Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks

[Reinboom]

Hmm let me see. In the above situation, the monk half-orc would be behind by 2 BAB, and ahead by 1 STR, also winning ties due to higher STR

No. whitespace

In case of a tie, the combatant with the higher grapple check modifier wins. If this is a tie, roll again to break the tie.

[Scintillatus]

Giacomo, how do you feel about Monks in the Fourth Edition? Are you aiming towards Defender or Striker, or even Controller?

[Freelance Henchman]

I don't think you fully understand the concept of divine magic in D&D.

It's not about following a god. It's about believing in something. 99% of the clerics out there don't actually follow a god, but rather an ideal, aka they cherry pick their two favorite domains.

So, anyone can indeed use a wand of divine power, and that power will be granted by what they belive in, be it a god, justice, power or friendship if you plan to play a magical girl.

Hah, interesting. But what about playing in Faerun, where there's no "ideals" allowed to follow for clerics? Presumably the wands would need to call upon a specific god then?

[Solo]

Hmm let me see. In the above situation, the monk half-orc would be behind by 2 BAB, and ahead by 1 STR, also winning ties due to higher STR

No.

In case of a tie, the combatant with the higher grapple check modifier wins. If this is a tie, roll again to break the tie.

Someone who at that stage maintained an attack to establish a grapple is not a touch attack, but a normal attack, does not come across as really very advanced about monk optimisation.

____________

[Oslecamo]

Hah, interesting. But what about playing in Faerun, where there's no "ideals" allowed to follow for clerics? Presumably the wands would need to call upon a specific god then?

Well, I really don't know Faerun very well, but in that case I would say this is what happens:

1-UMD is all about "fooling" the magic item.
2-When the cleric crafts the wand, he puts his/her god's divine power inside of it, so it may be called when he needs it. The wand will only answer someone who shows the signs of worshiping the god who powered it.
3-The monk somehow grabs the wand, and then uses UMD to fool the wand, and make it think he's indeed a follower of that specific god. The divine power flows into the monk's body, and he's ready to kick ass, despite not having any specific connection to the god.

[Freelance Henchman]

Well, I really don't know Faerun very well, but in that case I would say this is what happens:

1-UMD is all about "fooling" the magic item.
2-When the cleric crafts the wand, he puts his/her god's divine power inside of it, so it may be called when he needs it. The wand will only answer someone who shows the signs of worshiping the god who powered it.
3-The monk somehow grabs the wand, and then uses UMD to fool the wand, and make it think he's indeed a follower of that specific god. The divine power flows into the monk's body, and he's ready to kick ass, despite not having any specific connection to the god.

This isn't Monk-specific though, wouldn't a cleric of e.g. an opposed god not even need a UMD check for the wand? So now a cleric of Bane is using a wand to get Divine Power from Lathander. There's no fooling going on here at all, so why would this work?

[Oslecamo]

This isn't Monk-specific though, wouldn't a cleric of e.g. an opposed god not even need a UMD check for the wand? So now a cleric of Bane is using a wand to get Divine Power from Lathander. There's no fooling going on here at all, so why would this work?

I would say it works because the cleric of Bane "corrupts" the magic energy inside the wand of Lathander and turns Latander's power in Bane's power. Hey, he's a cleric. He can bring the livings from back from the dead and call holy fire from the heavens. Corrupting a wand of another god shouldn't be that hard.

[Freelance Henchman]

I would say it works because the cleric of Bane "corrupts" the magic energy inside the wand of Lathander and turns Latander's power in Bane's power. Hey, he's a cleric. He can bring the livings from back from the dead and call holy fire from the heavens. Corrupting a wand of another god shouldn't be that hard.

Alright, so "A wizard did it". Or in this case, "A cleric did it."

[Oslecamo]

Alright, so "A wizard did it". Or in this case, "A cleric did it."

Exactly. It's magic, after all

[Worira]

Let us see. In our direct comparison, of course, the two half-orc's STR will be the same. Note, though, that your fighter has to have DEX 15 (or lose his improved grapple feat when enlarged), so this boils down to him having to spend 4 meagre points on the rest of his four stats in 28-point buy. The monk can afford to distribute his points more evenly (AND will have higher skill points). But I digress.

One problem there. If you take 18 str and want 3 skill points, that's 18 points right there. If you also want a constitution of twelve, you have enough points left for 12 in either wisdom or dexterity, giving you an AC of 11. Enlarged, that drops to 9, which also happens to be your HP total at first level. The fighter's not going to waste time grappling you when he can hit you with a spiked chain for an average of 12 damage.

[SamTheCleric]

One problem there. If you take 18 str and want 3 skill points, that's 18 points right there. If you also want a constitution of twelve, you have enough points left for 12 in either wisdom or dexterity, giving you an AC of 11. Enlarged, that drops to 9, which also happens to be your HP total at first level. The fighter's not going to waste time grappling you when he can hit you with a spiked chain for an average of 12 damage.

Off topic Rant:

I just realized... All this talk of grappling can be solved with Close Quarters Combat. I mean... you get an AOO even if they have Improved Grapple. You can further complicated it by having Evasive Reflexes (or whatever the name of the feat is) that lets you take a 5 foot step instead of an AOO

Every time someone tries to grapple you, you just 5' away. Wow, that's amusing.

[cenghiz]

About the scenario... As I mentioned before, I haven't DMed D&D for three years and I don't think I even remember some of the rules at all but... let me say what I think... Forgive me in advance about all the mistakes about numbers. I don't care about them. I care about the roles.

Surprise round:
Now, provided the evoker does not already have it, the monk will hand him the wand of enlarge (he at this point has two fully charged ones, plus a wand of obscuring mist; even with the ruling that pcs can only buy fully charged wands). The evoker (likey not yet seeing any enemy, and thus unable to target) will be quite low on spells (it is the evening). And thus be happy to do something useful. He waits for the first round to unfold

Nope. It is their first and last encounter during their whole session. The evoker is full with arcane might and itching to rain it down on something... anything.. I believe I had made it clear. It was a session of introduction. It was a boring, 'H&S'less session so the wolves were just a random encounter before the session ends so the players could drool on their new characters' new shiny ways of cutting/burning/cuddling enemies. All DMs do that. "When players get bored, make them destruct something." - DM's Handbook - Page 86 :) But yes.. He would of course be willing to beef up the monk.

The rogue hides.
Both rogue and monk whisper warnings to their comrades.
1st round.
The dire wolves cannot charge through that terrain from 100ft away, so they are cunning enough to move half their speed and be stealthy about it (they fail vs the higher spot/listen scores of monk, rogue, druid).

WOLVES! Canines! They have NO hide skills. Canines don't hide when they hunt. They move in pack, pursue and scatter the hunted pack, pull down a weak creature, bite it to death and eat it. Wolves possibly didn't hide at all. So yes, anyone who could see far enough could see them.

Rogue and monk have higher initiative (dire wolves have only +2 mod). Probably the evoker too (wizards should be fast to get their spells off before they are hit).
Monk positions himself to hide in a way that the dire wolves cannot see him, but that the wizard will still (hide check +10 vs dire wolves' spot of +7 minus 5 penalty for distance). He uses his remaining standard action to cast bless on the party from his prayer bead. The wizard casts spider climb and climbs to safety on a tree.
The barbarian readies his TH weapon. The druid casts protective buffs on himself and the animal compainon (say, barkskin).

Pretty good. Really. Except, if I were _any_ skillmonkey rogue, I would climb onto a tree. A shortsword and a light crossbow (if I remember right, I have no time to check) have same damage dice, you don't have noticeable strength bonus, you can still sneak attack at point blank range with a crossbow and guess what? Canines can't climb. Easy damage without risking your squishy d6 hit die and forcing your companions to save your a** in the heat of the battle. You're the rogue, leave the direct confrontation to barbarians and fighters and.. err.. giamonks.

2nd round
The dire wolves smash into the party camp - but rogue and monk go first! Rogue emerges, sneaks Dire Wolf 1, likely doing around 2d6 (sneak) plus 1d6 (shortsword) damage.

No no no no NO! The rouge did just shoot a crossbow bolt. Same damage, much less risk. Possibly, most possibly the rogue has the feat 'point blank shot' (it's transferred from 3.0 to 3.5?) so it's even more feasible. The rogue's base attack bonus doesn't let him do more than one swing, so why not fire a light crossbow and reload it instead?

The wizard casts enlarge on the monk,...

Change here a lot. The wizard must have cast enlarge on you before. I DON'T believe another player itching on scorching some wolves with fireballs will waste his actions on you at all after the real action starts. He's a PC wizard, not your cohort. Let's assume he did use your wand before. Then you'll say "But but but... I'll have a negative to my hide modifier and wolves will see me...", let the wolves see you. Doesn't matter a lot. This is a role-playing game. The wolves will not jump onto you when you're backed up by a a druid, his compaion and a barbarian because they're canines. They wait till you scatter the pack and attack the lonely one. If you still don't like it, let me change this a bit. The druid's player says, OOC: "Need time? All right.. I cast 'Flare' at the first charging wolf.".. The flare is a flash of light, that's all. But it scared the wolves (DM Fiat) and it gave you and the wizard the necassary one turn for your buffing.

Then.. As soon as the wolves charged at the small grouping consisting of you, the druid, druid's companion and the barbarian, the wizard's prepared action, fireball exploded. Barbarian charged. Druid charged. You charged. No need for grapples, because wizard and rogue is really softening the targets from atop the trees. (Rogue is having his sneak attacks for point blank range even with the crossbow and wizard's evoking is... evoking.).

You are enlarged, you are giving the hurt along with your companions and the wolves are quickly distroyed. Barbarian quickly grasps a skinning knive from his satchel and skins the wolf carcasses. With his 'Profession: Tanner' he hopes he can make these into valuable stuff for the next town during his watch. You may be a bit exhausted with the thrill of adrenaline but... Not even a scratch.. You high-five OOC.

Do the number-crunching yourself. I just decided in scenario 1, Giamonk may buff and be useful without risking the party. Numbers are not important because I know they'll turn around my way. But I have a few more words...

1. You consciously or subconsciously try to make other classes look weaker. Why? As you can see in my example, D&D is a role-playing and a group game. Especially, why did you make the rogue make the worst decisions he would ever make? I'm heart-broken. Rogues, especially chaotic-neutral skillmonkey crossbow-wielding human rogues are my favourites whenever I play D&D.

2. "In DMG, in Page xxx, there's a sentence that says 'yyy' so I can write 'Masterwork Tool' in my character sheet near _any_ skill and a real, flesh-and-bone DM won't laugh at my face." Do you really believe in this? Guides are guides because they help people make characters. Most of the DMs in the whole world will not let you use masterwork UMD tools and partially charged wands. Period. So letting them in your build does not help people using your guide. And using economy to excuse partially-charged wands is... fun... OK folks gather around.. It's story-time...

Solo the mystic theurge was the mightiest adventurer of the Brass City. Being the avatar of both his God and the arcane powers, he went on adventures all by himself, feeling no need for a party slowing him down.

In one of his adventures, after killing the pesky werewolf and saving the king's daughter -damn, for the sixth time he saved her. This time he's going to advise the king a ball and chain- he salvaged four wands from the scattering ashes of the werewolf. A wand of divine power with 6 charges, three wands of enlarge, two with 6 charges and one with only three charges. Also... a wand of temporary sterility... With 12 charges. "The party the King sent before me..." he thought. The wands were still worth a few coins, so he stuck them into his handy hoversack.

Psst! We're lucky. Brass City is Giamonk's city and he just leveled up. He was going to buy partially charged wands in a week! Coincidence?

After selling the leftovers from the adventures in the city, Solo made his way to the maiden in the Ebon Tower to the south. He.. err.. heard that the woman knew a lot about.. err.. 'animate rope'?

.....

Of course Brass City is a large city and there's another adventuring group who just came back from adventuring. In the leadership of Holic the Cleric of Kord, they retrieved the cursed azure sword. They will be taking it to the great temple of Kord to the Northwest but they are now shopping for provisions. Malic the Rogue, pouch jingling with a lot of silver and gold, is happy. He walks into Elaric's Wands and Potions..

- I'll buy a wand of cure li.. Hey, burnt wands?
The shopkeeper grins.
- Another adventurer sold them to me. They're just a bit charred. They're fully functional, but they're nearly out of charges. A wand of heroism, six charges, two wands of enlarge, six charges, one with only three and... One wand of sterility with twelve charges... He said he burnt the creature possessing them. After I polish them, they'll look just like a normal wand.
Malic would love to have these. His party monk would delight being enlarged before fights in the end. But paying for 'partially-charged' wands? He had a better idea.
He took out 'the coin of near-truth' from his pouch. This coin was a joke from a near epic diviner he met in one of his adventures. This gold coin was granted an incredible divination power and was capable of giving the right answer to any of your 'yes/no' question. It was also capable of breaching any kind of defense against divination, even mind blank and divine intervention. But.... The coin would lie to you 50% of all times. So it was no different from flipping a coin and guessing the answer. But because of its magical nature the coin radiated very very strong divination and it was usable for this task.
He flipped the coin and let it fall to the ground. Then nodded to himself with a satisfied grin. "No strong curses around.. good." (The player rolls.. Good bluff roll).
The shopkeeper looks curious. "What's that, sire?"
- This coin? This is a coin of curse divination. A very strong item, it is. Sad that I'll have to part with it soon or it'll crack. My next mission forces me escorting an item with a very strong curse and keeping the coin nearby such a strong curse will indeed break it. (Another bluff roll, good roll)
- So how does it work?
- Easy. It's a simple coin. You flip it. If it acts like a coin, everything's all right. But if it lands on neither side, but it's edge instead and starts trembling and humming, it means there's a cursed item nearby. The stronger the humming and trembling, the stronger the curse is. A very great curse shatters the coin. (Another bluff roll with a positive modifier, success)
- So you'll part with it. Maybe, sell it to me?
- You? Wands and potions are rarely cursed. Yes, indeed when they're cursed, they _are_ cursed and you're in trouble that's right. But remember it doesn't work on poisoned potions and such. Just cursed wands, in your case.
- Still a good one. What would you like for it?
- You trust someone before checking the nature of my trinket? Gah.. At least check if it's magic or not before we talk about its price. I'll do the same about your goods. (Diplomacy check, success, shopkeeper's attitude is shifted towards friendly, his suspicions are erased, he will still attempt a 'detect magic' from a wand he spares for such situations but he's willing to believe now.)
The shopkeeper activates a 'detect magic' wand. The coin radiates a VERY strong divination aura and this is enough to make the shopkeeper believe. At last they agree upon a price of 'one fully charged wand of cure critical wounds, three potions of heroism, those partially charged wands except the one that causes sterility also a masterwork alchemy set that does no good for the shopkeeper but would do wonders for the party wizard".

Sad.. Giamonk is late. Maybe next time?

......

So what do we learn from this story? We learn that even though it's right that adventurers will sell partially-charged wands that are of no use to them. But if those partially-charged wands are of any use, there will be buyers willing to buy those partially-charged wands other than your PCs. If there were no demand, no shopkeeper would be willing to take those partially-charged wands off your hands. If there's demand, noone can guarantee the wands you wand will be available at any shop anywhere in the world, because there are other parties that require heroism, divine power, enlarge and similar buffs as much as giamonks.

(I know the story was not necessary at all, I just felt like writing. I hope I didn't bore you out of your minds.)

[Solo]

Solo the mystic theurge was the mightiest adventurer of the Brass City.

WHAT!?!?!?

He had better have levels of Ur-priest at the least.

Being the avatar of both his God and the arcane powers, he went on adventures all by himself, feeling no need for a party slowing him down.

Avatar of himself, you mean.

In one of his adventures, after killing the pesky werewolf and saving the king's daughter -damn, for the sixth time he saved her. This time he's going to advise the king a ball and chain

I object! This is clearly bollocks!

Solo would have taken matters into his own hands and chained the princess up in his entirely secure, soundproof private chambers.

For her own good and safety, of course.

[Rutee]

Of course, because it's physically impossible to disagree with you, so ignorance is the only possible reason for someone to express an opinion you don't like.

Not really. This claim, however, /does/ have to stem from ignorance, because it's /wrong/.

On Topic: Guys, if Giacomo refuses to submit his build to playtesting, can we finally, as a forum, agree to just ignore him? Please? It'll hopefully mean fewer fights, or at least, less lengthy ones.

[Solo]

Not really. This claim, however, /does/ have to stem from ignorance, because it's /wrong/.

On Topic: Guys, if Giacomo refuses to submit his build to playtesting, can we finally, as a forum, agree to just ignore him? Please? It'll hopefully mean fewer fights, or at least, less lengthy ones.

Well, follow the Sinister Spire link in my sig to see the playtest.

[Nebo_]

On Topic: Guys, if Giacomo refuses to submit his build to playtesting, can we finally, as a forum, agree to just ignore him? Please? It'll hopefully mean fewer fights, or at least, less lengthy ones.

Oh my, yes. That sounds like an excellent idea. This has gone beyond a discussion and has turned into trolling from Giacomo.

[Rutee]

Oh, he's only a day behind. You made it sound like he hadn't been posting at all.. Totally different then.

@^: Well, he's only behind, not not-submitting. So my bad.

[Behold_the_Void]

Behold_the_Void provided me with a good point to start.

You realise that power attack cannot be used in a grapple?

Consequently, if I were going spiked-chain tripper your Monk would never get close enough to grapple, so your monk's grapple strategy would still never work.

Er...tumble? (the skill your fighter does not have, and likely cannot even raise cross-class since you dump INT).

Thus, I could easily go Half-Orc too, but I would also point out that you suggest half-orc which has a Charisma penalty and yet you rely on UMD. I don't quite think this argument his holding weight.

The joker monk does. The lord_khaine-focused monk on grappling does not. If we want to compare your grapple specialised fighter build, it needs to be done with a grapple specialised monk build.
Note also that without UMD, both fighter and monk will be dependent on either rather expensive enlarge potions or outside buffs. But let's assume for both they have access to it.

Spiked Gauntlet plus Armor Spikes do 1d4+1d6+strength (which is higher than yours)+enhancement, a +1 enhancement to each of them is a mere 4,000 gold and is giving me an average of 11 damage fairly early on, even before his strength starts climbing. You're not really outdamaging him all that much.

Let us see. In our direct comparison, of course, the two half-orc's STR will be the same. Note, though, that your fighter has to have DEX 15 (or lose his improved grapple feat when enlarged), so this boils down to him having to spend 4 meagre points on the rest of his four stats in 28-point buy. The monk can afford to distribute his points more evenly (AND will have higher skill points). But I digress.
By level 6, the grapple monk does the following kind of damage enlarged (thanks to his improved natural attack feat; for the around 5,000 you spend on armour, +1 spike and +1 spiked gauntlet, the monk can get a 4,000 gauntlet of ogre power = STR 24 vs your fighter's STR 22; or at that level considering 25% max for a single item, maybe 4 pearls of power to receive enlarge from the party caster 4 times per day. Or get enlarge permancie'd)
3d6+7= 18 on avg.
Now, this compares to your fighter's (enlarged)
1d4 (enlarged from your normal unarmed damage- the spiked gauntlet counts as a light weapon and does not cause unarmed damage), +6 = 9 damage on avg. Note also that your armour spike will do extra damage (of enlarged 1d8 +1+7 ONLY on the first grapple attack, not on subsequent grapple checks.
So, we see, the fighter specialised in grappling is seriously outdamaged by the monk (stacking base damage dice, guys! STACKING!). And gap widens, the higher the level, and in particular when the monk's belt is available.

Now what the fighter COULD do is get metal gauntlets instead of the spiked kind. It APPEARS as if the grapple rules would allow damage from the gauntlets instead. But then you'll have exactly the same kind of damage coming from the monk, who would also have gauntlets than can be enchanted.

Also, your monk's grapple damage is a bit irrelevant since he's not winning the grapple due to his low grapple check.

Hmm let me see. In the above situation, the monk half-orc would be behind by 2 BAB, and ahead by 1 STR, also winning ties due to higher STR (not counting the problem of your fighter who vastly lacks in defenses vs magical attacks, so normally he'll have not put so many point buy into STR - which the monk can afford due to his class abilities).
When flurrying, he greatly increases in chance to win vs the fighter, even if he were behind by 3 (!) in grapple check ability.

This build can be a perfectly serviceable fighter build and still grapple better and with roughly equitable damage than you through the expenditure of a small amount of resources.

As has been proven once again, this is not the case. The specialised grapple build does not have UMD- although he COULD have it, since the halforc fighter with INT 6 only has 1 skill point/level (that will be needed for your riding skill since you want to also take mounted combat feats), whereas his monk brother has around 3 skill points/level left. Enough for tumble, UMD and may spot so he sees the fighter way before the other way round.
A "perfectly serviceeable" fighter build does one or more of the following:
- make the most of martial or exotic weapons (power attack anyone?)
- try to control melee areas with INT-based feats (trip etc.- not good for the half-orc fighter, whereas the half-orc monk could even get improved trip without INT requirement AND be great at grappling)
- rule at ranged attacks (archery)
He COULD throw in two feats for ius and impr. grapple, but that really should not be the basis for full-blown tactics imo. (only as backup vs grappling monsters if you have the feats to spare).

And as far as the Monk's Belt is concerned, why would I want one? I could get a Belt of Giant's strength, which is generally better for my damage in the long run anyway.

Yes, intuitively you are right. The monk belt does not benefit the (half-orc or otherwise) fighter as much. The monk gains most of it. The moment he receives it, he gets +1d8 damage, +1 stun and +1 AC. That's quite good for a 13,000 gp item.

Ah, I need to rush off. I'll respond to Solo later tonight (disproving his notions of weak monk damage, if what I've written is not yet enough to prove it). Plus, of course, Cenghiz' question on the level 10 fight vs the 7 hieracosphinxes.

- Giacomo

That power attack cannot be used in grapple is irrelevant, it's simply how the build is laid out and the assumption of spiked chain tripper in a build that is focused on overpowering isn't appropriate. Power attack is for when he isn't engaging in grapple, the grapple feats are there to give him some extra options because it's Core-Only and he has more feats than he knows what to do with.

And even still, I would refute your point anyway.

Attack Your Opponent

You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

That says to me that Power Attack is QUITE viable. Which means hey, I out-damage you with my spiked gauntlets, considering how pitiful your AC is going to be what with your WBL constantly being dumped into wands.

Hey, 4 points means I can get my Int up to 10, enough for UMD and Ride! Rock!

This is CORE. Fighters have the feats. In fact, in Core Only the Fighter actually has the ability to diversify. Also, you are mistaken. A good Fighter (which is, I might add, one of the weakest classes in the game) will generally do one of those things, and is using a lot of non-core feats to be even remotely viable in combat. Even still, a Fighter will generally be doing two of these things core-only. In this case, my Fighter is likely riding a horse (or a griffin when first able) and is flyby attacking your monk and puting 757-sized holes in him up until the monk decides to attempt to grapple, at which point he beats the monk in the grapple and proceeds to squeeze the remaining hit-points out of him.

And your Monk won't have a higher grapple bonus than my fighter. Period. Strength is easier for my fighter to get, BAB comes faster. There is no advantage your monk has that mine does not. If YOU were to go Half-Orc and I was not, we would be tied in strength and I would STILL have an advantage.

[Solo]

Oh, he's only a day behind. You made it sound like he hadn't been posting at all.. Totally different then.

My apologies.

[SamTheCleric]

Not to be a fuddy-duddy (who says that anymore!?)

But Giacamo is (sort of) right about power attack in a grapple.

You can't use power attack with light weapons. Spiked Chain is only considered a light weapon for the purposes of the Weapon Finesse feat.

You CAN power attack with a natural attack or unarmed strike.

[Solo]

Isn't an unarmed attack a light weapon?

[SamTheCleric]

Isn't an unarmed attack a light weapon?

Good point. And a monk only treats an unarmed attack as a natural weapon when it comes to spells or abilites that enhance it.

Unarmed Strike
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

So no power attack for monks either!

[marjan]

Isn't an unarmed attack a light weapon?

They are indeed.

Unarmed Strike
...
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.

[Duke of URL]

Good point. And a monk only treats an unarmed attack as a natural weapon when it comes to spells or abilites that enhance it.





So no power attack for monks either!

Yes, they can Power Atatck:

Power Attack [General]

Prerequisite

Str 13.

Benefit

On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special

If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[Eldariel]

Power Attack states that you can't Power Attack with Light Weapons except for Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons. They're a specific exception, so while a Monk doesn't get the true value out of Power Attack, he surely can use it. Just not well. And only with 13 Str.

[SamTheCleric]

The server ate my post where I said the same thing after reading power attack.

[EvilElitest]

ignoring somebody only gives their arguments more credence
from
EE

[Solo]

ignoring somebody only gives their arguments more credence
from
EE

Sirrah, I shall not dignify that remark with a comment.

Consider yourself ignored, sir.

I say good day!

[Eldritch_Ent]

ignoring somebody only gives their arguments more credence

No it doesn't, that's just going after an Argument by Assertion.

[Behold_the_Void]

Power Attack states that you can't Power Attack with Light Weapons except for Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons. They're a specific exception, so while a Monk doesn't get the true value out of Power Attack, he surely can use it. Just not well. And only with 13 Str.

Of course, so can my Fighter while in a grapple. And he can get better mileage out of it.