Death Note Werewolf Game (ongoing)

[Saint Nil]

Freshmeat, because I think Artemis is just a Kira victum. No smart power-role would reveal themselves in the beginning.

Freshmeat gave no evidence towards me, so peole just randomly follow him. WAY too suspicious in my book. This diverts alot of attention away from him, having me, Mordokai, and Artemis in the spotlight.

[Freshmeat]

Actually, that was just a point to avoid the autolynch so I could catch up in the meantime. No need to panic. I don't really consider myself at risk here, but I'd still like to say you're not exactly giving much evidence either, Saint Nil.

So I've become 'suspicious' for... doing what exactly?
Being silent? Please. Up until now, no situation was worth commenting on, although I find it most interesting (and regrettable, avoidable and annoying) that we've wasted all of our lynches so far on killing masons, one of whom even claimed to have a power role in the main thread (and then still got lynched anyway).
For that, there are no excuses. Even in Demonking's case.

And no, killing a Yotsuba Member is unquestionably bad at this point .


Another thing I'd like to point out quickly before people assume something wrong later on: should it turn out that Artemis was influenced by the Death Note (which certainly seems a possibility), it does not necessarily mean we can trust Mordokai. For all we know, the claim - including the 'criminal' part - was entirely staged, which would mean that Mordokai wasn't at any risk of getting actually lynched anyway. Just something to keep in mind.

I'd also suggest pointing at those people who tried to kill known masons. Until we get reliable suspicions, we can at least avoid lynching a mason yet again that way.
So I change my point to Recaiden.

That's a good reason to be watchful of him... he's going under the radar, which either means he's avoiding the Kiras, or he's avoiding us.

You do realize what you just said?
Let's watch out for him... he could be good, or he could be evil!!

How about we keep an eye on those people that jumped on the Demonking bandwagon instead, even after he blatantly admitted to having a power role? Any sensible person would've given Demonking the benefit of the doubt for at least one day, rather than off him before that could happen.

If Haruki is even slightly right, we'll find out tonight if Mordokai is good or bad.

How?
If Artemis is controlled indeed, we still wouldn't know if she was ordered to accuse Mordokai (and she threw the criminal part in herself to give us a hint at what's going on) or accuse him of being a criminal (as part of a greater ploy).

[Mordokai]

I'm not going to claim I'm innocent, nobody will believe me anyway. But hey, why not. Recaiden

[Bayar]

How?
If Artemis is controlled indeed, we still wouldn't know if she was ordered to accuse Mordokai (and she threw the criminal part in herself to give us a hint at what's going on) or accuse him of being a criminal (as part of a greater ploy).

Well...if Artemis doesnt die, then we know she wasnt controlled. And that could mean that Mordokai is truly a criminal. Although, lynching a criminal is not a good idea...

[Saint Nil]

Fair enough Freshmeat. Recaiden.

[Griever]

Recaiden, best case I've heard thus far.

[Murska]

Logic! Finally! Recaiden!

[Recaiden]

The case being that i followed a bandwagon by picking between the 2 people and ended up voting for the wrong one? I agreed with Haruki's reasoning. He wasn't a known mason when i voted.
I think that Vampiric is the one we need to watch out for. I know it's not St. Nil. And Light scries as a villager, not a criminal.
Edit: Pointing at Bayar in an attempt to stay alive.

[TFT]

Freshmeat does have the wisest course of action right now... so Recaiden

[Free Hand]

Does anyone else find it funny that people always follow Freashmeat unquestionably? Seriously its insane!!

EDK may have had a better chance at survive had he not used the same ploy in numerous games, really he just cried wolf once too often to be taken seriously. I really do hope you're a kira Freashmeat because people need to learn not to rely on your judgment so easily!!

I vote Recaiden now as well for the moment because I'm not about to drown trying to swim against the tide.

[TFT]

((Wait... why are we lynching recaiden... he wasn't even the first person to vote for fleeing coward. The first was Banjo, on a random point. Even Recaiden's was a random point, so wouldn't you have said we should lynch banjo? So as such, I cannot trust you right now...)) *Points at Freshmeat*

[Artemis97]

(I was guessing that criminal = a kira...., but anyways)

Catseye gets up from his spot and approaches Artemis. He tosses her a clear blue marble. "Take it," he says,"as a sign of a friendship, if we even make it out of here alive."

A little surprised, Artemis reacts quickly to catch the marble in both hands. "Thank you." She says seriously, her tone matching the smile hidden beneath her helmet.

((And just to clarify, I was saying Mordokai is a criminal as in the role and I'm pointing at him because I really don't have any other evidence and I don't want to point at random. You all can feel free to interpret that however you like, follow my lead, or don't. That said, I'm liking a lot of Freshmeat's logic, although I have no opinion either way of who he's pointing at.))

[Lamech]

Recaidens, the best we have right now he at least isn't a NPA or board member.

And since there appears to be some confusion, Board members and criminals are effectively good guys right now. Also there isn't really a baner in the public rules, (that I can see, please correct me if I made a mistake), so revealing your role will get you killed.

[Freshmeat]

A few things I feel compelled to point out:

Spoiler

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The case being that i followed a bandwagon by picking between the 2 people and ended up voting for the wrong one? I agreed with Haruki's reasoning. He wasn't a known mason when i voted.

The case being that for lack of solid leads, we might as well thin out the group of definite non-masons, since that should pretty much halve the odds of accidentally killing a power role. I'm not so much arguing for your guilt here as simply suggesting that people keep the previous days of voting in mind when thinking of targets. My suggestion may have been embraced like (spoiler alert!) the second coming of Jesus, but it's just a very simple and rough guideline, really.

I think that Vampiric is the one we need to watch out for. I know it's not St. Nil. And Light scries as a villager, not a criminal.
Edit: Oh well, looks like everyone thinks i'm one of them. Your loss.

Elaborate.

Does anyone else find it funny that people always follow Freashmeat unquestionably? Seriously its insane!!

I really do hope you're a kira Freashmeat because people need to learn not to rely on your judgment so easily!!

Following someone blindly is no worse than opposing someone blindly.

((Wait... why are we lynching recaiden... he wasn't even the first person to vote for fleeing coward. The first was Banjo, on a random point. Even Recaiden's was a random point, so wouldn't you have said we should lynch banjo? So as such, I cannot trust you right now...)) *Points at Freshmeat*

So Banjo is more suspicious than Recaiden because he threw the first point? That kind of reasoning is ridiculous. I also wouldn't give too much weight to 'random votes', as most of them are anything but. Just treat them as normal votes.

Once again: I'm not saying Recaiden is guilty. I don't know that. At this point, I'm just reminding everyone that chances are pretty good the NPA and Yotsuba wouldn't vote to get one of their own killed (which is pretty obvious anyway) and that voting to get Demonking killed after he claimed to have a power role is, to use an obvious euphemism, 'questionable'. It wouldn't be the first time that those who shout the loudest that a certain power role claim can only be a lie are actually wolves. I can name three games off the top of my head where this is precisely what happened (Girl Genius, Alchemists I and Vampire II).

Demonking lying about his role? It's happened before. But more often than not, he did have a power role (just a different one) and he is generally more truthful about his allegiance than most others. Does this mean that voting for Demonking is guaranteed to be a wolf move? Not necessarily, but it's still a decent enough reason to base accusations on until more information pours in, even if you keep in mind that people generally fear 'looking gullible' more than 'killing an ally'.
There is only shame in making a mistake.

((And just to clarify, I was saying Mordokai is a criminal as in the role and I'm pointing at him because I really don't have any other evidence and I don't want to point at random. You all can feel free to interpret that however you like, follow my lead, or don't. That said, I'm liking a lot of Freshmeat's logic, although I have no opinion either way of who he's pointing at.))

Then I have only one question: now that it's been explicitly pointed out that criminals are the good guys in this game, do you claim to have made a mistake or not?

[Haruki-kun]

Following someone blindly is no worse than opposing someone blindly.

Yes, it is. Opposing someone won't get anyone killed.

Now that I got out of my system...

*points at Recaiden*

We seem to disagree on out views of how people actually work in this type of game. I do agree with a lot of your reasoning, though not all of it. Seeing as you have more solid evidence than me at this point (my evidence being more liquid than anything at this point), I will agree with you for now.

Disclaimer: This means, of course, that I have no evidence as to whether or not Recaiden is guilty.

[TFT]

Alright, lets use a second example then. Frigs also pointed at the NPA guy and didn't vote the first day, which could mean that he didn't want to look suspicious for not pointing at the board member, or that he couldn't vote. So we could point at him, saying that he didn't know that fleeing coward was a mason, so he must be it.

After I wrote my first arguement I looked back and agree that recaidan would make a better choice then banjo, because he pointed at both of the lynched while banjo only pointed at the NPA, but still, the point stands. (even then, it makes banjo suspicious for not knowing that fleeing coward is a NPA)

And for the whole pointing at EDK thing, He was accusing people for no reason, and made the first page chaos. He claimed to be a good power role, but the way he was randomly accusing people doesn't seem logical, because he could point at another good group. Unless all the NPA and L and his group all know each other, which isn't stated.

[Recaiden]

There is the possibility that i have a good power role and made a mistake. <- What happened.

[Haruki-kun]

I don't know why pointing at a mason in this case would be suspicious. Did this person know he was pointing at a Mason?

[Griever]

I don't know why pointing at a mason in this case would be suspicious. Did this person know he was pointing at a Mason?

Day 1, right? Only other masons should know that he was one, unless I'm missing something.

@V *cuts off Free Hand's toes*

[Free Hand]

Well if that is the case and Recaiden is an important character then we can blame Freashmeat for being horribly horribly wrong, course I doubt he could be THAT off, unless he's Kira... it bothers me that its hard to picture him as a werewolf.

It also bothers me that our current goal is to try really hard to not accidentally kill criminals and Masons, and if you're an anti-kira or something then that would be considered a victory of a sort. To succeed in not cutting off our own toes every round!

[Artemis97]

Then I have only one question: now that it's been explicitly pointed out that criminals are the good guys in this game, do you claim to have made a mistake or not?

I am telling you all that Mordokai is a criminal. Despite what I am telling you, I am still pointing at him. If you think that is a mistake, and he is a good guy, I can change my point. In fact, I've done a little thinking, and I'm not going to point at anyone this round.

[Dragoon]

Update on auto-lynches

those with 1
Freshmeat_
Frigs
lamech

those with 2
detrevnisisiht
Moon_Called
Zombie pixe

Also, forewarning update maybe coming up later due to work. I'm hoping not, but no guarantees.

And yes, Ganurath was a criminal

[Freshmeat]

Spoiler

Show

Yes, it is. Opposing someone won't get anyone killed.

Hm, I wouldn't say so. You can still oppose an idea and vote to get someone else lynched instead. It happens all the time. It's only bad when you shoot down certain ideas by default rather than think them over.

Seeing as you have more solid evidence than me at this point...

No more than any of you, actually.

Alright, lets use a second example then. Frigs also pointed at the NPA guy and didn't vote the first day, which could mean that he didn't want to look suspicious for not pointing at the board member, or that he couldn't vote.

I'll have to interrupt you here for a second.
Why would not pointing at the board member be suspicious?

So we could point at him, saying that he didn't know that fleeing coward was a mason, so he must be it.

(even then, it makes banjo suspicious for not knowing that fleeing coward is a NPA)

It makes him mathematically more likely to be a wolf. That is all.

And for the whole pointing at EDK thing, He was accusing people for no reason, and made the first page chaos.

Chaos isn't as bad as it sounds, really. It just needn't grow out of control.

Compare it to today. You've got a certain degree of order, yet this day is pretty much still one huge bandwagon and we're probably not going to learn much from it. Very bad.
Hence why I have to be a little careful where I throw my points around. No worries, I'll provide the counterbandwagon to my own soon enough so we can at least gather something from today's voting.

Well if that is the case and Recaiden is an important character then we can blame Freashmeat for being horribly horribly wrong, course I doubt he could be THAT off, unless he's Kira... it bothers me that its hard to picture him as a werewolf.

And how was I horribly, horribly wrong? I never stated he was a wolf, nor did I ask for anyone to follow my lead. I actually stressed these point quite thoroughly...

There is the possibility that i have a good power role and made a mistake. <- What happened.

Works for me. Can't go wrong with a second bandwagon choice at least, and it's not like a lie would last longer than a few days anyway. And people don't forget easily about lies either (just look at Demonking).

How about bayar?
(interesting how people blatantly wait for me to post the counterbandwagon rather than start one up themselves...)

I'd really appreciate a PM from Recaiden explaining a few things though. It's not like he has much to lose from this position anyway.

[TFT]

I have a feeling that Freshmeats counterwagon will involve me somehow... Oh well, we will cross that bridge when we get to it. bayar, because I don't think this choice will change much anyways.(as in, bandwagon = too powerful) As a side note, since we have close to no information, there is no way to make this lynch count.

[Copacetic]

Point at bayar.

[Mordokai]

Why not? bayar

[Reinholdt]

((Hmm. I'm more suspicious of Vampiric then either of these two so I'll go with him.))

[Freshmeat]

Quick tally, because things are turning out interesting after all:

Recaiden - 7 votes
bayar - 6 votes
rest - whatever

[Bayar]

Quick tally, because things are turning out interesting after all:

Recaiden - 7 votes
bayar - 6 votes
rest - whatever

Wow...since when do people want to lynch me ? I mean, that was more of a random point on the part of freshmeat. But everybody follows him because...why ? (BTW, it is Recaiden 6, bayar 5 )

How about bayar?
(interesting how people blatantly wait for me to post the counterbandwagon rather than start one up themselves...)

Yup...random point to start another bandwagon.

I have a feeling that Freshmeats counterwagon will involve me somehow... Oh well, we will cross that bridge when we get to it. bayar, because I don't think this choice will change much anyways.(as in, bandwagon = too powerful) As a side note, since we have close to no information, there is no way to make this lynch count.

How can you be so sure ?

And then points at me with the text: "Why not?".

Why not? bayar

Oh, I dunno...maybe because I was one of the people that didnt point at you in the begining...seeing as you are a criminal (part of team good)...


Anyway, point at Recaiden because I dont trust him. He said:

There is the possibility that i have a good power role and made a mistake. <- What happened.

Well then, why did you post once on day one, jumping on the demonking bandwagon? why did you posted once on day 2, jumping on the fleeting coward bandwagon? Why did you post on day 3 only when a bandwagon against you was starting to form ?

[TFT]

I wasn't really expecting the bayar bandwagon to become that big... As a sidenote, I was excpecting the recaidan bandwagon to stay more or less intact, but seeing as Freshmeat has a following (not something I would know being the first WW game I've played with him, second game on the boards : / ) I will change my vote to Frigs, since he has the same voting record as recaidan. (hopefully my last change)