4E GitP World-Building: Basic Setting and Themes

[Altharis]

Two great ideas on this great thread, but I suck with upbeat settings so I'll keep my comments to the post-Cataclysm setting.

Now, y'see if I was running this, I'd make it very Call of DnD-thulu. I'd have the following facts as canon:

The Obelisks were created to defend one great nation of wizards from another. There are Obelisks on BOTH sides of the border. The Obelisks are built in rows, going further and further into the heart of both countries. (Borders change, people!) The two nations have been in a Cold War-style stalemate for years, with both nations generating magical weapon after magical weapon, until finally the motherlode was created: A magical ritual that merge a section of (I'd use the Far Realms, but you can use anything. The Abyss maybe?) a plane with a city-sized chunk of this plane. Both sides sprang into action quickly, hoping to gain the advantage of surprise. The end result was that all the energies being formed combined and amplified, causing the entire continent to become merged with the Far Realms.

So the adventurers would be explorers, slowly venturing deeper and deeper into the heart of madness, to eventually come face-to-face with one of the Elder Gods!

Anythoughts on a Warped template or a Sanity mechanic?
Altharis

[Sequinox]

huh. Okay, for Zeta Kai and Gezina, I have an idea.

The obelisks are antimagic fields that were placed to protect a small portion of people from the Cataclysm. The people of the empire had a clue that something was coming, maybe sent by Altharis' other nation. However, only a small few people survived on either side. (Duh.) Around 1 to 5 % were mutated into evil opposites. (Drow, Duergar, Kobolds, etc.) but Humans were mutated into humans.

The cities that were hit weren't physically destroyed... Mostly. Think Lud from the Dark Tower III. Without the dead bodies hanging from lightposts or a suicicdal train... Actually, we could keep him and that would be a train to a faraway land on the other side of the world, Oriental Adventures style, with its capital named Topeka. (To keep with Dark-Tower-ness.)

The areas inside the obelisks are rich and fertile, but the area outside it has dead, cracked soil that is totally unfertile. Inside the obelisks up to lv 3 spells are allowed. If there are spell levels in 4e. I should be getting my books for it tomorrow.

MEGAPOST!

[Moff Chumley]

Woah Azerian, I didn't mean too upbeat. Couldn't be having with that, now, could we? Anyway, I'll make the tthread if I see any interest from the people on this one. I can't make this by myself, you know...

[gareth]

Count me in for the upbeat setting.

[Zeta Kai]

To anyone who is interested, I've started a thread for a more upbeat campaign setting. You can find it here: 4E GitP World-Building: The Positive Setting.

Now, shall we get back to working on the one we've already started making?

[Mewtarthio]

The obelisks are antimagic fields that were placed to protect a small portion of people from the Cataclysm. The people of the empire had a clue that something was coming, maybe sent by Altharis' other nation. However, only a small few people survived on either side. (Duh.) Around 1 to 5 % were mutated into evil opposites. (Drow, Duergar, Kobolds, etc.) but Humans were mutated into humans.

To be honest, I kind of prefer the idea that the obelisks were intended for defense, but nobody saw the Cataclysm coming. If people knew about it far enough in advance to prepare, then the leaders would be in the safe zones, with all sorts of contingency plans, and the setting becomes less about trying to strike out and survive and more about executing preplanned strategies.

I'd also like to have more Obelisks scattered about the map. Obelisks could be used to guard vaults, for instance, as well as a select few summer homes where the wealthy could relax without fear of assassing 'porting in or spies scrying on them (note that these would not be self-sufficient). You'd also have the maximum-security prisons, the asylums, and other places that would have Obelisks just to keep dangerous elements in control.

[Sequinox]

Huh. Good point with that one, Mewtarthio...

That gives me something to think about...

Maybe the country that used the cataclysm as a weapon wasn't expecting it to backfire, and it affected them and killed virtually all of them, while the country that was targeted was taken by surprise and random people who just happened to be inside the Obelisk's area of effect survived?

And the thing about private estates and prisons being in obelisk range would make sense. That gives us plot hooks: Jail breaks are going on and hardened criminals are being let into society, for good (Riddick, later on in pitch black) or bad (more real view on things). Maybe that could even be a campaign start in itself: The players are prisoners that need to break out... Though what would rush them would have to be decided later... A failing obelisk maybe?

And this is one of the awesomest world building threads ever. Just to let you guys know.

I like your idea, but I also like mine... Compromise!

[Zeta Kai]

Okay, so to revive interest in this thread (which I deem to have a good amount of merit) let's review the established “facts” so far mentioned (I will try to include as many consistent ideas as possible, & add a few more of my own):

• About 100 years ago, a vast empire dominated a large continent.
• This empire was an advanced magocracy, with an absurd amount of powerful magic.
• They had extremely widespread use of magic items, & even artifacts would only be somewhat uncommon.
• This empire had rival nations on all borders; these enemy states where also high-magic lands.
• The empire defended its borders with large obelisks, which projected permanent antimagic fields (1d10×500’ in diameter).
• The empire used these obelisks in many other areas, as well, such as near prisons, tombs, vaults, & other remote areas where protection from magic may have been desirable.
• The other nation may have used these obelisks as well.
• About 50 years ago, the Cataclysm occurred, killing over 95% of all sentient life (Intelligence 3+) on the continent.
• Those people that were not killed by the Cataclysm (1%-5%) were twisted, becoming evil or insane (template required); these fiends still plague the land to this day.
• The Cataclysm was a deadly wave of hurricane-like storms, composed of pure magical energy.
• These spell-storms left inanimate objects mostly untouched, although 50 years of decay have taken their toll.
• The cause of the Cataclysm is still unknown to this day, but various theories abound, mostly involving hostilities between the magical nation-states or some sort of epic magical accident.
• Anyone within the antimagic field of an obelisk was protected from the Cataclysm, which struck without warning.
• Some of the obelisks were damaged by the Cataclysm, while others appear to have been unharmed.
• Each area protected by the obelisks held a number of creatures from each PC race, although most safe zones are dominated by one particular race.
• Now, 50 years later, some of the survivors wish to leave the sanctuary of the obelisks & travel the wilds of the former empire.
• Magic is still widely feared & distrusted by the survivors, as is most religion (as it is commonly thought that the gods let the Cataclysm destroy the empire), leaving most safe zones bleak, gritty places filled with descendents of the “Lucky Ones.”
• Dangers in the wild include monsters, twisted creatures, mage-storms (weak remnants of the Cataclysm, which can still be deadly), & survivors from other safe zones.
• Possible incentives to travel through the wilds include riches left behind by those killed in the Cataclysm, libraries where the cause of the Cataclysm can be found, other safe zones with allies, aid or information, & of course many magical items & artifacts.
• Some magical colleges have been recently founded outside the protection of the obelisks, but they are viewed warily by most survivors as foolish & dangerous, & must be defended constantly from fiends & monsters.
• The general themes should be grim & dark: the struggle to survive, the no-win choices, & the ever-present threat of the unknown.
• Exploration, cartography, retrieval, diplomacy, & discovery would make common mission motivations.
• Other, distant lands, untouched by the Cataclysm, may exist, but they are remote at best.

That’s all we’ve got so far. Anybody wish to add something? Any issues with the “established facts”? Any consequences of the events in the setting so far that have not been addressed? PEACH away.

[horngeek]

To add something-

What is the effect of the Cataclysm on magic itself?
Think about it. You guys are going to have to decide what the nature of magic is to figure out what effect somthing like that would have on magic.

If it's something like the Weave from FR, no prob.
If instead, it's an energy source, you have a problem, because it's conceivable that the Cataclysm affected it in some way. Maybe that's what causes the after-effect storms? (come to think of it, that could be true even if it is like the Weave)

[Mewtarthio]

We don't want to make the Arcane power source any less attractive given that the setting already gives mages a downside (no magic in the most heavily populated areas). If the Cataclysm affected magic at all, then it would be to change it from something else to 4e's system.

[Zeta Kai]

I like the idea of the Cataclysm affecting magic in the continent, horngeek, but Mewtarthio is correct; we should not further penalize spellcasters (who are probably still smarting from the 4E nerfing as is). I propose that we include magic-boosting zones. They would function like an invisible "mist" (visible only with ethereal or magical vision) that would boost the power of magical spells, depending on the concentration of this "mist".

[LurkerInPlayground]

You know what I like about this setting?

There's this irony with the obelisks.

People either fear or don't particularly understand what magic is. But the obelisks themselves presumably operate on magic. So any future hopes or growth is necessarily limited by their understanding and study of magic. After all, they presumably function as environmental-regulators.

There's plenty of meat there for a story.

The obelisks themselves are major artifacts. Their construction didn't happen to be exactly be drama free. Maybe their construction is morally suspect. Creating new ones is a task that interests many people. Of course, to anybody still alive in the new age, the mechanism of operation of the obelisks is an apparent paradox.

In addition, don't forget that the obelisks themselves might very in strength. So caster might still be able to use some of their powers within the field of weaker obelisks.

I can picture a BBEG going around and shattering obelisks. What are his motivations for doing this? What does he know about pre-cataclysm history?

It's a nice mystery.

EDIT:
I'm also partial a culture where the worldly impact of gods are not well-understood.

Are gods merely quaint myths of a person painted over universal principles? Impersonal and cold?
Or are they merely sufficiently advanced beings that have taught select groups of mortals their secrets?
Are they omnipotent or omniscient?
Is atheism a valid philosophical position in this world? Does it even really matter when magic is relatively common?

Having this uncertainty, this debate, might make for an interesting facet of the campaign.

[InaVegt]

I've been thinking about the obelisks a lot, because one thing just kept bothering me.

That is that, as it looks now, some people will be entirely useless within the range of the obelisks.

And, I think that I have found the solution.

You see, the obelisks aren't, and have never been, true antimagic fields. In order to be able to properly defend the empire, the most powerful people of the empire should've been able to use their powers everywhere in the empire. As it was a magocracy, the most powerful people were wizards. As such, the majority of the combat powers of wizards should function within the range of the obelisks.

My proposal is: The obelisks don't stop any power, no matter the power source, from happening. Instead, no ritual can have any effect inside the range of the obelisks.

The thing that destroyed most of the world, would've at the very least been similar enough to a ritual, that the obelisks stopped their effects.

---

What do you think?

[Sequinox]

I like it, Gezina. That would balance the game more too. The only problem would be that, if it only blocked rituals, the nobles in their estates would have no reason to live there, the prisons were pointless, because wizards could bust out pretty easily, and things like teleportation circles wouldn't work there. Here's my idea:

Different Obelisks control different things: Some obelisks have powers that block all past lv 3 powers, some lv 19, some none, but protected against rituals, so it varies. I'll try to draw up a map later to show what I mean (I have an addiction to drawing maps) and post it, bu for now I was wondering what you thought of that.

[tsuuga]

What do you think?

I like it. Mechanically, you could explain it as giving off an antimagic pulse every (conveniently) six seconds, making it child's play to use a power between pulses, but impossible to build up power on the timescale of a ritual (or build the sympathetic magical connection necessary to teleport), and close enough together to dissolve roiling clouds of magic before they made it very far into the radius. For prisons and such, you could simply put multiple obelisks on offset cycles - reducing casting times to a max of 3 seconds (disallowing full-round spells) or minor actions only.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I like it, Gezina. That would balance the game more too. The only problem would be that, if it only blocked rituals, the nobles in their estates would have no reason to live there, the prisons were pointless, because wizards could bust out pretty easily, and things like teleportation circles wouldn't work there. Here's my idea:

Different Obelisks control different things: Some obelisks have powers that block all past lv 3 powers, some lv 19, some none, but protected against rituals, so it varies. I'll try to draw up a map later to show what I mean (I have an addiction to drawing maps) and post it, bu for now I was wondering what you thought of that.

Well, wizards aren't exactly OMGWORLDZAPPING powerful anymore. Binding their hands and gagging them is usually going to keep them from doing very much.

Or if that's not humanitarian enough for the kind of prison you want, blindfolding them or simply putting them in specially-made cells where you can approach them without worrying about line-of-sight, ought to be enough.

Nobles are rich. They can make special arrangements that most people cannot. They might have well-guarded summer homes or a special facility for rituals. And as pointed out, since the obelisks were the artifacts of a magocracy, then it'd be a simple enough affair to have a "blindspot" built-in to the area-of-effect. (Kept mostly secret of course.)

[Paragon Badger]

Hmmm...Reading your basic setting and themes has struck remarkably close to a setting I've been working on (since I got the 4E books, at least ) called Deicide. The concept is basically the Gods are all missing, and none have been naturally chosen to replace them. Leading to a world that's very much like the Black Death stretched out over 500 years. Everyone lives in huddled villages for protection. (Legend of Legaia meets Soul Reaver 1 ) Fey, Eladrin and most elves have all gone insane because the Nature God is no longer functioning, leading to ecosystems failing as animals no longer intuitively cooperate. People die (or children are born still) for no reason because the Life God is no longer functioning. Dead spirits don't get to their destinations, and sometimes can't be raised because the Death God is no longer functioning (and ghosts are everywhere) And to make things worse, demons and devils have poured into the material realm to take over.

I was going for a mid-apocalypse theme rather than a post-apocalypse. The PCs are directly responsible for saving the world as well, because in 100 years (if nothing changes) all the good races will die out.

Just to let you know that I had this in mind incase you see a thread pop up in a few days and claim I stole your idea. >_> Also, I'm willing to share ideas- might even glue my baby together with yours.

It's taking alot of time to provide alternatives to the now NPC-only divine casters, though. No gods = no power. (They're NPC because they suck, not because they're rare. Mega penalties.)

[Zeta Kai]

I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves. Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

• The Old Empire
• Other magocracies
• Obelisks
• The Cataclysm
• "Clysmist" (random magic-boosting zones)
• Ruins & Relics (what's left behind)
• Fiend template
• Dragonborn survivors
• Dwarven survivors
• Eladrin survivors
• Elven survivors
• Halfling survivors
• Human survivors
• Tiefling survivors
• Warforged survivors (if any)
• Far-off untouched lands

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings have found a way to work rituals within the obelisks, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Obelisk team). Any volunteers?

[Tormsskull]

Hmm, an idea for the chopping block:

Is there supposed to be any kind of intercommunication between these pockets of survivors? What if there was a race that was able to travel relatively freely between the pockets?

I suggest, the tieflings take that roll. They would be famous for traveling between the pockets, sharing information and selling odds and ends. They would be mysterious, and people would wonder why they are able to travel between the pockets. Some people would hate them, as their prices would be heavily factored by supply/demand, and many would think they were taking advantage of them.

As for the explanation of why the tieflings are able to do this, it could either be that a tieflings hellish heritage sort of hides them from the creatures, or discourages them from taking or something like that. Or, if that explanation is no good, it could be that they inherited the knowledge of secret tunnels and pathways that allow them to avoid the dangers.

Thoughts?

[InaVegt]

Hmm, an idea for the chopping block:

Is there supposed to be any kind of intercommunication between these pockets of survivors? What if there was a race that was able to travel relatively freely between the pockets?

I suggest, the tieflings take that roll. They would be famous for traveling between the pockets, sharing information and selling odds and ends. They would be mysterious, and people would wonder why they are able to travel between the pockets. Some people would hate them, as their prices would be heavily factored by supply/demand, and many would think they were taking advantage of them.

As for the explanation of why the tieflings are able to do this, it could either be that a tieflings hellish heritage sort of hides them from the creatures, or discourages them from taking or something like that. Or, if that explanation is no good, it could be that they inherited the knowledge of secret tunnels and pathways that allow them to avoid the dangers.

Thoughts?

Or how about that Tieflings are actually some kind of fiend, but a kind that didn't turn on the pocketed races. As such, Tieflings aren't trusted by the pocketed races ("Never trust a Tiefling, my son, they are a dangerous sort."), but they are the prime target of the other fiends. ("Kill Tieflings on sight, young warriors, they associate with the unwarped, as such, they are traitors.") For this reason, Tieflings are constantly on the move, traveling from pocket to pocket, staying in a pocket as long as the pocket's inhabitants will tolerate them.

They don't want to stray out of the pockets, they have to. If they stay in a single pocket too long, they'll be forced to go, in merciful villages.

[Gargor]

Sweet this world seems off to a good start.
just thought i would throw in my 2 cents. For one, i agree that the Obelisks shouldn't just null any magic, it would hurt the game and not really make any sense (who heard of a world ruled by mages who couldn't cast spells?) Also i think it might be interesting if the Obelisk's power sort of faded out the farther you go from them instead of there just being in the Obelisks power range and oout of it. also, maybe the obelisks don't just keep magic out, but also in. what if there are areas where there is massive amounts of magic from the cataclism stuck inside an Obelisk's range. It could create some cool high level dongeuns.
Finally i don't think the corrupted area's should be destroyed, just twisted, filled with fiends, mutants and undead. think less wastelands, and more ddark, haunted forests.
Some ideas for races:
elf/ eldarin: Elfs were one race that lived in the forest. eldarin split off to teach humans magic and eventually got ingrained in their society. Since this knowledge lead to the cataclism, elves have a hatetred of their former kin.
Dwarves: An ancient race dimly remembered in human legends. long ago they left the upper worlds to live in their cities and halls undergrounds. however the cataclism has destroyed much of their world and now there is a mass exodus of dwarves coming to the upper world.
Also i like the idea of tiefling traders who are immune to the cataclism, but trusted by none.
just my random ideas.

[horngeek]

Dwarves: An ancient race dimly remembered in human legends. long ago they left the upper worlds to live in their cities and halls undergrounds. however the cataclism has destroyed much of their world and now there is a mass exodus of dwarves coming to the upper world

This reminds me of the Warhammer Dwarfs, maybe you could stel the grudges? (They are resentful of humans for causing the cataclysm)

[Szilard]

Have I commented on this yet? Because I think this is awesome what you guys are doing here, but I don't really thing I can help untill I get the DMG and the MM.

[Zeta Kai]

Have I commented on this yet? Because I think this is awesome what you guys are doing here, but I don't really thing I can help untill I get the DMG and the MM.

I don't have any 4E books, nor do I plan to in the near future. I'm just working on fluff & organization. I like world-building, & I think community-based projects are fun & beneficial for the community at large (although reach consensus on anything is a hassle).

Any thoughts you may have are appreciated, even if they are uninformed.

[Szilard]

I think the Kobolds should be orange!

But seriously, I'd have to reveiw most of the information again to think of any tips.

[Szilard]

I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves. Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

• The Old Empire
• Other magocracies
• Obelisks
• The Cataclysm
• "Clysmist" (random magic-boosting zones)
• Ruins & Relics (what's left behind)
• Fiend template
• Dragonborn survivors
• Dwarven survivors
• Eladrin survivors
• Elven survivors
• Halfling survivors
• Human survivors
• Tiefling survivors
• Warforged survivors (if any)
• Far-off untouched lands

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings have found a way to work rituals within the obelisks, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Obelisk team). Any volunteers?

I think I'll work on the Halfling survivers when I have time.
In the meantime, do we know what the dominant race of the old empire was?

[Sequinox]

I'm giving far off lands a try.

For one, we need to decide WHY the far off and untouched lands are far off and untouched. Is it because of massive mountains? Oceans? Desert? (I'll use ocean for now.)

Then, how hard is it to cross the ocean? Is it dangerous or does it take just a long time?

When the far off lands are finally in question, what happens there? Are they gnome seperatists who left the world because they weren't in 4e? I mean... Because they hated the world or something? An oriental adventures styled continent that would be more upbeat? Wastelands? I could go on for a long time.

So... Where are the far off lands...? I think that we need to start working out definite geography... Ooh, that can't be good.

[Zeta Kai]

You want geography? Here's geography:

Spoiler

Show

And here it is again, with obelisk locations:

Spoiler

Show

For the latter map, here's the key:

• Human (spread evenly all over the world)
• Dwarf (mostly in the Eastern Mountains & the Western Hills)
• Halfling (clustered around the Central Plains & Inner Sea)
• Half-Elf (concentrated in the Western Peninsula)
• Elf (all over the western lands)
• Eladrin (scattered around the continent, mostly in small remote enclaves)
• Dragonborn (located predominately in the Northern Plains)
• Tiefling (small pockets along the southern & eastern coasts)

As for the layout, I figure you've got the following facts:

• The Old Empire's capital was located around the Inner Sea
• It was surrounded on almost all sides by competing magocracies
• The obelisks were used as a mutually-assured defense against ritual magic, & therefore found use in a number of different applications, such as watchposts, prisons, palaces, & vaults; the populations of survivors within each one is highly variable (some harbored thousands, some protected only a few dozen)
• The Eastern Islands were virtually untouched by the Cataclysm (& the resulting Clysmist), & the people there have grown prosperous & powerful since those dark times

Well, that's my contribution (PEACH). What's yours?

[Siosilvar]

If I can, I'll work with someone on the south peninsula (the one with all the tieflings on it).
Does that qualify as "far-off" lands?

Hmm... I'm kind of liking the idea of it being a jungle, sectioned off from the mainland by a series of wide rivers.

[Sequinox]

Zeta Kai, that's incredible. What program was that, anyway? (The maps)

As for far off lands, I noticed 1 thing in particular: That tiny spot of land in the north that goes off the map. That could be the northern far off lands. Now we need to make it difficult to reach... But as for what is there, I think someone said isolationist gnome sorcerers... That might have been another thread, though. Anyway, that sounds interesting.

Here goes:

Far to the north, in snowy, freezing mountains and fertile valleys in between, gnomes live. They practice arcane magic. Any outsiders are met coldly, if not with hostility. They are borderline xenophobic. There are two major types of gnomes: the ones that live in the mountains and caves (tinkerers: 3.5 flavored) and those that live in the valleys (fey: 4.0 flavored). They are on perfect terms with each other.

Also, the positive thread has a name. That means we need one soon to not become obsolete... I don't have any ideas, though.