4E "That Can't Be Right..." Moments...

[The New Bruceski]

RE: Fighter/Paladin plate. Hey, give the poor fighters a break, they can barely afford scale armor & both a melee & ranged weapon ;)

You got a ranged weapon? Scale, shield, adventurer's kit and a longsword left me with 20 gp. Cheapest non-sling is 25 gp.

[Mewtarthio]

Sometime in 4E, people are just too smart to wear good armor.

Well, what do you expect? If you're that smart, you're either an evil mastermind (in which case you're required by law to wear either simple dark clothes or a lab coat; capes are optional) or the group's "smart guy" (in which case you'll be wearing somewhat unattractive street clothes, and probably glasses). Only the big, dumb losers wear good armor!

[Helgraf]

Hmm, did a doubletake on seeing that Shields now benefit your Reflex defense as well as your AC - especially since the way the character sheet is laid out, this is not obvious.

[Somebloke]

Well, only because you asked so nicely *gives Collin griffin-hugs as well*

Now get back on-topic!

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

You crushed their ribcages. I hope you're happy.

One of the more jarring things concerning player options- why do I have a mental image of some 4e design editor sitting in a chair, stroking a hairless cat and saying, 'look people- all I want here are clerics with frikken lasers.'

[shadow_archmagi]

Hmm, did a doubletake on seeing that Shields now benefit your Reflex defense as well as your AC - especially since the way the character sheet is laid out, this is not obvious.

Wait, what!? How does that... what!?


Wha!?

[Pepz]

I'm still having a "that can't be right" moment about death and dying. I just can't believe that there's only a 5% chance of stabilizing by yourself when at 0 hp.

Seems like such a small chance.

Haven't played 4e yet so not sure how often PC's hit 0 hp.

[Renegade Paladin]

Meteor swarm only does 8d6+INT damage. Except wait, that is right.

[OneFamiliarFace]

No, Thievery is not substitute! I want a d% table to tell me what kind of knot I tie, and how hard it is to get out of, just like the good ol' 2e unarmed combat table. Gosh darn it, how can you endorse a system without rigorous knot-tying mechanics! Isn't that the point of making a system in the first place?

Holy crap! I forgot about that table! Haymaker ftw. Man, and now I'm remembering second edition martial arts when playing a ninja was awesome.

Erm...sorry...nothing about 4e here. Just. You know. 2e had some awesome stuff, complicated as crap or not. But while I'm still off-topic: Griffin hugs are about the coolest thing I've heard of recently and will be spread liberally by the new King of Griffins added to my first 4e campaign.

Perhaps my PCs will have a "That can't be right" moment!

[JaxGaret]

Re: Shields giving a bonus to Reflex saves - this is a model of shields protecting a portion of the body from harm. I.e. if a fireball explodes next to you, one can use the shield to block some of the effect.

I'm still having a "that can't be right" moment about death and dying. I just can't believe that there's only a 5% chance of stabilizing by yourself when at 0 hp.

Seems like such a small chance.

Haven't played 4e yet so not sure how often PC's hit 0 hp.

This is incorrect. Here is what the rules actually say:

Death Saving Throw: When you are dying, you need to make a saving throw at the end of your turn each round. The result of your saving throw determines how close you are to death.
Lower than 10: You slip one step closer to death. If you get this result three times before you take a rest, you die.
10–19: No change.
20 or higher: Spend a healing surge. When you do so, you are considered to have 0 hit points, and then your healing surge restores hit points as normal. You are no longer dying, and you are conscious but still prone. If you roll 20 or higher but have no healing surges left expressed as a negative number, your condition doesn’t change.

Thus, it is a 5% chance each turn that you stabilize on your own. If you run the maths, you'll see that a Dying character left to their own devices has about a 1/3 chance of stabilizing themselves, and a 2/3 chance of transitioning to Dead.

That's without any bonuses to the Death saving throw that some characters will have.

[potatocubed]

Lower than 10: You slip one step closer to death. If you get this result three times before you take a rest, you die.

Incidentally, the implication of this is that if combat ends and you can 'rest' before you die, you'll get better again. Although the number of hp you have in this instance is unclear to me.

[Mewtarthio]

Incidentally, the implication of this is that if combat ends and you can 'rest' before you die, you'll get better again. Although the number of hp you have in this instance is unclear to me.

Any sort of rest (by the official definition of the term: ie "short or extended rest") requires at minimum five minutes of time. Thus, you'd in theory have to keep rolling for the next thirty rounds before you'll have sufficiently rested. In practice, of course, you'll either have teammates on hand to revive you or have a TPK on your hands (in which case the monster simply eats you and everything fades to black).

[chiasaur11]

Well, what do you expect? If you're that smart, you're either an evil mastermind (in which case you're required by law to wear either simple dark clothes or a lab coat; capes are optional) or the group's "smart guy" (in which case you'll be wearing somewhat unattractive street clothes, and probably glasses). Only the big, dumb losers wear good armor!

Hey, we're a progressive bunch.
You can also wear a lab coat.
(but only if you're smoking a pipe at least once a week)

Doctor coats are okay too.

[tbarrie]

Lower than 10: You slip one step closer to death. If you get this result three times before you take a rest, you die.

Incidentally, the implication of this is that if combat ends and you can 'rest' before you die, you'll get better again. Although the number of hp you have in this instance is unclear to me.

To me, the implication is that if you drop below 0, fail two saving throw against death, get healed, and are knocked back below 0 during the same fight, then you've still only got one strike left.

Even if you argue that a disabled character starts "resting" as soon as combat stops around them (which seems a bit silly), you haven't actually taken a rest until five minutes have passed.

[THAC0]

To me, the implication is that if you drop below 0, fail two saving throw against death, get healed, and are knocked back below 0 during the same fight, then you've still only got one strike left.

This is correct, from my understanding.

Fortunately, my DM didn't realize this till after my poor Paladin had gone down and up several times during one combat!

[King_of_GRiffins]

Erm...sorry...nothing about 4e here. Just. You know. 2e had some awesome stuff, complicated as crap or not. But while I'm still off-topic: Griffin hugs are about the coolest thing I've heard of recently and will be spread liberally by the new King of Griffins added to my first 4e campaign.

Perhaps my PCs will have a "That can't be right" moment!

Oh no, it'll be perfectly right Please, send me a copy when you stat him out!

As for death and dying, I seem to have encountered the same problem last session, and we were wondering when, after combat, does our near-dead party member come back up? Lasting five-minutes and then getting a healing surge seems about right, though in the end, I just used 'Inspiring Word' to give him a brief eulogy at which point he just stood back up.

[TheEmerged]

You got a ranged weapon? Scale, shield, adventurer's kit and a longsword left me with 20 gp. Cheapest non-sling is 25 gp.

No shield, and the ranged weapon is a sling

[Starbuck_II]

You got a ranged weapon? Scale, shield, adventurer's kit and a longsword left me with 20 gp. Cheapest non-sling is 25 gp.

throwing dagger (that is throwing a dagger)?

[erikun]

Buy javelins, handaxes, or throwing hammers. STR bonus to attacks and damage, and cheaper than a crossbow. You'll need to grab more from the dead kobolds, though.

[Starbuck_II]

Buy javelins, handaxes, or throwing hammers. STR bonus to attacks and damage, and cheaper than a crossbow. You'll need to grab more from the dead kobolds, though.

When ever i use a Sling I mine (read as camp) Kobolds for special ammo. I mean, that stuff is rarer than epic magic items. Magic items you can eventually make or buy: but no one sells Fireshot or Glueshot.

[Helgraf]

Wait, what!? How does that... what!?


Wha!?

It's not perfect, but look at it this way - Reflex is getting out of the way. A shield is more like mobile cover than armor; so you're combining your Reflex (movement to minimize the impact) with the cover of your shield to minimize your exposure to the effect.

Yeah, I know, you could then counter-argue that armor should do the same thing. I said it wasn't a perfect reasoning. However, while armor is generally custom-cut to fit your body, shields project around the body by the nature of their shape; so you can use them to create a sort of blast reduction area.

[Charity]

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