe granting Wanda and Sizemore extra power beyond what they are currently capable of.

    Soo many questions...take nothing for granted.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted Otaku View Post
    In essence, an attack of opportunity?
    I am not sure these sorts of rules necessarily apply. While overland (strategic) movement is obviously rigidly regulated and abstracted by the game mechanics, tactical combat---that is, within the hex---seems rather common-sensical. Even the rules about only archers attacking flyers is one of those obvious things that does not really need to be stated unless you are a dolt sitting at a table with no sense of or appreciation for what the unit markers represent. As far as I can tell, except for the rule about unled troops automatically engaging---in itself an obvious effect---the only rules in play within hexes are those that advance the story, iow, none. It looks to me like the only rules in effect are the laws of physics, not unlike what you would find in a game of Halo or any of its ilk.

    So until I see otherwise, I am giong to assume that units in a hex act more like units in a RTS game than a table-top game.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Aw man, what are we gonna do man, what are we gonna do? Game over man! Game over!

    Okay, calm down here, calm down... iamwarren, noclip, train to zone.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    I am not sure these sorts of rules necessarily apply. While overland (strategic) movement is obviously rigidly regulated and abstracted by the game mechanics, tactical combat---that is, within the hex---seems rather common-sensical. Even the rules about only archers attacking flyers is one of those obvious things that does not really need to be stated unless you are a dolt sitting at a table with no sense of or appreciation for what the unit markers represent. As far as I can tell, except for the rule about unled troops automatically engaging---in itself an obvious effect---the only rules in play within hexes are those that advance the story, iow, none. It looks to me like the only rules in effect are the laws of physics, not unlike what you would find in a game of Halo or any of its ilk.

    So until I see otherwise, I am giong to assume that units in a hex act more like units in a RTS game than a table-top game.
    I agree entirely ^_^ 'attack of opportunity' doesn't just apply to table top games though, they got it from somewhere else. if you're on a bombing run in a fighter bomber, dump your payload but then strafe some people on the ground, those are attacks of opportunity to. I know the way in which I worded was weird, sorry

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    confused Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    I really hope that someone can see this so I can get an alternate opinion.


    When Jilian say's "That's crap. She'd never follow that moster out of her own free will, and than Jilian gets blasted... So what if Wanda is angry at Jilian for resisting the spell? And what if because it didint work Stanley freaked out and "Disowned" them? And what if the chief of Croakamancy thing was all she had?


    Please I checked all the threads and I did not find anything related to what I'm saying, and I think I'm quite wrong, but someone, please direct me

    I'm so lost on this strip.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    From what Jillian says, killing Stanley would release Wanda from a loyalty spell (if she were under one) therefore I assume that Parson would be released from the spell and not disbanded if Stanley were to be killed.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by corncobman; 2008-05-04 at 05:03 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    My reading is if Wanda was under a loyalty spell, it would be easier to parley, Stanley isn't there to give orders to attack, and thinking that Wanda *might* turn, suggests that it was believed Wanda was not that hostile.

    When the archon senses that there is no loyalty spell, and Wanda looks angry, there is a threat of "Aggro", Wanda may attack without warning/orders, and the Archon may sense better than most how dangerous Wanda is.

    (A few tourists snap pictures at a lioness. The tour guide sees tail twitching, knows better than rest how dangerous lion is, in a very frightened voice says that lion is out of control [lets get out of here, we are in trouble]!)
    Last edited by multilis; 2008-05-03 at 10:27 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    My reading is if Wanda was under a loyalty spell, it would be easier to parley, Stanley isn't there to give orders to attack, and thinking that Wanda *might* turn, suggests that it was believed Wanda was not that hostile.

    When the archon senses that there is no loyalty spell, and Wanda looks angry, there is a threat of "Aggro", Wanda may attack without warning/orders, and the Archon may sense better than most how dangerous Wanda is.
    What's interesting is that: a) Jaclyn starts down toward Jillian before Jillian brings up her theory that Wanda is mind-controlled, and b) the two are conversing a ways back from Wanda when she starts spellcasting, so it's quite likely that Jillian told them Wanda was mind-controlled, and Jaclyn is now reacting to "we're deep in enemy territory facing a powerful caster and my leader is in denial." It will be interesting to see how they react to a fully battle-ready Wanda. I'm also looking forward to seeing which of those cheat codes are meaningful and not merely in-jokes; has she really forced Jillian into one-on-one combat to the death; can she step back through a wall if necessary; etc.

  12. - Top - End - #132

    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    In my humble opinion, I belive in the Stanley-Wanda relation, none is really "controling" the other.

    What's hapening is that they are both talented individuals wich aspire to ascend to greater things.

    They both were simple minions before on their life, but then they saw an oportunity to rise in power, to have minions of their own, to be the ones giving orders and not the other way around.

    It's a win win arrangement. Wanda is a tremenduous spellcaster and is quite smart. Stanley knows about keeping big groups of forcess in check and is atuned to the Arkenhammer(plus he seems to be quite charismatic since everybody obeys his direct orders so readily).

    In a word where normally only the royalty has the right to rule, Wanda and Stanley united to see if they could get a slice of the cake called "world power" for themselves.

    And now Wanda is ready to show that you don't need to be a royal to dish out some serious pain.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    You know, this is a really good opportunity for Parson. I hope he doesn't just stay sit and goes help Wanda instead.
    How? He doesn't even have his complete sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by corncobman View Post
    From what Jillian says, killing Stanley would release Wanda from a loyalty spell (if she were under one) therefore I assume that Parson would be released from the spell and not disbanded if Stanley were to be killed.

    Your thoughts?
    I just realized that the Archons would know that Parson is under a loyalty spell if they saw him... and, therefore, Charlie must know that Parson is under a loyalty spell (one that apparently goes beyond any of the natural thinkamancy we've seen described; it's unclear if that would even apply to Parson if he didn't have a separate spell.)

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    We don't know Parson is under a loyalty spell. Disregarding the "other world" thing, he came here thru a spell. Thus, those few mechanics that do affect him probably treat him as a summoned creature. Loyalty as a Stat isn't a spell (remember "natural thinkamancy) but their are spells that enhance or detract from it. That's probably what Jillian's referring to. But we haven't seen Parson put under such a spell, and I think it'd be worth mentioning. Loyalty probably works differently for summoned creatures. The "natural thinkamancy" thing is probably stronger for a summoning (Summoned creatures are generally are under tighter restrictions than troops)

    That make sense?
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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    I just realized that the Archons would know that Parson is under a loyalty spell if they saw him... and, therefore, Charlie must know that Parson is under a loyalty spell (one that apparently goes beyond any of the natural thinkamancy we've seen described; it's unclear if that would even apply to Parson if he didn't have a separate spell.)
    Sounds to me more like a substitute for obedience, there wasn't anything said about him not being able to double-cross Stanley (other than the threat of death), or using his own initiative to help Stanley.


    From what Jillian says, killing Stanley would release Wanda from a loyalty spell (if she were under one) therefore I assume that Parson would be released from the spell and not disbanded if Stanley were to be killed.
    Effectively, yes. Even if the spell stayed on Parson, Stanley would have difficulty giving orders, and there are not any standing orders right now anyway.
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    I have to say that in the next strip featuring a Jillian reaction shot to Wanda we're going to hear the phrase "Its over NINE THOUSAND!". :P

    Anyone else feel that we're about to see the unipegataurs get wiped off the map without ever getting a chance to find out if they were actually any good as units?

    Parson has to have been watching this and wondering whats up. I'm betting he'll stop Wanda as soon as he realises that she's about to aggro on Jillian, if he can, and thats what the next strip will involve. Most of the panel will be on Parson and the last panel will be Wanda either submitting to the stand-down order from Parson, or unleashing her Bolt-o-Doom (tm) in defiance of his order.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Moral Wiz View Post
    We don't know Parson is under a loyalty spell. Disregarding the "other world" thing, he came here thru a spell.
    The "gun-to-the-head" component of the summoning spell ("...if you refuse an order, the spell which summoned you will end your existence entirely") would be a bit superfluous if there were a true "loyalty" component. Certainly, Parson doesn't seem to show much respect for the Tool (heck, he got that name as a result of Parson stealth-insulting him to his face).
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-05-04 at 09:52 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Stanley seems to have been able to conspire against his own lord when he was but the chielf warlord. I mean, sure, he was "away" from the capital, so there might be rules against the direct action*, but he was able to conspire against the fellow to mortal ends.

    So my point would be that Parson doesn't strike me as unique in being able to go behind his lord's back.


    *or he may've feared being disbanded if his lord realized his betrayl before he died, or he may've been just taking the other units away so they wouldn't be compelled to protect their lord or some combination.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    The "gun-to-the-head" component of the summoning spell ("...if you refuse an order, the spell which summoned you will end your existence entirely") would be a bit superfluous if there were a true "loyalty" component. Certainly, Parson doesn't seem to show much respect for the Tool (heck, he got that name as a result of Parson stealth-insulting him to his face).
    Precisely. He doesn't need to be under a loyalty spell, the gun to head works just as well.

    [GuessatErfMechanics]He probably has normal loyalty for a unit, plus the "gun to head" as a special quality. Makes sense if the rules were made for uncontrollable creatures[/GuessatErfMechanics]
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    For my part I really hope Vinnie doesn't get croaked by all this. His last conversation with Ansom was foreboding and Wanda's packing quite a bit of firepower.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    'm betting he'll stop Wanda as soon as he realises that she's about to aggro on Jillian, if he can, and thats what the next strip will involve.
    I believe the opposite- Parson will see that battle has already been joined, and immediately order all available archers in the hex to help his caster.

    Compare RTS games where someone attacks too early. They made a tactical mistake, but refusing to back them at that point is a bigger tactical mistake. I'm guessing this battle will end with some wounds, some lower-level units killed, and an unresolved rivalry between Wanda and Jillian.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Tignok View Post
    For my part I really hope Vinnie doesn't get croaked by all this. His last conversation with Ansom was foreboding and Wanda's packing quite a bit of firepower.
    I agree with you, but unfortunately I an quite sure Vinny will be dying soon. It will either be something that drives Jillian and Ansom apart, or cements their relationship, depending on whether or not Ansom blames Jillian for it.

    In fact, It wouldn't surprise me if Vinnie is the only significant casualty of this battle. That would likely drive Jillian and Ansom apart, preserving the relationship tension into the next section. It could also put some interesting tension between Jillian and the Archons (that sounds like a rock&roll band ), though the Archons would likely still follow orders, as they must obey Charlie.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quick question. Are Wanda and Parson in the same tower? For that matter, are their multiple towers? A quick scan of some past strips really didn't answer my question.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasavin View Post
    Quick question. Are Wanda and Parson in the same tower? For that matter, are their multiple towers? A quick scan of some past strips really didn't answer my question.
    Yep -- they're in the Tower of Efdup. Parson is in the Big Cheese office recently vacated by Stanley, and Wanda is on the observation balcony.

    Parson saw that the flying incursion group is at the tower; whether he'll poke his head out (or perhaps whether Bogroll will do so on his behalf) to see what's up (especially if he can see the pyrotechnic show that's getting started) remains to be seen.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-05-04 at 08:56 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Wanda in combat mode, cool. She seems to have all it takes to lead the uncroaked troops to victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenitor View Post
    I believe the opposite- Parson will see that battle has already been joined, and immediately order all available archers in the hex to help his caster.

    Compare RTS games where someone attacks too early. They made a tactical mistake, but refusing to back them at that point is a bigger tactical mistake. I'm guessing this battle will end with some wounds, some lower-level units killed, and an unresolved rivalry between Wanda and Jillian.
    We don't know if Jillian is interested in a fight. She'll be moving in the morning but we don't know if the wounds her troops receive while working for Jetstone will heal in the new sides' turn or only later during Jetstone's.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    We don't know if Jillian is interested in a fight. She'll be moving in the morning but we don't know if the wounds her troops receive while working for Jetstone will heal in the new sides' turn or only later during Jetstone's.
    It's almost guaranteed to be on her own 'new' turn. My evidence is that prisoners (who, in essence, are forced to be a part of their captor's side, albeit at a very low loyalty) heal (and act, for that matter) on the captor's turn. That means that it is feasible, even, for a unit to heal/act twice in a day: once on their captor's turn, and once after escaping (and getting hurt during the escape), or in the opposite direction, healing on their side's turn and then getting captured (as part of a failed offensive) and healing on their captor's turn.

    On a separate note, I'd like to point out that Wanda still hasn't confirmed that she had a mind-control spell on Jillian. In fact, Jillian doesn't even specifically mention it until a point were Wanda may have already stopped listening and started buffing... Jillian might not have noticed the transition. We can't tell where she's looking (it could be at Wanda, it could be at her sword). It's hard to say if her downward gaze earlier in the conversation is because she is looking down at Wanda (nice subtext there) or if she is looking down to avoid looking AT Wanda (the body language/facial expression suggests this, but I can't be sure).

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    I agree with you, but unfortunately I an quite sure Vinny will be dying soon. It will either be something that drives Jillian and Ansom apart, or cements their relationship, depending on whether or not Ansom blames Jillian for it.
    I wonder what happens to a group allied with Side X if the sole warlord from Side X dies?

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    In fact, It wouldn't surprise me if Vinnie is the only significant casualty of this battle. That would likely drive Jillian and Ansom apart, preserving the relationship tension into the next section. It could also put some interesting tension between Jillian and the Archons (that sounds like a rock&roll band ), though the Archons would likely still follow orders, as they must obey Charlie.
    That makes a lot of sense. It would also further erode the other warlords' confidence in Ansom, since he stuck his neck out ordering this sequence of actions, right after he arrogantly claimed innate superiority.

    From a purely plot-oriented perspective, Vinnie's death would represent a change in the entire tenor of the battle. It would then become an entirely personal and emotionally driven conflict (Ansom vs. Stanley/Parson, Jillian vs. Wanda) and the other parties to the Alliance would be within their rights to wonder if they wanted any part of that. Then Parson might actually have a chance.

    I note that there is something sort of like ironic foreshadowing that Stanley will come back in the nick of time.
    Last edited by Wender; 2008-05-04 at 10:55 PM.

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    In fact, It wouldn't surprise me if Vinnie is the only significant casualty of this battle.

    Sad as it would be, it would allow them to introduce his cousin, the joke I've been waiting for since I first read Vinnie's name.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Beguilement View Post
    Stanley seems to have been able to conspire against his own lord when he was but the chief warlord.
    Do we actually know this? I mean, yeah, the circumstances look suspicious, but as far as I know it's just speculation that Stanley was involved.

    Here's a thought: what if Wanda was behind the deaths of both Saline and Banhammer, knowing that would make Stanley her nominal ruler and she'd have an easy time manipulating him?

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    Default Re: 105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptorquemada View Post
    Do we actually know this? I mean, yeah, the circumstances look suspicious, but as far as I know it's just speculation that Stanley was involved.
    The facts:

    Stanley conviently left the capital city with the most important spell casters right when it was attacked by suddenly traitorous gobwins. As heir-designate, Stanley became an overlord. As such he had the most to gain from Saline being croacked. Furthermore, he believes he has a divine mandate/destiny to fulfill, and anything else is unholy or irrevelant to this mission. For example, loosing every battle before the Battle for Gobwin Knob did nothing to stop his enthusiasm for his mission. Regicide was a great logical step in completing this mission.

    Despite all this, the strip has never actually confirmed that Stanley put the plan in motion. This almost forces the reader to stop reading the strip and examin the creator's intention, and it does seem to indicate a surprising revelation regarding Saline's fall.

    Regardless, many characters suspect Stanley of regicide, and Ansom firmly believes it to be a fact.

    Here's a thought: what if Wanda was behind the deaths of both Saline and Banhammer, knowing that would make Stanley her nominal ruler and she'd have an easy time manipulating him?
    Any idea that calls Stanley easily controlled/manipulated/charmed is a non-starter for me. To quote from my Wanda=dilbert thread:

    Why would anyone think Stanley is easy to control? He's brash, impulsive, egotistical, and 100% confident in himself. Yes, occasionally, Wanda has managed to convince him do somethings in his own self interest once or twice, but there is a heck of a lot she hasn't managed to get him to do. The only way she managed to keep Stanley from sending Parson into battle was by distracting him for a little while, at which point his own brilliance made his own case for staying. Basically, Wanda has to be manipulative and clever to get Stanley to accept sound tactical advice, something any normal faction leader would take and follow with out the hoops to jump through.

    Thats not to say Wanda doesn't have a hidden agenda, as we certainly do not know much about her or her motivations.
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