4E "That Can't Be Right..." Moments...

[TheEmerged]

Pardon me while I make fun of myself.

Wait, the kobolds in the sample adventure in the DMG start at with 24 & 27 HP at first level, but even my party fighter doesn't have that much! What gives?

Turns out that once again, reading is an important skill to have "Hit Points at 1st Level:" for every class reads "X+ Constitution score". I was adding the modifier alone...


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Off Topic: I can be barbarian now? ;)

[SamTheCleric]

Haha, I did that the first time I built a character... I couldnt figure out why my rogue had less than 20 when the rogue in KotS had a SMALLER con and more hitpoints.

Live and learn....

[VForVaarsuvius]

In my RPG, linked to below, someone was joining and races have a few base stats for you to add onto. He thought they where class stats, though, and would keep saying stuff like "Why do bards have so much strength" and "Why do wizards have so much accuracy"? Truly, reading is a good skill to have.

[Lord Herman]

I had a "That Can't Be Right..." moment when one of the 1st-level PCs decided to push a 30-hp goblin off a cliff, and succeeded with a single roll versus fortitude.

I knew the goblin should have gotten some kind of saving throw, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the text on Bull Rush. I later found out it was mentioned in the DMG, in the part about terrain hazards.

[mikeejimbo]

One of our players made that HP mistake. I'm actually amazed that I didn't!

[Dhavaer]

I made the hp mistake too, the first time.

I was pretty stunned when, while running a casual duel between a warlock I planned to use and a few monsters, the warlock (lvl 2) bloodied a tangler beetle (lvl 5) with a single, mighty spell. That was pretty awesome. Apparently 4e PCs can solo things well above their level.

[TheEmerged]

I had a "That Can't Be Right..." moment when one of the 1st-level PCs decided to push a 30-hp goblin off a cliff, and succeeded with a single roll versus fortitude.

I knew the goblin should have gotten some kind of saving throw, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the text on Bull Rush. I later found out it was mentioned in the DMG, in the part about terrain hazards.

It's also on PHB 284, under "Falling". In three tries now during my 'test' runs of the sample scenario in the DMG, I've yet to have someone fail the save to go into the sludge pit.

[Justin_Bacon]

There are rules for escaping from ropes but no rules for tying ropes? That can't be right...

(It's right.)

[turkishproverb]

There are rules for escaping from ropes but no rules for tying ropes? That can't be right...

(It's right.)

But Use Rope is USELESS! just like Craft and Perform!

[Oracle_Hunter]

There are rules for escaping from ropes but no rules for tying ropes? That can't be right...

(It's right.)

I, for one, cannot sleep at night unless I know that I can screw up tying a rope.

No, Thievery is not substitute! I want a d% table to tell me what kind of knot I tie, and how hard it is to get out of, just like the good ol' 2e unarmed combat table. Gosh darn it, how can you endorse a system without rigorous knot-tying mechanics! Isn't that the point of making a system in the first place?

Spoiler

Show

What can I say? I'm still amused that people are baffled by the lack of a Use Ropes skill. It's hi-lar-i-ous

[icefractal]

There are rules for how much illumination magma provides - but no rules for how much damage lava does. Not even a possible range, or "if you fall in lava, you die" - all it says is that lava, like pits, is hazardous terrain.

And yet they go into detail on things live Bloodstone, various types of dungeon slime - don't you think lava might be a little more iconic than that stuff?

[bosssmiley]

I had one over the basic resolution mechanic:

"d20 + 1/2 class levels + mods? So...everyone is in a 1/2 BAB class now?"

[Dan_Hemmens]

I had one over the basic resolution mechanic:

"d20 + 1/2 class levels + mods? So...everyone is in a 1/2 BAB class now?"

Actually, everyone is a 2/3 BAB class now, since 4E has more "levels" than 3.X.

[arnoldrew]

Actually, everyone is a 2/3 BAB class now, since 4E has more "levels" than 3.X.

No...everyone is 1/2 BAB, because you basically get 1 point of BAB every other level.

[Dan_Hemmens]

No...everyone is 1/2 BAB, because you basically get 1 point of BAB every other level.

No, nobody is anything BAB, because BAB isn't a 4th edition concept.

Point being: If you're going to compare 5E "level bonus to attacks" with 3.X "BAB" then 2/3 is a better comparison than 1/2, because at your top level (20 in 3.X, 30 in 4E) you wind up with +15.

[Curmudgeon]

If you're going to compare 5E "level bonus to attacks" with 3.X "BAB" then 2/3 is a better comparison than 1/2, because at your top level (20 in 3.X, 30 in 4E) you wind up with +15.

That would be 3/4 BAB (15/20) then, the same as for the middling classes like Rogue in 3.x.

[Dan_Hemmens]

That would be 3/4 BAB (15/20) then, the same as for the middling classes like Rogue in 3.x.

Quite right. I am an idiot. I was thinking the middling path was 2/3 not 3/4.

Oh dear maths.

[nagora]

Point being: If you're going to compare 5E "level bonus to attacks" with 3.X "BAB" then 2/3 is a better comparison than 1/2, because at your top level (20 in 3.X, 30 in 4E) you wind up with +15.

Flippin' heck, Tucker! Dan's already moved onto the next edition!

Edit: is it any good? Are there rules for tying knots?

[Dan_Hemmens]

Flippin' heck, Tucker! Dan's already moved onto the next edition!

Maths. Not. Work. Today. Help.

Edit: is it any good? Are there rules for tying knots?

It sucks. There's no rules for tying knots and no social skills. How do I speak in character now!

[potatocubed]

So, here's a quirk I've discovered...

Failing a skill challenge doesn't bring an adventure to a grinding halt, it just forces you to do things the hard way.

But D&D characters gain very real strength - in the form of XP and loot - from adversity.

So characters will level up faster by failing skill challenges than they possibly could by passing them, especially when you consider the relative reward weightings for combat and non-combat encounters.

Am I missing something?

[Starsinger]

I had one of those "This can't be right..." moments when I asked my group if they wanted to play D&D and they didn't groan.

[Flickerdart]

It sucks. There's no rules for tying knots and no social skills. How do I speak in character now!

No, no, man. It's realistic, since we nerds that play it also have no social skills.

[Tallis]

Fighters don't get proficiency with plate armor.....

....is that a misprint?

[Learnedguy]

So, here's a quirk I've discovered...

Failing a skill challenge doesn't bring an adventure to a grinding halt, it just forces you to do things the hard way.

But D&D characters gain very real strength - in the form of XP and loot - from adversity.

So characters will level up faster by failing skill challenges than they possibly could by passing them, especially when you consider the relative reward weightings for combat and non-combat encounters.

Am I missing something?

Why talk when you can cave in his skull and take his stuff?

Seriously, hasn't it always been like that?

[Dan_Hemmens]

Fighters don't get proficiency with plate armor.....

....is that a misprint?

Doesn't seem to be.

If I had to guess, I'd say it was designed to make lightly armoured fighter builds more viable. Previously there was literally no reason for a Fighter not to wear Plate, because it's pretty much better than everything else and you've paid for it in advance, as it were.

A light blade fighter is pretty viable in 4E, particularly with Rain of Blows.

[SamTheCleric]

Doesn't seem to be.

If I had to guess, I'd say it was designed to make lightly armoured fighter builds more viable. Previously there was literally no reason for a Fighter not to wear Plate, because it's pretty much better than everything else and you've paid for it in advance, as it were.

A light blade fighter is pretty viable in 4E, particularly with Rain of Blows.

*nods*

Fighter in Scale Mail with the Scale Spec feat gets the full +8 Armor, no check penalty and no penalty to movement. With an elf, that's moving 7 squares in heavy armor. *drool*

[kamikasei]

Fighters don't get proficiency with plate armor.....

....is that a misprint?

I think the logic is "instead of making them pay a crazy price for basic, mundane plate, we'll just make them spend a feat".

[Charity]

A spear or sword specialist fighter is likely to have a decent dex, in fact the best AC available is, i believe Hide armour with a maxed out Dex so it's possible that a fighter will actually avoid heavy armour all together.
On top of this Plate is not all that to be honest, you get 1AC and for that you sacrifice 2 off a load of skills and in the Paragon tier you can even lose the movement penalty for scale.

[Pinnacle]

A warlord can wake people up from unconsciousness by yelling at them.

[Kurald Galain]

Why talk when you can cave in his skull and take his stuff?

Seriously, hasn't it always been like that?

No

First edition D&D had explicit rules that if you were to hit a dragon with the flat of your sword, doing half damage, you could tame him by reducing him to zero hit points that way. Exactly how you use the "flat" of a lightning bolt is unclear. Then again, that rule was more than a little silly, hence it hasn't showed up (to my knowledge) in any later edition.