[4e] Screw complains!

[Tengu]

From now on, I ignore all threads and posts where people compare DND 3.5 to 4.0 and complain that 3.5 is better, for one reason or another. I don't care. They will not change my mind, I'll play the game I like and they'll play the game they like. I want my fourth edition threads to be about builds, ideas, adventures and other stuff, not thinly-veiled flamewars.

Likeminded individuals, feel free to post.

[Crow]

A lot of it reminds me of the people that flipped out on reviewers who didn't give the last GTA a perfect score...There's always at least one of those guys who shows up when somebody posts something even moderately negative about 4e. So the 4e side isn't innocent either.

But anyhow....

Has anybody tried a Warlord/Wizard build yet? I want to, but am currently stuck with my Ranger. Does the build work out well in play? Is the Intelligence synergy as beneficial as it looks like it could be? I admit I am a little reluctant to play a Warlord, as I like being able to dish out loads of damage. Do Warlords hold their own?

[Tengu]

I haven't tried such a combo before, but it should work well depending on what specific powers to choose. I'll give more info once I reach my books again.

As for warlord, remember that he's proficient in martial melee weapons. Grab a maul or something like that and your powers will deal a lot of damage (although not as much as fighters or paladins), as well as buff your allies.

[Azerian Kelimon]

A lot of it reminds me of the people that flipped out on reviewers who didn't give the last GTA a perfect score...There's always at least one of those guys who shows up when somebody posts something even moderately negative about 4e. So the 4e side isn't innocent either.

But anyhow....

Has anybody tried a Warlord/Wizard build yet? I want to, but am currently stuck with my Ranger. Does the build work out well in play? Is the Intelligence synergy as beneficial as it looks like it could be? I admit I am a little reluctant to play a Warlord, as I like being able to dish out loads of damage. Do Warlords hold their own?

I'm going for one in one of the games I'm playing (Yours, Tengu). So far, it seems like it'll work out really well, since I'm planning on taking Illusionary Ambush, which synergizes with the idea of giving support to the teammates the Leader archetype has (After all, if the enemy can't hit them, I do not need to heal them). It'll probably work out pretty well.

[Kurald Galain]

I predict this thread will quickly turn into a thinly-veiled flamewar

[EvilElitest]

i fail to see the point of this thread? Could you simply just not go onto those thread? All you did Tengu was announced your going to not change your mind no matter what anybody else says. What does the thread accomplish? Is it suppose to be some 4E anti criticism thread or what. Also i notice you dropped the banner of hell
from
EE

[The Necroswanso]

Um...Okay then... this is seriously just trolling. If you're not going to read a certain kind of thread, that's your choice, a personal matter. Making a thread is just screaming, "Hey, pay attention to me."

[Kizara]

Um...Okay then... this is seriously just trolling. If you're not going to read a certain kind of thread, that's your choice, a personal matter. Making a thread is just screaming, "Hey, pay attention to me."

Pretty much.

To the OP: I'm sorry so many people think 4e is garbage and that they feel compelled to call it out for what it is.
I'm sorry that you can't handle that your bubble might burst if you were to consider their PoV.

So yes, by all means proclaim your defiance loudly! Scream your willful ignorance to the heavens and let all those that question you be damned!!

[Tengu]

Ah, sweet irony.

This thread has three purposes:
1. To show that I'm fed up with all the constant flamewars.
2. To try to make people agree that they have different opinions on 4e, instead of throwing muck at each other.
3. To gather the people who think like me under one banner.

Also, to all anti-4e people who just love to post vigorously:
Reread the forum rules, please. Especially point 9 underneath "flaming".

[Swordguy]

Ah, sweet irony.

This thread has three purposes:
1. To show that I'm fed up with all the constant flamewars.
2. To try to make people agree that they have different opinions on 4e, instead of throwing muck at each other. And since those two posters above apparently came here with this in mind, they got reported.
3. To gather the people who think like me under one banner.

But...people don't want to agree. Both sides have very clearly made up their minds, and mere facts aren't going to change either side's behavior. Really, it'd probably incredibly heavy-handed action from the mods (so heavy handed that they'd lose half the forum or more) to stop it.

Human nature sucks, don't it? *wishes for a smiley rolling its eyes in annoyance*

[Tengu]

Except that pro-4e people mostly just want to be left alone with their game. It's the anti-4e people who won't rest till they show the whole world what they think about 4e. Compare the number of anti-4e posts in threads about 4e and anti-3.5 posts in threads about 3.5.

[FoE]

The problem is these threads proclaiming "I like 4E" or "I hate 4E!" Honestly, there's no winning this war, but these kind of threads just stoke the flames. It would be better if every thread stating "I love/hate Fourth Edition" just died, and from now on, if you had a specific topic you wanted to discuss pertaining to either 3.5 or 4E, you would state in the title.

It's not that I disagree with you, Tengu, but I'm tired of this pointless infighting. Shouldn't we all be playing the actual game instead of debating which version is better?

[The New Bruceski]

Except that pro-4e people mostly just want to be left alone with their game. It's the anti-4e people who won't rest till they show the whole world what they think about 4e. Compare the number of anti-4e posts in threads about 4e and anti-3.5 posts in threads about 3.5.

While a lot of posts are complaining about 4e, I would not be surprised to find out the people felt the need to do so due to pressure on them to switch. There's been flames either direction, and I won't pretend to have been above them. It's a very polarizing thing right now, with people in either camp not only having their preference, but feeling compelled to defend it.

I haven't had prior experience from other edition changes (2-3rd was when I went to college, so it was an easy transition), but I've been a feral druid in WoW since they were barely playable (let alone actually a good choice). I've learned that one does not need an enemy to feel that they are under attack.

[Killersquid]

Not gonna try to get into this Tengu, but this, no matter who side is on what, will degenerate into a flame war real fast. I would ask a mod to keep an eye on this if you want to keep it going.

[Tengu]

Good advice. I will keep that in mind.

It's not that I disagree with you, Tengu, but I'm tired of this pointless infighting. Shouldn't we all be playing the actual game instead of debating which version is better?

So am I. This is the purpose of this thread.

[Tormsskull]

From now on, I ignore all threads and posts where people compare DND 3.5 to 4.0 and complain that 3.5 is better, for one reason or another. I don't care. They will not change my mind, I'll play the game I like and they'll play the game they like. I want my fourth edition threads to be about builds, ideas, adventures and other stuff, not thinly-veiled flamewars.

Likeminded individuals, feel free to post.

I completely understand frustration, but this seems quite extreme. First, while everyone's opinion is important, why is your stance on people who compare DND 3.5 to 4.0 so important that it deserves its own thread?

Then, calling for likeminded individuals seems kind of silly. While demanding builds, ideas, adventures and other stuff, and not wanting thinly-veiled flamewars, you've actually created a thread that is almost wholly a flamewar.

[Tengu]

Flamewar was not the intent of this thread (on the contrary, it's a call to stop flamewars) - I should have been more foresighted though, and predicted it will dissolve into one over time (haven't yet, but there are signs).

Also:

As for warlord, remember that he's proficient in martial melee weapons. Grab a maul or something like that and your powers will deal a lot of damage (although not as much as fighters or paladins), as well as buff your allies.

After checking, Warlord's offensive powers grow at the same rate as other melee characters'. A warlord who favors strength will have power comparable to offensive fighters and paladins.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Flamewar was not the intent of this thread (on the contrary, it's a call to stop flamewars) - I should have been more foresighted though, and predicted it will dissolve into one over time (haven't yet, but there are signs).

Also:



After checking, Warlord's offensive powers grow at the same rate as other melee characters'. A warlord who favors strength will have power comparable to offensive fighters and paladins.

Not so much. Paladins and Warlord lag WAY behind the fighter, just look at Dragon's Fangs. They're no pushovers, but they can't match the guy who dedicated himself to pure and simple hack 'n slash.

[Indon]

I predict this thread will quickly turn into a thinly-veiled flamewar

Well, yeah. But hey, there could well be constructive conversation in this thread. You never know.

Except that pro-4e people mostly just want to be left alone with their game. It's the anti-4e people who won't rest till they show the whole world what they think about 4e. Compare the number of anti-4e posts in threads about 4e and anti-3.5 posts in threads about 3.5.

Alternate causal theory:

Pro-4E threads fall and die because anti-4E individuals don't bother them.

Anti-4E threads get posted to and thrive because pro-4E individuals start arguments in them.

That doesn't seem like 'just want to be left alone'. At least, not for the people you're positing.

[Saph]

Flamewar was not the intent of this thread (on the contrary, it's a call to stop flamewars)

Actually, there have been quite a few threads with good discussions on 4e. You can spot them by the fact that they don't have the word 'Screw' in the title and by the fact that the opening post is generally about the game, not about what the OP dislikes about other posters. Funny the way that works. :P

- Saph

[EvilElitest]

Except that pro-4e people mostly just want to be left alone with their game. It's the anti-4e people who won't rest till they show the whole world what they think about 4e. Compare the number of anti-4e posts in threads about 4e and anti-3.5 posts in threads about 3.5.

no offense Tengu, i think you've gotten only one perspective here. IN any anti 4E thread, you have troups of people showing up defending it radically against people who don't like it. There aren't as many anti 3E threads because
A) 3E has been around far longer, an anti 3E thread would just be redundant
B) anti 4E people aren't necessary pro 3E people

It is the radical defense of 4E against all critisim that leads to the problem just as much as critisims of it
from
EE

[darkzucchini]

Except that pro-4e people mostly just want to be left alone with their game. It's the anti-4e people who won't rest till they show the whole world what they think about 4e. Compare the number of anti-4e posts in threads about 4e and anti-3.5 posts in threads about 3.5.

I don't want to fan the flames, but I would like to point out that there is a very good reason that so many anti-4e threads have been made. People who prefer 3e over 4e (and I say prefer because most of us felt that 3e needed its own fair share of changes) feel that their game is being taken away from them. The advent of 4e means the death of new material for 3e and, while we could certainly homebrew all sorts of new classes and worlds and ect, most of us enjoyed the prospects of new splat books as homebrewing takes a significant amount of time and many of us are busy with work or school.

Thus 3e supporters are trying to make enough noise to get WotC to realize that they have alienated a large portion of their base, either to get WotC to continue the 3.5 line, or to drive the business under so that somebody else can grab the rights and revive 3.5. I just want you to understand that, while there more threads attacking 4e than 3e, it is 3e supporters who truly feel that they are under attack, having the game that they loved taken from them and changed into something that they no longer enjoy.

[hamlet]

Just cause I found it amusing:

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifesty...6/alttext_0618

[Tengu]

Heh, fun.

Not so much. Paladins and Warlord lag WAY behind the fighter, just look at Dragon's Fangs. They're no pushovers, but they can't match the guy who dedicated himself to pure and simple hack 'n slash.

Compare to Pillar to Post. If all three attacks hit, it deals damage equal to 4[W]+2*strength, and an ally's 2[W]+strength. As an encounter power. Comparable in power.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This thread is an invitation to a thinly-veiled version flamewar. No one creates a thread for the purpose of being left alone. Feel free to express your opinions on any rpg, within the Forum Rules of course, but don't start threads solely for the purpose of "rallying the troops" - pro, con, or otherwise. If you really want to be left alone to do your thing, just go start your game in PbP and have at it.