You die, no saving throw, no ressurection.

[Jayngfet]

If I have this right:

Dying of old age does not allow any ressurection.

No spell I know of reverses the aging process.

When traveling from plane to plane time around you flows differently, spending a day on one plane is a century on another.

Therefore:When hopping from plane to plane on a campane, upon returning home you could die with no saving throw, turn to dust(no free willed undead), and be unable to get a resurrection.

Which raises another question of how you ressurect someone so simply, raising someone the next day could seem like enough time for their soul to be turned into some Pit Fiend.

I'm asking because I've only got the exact nature of a few planes left to finish, and the source of half the wold's problems come from the fact that some celestial or fiend can't just pop home and call for help before it's too latte.

[Collin152]

Plane Hoppers, ye be warned.

On another interestign note, if you know a plane where time moves right, you can planeshift your enemies there and never worry about them again, provided they don't have a means of getting back.

[Emperor Tippy]

IIRC there are a few planes where time actually moves backwards in relation to the Prime Material, don't ask me how that interacts with aging.

The best spell to stop aging is just PaO into an Elan, no maximum age. Or a warforged.

[monty]

If I have this right:

Dying of old age does not allow any ressurection.

True.

No spell I know of reverses the aging process.

Off the top of my head, Reincarnate returns you to young adult. Beyond that, I don't know. Also, Reincarnate requires you not already being dead of old age, so from your perspective it doesn't work anyway.

When traveling from plane to plane time around you flows differently, spending a day on one plane is a century on another.

Therefore:When hopping from plane to plane on a campane, upon returning home you could die with no saving throw, turn to dust(no free willed undead), and be unable to get a resurrection.

Here's where I lose you. Your age is measured by the amount of time (by your reference) you've been alive. If you spend a day on one plane, and a century passes on another, going to that plane isn't an instant death. You're still only one day older, because that's how much time has passed from your perspective. At the risk of killing catgirls, this is sort of like how special relativity works in real life.

Which raises another question of how you ressurect someone so simply, raising someone the next day could seem like enough time for their soul to be turned into some Pit Fiend.

Not sure what you're saying here. People don't just suddenly become pit fiends.

[tyckspoon]

If I have this right:

Dying of old age does not allow any ressurection.

No spell I know of reverses the aging process.

When traveling from plane to plane time around you flows differently, spending a day on one plane is a century on another.

Therefore:When hopping from plane to plane on a campane, upon returning home you could die with no saving throw, turn to dust(no free willed undead), and be unable to get a resurrection.

There's two aspects to this. The first is that planes with different time flows aren't that common, outside of people abusing the loose wording of the arcane Genesis spell to deliberately create one or a DM deciding to create one in his own cosmology. You can go around pretty near all of the Great Wheel without worrying about the timeflow. The other is that you do have it wrong; timeflows are only different relative to other planes. Any particular plane, and the beings inhabiting it, always experience their time as normal. One day is one day for the planar travel, wherever he goes. One day may be a hundred years from the perspective of other planes, however; the unwary planar traveler may return to his home plane and find out that everybody he knew has aged to death while he was gone. He'll still only be one day older.

[Jayngfet]

Here's where I lose you. Your age is measured by the amount of time (by your reference) you've been alive. If you spend a day on one plane, and a century passes on another, going to that plane isn't an instant death. You're still only one day older, because that's how much time has passed from your perspective. At the risk of killing catgirls, this is sort of like how special relativity works in real life.

According to the DMG, people have returned to their home planes and suddenly turned to dust, I'm just using what's said there.

Not sure what you're saying here. People don't just suddenly become pit fiends.

I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that human souls sent to hell can become Devils, so given enough time, you're loyal mook with the red chainmail(from his own blood) becomes a Pit Fiend.

[Worira]

Timeless trait

[Renegade Paladin]

Any random damned soul becoming a pit fiend is... very long odds. Doing so overnight is unheard of; it takes centuries if not longer to climb the ranks of Baator that far.

[monty]

According to the DMG, people have returned to their home planes and suddenly turned to dust, I'm just using what's said there.

I haven't seen that. Page number?

I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that human souls sent to hell can become Devils, so given enough time, you're loyal mook with the red chainmail(from his own blood) becomes a Pit Fiend.

They can, but it's unlikely if not impossible for it to happen overnight.

Edit: semi-ninjaed.

[Azerian Kelimon]

A high level wizard WOULD probably reincarnate into a Pit Fiend, though.

[Jayngfet]

I haven't seen that. Page number?



They can, but it's unlikely if not impossible for it to happen overnight.

Edit: semi-ninjaed.

Page 148, see the above entry for timeless.

[Renegade Paladin]

A high level wizard WOULD probably reincarnate into a Pit Fiend, though.

No, he wouldn't. Unless he had a pact specifically conceding his soul to hell and specifically stating that upon death he would become a higher-order devil, he would become a lemure like everybody else. The devils don't care how powerful you were in life; in fact, I would imagine that if they did care, it would only be insofar as they can further torture you with taunts about how pitiful your present form is compared to your mortal glory.

[Jayngfet]

No, he wouldn't. Unless he had a pact specifically conceding his soul to hell and specifically stating that upon death he would become a higher-order devil, he would become a lemure like everybody else. The devils don't care how powerful you were in life; in fact, I would imagine that if they did care, it would only be insofar as they can further torture you with taunts about how pitiful your present form is compared to your mortal glory.

High level wizards who spend enough time mucking around in serious evil probably know a fair bit about fiendish anatomy, unless they're genre blind then they're screwed.

[Azerian Kelimon]

No, he wouldn't. Unless he had a pact specifically conceding his soul to hell and specifically stating that upon death he would become a higher-order devil, he would become a lemure like everybody else. The devils don't care how powerful you were in life; in fact, I would imagine that if they did care, it would only be insofar as they can further torture you with taunts about how pitiful your present form is compared to your mortal glory.

Lemure are mindless and are only the souls of petty creatures. It follows form that that a powerful creature would reincarnate into a badass devil, as you don't shift species anyway.

[monty]

Page 148, see the above entry for timeless.

As far as I can tell, this only applies to Timeless planes, where time still sort of flows at the normal rate.

[shadow_archmagi]

Page 148, see the above entry for timeless.

Thats special for timeless planes.

On those planes, there is no aging, but once you leave its retroactive. If you spend ten minutes there while passing through, you get a ten minute jump at the end.

[Soup of Kings]

Page 148, see the above entry for timeless.

Okay, but according to the description, and my interpretation of it, the rate of time doesn't change on the Astral and other timeless planes. You don't hunger, age, thirst, carry poison or heal naturally, but that doesn't mean anything regarding the normal flow of time. In regards to the exact quote you gave about crumbling to dust, maybe if we put it in context it would be better understood. "Traditional tales of folklore tell of places where heroes live hundreds of years, only to crumble to dust as soon as they leave." So, yes, if you spent a hundred years (subjectively) on a timeless plane, then you would crumble to dust when you left. But if you only stayed on one for a week, then you would simply age a week instantly when you left. Time is always subjective, and the only danger of the situation you proposed is all of your loved ones dying while you're gone.

Edit: Ninja'd. Damn. I like mine better, though, longer and more thought out.

[Jayngfet]

Thats special for timeless planes.

On those planes, there is no aging, but once you leave its retroactive. If you spend ten minutes there while passing through, you get a ten minute jump at the end.

Misinformation, it's really page 168, there's a table and everything.

[Collin152]

Yeah, it isn't so dangerous if you're moving yourself.
When used as a weapon like I said above, though, you blink and your enemy is a pile of dust somewhere in the cosmos. Not that there aren't spells that do that without temporal mechanics, but you also wasted their soul beyond some god's power to restore.

[Soup of Kings]

Misinformation, it's really page 168, there's a table and everything.

He was talking about a plane which is both timeless (Hence the worry of disintegrating upon return) and has flowing time (Hence the worry of a few minutes becoming years), which makes both of our statements completely relevant.

[Renegade Paladin]

Lemure are mindless and are only the souls of petty creatures. It follows form that that a powerful creature would reincarnate into a badass devil, as you don't shift species anyway.

First, I must revise my earlier statement; he would not be a lemure; he would be a powerless soul shell that might become a devil (starting at lemure) at some future point after being tortured so much that he's lost all sense of his old identity. Secondly, yes devils do change types as they are promoted (and demoted, a common consequence of failure).

There are exceptions; erinyes, for instance, are fallen angels, and the form cannot be acquired through promotion (though erinyes can be promoted to higher order devils, including brachinas). A malebranche can only come to be through the demotion of a greater devil; no lower ranking devils are promoted to the form.

In short, wizardly might (or might of any other variety) means little after death no matter where you go; a servant of the gods becomes a petitioner, those tempted by the devils become soul shells and are traded about like currency, and much the same happens to those cast to the Abyss. The Fiendish Codices go into this in great detail.

[Azerian Kelimon]

First, I must revise my earlier statement; he would not be a lemure; he would be a powerless soul shell that might become a devil (starting at lemure) at some future point after being tortured so much that he's lost all sense of his old identity. Secondly, yes devils do change types as they are promoted (and demoted, a common consequence of failure).

There are exceptions; erinyes, for instance, are fallen angels, and the form cannot be acquired through promotion (though erinyes can be promoted to higher order devils, including brachinas). A malebranche can only come to be through the demotion of a greater devil; no lower ranking devils are promoted to the form.

In short, wizardly might (or might of any other variety) means little after death no matter where you go; a servant of the gods becomes a petitioner, those tempted by the devils become soul shells and are traded about like currency, and much the same happens to those cast to the Abyss. The Fiendish Codices go into this in great detail.

And the existence of the Heroic Islands trumps anything else, including all you said. Core beats splats.

[Lady Tialait]

Azerian Kelimon, where is the Heroic Islands? and that seems like a thing of good, different rules. Evil tends not to care. And As modus isn't one to care if you were awesome evil boo! Muhahaha in life, what have done for him lately?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Azerian Kelimon, where is the Heroic Islands? and that seems like a thing of good, different rules. Evil tends not to care. And As modus isn't one to care if you were awesome evil boo! Muhahaha in life, what have done for him lately?

...You realize how foolish that sounded? We're talking about Asmodeus, not frickin' monkey-brain and monkey head Demogorgon. He is perhaps THE most intelligent being in the whole multiverse, and you try to tell me he's stupid enough to spend time torturing you and transforming you to a Lemure?

PAH! What he'll do is mindrape you and shaft you to the Blood War as a pit fiend, if anything.

[Mando Knight]

and the source of half the wold's problems come from the fact that some celestial or fiend can't just pop home and call for help before it's too latte.

Amusing misspelling here... they can't save the world before it's turned to coffee?

Planar time seems to be rather messy... just don't mess up the PCs by throwing them into a "1 second here = 10 years there" plane or something...

[Emperor Tippy]

Core beats splats.

Um, no. Newest source trumps older source.

[Soup of Kings]

Um, no. Newest source trumps older source.

DM trumps all, so whether the splat book or the core book is correct is entirely subjective.

[Jayngfet]

Amusing misspelling here... they can't save the world before it's turned to coffee?

Planar time seems to be rather messy... just don't mess up the PCs by throwing them into a "1 second here = 10 years there" plane or something...

Unfortunatly, that's the whole premise of my world, other planes are mesterious and erratic, with the material plane having no other with time like it, hell only two planes are known with concrete evidence, and that's just because their inhabitants came over and discribed it, anyone trying to visit the world tree(home place of most outsiders) or living planet(birthplace of elementals) crumbles to dust upon returning, it wouldn't make sense for a couple thousand people to fight a three way war with no help if they can get reinforcments quicker than a century later.

...and yes, when the stars align the being benieth the waves will turn you into coffee...

...LATTE LATTE MOCHA FTAGAN!

[MeklorIlavator]

DM trumps all, so whether the splat book or the core book is correct is entirely subjective.

Right, but as this is an internet forum, and as every DM is different, that stance provides no basis for one to debate from. Thus, all these discussions have the inherent rule unless the DM says otherwise, and also regard the standard wizard rules(RAW) as the starting point of discussion, as those can be said to be the starting point from which any DM departs from.

[Soup of Kings]

Right, but as this is an internet forum, and as every DM is different, that stance provides no basis for one to debate from. Thus, all these discussions have the inherent rule unless the DM says otherwise, and also regard the standard wizard rules(RAW) as the starting point of discussion, as those can be said to be the starting point from which any DM departs from.

Oh, yeah, I know. I'm just saying that there's no need to argue those points when each person is free to interpret it however they want. If I want the Core books to override everything else, then that's fine. And if another DM says that newer sources trump everything, he can think that too. I understand that we're arguing how the RAW should be interpreted, I'm just stating my view; that being that I don't see much point to it.