Seeking the Great Minds of the Land (4e Dungeon Creation)

[SamTheCleric]

So Check it out...

For the big event on saturday that my local store is running, I just got an Email from the owner. I'll be DMing a dungeon crawl from 11:30-4:30. He told me to build a series of dungeon encounters for a level 1 party... using my 5 packs of dungeon tiles (since he gave me a discount on them).

What would be fun? I'm thinking some traps... some minions... maybe an elite and solo monster....

Any ideas?

EDIT: I'm also thinking of having a skill challenge involving some sort of running/jumping/climbing. Maybe have a room collapsing or something.

[Nohwl]

are you looking to kill them, give them a challenge, or do you want it to be pretty easy?

[SamTheCleric]

Give them a challenge. I'm gonna start easy and get progressively harder, hopefully ending with either 2 elites or a solo.

[Nohwl]

make them split up. just to make it interesting.

you could have opening a door be the trigger for the floor to drop out under the group.

[Adumbration]

Splitting them up may not be the best idea, seeing that it's one shot and the time is limited.

[Zrinfael]

With how much players have to rely on each other in 4e, splitting them up might be a "bad thing." How familiar with 4e are your players? Did they have access to the material early or will this be their first time holding the book?

[SamTheCleric]

With how much players have to rely on each other in 4e, splitting them up might be a "bad thing." How familiar with 4e are your players? Did they have access to the material early or will this be their first time holding the book?

We all get the books tonight at midnight... so saturday will likely be the first time they play.

I'll also be using the 6 Keep on Shadowfell characters, so they don't get customization... trying to keep it simple.

[kamikasei]

Splitting them up may not be the best idea, seeing that it's one shot and the time is limited.

Agreed.

My first thought is kobolds, or maybe goblins. The party are sent in to a dungeon because the residents have been making trouble. They get caught in a trap and stranded in the dungeon (your trap / collapsing room encounter) while skirmishing with the locals (some minions, archers, glue-pot-throwers etc.). Have the defenders withdraw before taking too heavy a loss. Then the kobold/goblin leader asks for parley, telling the PCs that there's something nasty deeper in the dungeon and that they've been raiding to keep it fed so it doesn't go on a rampage and wipe them out. This is your skill encounter, negotiating with the leader either to escort the PCs out and stop raiding if they deal with the nasty, or better to help set up a trap for the nasty to make the fighter easier. Then, the PCs go and fight the big bad, which would be a solo or elite pair a level or two higher than the party.

[Zrinfael]

I'd toss a little bit of everything at them in that case, the first encounter should probably be your combat tutorial by fire, 4 or so normal mobs coming at them from the front. After that mix it up. When you're using traps remember that they're only part of encounters now rather than the whole encounter in and of themselves. A gaggle of minions pushing you back into a pit trap you may or may not notice beforehand would be fun.

With everyone having way more hit points and survivability, withdrawl and retreat are valid options even for mooks should the situation call for it. I've always been partial to goblins as cannon fodder. For a twist you could introduce the "final" fight fairly early on and make sure the combatants pull back before significant damage is done to either side. Turn the whole crawl into a cat and mouse game. That would let you go from primarily mook encounters to primarily trap encounters as the party progresses, let 'em kill off all the mooks in the place little by little. That'd set your party up beautifully for a "Your men won't hear you, they're already dead." moment for the final conflict with the boss.

[Solo]

Make a dungeon door that has hinges on the outside, but must be pushed to open.

[ImperiousLeader]

Which Dungeon Tile sets do you have?

In general, I'd try to emphasize the mobile nature of 4e, making open battlefields with monsters that are going to shift around on the battlefield. Goblins and Kobolds are great for that.

[SamTheCleric]

Which Dungeon Tile sets do you have?

In general, I'd try to emphasize the mobile nature of 4e, making open battlefields with monsters that are going to shift around on the battlefield. Goblins and Kobolds are great for that.

Hmm, I've got the ourdoors one (ruins of the wild?), caves (caverns of the underdark), egyptian lookin one (hidden crypts?) and... Arcane Corridors which is the dugeon-y lookin one.

[Solo]

What would be fun? I'm thinking some traps... some minions... maybe an elite and solo monster....

Take a yellow hat, a blue robe, add a pinch of powdered gingsen, and voila!

If you don't have that, take a Succubus and give her sorcerer levels.

[Johnny Blade]

Agreed.

My first thought is kobolds, or maybe goblins. The party are sent in to a dungeon because the residents have been making trouble. They get caught in a trap and stranded in the dungeon (your trap / collapsing room encounter) while skirmishing with the locals (some minions, archers, glue-pot-throwers etc.). Have the defenders withdraw before taking too heavy a loss. Then the kobold/goblin leader asks for parley, telling the PCs that there's something nasty deeper in the dungeon and that they've been raiding to keep it fed so it doesn't go on a rampage and wipe them out. This is your skill encounter, negotiating with the leader either to escort the PCs out and stop raiding if they deal with the nasty, or better to help set up a trap for the nasty to make the fighter easier. Then, the PCs go and fight the big bad, which would be a solo or elite pair a level or two higher than the party.

If I may expand on your ideas...well, I'll do it anyway.

I'd make it Kobolds serving a young dragon that has recently moved in. 4e Kobolds are fun for everyone, trust me. And they of course always have lots of traps in their lairs. And they provide a good mix of units.

I'd have two factions, by the way.
One lead by the old chieftain of the tribe, who is pissed because his people must go on senseless raids that have now even lured hired mercenaries there. He'd want the dragon gone, so his people can live in peace (or keep all the loot ) again. He wouldn't attack the dragon, but won't stop the PCs either, as long as they leave his followers alone.
The other lead by a wyrmpriest (those are nasty, by the way), who would sacrifice the whole tribe for the fledgling dragon residing deeper in the caverns. He could have a Guarddrake variety's sake, I guess.
Of course, both factions could be wiped out, but only one (the wyrmpriest, obviously) would really be antagonists.

As for the Dragon, I'd say green, by the way. Just because.
Although the PCs should probably level up before that fight.

[SamTheCleric]

If I'm gonna do that, I may as well use the 5 encounter adventure in the back of the DMG... cause... well... that's exactly what it is. Kobolds and a dragon. Trapped filled dungeon.

:P

I'd like to venture outside of goblins and kobolds. What else is available at level 1? Skeletons? I havent seen how undead work out yet... spiders? orcs? (waaaagh!)

[kamikasei]

If I may expand on your ideas...well, I'll do it anyway.

Those are good ideas. Kobolds = dragon was the obvious first thought, but I wasn't sure how feasible a dragon was as an enemy for first-level characters, and wanted to allow for diplomacy with the kobolds. Your idea for that is very good.

I also like the mention of mercenaries. That could dovetail with Zrinfael's comment about the first encounter being "normal": you could have four hobgoblin guards at the entrance, followed by the trap/snipers, then the rest. That would demonstrate the PCs' power without killing anyone who the kobolds would care about.

Of course, the downside of all this is that it's very standard, as Sam points out. You could make something similar by ripping off the Burning Plague adventure, perhaps. An evil cleric as the boss, some undead minions, a group of something other than kobolds or goblins...

I suppose you could always use humans :P

[cybosage]

You could make it a gladiator style combat adventure. Make the PC's (for some random reason) be part of a test of skill that some crazy wizard is putting on.

For 5 hours, I would say 4 encounters max, especially with the new edition. In between the encounters, you can have interesting traps/challenges that get them to the next "level" of the tower/cave/complex that the event is taking place in.

You could use the fact that it's run by a crazy wizard as an excuse to make each "level" a completely different environment with different creatures.

Level them up after the second encounter, so they get to pick a utility power, and have the "final stage" be a solo encounter. At that level, it would probably have to be a young dragon.

Using skill challenges to get between levels, allowing them to level up once, and using a variety of environments and monsters will give them a pretty good overview of the new edition, IMO.

[SamTheCleric]

Hmm. I like the idea of making it multilayered. I don't want to level them up.. cause we're just gonna be using pre-gens... but if it happens, the KotS pre-gens already have the level 2 info there for 'em.

I was thinking of a room with lots of bones on the floor and an altar of orcus in the middle. Every round 1d4 skeleton minions raise from the ground until the altar is disabled either through Thievery, Religion or Face-Smashing.

[EvilElitest]

Use a traitor or some sort of spy to betray them mid game.
from
EE

[Johnny Blade]

If I'm gonna do that, I may as well use the 5 encounter adventure in the back of the DMG... cause... well... that's exactly what it is. Kobolds and a dragon. Trapped filled dungeon.

:P

Oh man, I really should at least read that stuff.


But there really isn't much besides Goblins and Kobolds for level 1 characters.

Undead would (presumably) work, since you have 6 PCs.
You'd mainly use Skeletons and Zombies, maybe a Specter or Ghost, I guess.

The question would be who raised the dead, of course.

Maybe, you could give it a backstory like...

Spoiler

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There was a tribe of dwarves, a secluded settlement in a mine, that venerated their dead more than most other people - no, no, not like that, the raise them as zombies part comes later.
Those dwarves were trading with a neighboring village, but the last two deliveries of gems or iron or whatever never reached this village. So, the people worried about the dwarves and sent the PCs to investigate the situation.
(Since the PCs need to travel to the mine, that could make for a nice warm-up encounter. A hungry wolf or a group of bandits deluded enough to think they can handle protagonists, maybe. I'd prefer the bandits for the opportunity of a skill challenge.)
Anyway, the mine is festering with Dwarven undead - some skeletons, some unnervingly "fresh" zombies. Some of the Zombies, however, should be even fresher and belong to other races.
In the tomb where the dead were once buried, a obviously crazy Ghost flies around, howling and screaming about treason and a sin against the Dwarven way. This is obviously either a miniboss (if the PCs attack or can't get the Ghost to calm down) or Mr. Exposition (if they can calm him down). You see, this is of course the founder of the settlement, who was a Cleric of Moradin (those guys are never just some average shmo).
If the PCs get him to trust them, he reveals that in a recent ritual, all the dwarves met to invoke the spirits of the dead to ask for guidance. This ritual was performed by his successor as the priest of the settlement, who however turned away from Moradin, although he doesn't know why. Anyway, the ritual was corrupted. The present dwarves were slain, only to rise again as zombies, as their ancestors rose as skeletons.
With the exception of said former Cleric, who was repelled by such Evil. Which is, of course, why he can't leave the tomb to help the PCs fight the evil priest that did this.
Anyway, some more fights ensue, and finally, the PCs meet the bad guy in the ritual chamber. And kill him.
In his possession, they find a diary journal, which describes that he planned to establish himself as a local power with his undead army, how he filled the ranks with hapless travellers, and what happened with the souls of the poor dwarves.
I'd say the priest either struck a deal with devils, sacrificing them and hurling their souls in the nine hells.
Or he decided that Vecna/Orcus was more his style anyway, in which case he sacrificed them to his new deity.
This is just cosmetic of course, although it could affect what allies you give him for the final confrontation.
Anyway, in exchange for this sacrifice, he was given enough power to form this army of the dead.

EDIT: That altar you mentioned is nice. Maybe all the skeletons and zombies the PCs kill would simply rise again after 1 or 2 rounds if they don't destroy the thing.

I also like the mention of mercenaries. That could dovetail with Zrinfael's comment about the first encounter being "normal": you could have four hobgoblin guards at the entrance, followed by the trap/snipers, then the rest. That would demonstrate the PCs' power without killing anyone who the kobolds would care about.

Actually, I was thinking about the PCs as mercenaries.
But you're right: a dragon, even a young one, could probably hire some, pissing some of the "emancipated" kobolds off even further.
Oh, and since mercenaries are only in it for the gold, that could even make for a nice social skill challenge.

[kc0bbq]

I'd like to venture outside of goblins and kobolds. What else is available at level 1? Skeletons? I havent seen how undead work out yet... spiders? orcs? (waaaagh!)

Here's the list of level 1-3 monsters from the MM:

Spoiler

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Halfling Slinger Level 1 Artillery
Kobold Slinger Level 1 Artillery
Dire Rat Level 1 Brute
Fire Beetle Level 1 Brute
Riding Horse Level 1 Brute
Goblin Blackblade Level 1 Lurker
Stirge Level 1 Lurker
Decrepit Skeleton Level 1 Minion
Giant Rat Level 1 Minion
Goblin Cutter Level 1 Minion
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion
Goblin Warrior Level 1 Skirmisher
Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher
Spiretop Drake Level 1 Skirmisher
Stormclaw Scorpion Level 1 Soldier
Elf Archer Level 2 Artillery
Goblin Sharpshooter Level 2 Artillery
Guard Drake Level 2 Brute
Kruthik Young Level 2 Brute
Zombie Level 2 Brute
Clay Scout (Homunculus) Level 2 Lurker
Gnome Skulk Level 2 Lurker
Halfling Stout Level 2 Minion
Human Rabble Level 2 Minion
Kruthik Hatchling Level 2 Minion
Elf Scout Level 2 Skirmisher
Gray Wolf Level 2 Skirmisher
Halfling Thief Level 2 Skirmisher
Human Bandit Level 2 Skirmisher
Hyena Level 2 Skirmisher
Rat Swarm Level 2 Skirmisher
Kobold Dragonshield Level 2 Soldier
Needlefang Drake Swarm Level 2 Soldier
Hobgoblin Archer (Goblin) Level 3 Artillery
Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery (L)
Spitting Drake Level 3 Artillery
Goblin Skullcleaver Level 3 Brute
Gravehound (Zombie) Level 3 Brute
Ochre Jelly (Ooze) Level 3 Elite Brute
Warhorse Level 3 Brute
Young White Dragon Level 3 Solo Brute
Gnome Arcanist Level 3 Controller (L)
Goblin Hexer Level 3 Controller (L)
Hobgoblin Warcaster (Goblin) Level 3 Controller (L)
Imp (Devil) Level 3 Lurker
Pseudodragon (Drake) Level 3 Lurker
Shadowhunter Bat Level 3 Lurker
Hobgoblin Grunt (Goblin) Level 3 Minion
Zombie Rotter Level 3 Minion
Doppelganger Sneak Level 3 Skirmisher
Orc Raider Level 3 Skirmisher
Wererat (Lycanthrope) Level 3 Skirmisher
Hobgoblin Soldier (Goblin) Level 3 Soldier
Human Guard Level 3 Soldier
Iron Defender (Homunculus) Level 3 Soldier
Skeleton Level 3 Soldier

Also, since you'll have physical copies of the books by that time, it is a trivial thing to alter a monster's level +/-5.

[SamTheCleric]

Woot, that adds a lot of options.

Do a goblin encounter... an undead encounter... maybe wolves... Rats and a rat swarm...

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hmm. I like the idea of making it multilayered. I don't want to level them up.. cause we're just gonna be using pre-gens... but if it happens, the KotS pre-gens already have the level 2 info there for 'em.

I was thinking of a room with lots of bones on the floor and an altar of orcus in the middle. Every round 1d4 skeleton minions raise from the ground until the altar is disabled either through Thievery, Religion or Face-Smashing.

Y'know what's a fun sort of dungeon to run in 4e? Lost Temples.

Yank a page from the Indiana Jones playbook. Start out with the PCs deep in a jungle, trying to get to loot the lost temple while avoiding roving bands of goblins/kobolds/orcs/savage humans. This way you can start off with an easy Skill Challenge - figure out how to get into the temple while avoiding the patrols. They can use Nature to find a covered path, Stealth to dodge bands, Perception to detect tracks to avoid patrol paths, Athletics to scale ruined walls, or Acrobatics to squeeze through a gap in the wall they noticed with Perception or Dungeoneering.

Once they get in the temple, combine a couple of the EL 1 and 2 traps with swarms (rat swarms are good), skeleton guardians, and so forth. The traps are really neat in 4e, and getting the players used to dealing with them (particularly with the new way of smashing them to bits!) will highlight an important change from previous editions.

Plus, lots of discrete encounters allows the PCs to see the Milestone system and get used to using encounter powers and action points. Key.

I'd say if you want to use the altar, give them a high priest necromancer (a leader type) who is drawing power from the altar to summon skeleton minions as a rechargeable action. Let him summon 4 skeleton minions with a recharge of 6, and give him a couple of group-buff powers, to illustrate how monsters really work as units these days. Give him a LV 1 Brute too, just as a bodyguard.

Be sure to spread loot in this dungeon (particularly potions of healing!) according to the rules in the DMG. The adventure-planning system they have in there is very detailed, and a great guide for starting out with this new system.

How's that sound?

[SamTheCleric]

Sounds like a rip-roarin' good time.

Hmm, easy to alter a monster +/- 5 you say... I wonder what a good "Scary" level 8 monster is out there that I can scale back to level 3... :P

[kc0bbq]

Woot, that adds a lot of options.

Do a goblin encounter... an undead encounter... maybe wolves... Rats and a rat swarm...

There's a lot of REALLY cool stuff in the 4-8th level range that you could drop down. Harpies are level 6, you could make them smaller, cavedwelling harpies.

This hasn't changed from the preview:

Boosting a monster’s level is easy. Just increase its
attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 for every level you
add. For every two levels, increase the damage it deals
with its attacks by 1. The monster also gains extra hit
points at each level, based on its role (see the “Monster
Statistics by Role” table on page 184).

Decreasing a monster’s level works like increasing
it, but in reverse. For each level down, reduce the
creature’s attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 and drop
its hit points based on its role. For every two levels, also
reduce its damage by 1.

This process works best for adjusting a monster’s
level up to five higher or lower. Beyond that, the monster
changes so much that you’d do better to start with
another creature of the desired role and level range.

It increases your options by another hundred some odd monsters to get within the appropriate range of level -1 -> +3 depending on fight difficulty.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Sounds like a rip-roarin' good time.

Hmm, easy to alter a monster +/- 5 you say... I wonder what a good "Scary" level 8 monster is out there that I can scale back to level 3... :P

I don't know if you're going to want to "scale down" powerful monsters. I mean, you don't want your PCs to think that 4e is "easy mode" D&D (it isn't, really). They'll be able to kick a lot of cinematic butt when you use minions, but be sure to combine minion versions with regular versions, to illustrate the difference.

Like, if you had a goblin patrol, have 4 goblin Minions and, say 2 goblin Soldiers to show that all goblins aren't paper tigers (like they've been) but that the PCs can still cleave through a bunch of goblins and feel good about it.

If you want an end-boss, you could take a Deathlock Wight (LV 4 Controller) and give him a Zombie Brute (LV 2 Brute) as a bodyguard, and a couple of Decrepit Skeletons (LV 1 Minions) to round out the final fight. The Wight has the ability to reanimate his Brute once per encounter - now that's a showy power to scare your PCs. This would be a very difficult fight, so maybe you'll want to put some warnings beforehand (a sealed door with ominous signs, for example) so that they don't enter it half-cocked.

Hmm... that sounds pretty fun actually. Between this final fight and the "sneak into the temple" I'd say put in no more than 2 Trap/Monster encounters, and maybe a skill check or two (a secret door that reveals a hidden healing pool, or maybe a social encounter with a friendly ghost of a fallen paladin who you can use Diplomacy/Bluff/Insight to get information on the challenges ahead?) to fill the time.

I have no idea how long combat actually takes, but the first battle will take some time while everyone figures out how to fight things. Maybe a EL 1 skeleton encounter in the entry hall of the temple will do it well, if they bypass the patrols?

[SamTheCleric]

If you want an end-boss, you could take a Deathlock Wight (LV 4 Controller) and give him a Zombie Brute (LV 2 Brute) as a bodyguard, and a couple of Decrepit Skeletons (LV 1 Minions) to round out the final fight. The Wight has the ability to reanimate his Brute once per encounter - now that's a showy power to scare your PCs. This would be a very difficult fight, so maybe you'll want to put some warnings beforehand (a sealed door with ominous signs, for example) so that they don't enter it half-cocked.

and maybe a skill check or two (a secret door that reveals a hidden healing pool, or maybe a social encounter with a friendly ghost of a fallen paladin who you can use Diplomacy/Bluff/Insight to get information on the challenges ahead?) to fill the time.

I'm doing this. 100%

You rock.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm doing this. 100%

You rock.

Heh, thanks. It just so happens that I just finished writing an adventure for a first level party myself, so I'm pretty comfortable with the system they have in place.

Good luck with the adventure, and be sure to let us all know how it turns out!

[SamTheCleric]

Here's what I've got...

Encounter 1: Outside with a few goblins.
Encounter 2: Giant Rats and Rat Swarms
Encounter 3: Trapped Room with an Ochre Jelly or two in it.
(optional) Encounter 4: If they find the secret door, talk to the ghost of a paladin who died in the temple. Social encounter challenge to get information about the ruler of the temple. If they succeed, the paladin gives them a level 1 magic item. If they fail, he vanishes.
Encounter 5: Deathlock Wight, Zombie Brute and Skeleton Minions in an epic final battle.


Thoughts? Changes?

[Kabump]

Here's what I've got...

Encounter 1: Outside with a few goblins.
Encounter 2: Giant Rats and Rat Swarms
Encounter 3: Trapped Room with an Ochre Jelly or two in it.
(optional) Encounter 4: If they find the secret door, talk to the ghost of a paladin who died in the temple. Social encounter challenge to get information about the ruler of the temple. If they succeed, the paladin gives them a level 1 magic item. If they fail, he vanishes.
Encounter 5: Deathlock Wight, Zombie Brute and Skeleton Minions in an epic final battle.


Thoughts? Changes?

Not being very familiar with the DMing side of D&D in any edition, it sounds like fun! Im really dying to try out some 4e, it sounds like a lot of fun from what I've read and heard, now I just need to somehow convince my group to at least try it out