1. ## Dethy II

Five players, it starts with a cop head start.

Mafia: The mafia wants to equal the number of non mafia. Can kill a player during the night.

Cops: All cops are told they're cops and scry a player each day.
Cop; Gets accurate results.
Insane cop: Get opposite results.
Naive cop: Gets a random innocent result.
Paranoid cop: Gets a mafia result.

2. ## Re: Dethy II

In. These small-sized WW games provide great entertainment.

3. ## Re: Dethy II

Yay, I've already got one person.

4. ## Re: Dethy II

Guess I am in.

5. ## Re: Dethy II

I need three more.

6. ## Re: Dethy II

I'll be joining, but its my first time and while I'm still not going to use protection I'll need some help getting started.

8. ## Re: Dethy II

I'll join then.

9. ## Re: Dethy II

Four of you had a letter sent to you, 10 minutes ago.

"At dawn tommorow you are required to go to the docks. You will then go on the ship. There will be three of your fellow cops and the infiltrated mafia member. Good Luck."

You had an hour before you had to go on the ship.

Insane cop:
Paranoid = Naive
Naive = Paranoid
Cop = Mafia
Mafia = Insane cop.

10. ## Re: Dethy II

Why doesn't everyone scry the same person, then we say the results. We then lynch that person, and see who was right?

I'm thinking of trying Yspoch first.

11. ## Re: Dethy II

That may sound like a good idea, but has a big flaw:

Yes, we know then who is what role, BUT the mafia member knows this also. So, if I turn out to be the insane cop, the mafia member will then kill the real cop and it's pure guesswork and luck on the last day. The same happens if I am the cop (he would then kill the insande cop). Either way the only people left would be paranoid, naive and the mafia.

We should rather scry in a cycle:

Easyname -> Freshmeat_ -> PainintheEar -> Shadowcaller -> Yspoch -> Easyname

Yes I know, somewhere in this line the chain is broken by the mafia, but at least we will definatly gather some information, regardless of who is lynched and killed. And we "decide" what person the mafia member "scries" (and therefore lies about), which should hamper him quite a bit in his flexibility.

What do you think?

12. ## Re: Dethy II

Ok, so who wants to try Yspochs method then?

Easyname -> Yspoch -> PainintheEar -> Shadowcaller -> Freshmeat_ -> Easyname

I already sent my scry, so It'll have to be like this...

13. ## Re: Dethy II

I'm sorry, I've already sent scry results to people. Sorry.

14. ## Re: Dethy II

After your research period you drive up to the ship, wearing your best suit. The old ship captain comes up to you in his white suit. “So you be coming on my ship, well get on the ship then.”

The five of you get on the ship as it leaves the port. The captain leaves you with his final words. “I hope you manage to catch that double agent.”

Day Begins

15. ## Re: Dethy II

One more day to go.

16. ## Re: Dethy II

I scried Yspoch as a maffia how about you guys?

17. ## Re: Dethy II

*pokes people*

Come on, let's share some scry results and try to make sense of this. The private-message strategy doesn't seem to be working as well as I had hoped.

I PM'd Yspoch yesterday and told him I had scried him as the insane cop, and that I thus believed myself to be the naive cop. He responded by telling me that he had scried easyname as mafia.
Of course, the truth is that I actually had scried Yspoch as mafia as well but told him something different at first to hopefully gather more interesting replies. This works often enough.

1. I can be any role but the naive cop (else I would've scried Yspoch as innocent).
2. Yspoch can be any role but the naive cop (else he would've scried easyname as innocent). He also can't be the paranoid cop.
After all, if he was the paranoid cop, then I would be either the insane cop or the normal cop. But if I were insane and he'd be paranoid, I would've scried him as naive. And if I were the normal cop and he were paranoid, I would've scried him as such, and not as mafia.

easyname, earpain and Shadowcaller - who did you scry as what?

Ninja'd
We have the following claims so far:

- Freshmeat: scried Yspoch as Mafia
- Yspoch: scried easyname as Mafia
- Shadowcaller: scried Yspoch as Mafia

18. ## Re: Dethy II

And shame on you for lying to me!

General:
Thesis: Nobody is lying, therefore nobody is the mafia (just for analysis of course!)
Freshmeat, Shadowcaller and Yspoch can't be naive

1.) Freshmeat is the cop => Yspoch is the mafia, Shadowcaller is paranoid
2.) Freshmeat is paranoid => Yspoch is anyone but paranoid
2a) Yspoch is the cop => easyname is Mafia, Shadowcaller is insane
2b) Yspoch is insane => easyname is the cop, Shadowcaller is mafia

3.) If Shadowcaller is the cop, Yspoch is the mafia, Freshmeat is paranoid
4.) If Shadowcaller is paranoid, Yspoch is anyone but paranoid
4a) Yspoch is the cop => easyname is Mafia, Freshmeat is insane
4b) Yspoch is insane => easyname is the cop, Freshmeat is mafia

5.) Freshmeat is insane => Yspoch is the cop => easyname is mafia, Shadowcaller is paranoid (same as 4a)
6.) Shadowcaller is insane => Yspoch is the cop => easyname is mafia, Freshmeat is paranoid (same as 2a)

Correct?

We need more scry results!

Yspoch

19. ## Re: Dethy II

I scried Yspoch as the insane cop.

20. ## Re: Dethy II

We've only got limited time left, so it might be best to start pointing already. Easyname and Earpain might not reply in time, so we probably won't be able to take a fully informed decision here.

Lynching someone at this point is always a good thing. Whether we lynch someone today or not won't make a difference for the mafia, since he still wins after surviving for two days. So we might just as well kill someone and try to gather some more information.

Theory:
I (paranoid) scried Yspoch (insane) as mafia.
Yspoch (insane) scried easyname (cop) as mafia.
easyname (cop) scried Yspoch as insane.
Shadowcaller scries Yspoch as insane? That doesn't make sense. Where does he fit in?

Possibilities:
Shadowcaller is naive: impossible after his claim
Shadowcaller is insane: Yspoch is the cop, easyname is mafia
Shadowcaller is the cop: Yspoch is mafia
Shadowcaller is paranoid: far more interesting. This requires a bit more typing up. Due to time constraints it might be a good idea to vote already.

21. ## Re: Dethy II

Well I can say I am not maffia but if lynching me proves something then I am all in for that idea. Just be veary if Freshmeat should turn out to be the maffia there is somthing funny with is logic.

22. ## Re: Dethy II

(corollary to the following question: "What if Shadowcaller were paranoid?")

Roles:
SC: paranoid
Ear: insane/normal/naive*
Yspoch: insane/normal/mafia
easyname: insane/normal/mafia/naive
Freshmeat: insane/normal/mafia

*: Earpain is innocent. Him being mafia doesn't seem to make sense. Then Yspoch would either be normal or insane. If he were normal, then easyname would already be mafia, so that doesn't work. If Yspoch were insane, then easyname would be the cop. But then either I or Shadowcaller would need to be naive, and we both got a mafia result. So Earpain is innocent no matter what.

Also: either easyname or Earpain is naive.
1. Let's see what happens if SC is paranoid and Ear is naive:

The mafia, insane cop and normal cop role would have to be distributed among myself, Yspoch and easyname.

Possibilities:
• Yspoch is mafia, easyname is insane and I'm normal: impossible because easyname wouldn't have scried Yspoch as insane
• Yspoch is mafia, easyname is normal and I'm insane: impossible because I wouldn't have scried Yspoch as mafia
• easyname is mafia, Yspoch is insane and I'm normal: impossible because I wouldn't have scried Yspoch as mafia
• I'm mafia, Yspoch is normal and easyname is insane: impossible because easyname wouldn't have scried Yspoch as insane nor would Yspoch have scried easyname as mafia
• I'm mafia, Yspoch is insane and easyname is normal: possibility 1
• easyname is mafia, Yspoch is normal and I'm insane: possibility 2

2. And if SC is paranoid and easyname is naive:

The mafia, insane cop and normal cop role would have to be distributed among myself, Yspoch and Ear:

• I'm insane, Yspoch is mafia and Ear is normal: impossible because I wouldn't have scried Yspoch as mafia
• I'm insane, Yspoch is normal and Ear is mafia: impossible because Yspoch wouldn't have scried easyname as mafia then
• Yspoch is insane, I'm mafia and Ear is normal: impossible because Yspoch wouldn't have scried easyname as mafia
• Yspoch is insane, Ear is mafia and I'm normal: impossible because Yspoch wouldn't have scried easyname as mafia
• Ear is insane, I'm mafia and Yspoch is normal: impossible because Yspoch wouldn't have scried easyname as mafia
• Ear is insane, Yspoch is mafia and I'm normal: possibility 3

***

Therefore:
If SC is paranoid:

- Ear is naive, I'm mafia, Yspoch is insane and easyname is normal: possibility 1
- Ear is naive, easyname is mafia, Yspoch is normal and I'm insane: possibility 2
- Easy is naive, Yspoch is mafia, Ear is insane, and I'm normal: possibility 3

So:
I suggest we all scry painintheear tonight.

• If Yspoch gets killed as insane: easyname will be the cop and will be able to tell us the role of Ear. We then have two confirmed good guys and win.
• If Yspoch gets killed as normal: easyname is mafia and we win.
• If easyname gets killed as normal: Yspoch is mafia and we win.
• If easyname gets killed as naive: Yspoch is mafia and we win (only the insane cop, the normal cop and mafia remain -- and neither of the two cops could get a 'mafia' result when scrying the naive easyname).
• If I get killed as insane: Yspoch is the cop, easyname is mafia and we win.
• If I get killed as normal: Yspoch is mafia and we win.
• If Ear gets killed as normal: Yspoch is mafia and we win (easyname would be the naive cop and the insane cop wouldn't have scried the naive cop as mafia).
• If Ear gets killed as insane: Yspoch is mafia and we win (easyname would be the naive cop and the insane cop wouldn't have scried the naive cop as mafia).
• If Ear gets killed as naive: Because we'd all have scried him, we'd know who we are and could then easily determine who's who.

Possible role distributions in this eventuality (striked-through = impossible):

• Yspoch is mafia, I'm normal and easyname is insane
• I'm mafia, Yspoch is insane and easyname is normal.
• easyname is mafia, Yspoch is normal and I'm insane
• Yspoch is mafia, I'm insane and easyname is normal
• easyname is mafia, Yspoch is insane and I'm normal
• I'm mafia, Yspoch is normal and easyname is insane

In these eventualities, Yspoch can't be mafia. If I were insane, then easyname would be normal. But I wouldn't have scried Yspoch as mafia then. The same holds true for easyname if he were insane.

At this point, we only need to look at what result each of us got after scrying Ear and we'll find out the truth in no time.

Any one of you see a flaw in this plan?

23. ## Re: Dethy II

Since it would be worse if no-one get lynched today I will hereby vote for myself, Shadowcaller.

24. ## Re: Dethy II

Shadowcaller came running to the deck away from everyone else, "Everyone's after me, everyone, even myself, even I'm after me."
Suddenly his voice changed. "You Shadowcaller, will die everyone wants you to die, you've probably locked loads of innocent people up because you're evil."

"I knew I was out to get me, but you won't take me alive." Said Shadowcaller as he jumped off the deck.

Shadowcaller the paranoid cop was killed.

25. ## Re: Dethy II

I scried painintheear as naive, so I'm the normal cop and Yspoch is mafia.
Your scry results will confirm to you that you are respectively naive (painintheear) and insane (easyname).
That is all.

26. ## Re: Dethy II

Oh, I didn't send in my scry >_<.

Were we meant to do it then?

27. ## Re: Dethy II

You still can send it in.
We (apparently) get the results right away.

28. ## Re: Dethy II

That's odd... I didn't know we were allowed to scry in the night. Shouldn't someone have been killed?

So, is there some special knowledge that you have, that you just go on to day 2?

I'll tell you a secret Freshmeat: I lied too you.

You sent me (and maybe everyone else?) a PM, claiming
b) that we should not post openly.

It wasn't the most trustbuilding pm I ever received to be honest.

Yes, I scried Shadowcaller, but I did not get "mafia" back. I got back "insane cop".

All of your very suspicious behaviour leads me to believe that indeed you are the mafia member in this game.

29. ## Re: Dethy II

Originally Posted by Yspoch
All of your very suspicious behaviour leads me to believe that indeed you are the mafia member in this game.
From my perspective, it's really easy:
• I know I'm not the mafia
• I can't be naive
• I can't be paranoid
• If I were insane, then my scry of painintheear being naive would mean that he was paranoid (which is impossible). Besides, if I were insane, and if you and easyname supposedly both scry eachother as insane, then one of you would already have to be insane, since one of you would have to be the cop. So I can't be insane either.
• As a result of the above, I know I am the normal cop.

If I were mafia, why detail an entire plan that would win us the game? Why go to such lengths to lynch someone if it'd only be to my disadvantage? I think my case is a lot stronger than yours here.

I fail to see where your claim at my alleged 'suspicious behaviour' is coming from. It's quite interesting actually, because I recall you being online earlier today, yet not voting to lynch SC...
Had SC not died, where would we be now? Nowhere. We'd have learned absolutely nothing. If I could easily fake being offline until Demonking would update the day actions, why get involved and shoot myself in the foot? It wouldn't make any sense at all.

Originally Posted by Yspoch
That's odd... I didn't know we were allowed to scry in the night. Shouldn't someone have been killed?

So, is there some special knowledge that you have, that you just go on to day 2?
You played in Dethy I. You know cops can scry at night.
Also, I now have worked out the only eventuality I was still worried about: why did easyname (insane) scry you (mafia) as insane, rather than as a cop?
The answer can be found in the Dethy I thread as well.
The insane cop scries mafia as insane.

This confirms that I am the cop, painintheear is naive, easyname is insane and you are mafia.

So:
If easyname scries me tonight, he'll get the mafia result (this is the most reliable course of action at this point, since neither of us are questioning easyname being the insane cop, now are we?)
If easyname scries painintheear tonight, he'll get the paranoid cop result.
Both are facts.

If painintheear scries anyone, he'll get an innocent result.
That's also a fact.

Originally Posted by Yspoch
You sent me (and maybe everyone else?) a PM, claiming
b) that we should not post openly.

It wasn't the most trustbuilding pm I ever received to be honest.
It wasn't meant to be trustbuilding. That's a fool's game.

I only needed you to make a mistake, and you did.
This game is over the moment easyname sees this thread and scries me.

Originally Posted by Yspoch
I'll tell you a secret Freshmeat: I lied too you.
Yes, I scried Shadowcaller, but I did not get "mafia" back. I got back "insane cop".
How awfully convenient.
Let's see... if you supposedly knew this information all along, how come you didn't kill easyname right away after he claimed to have scried you as the insane cop? Simple. You didn't scry anyone at all.

The truth is, Yspoch, it doesn't matter.
At this point, if the mafia kills anyone, everything will fall into place and we'll see who's telling the truth and who isn't.

And if the mafia doesn't kill anyone, we simply don't lynch anyone either and just scry people until everyone is convinced of his own and eachother's roles.

30. ## Re: Dethy II

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
From my perspective, it's really easy:
• I know I'm not the mafia
• I can't be naive
• I can't be paranoid
• If I were insane, then my scry of painintheear being naive would mean that he was paranoid (which is impossible). Besides, if I were insane, and if you and easyname supposedly both scry eachother as insane, then one of you would already have to be insane, since one of you would have to be the cop. So I can't be insane either.
• As a result of the above, I know I am the normal cop.

If I were mafia, why detail an entire plan that would win us the game? Why go to such lengths to lynch someone if it'd only be to my disadvantage? I think my case is a lot stronger than yours here.
Yes, why indeed? Perhaps because it does not win "us" the game, but you? Everybody knows that you're one of the smartest players around here and that such a small game like this can't be won by inactivity and sitting it out. So you decided perhaps to go into full-mode-attack and control the game directly from the start.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
I fail to see where your claim at my alleged 'suspicious behaviour' is coming from. It's quite interesting actually, because I recall you being online earlier today, yet not voting to lynch SC...
Had SC not died, where would we be now? Nowhere. We'd have learned absolutely nothing. If I could easily fake being offline until Demonking would update the day actions, why get involved and shoot myself in the foot? It wouldn't make any sense at all.
Again, you like being active and not reactive. As far as i know a single vote would have sufficed to lynch someone. So you went ahead and lynched someone who would fit your plan. If I really would be the mafia don't you think I would have grabbed the opportunity to point at someone and try to look innocent?

Besides, I'm often online and reading new posts, but I sometimes can't just write an answer right away. If I would try to be sneaky I'd just hide my on/offline status.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
You played in Dethy I. You know cops can scry at night.
Also, I now have worked out the only eventuality I was still worried about: why did easyname (insane) scry you (mafia) as insane, rather than as a cop?
The answer can be found in the Dethy I thread as well.
The insane cop scries mafia as insane.
What!? I know no such thing! Why should cops allowed to scry at night? What sense would that make?
I think you just made one of your (admittedly seldom) errors by just going on with the next day without waiting for Emperor Demonkings "End-of-night"-Post.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
This confirms that I am the cop, painintheear is naive, easyname is insane and you are mafia.
Trying to sound matter-of-factly (is that a word? ) will not make me to trust your every word. And I sure hope that's true for easyname and painintheear too.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
So:
If easyname scries me tonight, he'll get the mafia result (this is the most reliable course of action at this point, since neither of us are questioning easyname being the insane cop, now are we?)
If easyname scries painintheear tonight, he'll get the paranoid cop result.
Both are facts.

If painintheear scries anyone, he'll get an innocent result.
That's also a fact.
No, it's not a fact. You would like it to be a fact.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
It wasn't meant to be trustbuilding. That's a fool's game.

I only needed you to make a mistake, and you did.
This game is over the moment easyname sees this thread and scries me.
What, I made a mistake by lying to the mafia member?

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
How awfully convenient.
Let's see... if you supposedly knew this information all along, how come you didn't kill easyname right away after he claimed to have scried you as the insane cop? Simple. You didn't scry anyone at all.
Why should I? That's even more crazy talk from you. I scried Shadowcaller as insane and easyname scried me as insane.

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
The truth is, Yspoch, it doesn't matter.
At this point, if the mafia kills anyone, everything will fall into place and we'll see who's telling the truth and who isn't.

And if the mafia doesn't kill anyone, we simply don't lynch anyone either and just scry people until everyone is convinced of his own and eachother's roles.
Where the second option would suit you best, wouldn't it? Allow me to quote:

Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
Whether we lynch someone today or not won't make a difference for the mafia, since he still wins after surviving for two days.
Easyname and Painintheear, I'm sure you see what Freshmeat is trying to pull of here. We made it a bit to easy for him with nobody scrying him and all.

But we can still win!

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