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Thread: ToB Samurai

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    Default ToB Samurai

    Samurai


    Hit Die: d10

    Class Skills
    Balance (Dex), Concentrate (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis)

    Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Table: The Samurai
    {table=head]Level|
    Base Attack[br]Bonus
    |
    Fort
    |
    Ref
    |
    Will
    |
    Manuevers[br]Known
    |
    Maneuvers[br]Readied
    |
    Stances[br]Known
    |Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    3
    |
    3
    |
    1
    |Ancestral daisho, ancestral finesse

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    3
    |
    3
    |
    1
    |Life in death (initiative)

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    4
    |
    3
    |
    1
    |Bonus feat

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    4
    |
    4
    |
    1
    |Koryu master (1d4)

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    5
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |Life in death (saves)

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    5
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |Staredown

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    6
    |
    4
    |
    2
    |Bonus feat

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    6
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |Koryu master (2d4), noble bearing

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    7
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |Life in death (AC)

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    7
    |
    5
    |
    3
    |Koryu master (sonic)

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    8
    |
    5
    |
    3
    |Bonus feat

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    8
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |Koryu master (3d4)

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    9
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |Reactive technique

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    9
    |
    6
    |
    3
    |

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    10
    |
    6
    |
    4
    |Bonus feat

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    10
    |
    7
    |
    4
    |Koryu master (4d4)

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    11
    |
    7
    |
    4
    |Life in death (damage)

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    11
    |
    7
    |
    4
    |Koryu master (force)

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    12
    |
    7
    |
    4
    |Bonus feat

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    12
    |
    8
    |
    5
    |Koryu master (5d4), soul and blade as one[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    As a samurai, you are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light and medium armor, but not with shields.

    Maneuvers
    You begin your career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to you are Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind, and White Raven. You may also choose one additional school from the following list that you may add to your schools known. You may select maneuvers from this school as normal. Once you make this choice you cannot change it. You may choose from Falling Star, Iron heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and Twin Spirit.

    Once you know a maneuver, you must ready it before you can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by samurai is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in it's description. Your maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one. You learn additional maneuvers at higher levers as shown on the table above. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it.

    Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered samurai level thereafter, you can chose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. The new maneuver may be of any level you can learn. You can swap only a single maneuver at any given level.

    Maneuvers Readied
    You ready your maneuvers by meditating for 5 minutes. The maneuvers you chose remain readied until you decide to meditate again and change them. You do not need to sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your maneuvers.

    You begin every encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how much you may have used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver you expend it for the current encounter.

    You can recover one expended maneuver by spending a standard action to demoralize an opponent with an Intimidate check or all expended maneuvers by using a full-round action to quickly meditate (this does not provoke attacks of opportunity).

    Stances Known
    You begin play with knowledge of one 1st level stance from any discipline open to samurai. At 5th level, and ever 5 levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th), you can chose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you are currently using as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated int he stance description.

    Unlike with maneuvers, you cannot learn a new stances at higher levels in place of one you already know.

    Ancestral Daisho

    A samurai favors the weapon passed down to him through his family. You begin your career with your ancestral daisho, which is always of masterwork quality. Your ancestral daisho depends upon which extra school you choose to learn:

    • Falling Star: Yumiya (Masterwork Composite Longbow)
    • Iron Heart: Nodachi (Masterwork Greatsword)
    • Stone Dragon: Naginata (Masterwork Glaive)
    • Tiger Claw: Katana (a masterwork bastard sword) and the wakizashi (a masterwork short sword)
    • Twin Spirit: Yari (Masterwork Lance)
    Because a samurai is focused in their use, you are proficient with your ancestral daisho (even it it's an exotic weapon).

    This weapon(s) may be enchanted as the Oriental Adventures Samurai's Ancestral Daisho.

    Ancestral Finesse

    Thanks to your life-long training with the weapon, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with your ancestral daisho. This works like the Weapon Finesse feat, except that it applies only to your ancestral daisho (even if the feat would not normally apply to it).

    Life in Death (Ex)

    At 2nd level you take a calm and patient view of the world, seeing the beauty and poetry in all things, and matching your rhythm to the world around you. You add your Wisdom modifier to your initiative rolls. At 5th level you understand yourself on a deeper level, and add your Wisdom modifier to your Fortitude and Reflex saves. At 9th level the flow of battle is a dance that you perform with grace and skill; you add your Wisdom modifier to your AC as long as you are in medium or light armor, or unarmored (this bonus applies to touch and flatfooted AC, but not when encumbered, using a shield, immobilized, or helpless). At 17th level you can see life even in the death that follow the strokes of your weapon; you add your Wisdom modifier to all damage rolls.

    Bonus Feat

    Due to your constant training and search for perfection, at 3rd level you gain a bonus feat from the fighter bonus feat list. You gain an additional bonus feat from the fighter bonus feat list at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels.

    Koryu Master (Ex)

    The speed at which you can wield your ancestral daisho is unrivaled. At 4th level, a number of times per day equal to your Initiative modifier, you may add 1d4 damage to the first attack made with your ancestral daisho in a round. This damage increases by 1d4 every four levels (2d4 at 8th, 3d4 at 12th, 4d4 at 16th, and 5d4 at 20th). At 10th level this extra damage becomes sonic damage. At 18th level it becomes force damage.

    Staredown (Ex)

    At 6th level your can lock your eyes with an opponent, intimidating them with your fearsome gaze. You gain a +4 competence bonus to Intimidate. At 10th level your skill on the battlefield is visible to all; you may use an Intimidate check to demoralize all opponents within 30 ft. as a standard action. At 14th level your abilities are quick to show themselves; you may use an Intimidate check to demoralize opponents within 30 ft. as a move action. At 18th level the deadly skill inherent in every breath you take radiates from you; you may use an Intimidate check to demoralize opponents within 30 ft. as a swift action.

    Noble Bearing (Ex)

    At 8th level the way in which you hold yourself commands the attention and respect of others. You can use an Intimidate check to demoralize someone you are not in combat with or do not threaten in combat (they must still be able to see you). At 12th level the nobility of your presence leaves a lasting impression; creatures you demoralize are shaken for a number of round equal to your Charisma modifier. At 16th level you give off such a sacred aura that even those normally oblivious or immune to it can sense something divine; you may demoralize opponents that are immune to fear or mind-affecting effects. At 20th level you have reached the pinnacle of your skill, smoothly flowing from form to form without rest; you may recover a single maneuver by demoralizing an opponent as a move action.

    Reactive Technique (Ex)

    At 13th level you gain a patience and insight that allows you to strike at the perfect moment with a devastating blow. When you make an attack of opportunity, you may perform a standard action martial strike instead of a normal attack a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier (min 1/day).

    Soul and Blade as One (Ex)

    At 20th level, you can focus your mind and body, guiding your weapon with such skill and precision that you may perform multiple maneuvers in the space of a heart beat. You may initiate two different martial strikes that each require a standard action or less as a single standard action. If they both call for an attack, you make only one attack and both maneuvers are applied to it. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher (min 1/day). After using this ability you must wait until you refresh your maneuvers as a full-round meditation to use it again.



    Yes, I know that samurai were superb horsemen and archers and so one, but this is a ToB oriented class. If there are great homebrew ToB schools for archery and mounted combat, post 'em and maybe we can work out some more.

    So opinions/comments/suggestions? I'm thinking that the Bonus feats shouldn't be from the fighter pool, but a more select offering, like the options the Warblade has. And most importantly is still needs a great capstone ability.

    NOTES:
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    EDIT #1 NOTES:
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    I haven't gotten to check out the two homebrewed martial schools yet, so I don't know how strong they are. And I'm thinking that the Iaijutsu Master needs to be altered so it will stay relevant for mounted combat and archery oriented builds, and not abusable by just drawing your weapon every round or something.
    EDIT #2 NOTES:
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    The Soul and Blade as One may still be nasty, perhaps Wis or Cha mod, whichever is lower? I'd also like to start writing is some fluff, but I'm not the best at that. We'll see how I do and you can pick it apart. ^_^ Oh, and I think I'm going to start on a custom list for the Bonus Feats.

    Right now, The class has a focus more on one crazy strong attack a turn, as opposed to full attack actions. What think you?
    EDIT #3 NOTES:
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    I still think that Koryu Master could be messed with a bit, but I'm overall liking the way it hits once a round. And Soul and Blade as One could probably use a tad more tweaking.
    EDIT #4 NOTES:
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    What do you think of the Life in Death changes? I think they're more flavorful than before. The Koryu Master change I'm not sold on, but that should reduce it's power just a bit without being too complicated. And yes, I'm still working on that bonus Feat list (I keep getting distracted by trivial things like work and life!)


    EDITS:
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    EDIT #1:
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    • Added Ancestral Finesse
    • Added Handle Animal to class skills
    • Added Spot to class skills
    • Added additional schools and one school you choose at 1st level
    • Made the Demoralize action to regain maneuvers a standard action
    • Added the different ancestral weapons with the new schools
    • Added the OA Samurai's enchantment ability
    • Added Soul and Blade as One
    • Changed Fort save to good progression
    EDIT #2:
    Spoiler
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    • Changed Fort save to poor progression
    • Allowed Soul and Blade as One to use any maneuvers and added the refresh requirement
    • Changed Iaijutsu Master from dealing the damage on all attacks made the round of drawing the weapon to the first attack every round.
    EDIT #3
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    • Added the Naginata as an Ancestral Weapon
    • Added Stone Dragon as an optional school
    • Renamed Iaijutsu Master to Koryu Master
    EDIT #4
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    • Added Martial Lore to Class skills
    • Changed Life in Death's Wis instead of Con to HP into Wis to AC
    • Changed Life in Death's Wis instead of Dex for AoOs into strike on AoOs Wis mod/day
    • Changed Demoralizing an opponent to recover one maneuver instead of all maneuvers
    • Added recovering a maneuver by Demoralizing an opponent as a Move action to Staredown
    • Added the Init/per day to Koryu Master
    EDIT #5 3/29/2011
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    • Cleaned up a large amount of formatting and made abilities gained more visible on the class table
    • Added a little bit of fluff to the various class abilities, so the class wasn’t just a crunch-fest
    • Separated Reactive Technique from Life in Death, and specified that you can only use standard action strikes
    • Specified that Soul and Blade as One can only combine martial strikes that each take a standard action or less
    • Divided Staredown’s abilities into it and Noble Bearing
    Last edited by MammonAzrael; 2011-03-29 at 05:04 PM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Needs a capstone
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    I know. I say that at the bottom of my post. I'm pondering it, and I'm thinking something that has to do with maneuvers, but I don't know yet. Ideas are appreciated.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Very nice...I think I may actually use this. I was going to make my own, but never considered making it ToB. Works well. I also was planning on including something similar to your Iaijutsu damage bonus on round weapon is drawn.

    One idea, as an improvement to Iaijutsu Master and a sort of capstone, is that during the round it is drawn it is Vorpal.

    Another thing I can envision is some bonus to criticals. It seems applicable for a Samurai.

    Seems like all of it is straight skill, so I can't think of any of the abilities being lost if you become Ronin. That'd be awesome though. I set up a system for repentance from Ronin: find a Daimyo who will accept your services, work for him for a year or two, then commit Seppuku and get resurrected, probably at your own cost.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Thanks. The Vorpal thing is very in keeping with the crazy movie-version of the samurai.

    I tried not to give the class any abilities it would lose going ronin. Because really, going ronin does erode your skills, just your support. So that would all be fluff, and how NPCs would react and such. Shouldn't affect his fighting capabilities.

    The critical suggestion is also pretty interesting...increase the threat range, multiplier, or both? Or give Imp Crit automatically? Or something else? Hmmm...
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Increase the multiplier for the capstone, that's a pretty nice level 20 ability to have.

    And don't bother with the ronin beyond some stuff in the fluff about how many samurai have lords, those who don't are ronin and are socially stigmatized blah blah blah.

    But yeah, good stuff.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    The vorpal capstone would be nasty if it was based upon the round the weapon is drawn. A Crystal of Return would make it scary lethal.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Yeah, I'd go with Ronin as a solely "Everyone in your home culture hates you" kind of issue. Just RP, but still very detrimental.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    I would add Stone Dragon to the list of disciplines available because all the ToB classes get that.

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    There's a homebrew falling star discipline I saw somewhere that did archery.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Nice. I'm confused about the recovery method, doesn't that mean that at level 18, it can recover its maneuvers as a swift action? Time Stands Still every turn is pretty powerful, I think. I don't have much experience with ToB so I'm not sure.
    Last edited by UglyPanda; 2008-05-02 at 08:28 PM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    First of all, Ancestral Daisho needs to do so much more than just be masterwork weapons. Oriental Adventures Samurai entire ability of the same name should be used here. He also needs a high fortitude save to go with the will save.

    A capstone ability would be nice...but ideas are escaping me right now...perhaps the ability to activate two maneuvers simultaneously (instead of two stances like a warblade.)

    The Iajutsu Master PrC in OA is also capable of Finessing their Katana. (Usually still weilding it two handed but that doesn't matter.) This is a minor ability that could easily be added at level 1 to allow for more versatile character builds.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Staredown is cool ability; I don't remember seeing it elsewhere. Did you make it up yourself?

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    First of all, I like this. Most of the time I hate all Samurai classes, but this one actually impresses me. You put some thought and work into this.

    I dig the recovery method set up for this class, very cool. You didn't cop out and say "recovery method as" like most people do. Good for you. I second watsyurname529's suggestion in adding Stone Dragon to the list of Disciplines (everyone gets it), and if you did decide to, I'd suggest removing Devoted Spirit from the class.

    Lastly, I also second all of Talya's suggestions here. All of them would go that extra step to finish this class out.

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    Last edited by ErrantX; 2008-05-02 at 08:46 PM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Thanks for all the feedback! Ok, to get to all these...

    Behold_the_Void: Should the multiplier increase just apply to the katana and wakizashi, do you think? and I plan on keeping any ronin stuff strictly fluff. Speaking of, I'd like fluff to be added at some point, instead of the barebones crunch it is now.

    Hadrian_Emrys: Vorpal is a strong contender, my only issue with it is that it's repeatable as an enchantment, so it's not unique, it only occurs 5% of your attacks, and plenty of creatures are immune to it, which sucks. Perhaps toss it on in addition to a unique capstone ability?

    Icewalker: That's the plan.

    watsyurname529: I thought about that for a while. I didn't feel that most of the Stone Dragon maneuvers were "samurai-ish" (but you're welcome to tell me your interpretation of them!). One of the reason I didn't give them Stone Dragon was because the three official classes have access to it, I wanted to throw some changes in with the class.

    streakster: Falling Star...Fax made that, right? I think I've glanced over it, but not really in depth. Has anyone had a chance to play with it, see how it works out? Thanks. Anyone make a mounted combat school?

    UglyPanda: That's a great point, I had missed that! Perhaps if the recovery mechanic was Demoralizing an opponent as a Standard Action? That should take care of absurd abuse, I think.

    Talya: I know about the Ancestral Daisho from the OA Samurai, and I'm not terribly impressed. Unless I'm reading it wrong, you still have to pay the normal amount of cash to upgrade the weapons. The only differences is that it restricts the level you can advance it, and it's much better in a low-magic setting. Is there anything I'm missing there?

    I really would like the signature capstone to involve maneuvers somehow, since it's a ToB class...doing two strikes could be interesting...I'll think more on it.

    And I'll check out the Iaijutsu Master PrC, thanks!

    Zeta Kai: Staredown is originally from the CW Samurai, but I modified it quite a bit. So, sadly, I can't claim credit on this one. Glad you like it though.

    ErrantX: Thanks! I've seen a lot of Samurai threads recently, which is what inspired this. And I didn't want to do just a quick fix. I'm happy to hear you like it!

    I explained my iffiness to Stone Dragon in my response to watsyurname529, but it's easily includible. Devoted Spirit is certainly the least fitting of the four schools I gave the Samurai, my thinking was that it was representing the Samurai doing the peaceful, Bushido meditation thing, getting in touch with himself, the world, etc, and forming a supernatural connection. Yeah, kinda stretchin' a bit.

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Actually, I think that Tiger Claw would fit better than either Stone Dragon or Devoted Spirit. It'd also have the added benefit of lending direct support to the katana/wakizashi dual-wielder flavor of samurai.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Talya: I know about the Ancestral Daisho from the OA Samurai, and I'm not terribly impressed. Unless I'm reading it wrong, you still have to pay the normal amount of cash to upgrade the weapons. The only differences is that it restricts the level you can advance it, and it's much better in a low-magic setting. Is there anything I'm missing there?
    Yes, you're missing something.

    The sacrifice they make to improve their daisho can be cash or items. They get full value from such items. That means every item that your party loots that you normally sell for 1/2 value, they get full market value for in their sacrifice. This essentially means they can get their upgrades for half the market price. Or from another perspective, they get them for the same cost as if crafting them themselves, only without needing the craft feats or specific spells for whatever ability they want.

    They also get to fully customize their weapon. Even in higher magic settings, most DMs don't provide a high level wizard/blacksmith to make weapons with the exact features to order.

    Lastly, ancestral daisho is based on character level, not class level, so if they choose to multiclass out or PRC, they get to continue advancing their daisho. (Also, they do get those boosts at about the same point your party starts having the possibility of getting them as loot drops or purchases, only they get them cheaper and custom-to-order.)

    If you normally play in unusually high magic settings, you can always drop the level they get their upgrades by -1 or -2.
    Last edited by Talya; 2008-05-03 at 09:33 AM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Finesse would definitely be good, because it'd make the TWF Samurai much easier to pull off (don't need to worry about pumping up Strength for to-hit rolls alongside the high Dex for the TWF tree). You could make the capstone ability something like "may use two maneuvres on the turn they draw their weapon" (that's assuming you can't already do that- I know there's a whole array of types- strikes, counters, the buffy ones...).
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Except...am I wrong, or did samurai not do two weapon fighting at all. To my understanding the katana was the weapon, and the wakizashi was just like a spare knife and a ritualistic blade.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    It's a popular perception, though, and who says D&D has to be real?
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Quote Originally Posted by MorkaisChosen View Post
    It's a popular perception, though, and who says D&D has to be real?
    I have always wondered where that "it's a popular perception" thing came from, myself. Around here, most people, when they think "samurai", think something in the style of Kenshin or even The Bride, single katana and absolutely nothing else, and would be completely mistified by the mere mention of samurai dual-wielding. Hell, I have to remind most people that the samurai daisho was a pair of weapons, and that they also used quite a variety of other weapons such as bows or spears.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    I have always wondered where that "it's a popular perception" thing came from, myself. Around here, most people, when they think "samurai", think something in the style of Kenshin or even The Bride, single katana and absolutely nothing else, and would be completely mistified by the mere mention of samurai dual-wielding. Hell, I have to remind most people that the samurai daisho was a pair of weapons, and that they also used quite a variety of other weapons such as bows or spears.
    In OA, of all the various Samurai clans, only one of them actually gains Exotic Proficiency: Katana and TWF as available bonus feats. The rest have to either take those feats as part of their character progression (outside of class bonus feats), or weild the katana two handed. It does not in any way assume they are dual weilding. Iajutsu Master as a PrC is only available to a clan that does not gain those TWF bonus feats, so basically, the one PrC that allows them to finesse a katana, doesn't generally use it one handed.

    (I love the OA book, btw.)
    Last edited by Talya; 2008-05-03 at 11:34 AM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Miyamoto Musashi might have something to do with it. He used two weapons and his school of martial arts specialized in dual-wielding. Swordsmen had the wakizashi as a backup, not as a serious weapon. It's only in gaming that a katana and wakizashi are used together. Musashi himself used a jitte, not a wakizashi.
    Last edited by UglyPanda; 2008-05-03 at 12:48 PM.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Historically speaking the only "Samurai" who ever fought with two weapons was Miyamato Musashi who was more of a traveling duelist than a Samurai (in that he never really served a lord and also never bathed... making it very unlikely he was even recognized as part of the nobility). He maintains a popular influence over Japaneses popular culture references to Samurai because he went his entire life undefeated (though he stopped fighting with metal swords rather early in his career).

    His historic rival was a man named Yagyu Munenori who lived at the exact same time as Musashi though the two of them never fought. Musashi lived a ronin's life and challenged countless people to duals defeating each of them in turn while Munenori served as an adviser and teacher to his lord and only fought one time in his life (killing seven men either while or shortly after standing while in his mid 40s).

    Their thoughts and teachings were recorded in two of the more famous books about Japaneses swordplay and bushido:

    Miyamato Musashi's Book of the Five Rings (orriginally book of the five scrolls).
    Yagyu Munenori's "The life giving Sword".

    Musashi suggested a number of tactics and tricks to avoid letting the other person get the upper hand and talked about a number of very aggressive tactics. He advocated never giving the enemy room for rest and never turning your back on any enemy but a corpse (and even then only a disarmed one).

    Munenori's teachings were more philosophical in nature but they stemmed more from patients and tactical understanding. His final school of sword play was more about turning one's opponent's energies against them than in matching them blow for blow. A master of the Yagyu school should be able to kill an opponent using the opponent's sword (because once you truely master the sword, any sword on the field of war is your sword).

    I see both of these schools working better as Prestige classes since they were very unique cases.

    Musashi's adepts would likely favor two weapon fighting (if actually emulating Musashi then using a Katana in each hand with a single wakasashi in reserve) and most of the stone dragon stances and maneuvers would work here. They'd be aggressive, hard to move, and cunning.

    Munenori's adepts would likely favor defensive styles not unlike the duelist with access to white raven (if emulating the real Munenori) or setting sun (but only at later tiers of mastery).

    The nice thing about your class as you have it set up so far is that you could mostly fill either shoe rather well.


    As an alternate capstone I might suggest something that comes from older samurai films instead of more recent potrayals:

    Master Duelist: If the Samurai wins initiative they may choose to hold a standard action (as normal) to attack on their opponent's turn with full Iajatsu strike bonus only they may still make a number of attacks as though using the full attack action if they choose not to use a maneuver. If a foe attempts to strike the Samurai while they are holding their action they may make their full attack before the effects of the enemies rolls are applied. The first attack roll made in this fashion is an automatic threat for a critical hit.

    Reason: In all of the older samurai films, a battle between two skilled warriors was determined in a single blow (Old OA Iajatsu fluff) but in the films it was always the person who moved first who died.

    Though I mentioned setting sun in this post, I don't think that the vast majority of Samurai should get it, historically speaking they were much more war time commanders than martial artists as we currently think of them.

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Nice. However, I would change the Iaijutsu Master to once per encounter since it's pretty cheap for a character to sheathe and draw all the time to get bonus damage. Something that could be a lot of fun, give characters who draw the katana two-handed more dice for the Iaijutsu technique. 2d4 at 4th, 3d4 at 8th, 4d4 at 12th, 6d4 at 16th, and 8d4 at 20th. This way, you give characters the option to play between the two-handed duelist or the two weapon fighter.

    Also, the regaining maneuvers should be done only once you have depleted all of your maneuvers.

    Finally, I agree with Talya on the Ancestral Daisho from OA would make a great class feature
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    i really don't se stone dragon as fitting, or at least not enough to merit giving another discipline. and i don't see the logic of 'every other class gets it', especially when we are talking about the 3 core tob classes, versus all of the homebrew classes, of which, not all of them have stone dragon.

    i would drop sd, and instead give it demented one's twin spirit discipline:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40991

    and tempest stormwind's falling star discipline:
    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=771597

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Actually, having different sets of available schools depending on a character's preferred styles would make a lot more sense.

    So... something like: Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, and White Raven plus one more based on the preferred style.

    Mounted: Twin Spirit
    Two Weapon: Tiger Claw
    Two Handed: Iron Heart
    Archery: Falling Star

    I do not have my ToB handy to tinker with the details, but something along those lines would be a great way to avoid needles PrCs by applying enough options to just the core class.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    I like Hadrian_Emrys' idea. And reiterate that I think Ancestral Daisho should be added.

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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    ok, hadrian's idea is the best so far, but think that tempest's and demented's disciplines would fit well among the choices.
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    Default Re: ToB Samurai

    Wait, you DO think they will fit well, or DON'T?

    In any case, I think that IF the Diasho is included, it would be better altered to match the chosen style. So... A Katana (Bastard Sword) and Wakazashi (Shortsword) / Nodachi(Greatsword) / Yari (Lance) / Yumiya (Composite Longbow).
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