Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 110
  1. - Top - End - #61

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kizara's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ownageville (OV)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.
    I think what the majority of people here are saying is that they feel it wasn't in good taste for wizards to actively give bad advice in their books to newer players. You have to literally learn to ignore any kind of advice or suggestion of playstyle in the books to optimize with any brains at all.

    Also, that the different between complexity/options/playing skill and broken aspects (CoDzilla) isn't reasonable.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Artemician's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Singapore.

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.
    You get an ego boost out of pimping a non-existent character out in a table-top game where the rules are changeable at the whims and fancies of a a Game Master?

    I don't know about you, but the large majority of us play Table top Role-Playing Games to, you know, Roleplay. Not getting screwed over for picking any particular character concept facilitates better roleplay.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Project_Mayhem's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Avatar by RPGs!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    I quit playing GW games when I purchased a pile of their miniatures which were being offered for sale at their eponymously named store. Hey, they never had a sale before, I dropped a bundle. I even remarked on the unprecedented sale to the two clerks in the store. "You guys never run sales, what's up?" "Oh, nothing really." I then spent hours painting my new miniatures. And then I showed up to play in one of their evening games hosted in their stores. And was told that they had released a new miniature line and that no one could play with the "old" miniatures in their store. Regardless of the fact that they had been purchased there.

    They got me, but that was the last cent I've ever spent on a GW product and the last time I set foot in one of their stores. I even like their paints but found a different manufacturer to avoid spending another dime on GW products. And I tell this story to all of my gaming friends, to attempt to dissuade them from taking the GW hook.
    Thats horrible. A burn-down-the storeable offence.

    However, I'm pretty sure thats not standard GW policy, more your local one being jerks. They would never have done that at my local one - hell, half the staff used retro figures. Also, mine frequently ran sales.

    Although, I've been out of the loop since the newest version of Warhammer - as far as I'm concerned, seventh edition never happened - so this might be a recent thing.

    Raz's formspring

    You wake up at Seatac, SFO, LAX. You wake up at O'Hare, Dallas-Fort Worth, BWI. Pacific, mountain, central. Lose an hour, gain an hour. This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Banned
     
    Talic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    I've never had this problem.

    Maybe it's because I look at things from a "DM with powergamers" perspective. Whenever I get a new sourcebook, I read it, but the first thing I read is all the mechanics. And I ask myself, "How will this impact my game?" I find about 1 in 4 combos before the boards do, and a few the boards don't, here and there.

    After I see the mechanics, I figure WHERE that class/feat/ability would be in my game. Then I put it there. Then, and only then, do I look at the fluff, and, if it doesn't match my concept? I change it, unless it looks really good.

    Note how I didn't read the "advice". I figure my opinion is as good as anyone's, and they're never going to actually put one of the twisted power combos my players will try to find (academic exercise, mostly) in that section, nor will it impact the fluff. I've got a good notion of playing most classes anyway, so it's not a big deal.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The sunny South
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.
    Putting the empty elitist stuff aside for a moment, lets try this.

    Did you sign up to buy a book with one in three pages left blank?
    That is essentially what you are saying is a good thing, you payed cash dollars for content that they knew was crap, are you still happy with this?

    I still think it's an after the fact cop out to justify a poor product, but if it's for real it isn't just those that trust the books advice that are being slatted it's everyone that bought it, everyone who has jumped on their high horse to defend it. So don't pat yourself on the back and say I'm ok cos I just ignored the rubbish printed in the books I bought, you got hosed too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly View Post
    I am now going to begin blaming everything that goes wrong on Charity. Just for gits and shiggles. And not even just things on the forums. Summer! Charity!

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Ha. Custom made for the powergamer, that's awesome.

    Regardless, I still like the the 3.5 system and if you ignore the powergaming aspects of it, you can still have fun as a roleplayer, which is the interesting part to begin with.

    I still think that's awesome, a poorly designed book with useless content motivated only by economics and the need for more.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    By all means, point me to an oficial D&D advertisement that says D&D is not only 100% balanced but also it doesn't reward in any way more skilled players by playing.

    And then you can go ask microsoft why their operating system crashes randomly for everything and anything, yet it is used by 99% of the computers out there since we're at it.

    EDIT:Actually, point me to ANY game wich doesn't reward the players for having experience in it.
    I dunno... I believe that punishing casual players that just want to have fun, and not expend thousands of dollars into tons of books and spend weeks devouring every rule.... is a bad policy.
    As it was said, if you WANT to pick a bad option (bastards swords are fun. whee), it's fine. If you are punished just for playing the game (like picking monk or fighter instead of wizard or druid), you are making more and more people leave the game, and potentially losing more money. Nowadays, only the hardcore fans (and those with hope of a better game) and newbies currently care for D&D. Everyone else is going for others game systesm.

    Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
    "In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
    My friend's quote: "Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
    Class variant:Fighter
    Fun Stuff:Mushrooms

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    KIDS's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Croatia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    It's all very sad. I myself like small chunks of "better choice" and synergy, but the amount to which it exists in 3.5 is plainly ludicrous for a team game. Now I can blame Monte Cook :P
    There is no good and evil. There is only more and less.
    - Khorn'Tal
    -----------------------------------------
    Kalar Eshanti

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas...for now
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.
    I want balance similar to what you would see in an RTS. Every side has about the same power, and certain combinations work together well, so an experienced player can succeed, but balance is the default. I don't want weak options thrown in as traps, because that is wasted space. I'm not playing the game to win, I'm playing it to have fun, and me and my friends all contributing equally when we have built to match our concepts with equal optimization should be the basis, not the exception.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    warmachine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Reading, England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    My thoughts are: You've got to be ****ing kidding me. WotC deliberately wrote worthless junk to hurt the casual players? They need to get psychiatric help.
    Matthew Greet
    My purpose in life is to play games.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    Except not. It can't compete with the Infinite Titan Gate Chain, or just with infinite Wishes.
    Well no, but it's generally poorly written and poorly balanced. The Devotion feats are a good example, as is Fist of the Forest and a number of the others. Core has a few really stupid combos, but everything I've seen from Complete Champion is bollox. That said, I do admit to quitting in disgust after only reading a few pieces. It's the only WotC book I refuse to use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    Candle of Invocation. Which leads to infinite Gate chains or infinite Wishes. 'nuff said. And why would you ignore spellcasters?
    You wouldn't, but a lot of people do when talking about ToB so I thought I'd mention it. It does significantly change the dynamics of the game with regards to relative power levels, so it bears mentioning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    Except that the Urban Ranger is just a Ranger designed for an urban setting. Normal D&D games don't tend to take place mostly in cities. The Urban Ranger for an urban game just brings the ranger back up to where he'd normally be.
    The Ranger was only one example. The Monk fighting styles, the Wilderness Rogue, the Battle Sorcerer, and the various Specialist Wizard Variants are other examples of things where are not particularly more powerful than their default alternatives, but increase the power of the system due to making choices that synergize. I understand the Battle Sorc is generally thought to be underpowered compared to a pure Sorc, but a player heading for any of the gish PrCs might get good milage out of it. A Wilderness Rogue is only barely better than a standard Rogue, if at all, but a Barbarian / Wilderness Rogue is a significantly better mix than a Barbarian / Classic Rogue, because many of his most important skills (ie Survival) stay class skills the whole time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Reel On, Love View Post
    But, yes. Splatbooks tend to raise the average power--but that's for the best; a Core + CWarrior game is more balanced than a Core-Only game, for example.
    Agreed - CW brought its own platter of cheeses, but it is more balanced than Core for the most part, and the game is better off with it.

  13. - Top - End - #73

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    I don't know about you, but the large majority of us play Table top Role-Playing Games to, you know, Roleplay. Not getting screwed over for picking any particular character concept facilitates better roleplay.
    Wait, we may have an important discuss point here.

    In wich way having a weacker character hinders you from roleplaying?


    This is, even if you're playing a commoner with 8 in all his stats and who wields a broken club, what makes that character harder to roleplay thant Mike the prodigiy wizard who rolled 18s in all his stats?

    You're right, D&D is a roleplaying game. There is nothing I can remember stoping you from roleplaying your character the way you want it.

    Two more points:

    1-Yes I like building stuff up, looking for combos and sinergies. I started playing MTG before D&D and the spirit never left. Just like I enjoy digging trough my card collection seeking for bizarre combinations and building decks, I like digging trough Wotc books looking for bizzarre combinations and building characters, just for the heck of building them.

    2-Many many computer RPGs have useless stuff on them. Final Fantasy, for example, despite being popular, only has one valid strategy at end game, wich is to stab stuff to death while throwing non elemental nukes, because the freacking enemies are either immune to anything but pure damage or can be killed in one hit anyway. You have all those amazing special powers like death and earthquake and hold and 99% of the times they're completely useless, yet FF is a very popular series.

    To charity:
    Start sarcasm

    Ok, I'll google something up. Arghhh publicity! It's eating my eletrecity and my bandwitch and making me lose time! Google is clearly evil, I'll never use it again...OMG I bought a product and the package is too big! It's clearly evil, burn it burn it to the ground..

    Pfff I think I'll read a book....No! The letters are too big! It's such a waste of paper! It hurts my eyes! What's this? Omg this site has so much open space It's clearly the worck of an evil sadic overmind...

    Sleep...Yes...No, my body has so much things that could be better humanity is cleary an abomination of nature! I must purge the world of those dirty walcking apes(takes flamethrower and goes in a killing spree).
    end sarcasm

    Now, seriously, if we would complain about every waste of resources we see, I wouldn't do anything but complain. Waste is expected. Actually, If I ever see a product that isn't wasting my money in any way, I'll be greatly admired.

    It's not the amount of uselss garbage that matters. It's the amount of uselss stuff in the middle of the barbage wich you can extract by yourself that matters.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2008-05-06 at 01:14 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Behold_the_Void's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Piercing the heavens!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    I've never had this problem.

    Maybe it's because I look at things from a "DM with powergamers" perspective. Whenever I get a new sourcebook, I read it, but the first thing I read is all the mechanics. And I ask myself, "How will this impact my game?" I find about 1 in 4 combos before the boards do, and a few the boards don't, here and there.

    After I see the mechanics, I figure WHERE that class/feat/ability would be in my game. Then I put it there. Then, and only then, do I look at the fluff, and, if it doesn't match my concept? I change it, unless it looks really good.

    Note how I didn't read the "advice". I figure my opinion is as good as anyone's, and they're never going to actually put one of the twisted power combos my players will try to find (academic exercise, mostly) in that section, nor will it impact the fluff. I've got a good notion of playing most classes anyway, so it's not a big deal.
    That's a good strategy, one I wish I had the time to adopt. Generally I go to the boards to find out about whatever particular exploits there are, since I can't really do that myself.

    That being said, if the advice is worthless (I tend to ignore it all myself) why are they wasting my space and money with it? That's the kind of thing that gets on my nerves.


    Incredibly GAR avatar by Ninja_Chocobo.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Ya know. I think the imabalance mentioned in M:tG made a lot of sense. The whole purpose of the game was that it was collectible. Nobody used Craw Wurm because it was a great card. They used 'em because it came with every starter pack. I don't think WotC ever saw Magic going as far as it did. I think the original goal was a game where you didn't know what your opponent would play because he'd use a completely different set of cards, some of which you'd never seen before. They did not anticipate the internet publishing and analyzing each card in a new expansion before the cards were even printed. Making some collectibles better than others made sense in that sort of game.

    It does not make sense in D&D. At least not as described in the Monte Cook quotation. I think Monte got it backwards. Rather than adding in traps for newbies, there should be bonuses for serious players. Heighten spell seemed pointless when I first started. I mean, why would I heighten a fireball when I already had cone of cold? The cone had a higher damage cap.

    I think WotC has been better lately about releasing content with a stronger baseline. Give a newb a Beguiler and he'll have a solid character. The character will be better if you read the CharOps board, but it will certainly be playable out of the box. Having newbs play decent characters while optimizers play optimized characters seems like a better game than one in which newbs play gimps and optimizers play optimized characters.
    If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Banned
     
    Rutee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    So.. when was the date on Monte Cook's post? Mulling it over, I've come to agree with the folks that he's trying to save face as a game designer rather then own up to sucking.

  17. - Top - End - #77

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Probably. He knows he is sux0rz and will never measure up to Gygax or Steve Jackson, so he tries to look like a bastard instead of an idiot.

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    The whole immbances things, for all the good reasons, are not nessisarly worth it.

    It says, "Play like this, use these feats, or you totaly suck and are bitchified."

    I want to be a fighter, I want to be the hero, run into burning buildings, beat up bandits, wear shiney armour with spikes, ect

    But noooo, pure fighters suck, and anybody who chooses them over even swashbucklers is a total ****ing moron!

    The immbalances force you to pick effectiveness over cool. And that's not fun.



    The other thing I hate is as DM, players who "master" a single class, know all the ins and outs, how to abuse the hell out of it. Then ask me if it's ok, saying it's just a melee class. The DM needs to know all the rules, that's alot of work, they simply don't have the time or effort to focus on each and every class to learn it inside and out.
    PC 1- *singing" Robin hood and little John running through the forest trying to get away...
    PC 2- Hey, you are right, this reminds me of that too.
    DM- Except that the king was king 348 years ago, and has undead powers...

  19. - Top - End - #79
    Banned
     
    Rutee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Justin Achilli is probably better, and I can not think of a more damning insult for a game designer.

    Also, yeah, this is sour grapes. The DnD for Dummies that he linked to said "3.5, coming soon!", which means it's 2k5 or near it. 5 years of people slamming his product? Yeah, that's pretty much as sour as grapes get.

  20. - Top - End - #80

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    That's what the charop boards are for. Or the immortal answer: "Gimme some time to check everything out. D'you have a list of resources?"

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2008

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Personally, I think I have spent more time and found more joy in trying to find most interesting and best working mechanical solutions than... Well... Doing anything else DnD related, really. As it seems likely any of the biggest gaps (like spellcasters vs. non-spellcasters) weren't intentional, I really don't mind small gaps at all.

    That said, every system is a bit unbalanced so actually building those slight "errors" seems unnecessary.

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutee View Post
    Also, yeah, this is sour grapes. The DnD for Dummies that he linked to said "3.5, coming soon!", which means it's 2k5 or near it. 5 years of people slamming his product? Yeah, that's pretty much as sour as grapes get.
    Huh? It links to Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies for me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...099416-8835107

    He says 'six years of hindsight', so I guess maybe 2006? 3.5 was released in 2003, he already said his piece on that subject... Monte Cook's Review of D20 1.5e

    [Edit]
    Nah, D&DfD was published April 2005, so must have been about then.

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyPacifist View Post
    Personally, I think I have spent more time and found more joy in trying to find most interesting and best working mechanical solutions than... Well... Doing anything else DnD related, really. As it seems likely any of the biggest gaps (like spellcasters vs. non-spellcasters) weren't intentional, I really don't mind small gaps at all.
    Ah well, that means that you are in the target audience demographic [i.e. people who like to optimise for fun]. Personally, I find that deadly boring, but that's just my subjective preference. If I had known the game was designed to appeal to that demographic I could have saved myself a lot of time, but it has been an interesting journey.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2008-05-06 at 01:56 PM.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The sunny South
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    To charity:
    Start sarcasm

    Ok, I'll google something up. Arghhh publicity! It's eating my eletrecity and my bandwitch and making me lose time! Google is clearly evil, I'll never use it again...OMG I bought a product and the package is too big! It's clearly evil, burn it burn it to the ground.

    Pfff I think I'll read a book....No! The letters are too big! It's such a waste of paper! It hurts my eyes! What's this? Omg this site has so much open space It's clearly the worck of an evil sadic overmind...

    Sleep...Yes...No, my body has so much things that could be better humanity is cleary an abomination of nature! I must purge the world of those dirty walcking apes(takes flamethrower and goes in a killing spree).
    end sarcasm...
    I think you may have missed the point somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Now, seriously, if we would complain about every waste of resources we see, I wouldn't do anything but complain. Waste is expected. Actually, If I ever see a product that isn't wasting my money in any way, I'll be greatly admired..
    Your purchasing standards are clearly much lower than mine, though I think I ought to disabuse you of the notion that this is my main gripe.

    Mine is not really a complaint about wasted resources, galling though that is. The very large part of my objection is the sneering attitude and foundationless elitism this shows toward their ( though I should really say his) paying customers.
    To produce a substandard product through negligance or lack of ability is bad enough, but to deliberately create nonsense content and then add misleading advice on top of this is frankly immature and not what I would expect to have to pay for. Then to subsequently admit to this clever rouse is idiotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    It's not the amount of uselss garbage that matters. It's the amount of uselss stuff in the middle of the barbage wich you can extract by yourself that matters.
    I will assume that you meant useful here
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly View Post
    I am now going to begin blaming everything that goes wrong on Charity. Just for gits and shiggles. And not even just things on the forums. Summer! Charity!

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Banned
     
    Rutee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Huh? It links to Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies for me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...099416-8835107

    He says 'six years of hindsight', so I guess maybe 2006? 3.5 was released in 2003, he already said his piece on that subject... Monte Cook's Review of D20 1.5e

    [Edit]
    Nah, D&DfD was published April 2005, so must have been about then.
    Honestly, the operative thing here was "Years after 3.0". He's just trying to save face.

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutee View Post
    Honestly, the operative thing here was "Years after 3.0". He's just trying to save face.
    As I said above, that is definitely a possibility. However, it doesn't seem any more likely to me, since he doesn't actually say they designed the worst parts of the game that way on purpose (and 2:1 Power Attack, for instance, was a 3.5ism). I don't know if you've read the blog entry, but he says stuff like 'Toughness was a feat intended for Elf Wizards, and primarily for first level tournament scenarios, etc... [i.e. suboptimal choices may be optimal, depending on the circumstances]. Bear in mind, Monte Cook left Wizards well before 3.5 was released (2001, in fact), which is the edition he should be slamming to save face (and, arguably, does elsewhere).

    His discussion of high level magic can also be read on the same website: If I had another shot at it.

    From what I hear of his latest release, he doesn't much care for balance anyway.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2008-05-06 at 02:39 PM.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sholos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Kompera View Post
    I sees a tangent, I runs with it. :)

    I quit playing GW games when I purchased a pile of their miniatures which were being offered for sale at their eponymously named store. Hey, they never had a sale before, I dropped a bundle. I even remarked on the unprecedented sale to the two clerks in the store. "You guys never run sales, what's up?" "Oh, nothing really." I then spent hours painting my new miniatures. And then I showed up to play in one of their evening games hosted in their stores. And was told that they had released a new miniature line and that no one could play with the "old" miniatures in their store. Regardless of the fact that they had been purchased there.

    They got me, but that was the last cent I've ever spent on a GW product and the last time I set foot in one of their stores. I even like their paints but found a different manufacturer to avoid spending another dime on GW products. And I tell this story to all of my gaming friends, to attempt to dissuade them from taking the GW hook.
    You're nice. I would have requested my money back and probably have reported them to BBB. At the very least. You asked them why they had a sale and they didn't tell you that they were releasing a new line that would make the stuff you were buying unusable. That is unacceptable in my eyes. It's almost false advertising (not quite, but close). I don't know if it's technically illegal, but I definitely would have started a campaign in the area to get people to avoid that store. I wouldn't fault GW for the store employees being *******s. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have completely abandoned GW, either. It's the same reason I stopped Magic. It just got annoying to have to keep buying crap.
    Tali avatar by the talented Thormag.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverClawShift View Post
    Am I the only person who thinks this is perfectly acceptable?
    I'd have to say yes.

    I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't be annoyed to find out that the author of their game system deliberately made it stupider.

    "Oh, did you read the words we typed and believe us? Haha sucker! U R NOOB!!#!"


    Can you think of any other product that you would buy and not be outraged to discover the manufacturer deliberately screwed up parts of it?

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    So let me see if I can get this straight: the majority of the players wants a brainless game where a 5 year old who barely knows how to read and is playing for the first time will fare as well as the 20 year university guy who played the game for half his life?

    I surely didn't sign up for this. Actually, one of the things that atracted me at D&D was the complexity.

    If I wanted a simple RPG, there are plenty of simple computer RPG's out there.

    If I wanted to simple hang out with my friends whitout caring about rules at all, then I wouldn't play be playing a game in the first place.
    IS THAT A



    OR A



    ???
    Last edited by Cuddly; 2008-05-06 at 08:05 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #89

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    M'thoughts exactly, my 8 INT, handless friend.

    Incidentally, have a loli or a cookie.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Tengu's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Reason for Imbalance in D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    I want balance similar to what you would see in an RTS. Every side has about the same power, and certain combinations work together well, so an experienced player can succeed, but balance is the default. I don't want weak options thrown in as traps, because that is wasted space. I'm not playing the game to win, I'm playing it to have fun, and me and my friends all contributing equally when we have built to match our concepts with equal optimization should be the basis, not the exception.
    Well said.

    Birdman of the Church of Link's Hat

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •