105 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 95

[fendrin]

Assuming they obey orders better than Jillian herself usually does.

They probably will, though it wouldn't surprise me if Vinny was ordered/asked to protect Jillian... possibly the Archons too. Remember, at this point they are still part of the alliance and thus still bound to Ansom's orders over Jillian's.

[teratorn]

First, he needs to find out what's going on. So far as we know, all he's aware of is that a flyer incursion group just parked itself over the Tower of Efdup. My guess is that he intends to keep his head down. A fireworks show just above and outside his window might change his mind....

I'm more curious about what the cheat codes do than I am about Parson's reaction ("she can cheat?"). Besides, when he finds out what is going on it's quite probable it wil be finished by then. I bet Jaclyn gets croaked, and Jillian is heavily wounded, with some of the other units going down or sustaining heavy injuries while trying to recover her.

But after seeing this Parson should try some cheating of his own. One of the things that puzzles me about Parson is that he never tried to test his limits, for example seeing if he can leave his hex during the other side's turn, or even during the night.

[fendrin]

But after seeing Parson should try some cheating of his own. One of the things that puzzles me about Parson is that he never tried to test his limits, for example seeing if he can leave his hex during the other side's turn, or even during the night.

He had trouble walking DOWN several flights of stairs, but you expect him to cross a hex? I can't imagine him sitting on a dwagon, either. He's just too big.

Parson is a strategist, not a warrior. As I and others have said in the past, if he wins through cheating it will utterly ruin the strip for me.

I don't mind the idea of cheat codes as buff spells, but they shouldn't be without cost, because then Stanley would never have lost a city, and he (or at least Wanda) would already rule Erf and have all 4 known Arkentools. Parson never would have been summoned. Kind of destroys the premise, neh?

[teratorn]

He had trouble walking DOWN several flights of stairs, but you expect him to cross a hex? I can't imagine him sitting on a dwagon, either. He's just too big.

He doesn't have to move much. Suppose Parson can cross just the border of the hex during the night carrying a warlord and then tells that warlord to go and kill a few marbits, and to come back, so he can be carried again by Parson into GK. Ansom's camp would suspect of treason from inside, not an attack from GK. I don't expect that to work, but Parson should know by now some of the basic stuff, namely if he has non-zero move or not.

As I and others have said in the past, if he wins through cheating it will utterly ruin the strip for me

I would be ok as long those were minor things linked to the fact that Parson is not from Erfworld. I agree that something that turns him or one of his troops into the mega-warrior-from-doom would ruin the strip.

I don't mind the idea of cheat codes as buff spells, but they shouldn't be without cost, because then Stanley would never have lost a city, and he (or at least Wanda) would already rule Erf and have all 4 known Arkentools.

It can be a bit like having the croakmancer leading the undead, you only use it when everything else fails. But I don't expect these spells to be that powerful.

[Dragonath]

Discussion's run dry.

Time for a new update :D

[fendrin]

Discussion's run dry.

Time for a new update :D

It does seem to work like that sometimes...

[Curxzed]

How bout this then..

I think the spell or spells wanda is casting is from the pure croakamancy sphere.

Most of the codes have to do with not dying, moving through walls(ethereal like a ghost) etc. Motion, matter, and naughty. Right? Sounds like cheat codes to me.

[SteveMB]

How bout this then..

I think the spell or spells wanda is casting is from the pure croakamancy sphere.

Most of the codes have to do with not dying, moving through walls(ethereal like a ghost) etc. Motion, matter, and naughty. Right? Sounds like cheat codes to me.

Hmmm... since all we really know about Croakamancy is that it can animate croaked units as uncroaked, there's no way to really make an educated guess. (It does seem a bit limited to hold the exclusive interest of someone as clever as Wanda if that's all it's good for....)

The cheat codes may be references that have some relationship to the spell (like the "Hoffa"/"Livingston" words for making a message disappear at the sending end and reappear at the receiving end). Or they could just be random references like a lot of other things in the comic.

[Curxzed]

**yes this is mostly speculation**

Well, I would think you pull your best magic out of your primary class. Wanda doesn't look to be casting a simple light spell here.

And Necromancers (other dimensions version of croakamancers, but you knew that) almost NEVER fight battles alone, they have pets/subjects/minions etc. fight for them.

Also I went back and looked long and hard. The first panel of casting shows Wanda putting in all the codes, and hitting the extra select for another player.

The second panel is a closeup of the rift/hole/gate she opens when she hits her staff on the balcony floor. It appears the voice is coming FROM this rift. And it says, ominously, AYBABTU. If it had been Wanda saying it, the bubble would have pointed back and up, towards her.

The third panel is her commanding whatever she summoned to aggro, or maybe just finalizing the spell.

IMO, she is summoning a total baddy and it is pretty confident in its power.

Also, if you look at what Croakamancy is part of, it is Naughtymancy (matter + motion) Cheat codes are pretty naughty, don't you think? Add in fate to get the discipline.

I suppose it could be Changemancy. (Matter, under fate.) Or Findamancy, we have already seen Findamancy summon forcibly someone to her aid.

Regardless of what discipline it is I firmly believe she is summoning.

[teratorn]

Regardless of what discipline it is I firmly believe she is summoning.

That would be neat, although I would expect that summoning is something that can only be done during your turn (maybe that's why she's using the cheat codes).

Now we know those guys in the magic kingdom, given enough schmuckers, can pull the perfect warlord, what else can they sell summons for?

If you are right, and the "All Your Base..." reference comes from the summoned entity, what can that tell us about it?

[fendrin]

She is summoning CATS.

The message Wanda is trying to convey is 'You are on the way to destruction'.

Jillian's reaction will be to 'move every zig / for great justice'.

'Zig' must be the unit type of the unipegataurs.

[Wender]

She is summoning CATS.

The message Wanda is trying to convey is 'You are on the way to destruction'.

Jillian's reaction will be to 'move every zig / for great justice'.

'Zig' must be the unit type of the unipegataurs.

WHAT YOU SAY?!

[Jari Kafghan]

Make Your Time!

[Banjooie]

So, just out of curiosity, I wonder if Stanley's under any loyalty spells.

[Justyn]

So, just out of curiosity, I wonder if Stanley's under any loyalty spells.

If he was under one, I would wonder to whom. Aside from Wanda, who has the want and wherewithal to do something like that?

Though, in retrospect, Wanda may have had a suggestion spell on Stanley, and it was the breaking of the one on Stanley, rather than the one on Jillian, that caused her to go catatonic. I highley doubt that I am the first to go along this train of thought.

[SteveMB]

Though, in retrospect, Wanda may have had a suggestion spell on Stanley, and it was the breaking of the one on Stanley, rather than the one on Jillian, that caused her to go catatonic. I highley doubt that I am the first to go along this train of thought.

I'd thought of that as an explanation for why Wanda didn't go catatonic until well after Jillian's temporary collapse (based on Parson's comment, the battle is completely over by the time Wanda wanders off and collapses).

The other two explanations I can think of are:

1. The spell on Jillian didn't really break (at least not completely) until later (perhaps when Ansom charged to the rescue). Problem: Jaclyn would presumably know that Jillian was still under a spell, and would at least argue a bit about following her into battle under those conditions.

2. Wanda was hit by backlash at the same time Jillian collapsed, but wasn't completely knocked out of commission right away (perhaps they both took some backlash, and Wanda was able to hold up better). I forget who pointed out that she uttered only a couple of monosyllables after that (unlike her usual self, but very much like her speech in the last two pages. If so, then the fiasco of the lost battle and Stanley's anger might have pushed her over the edge.

[Jeivar]

Hi everybody, this is my first post. I just read discovered Erfworld today and read through the entire archive, and I'm officially hooked.

My thought for the latest update is as follows:

Am I the only one who thinks that Wanda's "Whhat . . . do . . . you want?" isn't her asking Jillian why they're having this conversation, but what Jillian wants in her life: An ordinary relationship with Ansom, or the BDSM-thing with Wanda?
Related to that, I don't think Wanda is powering up to kill her, but to smack her around for a bit and force an answer. What do you long-time people think?

BTW: I find it REALLY interesting to find a fantasy-comedy webcomic that features two major characters in a BDSM relationship. It's such a rare thing to see that I'm very curious to see where this leads.

[SteveMB]

Hi everybody, this is my first post. I just read discovered Erfworld today and read through the entire archive, and I'm officially hooked.

My thought for the latest update is as follows:

Am I the only one who thinks that Wanda's "Whhat . . . do . . . you want?" isn't her asking Jillian why they're having this conversation, but what Jillian wants in her life: An ordinary relationship with Ansom, or the BDSM-thing with Wanda?

Just wondering if you saw the cast page (listing of the significant characters encountered in the pre-Parson-summoning portion of the story) -- one of Jillian's listed "weaknesses" is "Knowing What She Wants"....

[Jeivar]

Just wondering if you saw the cast page (listing of the significant characters encountered in the pre-Parson-summoning portion of the story) -- one of Jillian's listed "weaknesses" is "Knowing What She Wants"....

Yes, I DID see that, which is partly what prompted my little theory. And if I'm right, I think our barbarian princess is in for a nasty experience as Wanda demands an answer.

I can't predict how dedicated I'll be to this forum, but I better just warn everyone that most of my posts will concern this subject. I like the Erfworld storyline, but well-rendered character relationships will always pull me in harder than anything else.

[Azukar]

This... wait... time... is... torture...

But yeah, on re-re-reading the strip, it does kinda look like she's summoning/raising something.

[Jeivar]

Oh, hey, could someone answer a little board etiquette question for me? Would it have been okay if I'd started a separate thread about my "What do you want?" theory, or are discussions about something in a particular page all supposed to stay within a single thread?

And now that I re-read page 105/95 I'm seeing a callback to the whole "When prisoner says the easy way..." thing. Well, Jillian just suggested the VERY easy way out again, and again she gets the very HARD way. :)

[SteveMB]

Oh, hey, could someone answer a little board etiquette question for me? Would it have been okay if I'd started a separate thread about my "What do you want?" theory, or are discussions about something in a particular page all supposed to stay within a single thread?

It's a judgment call whether to give a theory or speculation its own thread. It's probably prudent to play it safe and use the existing page thread until you get a bit more of a feel for the boards, though.

And now that I re-read page 105/95 I'm seeing a callback to the whole "When prisoner says the easy way..." thing. Well, Jillian just suggested the VERY easy way out again, and again she gets the very HARD way. :)

I hadn't thought of that, but yeah, it fits. There are a few other parallels (Wanda reacting angrily, or at least emphatically, to the suggestion that she should defect) as well as a few differences (Jillian dealing from a position of weakness the first time and from a position of strength this time).

[Jeivar]

It's a judgment call whether to give a theory or speculation its own thread. It's probably prudent to play it safe and use the existing page thread until you get a bit more of a feel for the boards, though.

Thanks. I'll keep it in mind.

[Richbin]

I say she is summoning ('insert cheat code') a ghost (IDCLIP) - as it can go through walls... (has completed the spell with Aybabtu, and given the order to attack - 'Aggro' to the invisible creature).

The ghost of whom? King Banhammer, maybe... this would really mess with Jillian, wouldn't it? Or maybe of Misty. who after all, was buried instead of left to disappear...
Although I can see Jaclyn giving her life to save Jillian, permitting Jillian to RUN AWAAAAAYYYY.... with the ghost on her tail. Or maybe, in the moment before the ghost is to kill Jillian, Wanda realizes her imminent and irreversible loss, and will have to sacrifice herself to save Jillian?
Argh. The suspense is driving me nuts.
Maybe Vinny will save the day?
Maybe the Archons will alter the balance?

What would make for a better story?
Parson needs Wanda to make his plan work and for Stanley to get his Foolamancer back online, so Wanda should not be removed from the picture.

Vinnie should croak - his doombat scouts will no longer be relevant (siege situation), cloaked targets, and his demise would put Ansoms' dramtis personae into more focus - having had words with Vinnie before his death, he would feel his loss far more personally, and it might serve to have him act even more rashly, with a spirit of vengeance.

Charlie's archons? So far, they are a deus ex machina like device, destroying dragons (albeit wounded ones) with little cost or effort, permitting communications easily, and perceiving and supplying magical intel defense. I really do hope these croak (I suspect there are more on their way to Stanley).

Jillian? The dynamic between her and Wanda is interesting, to say the least, but she is the only one to threaten Stanley at the moment, and we need her to advance that side of the plot, for if she is eliminated, there is no longer any sense of urgency for Stanley and the foolamancer.

So, the prognostic of the outcome? Both Wanda and Jillian survive, but Vinnie and the Archons are toast, and it is possible that both the female protagonists will be weaker, shaken and will have their main motives altered by this conflict... although if Jillian is weakenned sufficiently, then the Foolamancer might be less important (although Stanley is trying to sneak around) and therefore Wanda might well get croaked, leaving Parson with only his wits and a lot of gambling to undertake - good for him that he has a mathmancy, probability-altering gizmo on his wrist.

Regardless, Jillian needs to be brought down a few notches - down to her knees, as a matter of fact. She has stated she 'likes' it, but claims that Wanda went 'too far', which rightfully so, has Wanda infuriated, as she will demonstrate how wrong Jillian was - how far she 'could' have gone, and that she should not have gone and asked for the 'easy' way this time.
As a 'sub', she enjoys being submissive to Ansom who gives her orders, and is enjoying the newfound freedom of not being 'tortured'...

What I suspect she does not quite grasp is that if she were to prove more rebellious to Prince Handsome, he would reject her far more totally than Wanda had ever done, and hurt her more deeply. He reeks of arrogance of a sort far more distasteful than Wanda's.

They both (Ansome and Wanda) lust for power, but he does so from an approach of entitlement, whereas Wanda from a sense of accomplishment (her succesful dabbling of many different magics in order to pursue her ends).

Parson will have to figure in the next strip, as will Stanley... and I say as well that he is NOT going for FAQ, but for Charlies' dish (which, thinking about it, might be at FAQ). Seeing as he is a Thinkamancer supreme, I wonder if he did not get the goblins to revolt against Salive IV for the Tool in the first place... and then withdrew his support, his job complete, irritating Stanley to no end. Maybe that's the reason why Stanley did not rebuild FAQ - he HAD to return to put down the rebellion, and Charlie simply seized FAQ, and when Stanley wanted it back, Charlie said - 'its not part of the contract - FAQ is mine now', thus infuriating Stanley, who had been outwitted... which explains why he would never trust Charlie again - last time he dealt with him, he lost a city fair and square with him on his side... and now he will get his revenge, AND an ArkenTool, and a city completely defensible except from air units (or tunnelling ones), negating the alliance forces, or most of them.

Ooooh... this strip has drawn me in and is toying with my mind. I just love the caressing of my meningial membrane, the casual brushing by plots of my grey matter, and the teasing tendrils of characterization tickling my frontal lobes...

more, more, more!

[Jeivar]

Regardless, Jillian needs to be brought down a few notches - down to her knees, as a matter of fact. She has stated she 'likes' it, but claims that Wanda went 'too far', which rightfully so, has Wanda infuriated, as she will demonstrate how wrong Jillian was - how far she 'could' have gone, and that she should not have gone and asked for the 'easy' way this time.

Well, I think that's a little harsh. Jillian has every right to feel Wanda went too far by trying to control her freaking mind. I've actually been trying to figure out just why Wanda is so upset with Jillian. She has no way of knowing that Jillian slept with Ansom after the battle, and I think it should stand to reason that Jillian wouldn't want to stay under a compulsion spell indefinitely. Granted, Wanda is hardly a saint and her behavior doesn't necessarily have to be logical or ethical, but I still find myself trying to understand what exactly has driven her to this point.

I don't know, maybe she feels betrayed not so much because Jillian broke free of the spell, but because she helped win the battle for Ansom's side and so acted against Wanda's best interests. Given her supremely confident announcement that Jillian wouldn't harm someone she loved, and would absolutely NOT harm Wanda, she could have interpreted what followed as Jillian renouncing her feelings for Wanda.

Just a theory. The problem with webcomics is that you have way too much time between installments to come up with them.

[ideasmith]

Wanda expects Jillian to be more loyal to Wanda than to her side of the conflict. Meanwhile, Jillian expects Wanda to be more loyal to Jillian than to her side of the conflict. Jillian and Wanda are more loyal to their respective sides than to each other.

[SteveMB]

Well, I think that's a little harsh. Jillian has every right to feel Wanda went too far by trying to control her freaking mind. I've actually been trying to figure out just why Wanda is so upset with Jillian. She has no way of knowing that Jillian slept with Ansom after the battle, and I think it should stand to reason that Jillian wouldn't want to stay under a compulsion spell indefinitely. Granted, Wanda is hardly a saint and her behavior doesn't necessarily have to be logical or ethical, but I still find myself trying to understand what exactly has driven her to this point.

It could be that Wanda is in denial about the nature of her own actions (much as Jillian is in denial about Wanda being responsible for her own actions -- IMO, the reason Jillian refuses to believe that Wanda isn't bound by a loyalty spell is because such a spell would be a rationale for putting 100% of the blame on Stanley's head).

If Jillian and Wanda have a dom/sub relationship going back to when they were both Faq units, the war would have allowed them to resume it... but in a distorted form, with no genuine consent and real stakes on the line. Such a situation would be ripe for abuse, and ripe for opportunities to rationalize it away (e.g. "I don't really have any choice." or "At least I'm keeping her from getting croaked.").

[ShinyBrowncoat]

This... wait... time... is... torture...

Only now do readers begin to grasp how deeply woven into the strip BDSM truly is...

[Jeivar]

Only now do readers begin to grasp how deeply woven into the strip BDSM truly is...

So what's the safeword to make the pain stop?

[Jeivar]

It could be that Wanda is in denial about the nature of her own actions (much as Jillian is in denial about Wanda being responsible for her own actions -- IMO, the reason Jillian refuses to believe that Wanda isn't bound by a loyalty spell is because such a spell would be a rationale for putting 100% of the blame on Stanley's head).

If Jillian and Wanda have a dom/sub relationship going back to when they were both Faq units, the war would have allowed them to resume it... but in a distorted form, with no genuine consent and real stakes on the line. Such a situation would be ripe for abuse, and ripe for opportunities to rationalize it away (e.g. "I don't really have any choice." or "At least I'm keeping her from getting croaked.").

Hmm. Well, that's a perfectly valid theory, given that we still don't really know anything about Wanda's and Jillian's past relationship, and it could still fit with my "What do you want?" theory.
If you are indeed right about Jillian blaming Wanda's nastier actions on Stanley, that leaves me wondering if her feelings for Wanda will change now. She certainly didn't seem to hold any serious grudge against her mistress/enemy/friend before, she just didn't want to be spelled. But now the truth is out and undeniable, and they can't play their little game anymore: The war is coming to a bloody end. I guess their future relationship depends largely on the exact depths of Wanda's anger and her feelings for Jillian, and which of those will win out.