Will Julia return?

[Cybertoy00]

Anyone remember Julia, Roy's little sister and Eugene's favorite child? Who here thinks she might return, and under what circumstance?

[denthor]

More than likely and to give Roy a hard time call him a loser. Really not be important.

[Steward]

She'll return and marry Vaarsuvius, and their children will be hermaphroditic Duskblades or something.

[MagusBloodsoak]

It would be cool to see her become the team Teleporter in the long term. Unfortunately unless the comic drags out longer than expected, Julia is unlikely to gain the necessary experience. She's need to be 9th level to use Teleport, and even then she'd only be able to teleport 3 of the Order with her per trip. So even specialising in conjuration she's not alot of good. Last we heard she was 3rd level, and while the amount of experience you need to get from 3 to 9 is relatively easy compared to moving from 15 to 16, I don't think there's enough time unfortunately.

Besides, it'd be easier for Celia to fill this job on the team roster, she's alot closer for one thing.

EDIT- speaking of which, wow, Shojo's best Wizard must have been awesome. He'd be what, 18th level? They really should have resurrected him already to help the resistance.

[Who149]

Eh, Its iffy. She's not a major character. She's just as likely to return as Jenny is.

[Mutant Sheep]

Eh, Its iffy. She's not a major character. She's just as likely to return as Jenny is.

Slightly less actually. Celia is dead by the way. Murdered by the vengeful ghosts of murdered gnomes, who are mad at her for putting chocolate in the recycling bin.

[MoonCat]

Slightly less actually.

Slightly more. Why less?

[Bedinsis]

My pet theory is that after the current gate is destroyed, and 1-2 members of the Order are dead, the rifts have increased to such a size that people actually starts noticing them. When Julia realizes that the guy looking for the rifts is the same guy she has that pesky blood oath to destroy, she realizes that if she wants to enter the afterlife she pretty much must take her chances at the present time. And her best odds are teaming up with the only group currently trying to foil Xykon, i.e. the Order. So they team up.

I fully expect to be wrong; the Giant seems to ignore the argument that it lies in the younger Greenhilt's interest to have Xykon destroyed.

[MagusBloodsoak]

The thing is, I don't think enough time exists for Julia to become useful. I'd like it if it were otherwise, because she seems like an interesting addition to the Order, but she has basically nothing to offer them right now. Even if she's jumped up to level 4 since we last saw her, that's still pathetic. The Kato's are higher than that.

Celia as team teleporter in the future makes more sense, since she can't be far off.

[Burner28]

I don't see much chance of her returning.

[Studoku]

EDIT- speaking of which, wow, Shojo's best Wizard must have been awesome. He'd be what, 18th level? They really should have resurrected him already to help the resistance.

He's a typical NPC teleporter slave which means if anyone asks, he has 3 levels in wayfarer guide (Complete Arcane).

This would make him cast spells as an 11th level wizard- useful but not enough to really swing the battle.

[Dr.Epic]

I see no point. She's in Cliffport and there's no reason for the Order to back there and no reason for her to come to the Order.

[KillianHawkeye]

She'll return and marry Vaarsuvius, and their children will be hermaphroditic Duskblades or something.

Just curious, but where are you getting the Duskblade idea from? Julia and V are both Wizards.

[The Pilgrim]

My pet theory is that after the current gate is destroyed, and 1-2 members of the Order are dead, the rifts have increased to such a size that people actually starts noticing them. When Julia realizes that the guy looking for the rifts is the same guy she has that pesky blood oath to destroy, she realizes that if she wants to enter the afterlife she pretty much must take her chances at the present time. And her best odds are teaming up with the only group currently trying to foil Xykon, i.e. the Order. So they team up.

I fully expect to be wrong; the Giant seems to ignore the argument that it lies in the younger Greenhilt's interest to have Xykon destroyed.

1) The Blood Oath is passed to the elder surviving descendant, which is Roy. Julia is, right now, not affected at all by the Oath. (And, if the Oath hereditary rules work similar to a Monarchy, she may never be affected at all, provided Roy manages to sire some children).

Of course, Julia should realize that as soon as her brother is trounced, chances are good that she will be burdened with it (as Roy lacks children and as the inheritancy rules of the Oath might affect her before Roy's possible scions). However...

2) Julia is True Neutral. Which means she couldn't care less about a Blood Oath that prevents her soul into Celestia.

[FujinAkari]

1) The Blood Oath is passed to the elder surviving descendant, which is Roy. Julia is, right now, not affected at all by the Oath. (And, if the Oath hereditary rules work similar to a Monarchy, she may never be affected at all, provided Roy manages to sire some children).

This isn't true. The Blood Oath doesn't specify anything about eldest descendants, just descendants, it passes on to all of them.

2) Julia is True Neutral. Which means she couldn't care less about a Blood Oath that prevents her soul into Celestia.

But it doesn't prevent her soul from getting into Celestia, it prevents her soul from getting to an afterlife ("my soul will not rest")

[Steward]

Just curious, but where are you getting the Duskblade idea from? Julia and V are both Wizards.

True, but I thought Uncle Roy's bad influence might corrupt them a little bit.

EDIT- speaking of which, wow, Shojo's best Wizard must have been awesome. He'd be what, 18th level? They really should have resurrected him already to help the resistance.

Wouldn't they need his remains? If he was buried in the crypt at Shojo's temple, they would need the 9th level spell True Resurrection to bring him back (since his body would either have been destroyed, abandoned, or turned into a skeleton by Xykon), as well as something on the order of 25000 gp worth of diamonds.

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

This isn't true. The Blood Oath doesn't specify anything about eldest descendants, just descendants, it passes on to all of them.



But it doesn't prevent her soul from getting into Celestia, it prevents her soul from getting to an afterlife ("my soul will not rest")

I wonder about that. After all, Roy's little brother was unaffected by the Blood Oath. This may be because he was a child, but we have no proof of that.

And at the very least the positive side of the Blood Oath's magic, getting advice and poorly worded predictions from your ancestor, doesn't work for the youngest. If that half of the oath doesn't work I think one could assume the negative half doesn't either.

It might be true it effects all adult children equally, though one would then have to ask what the oath would consider an adult, perhaps when you earn your first class level. I would personally lean towards no, however.

[Nathan The Lame]

I hate to break it to the forum, but not every minor character will have a part to play throughout the entire plot. Julia served her purpose, and now that she can no longer contribute to the plot, is never coming back, maybe to congratulate Roy on killing Xyklon at the end, but that's it.

Anyone remember how the pig-man that got his hand cut off by Obi-Wan in the Star Wars Cantina swore revenge on Obi-Wan and Luke and reappeared later in Episode V? Right, because a good storyteller doesn't bring back minor characters into the plot when it's completely unnecessary.

Yes, the Giant did bring back ADB, but that's because he likes to subvert tropes and it was interesting because no-one expected it. Now, half the forum seems to think that every minor character from Hilga to the thieves at the inn are going to return in some way. If the giant is a good writer, he probably won't overuse a difficult to pull off anti-trope, because then it will become repetitive and annoying.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just sick of all these "Will X Come Back?" threads.

[FujinAkari]

I wonder about that. After all, Roy's little brother was unaffected by the Blood Oath. This may be because he was a child, but we have no proof of that.

Well, it is more than likely because he was unaware of the blood oath. You aren't penalized for failing to fulfill an oath you weren't ever informed of :)

n the Star Wars Cantina swore revenge on Obi-Wan and Luke and reappeared later in Episode V? Right, because a good storyteller doesn't bring back minor characters into the plot when it's completely unnecessary.

Wait... what? Did you seriously just call George Lucas a good storyteller?

I mean... compared to M. Night Shyamalan or Uwe Boll... ok... but in general?

[Blisstake]

EDIT- speaking of which, wow, Shojo's best Wizard must have been awesome. He'd be what, 18th level? They really should have resurrected him already to help the resistance.

It's also possible The Giant forgot that teleport has a limited number of people that can go with you... I certainly forget about that limitation all the time.

Just curious, but where are you getting the Duskblade idea from? Julia and V are both Wizards.

It was a very silly joke. I think you're looking into it too much.

[SoC175]

But it doesn't prevent her soul from getting into Celestia, it prevents her soul from getting to an afterlife ("my soul will not rest")

Well, if it's a non-lawful afterlife they might simply not care if she says "well yeah, I swore this once, but I think I will just break my word"

[Nathan The Lame]

Wait... what? Did you seriously just call George Lucas a good storyteller?

I mean... compared to M. Night Shyamalan or Uwe Boll... ok... but in general?

Haha, yes, I'm sorry for calling Lucas a good storyteller. BUT, the original star wars trilogy WAS good. The story that was told was good, that's why I'm using it as an example.

EDIT: And I actually liked most of M. Night's movies (haven't seen Devil though and Happening sucked badly). Not gonna defend Mr. Boll though....

[The Pilgrim]

But it doesn't prevent her soul from getting into Celestia, it prevents her soul from getting to an afterlife ("my soul will not rest")

Roy DID get accepted into his afterlife, without having to fulfill the Blood Oath. Which means that the Blood Oath, per se, doesn't stop you from being accepted into an afterlife.

It's the guy (or girl, in Roy's case) guarding the entrance which can use the Oath as grounds to keep you out. Roy would have been rejected from Celestia if he had refused to adress the Blood Oath - for the very act of refusing responsibility, not for the Oath per se -, but I doubt any judge from a non-lawful(ish) afterlife would care about it.

In fact, "I totally failed to give a **** about a Blood Oath some ancestor of mine swore while drunk" would equal to being received as a Hero in any chaotic afterlife.

[FujinAkari]

Roy DID get accepted into his afterlife, without having to fulfill the Blood Oath. Which means that the Blood Oath, per se, doesn't stop you from being accepted into an afterlife.

Yes, but Roy died trying to fulfill it, the express words imply it WOULD HAVE kept him out otherwise.

[QUOTE]It's the guy (or girl, in Roy's case) guarding the entrance which can use the Oath as grounds to keep you out. Roy would have been rejected from Celestia if he had refused to adress the Blood Oath - for the very act of refusing responsibility, not for the Oath per se -, but I doubt any judge from a non-lawful(ish) afterlife would care about it.

In fact, "I totally failed to give a **** about a Blood Oath some ancestor of mine swore while drunk" would equal to being received as a Hero in any chaotic afterlife.

See, I don't read it that way. It is a magical pact with the heavens that your soul will not rest until something is done. While obviously the Deva/whatever can override it, I don't get the impression that it is a holy oath sworn with the heavens that only affects 1 out of 3 people.

[BlackestOfMages]

See, I don't read it that way. It is a magical pact with the heavens that your soul will not rest until something is done. While obviously the Deva/whatever can override it, I don't get the impression that it is a holy oath sworn with the heavens that only affects 1 out of 3 people.

true, and it probably would be that binding for a lawful afterlife, but as chaotic is about personal freedom and choice, they'd be being major ***** if they said 'sorry, some deal your father made before you where born and you had no influence over says you can't come in'. aame with neutral probably, since both of them don't hold the child responsable for everything the parent does

but yeah, she may show up in a joke, but I highly doubt she's still in the storyline...

[The Pilgrim]

Yes, but Roy died trying to fulfill it, the express words imply it WOULD HAVE kept him out otherwise.

(...)

See, I don't read it that way. It is a magical pact with the heavens that your soul will not rest until something is done. While obviously the Deva/whatever can override it, I don't get the impression that it is a holy oath sworn with the heavens that only affects 1 out of 3 people.

Well, the "express words" of the Oath are:

Spoiler

Show

I, Eugene Greenhilt, swear on the blood that flows from my wounds that I shall not rest, in this life or any other, until I or my heirs have enacted horrible vengeance on those that have slighted me, named here as Xykon the Sorcerer.

There is nothing there that implies that you only have to try to fulfill the Oath in order to get your afterlife.

Plus, he made no pact with no heaven, he just got a tatto from a Halfling with a funny accent.

When the Deva explained Eugene why Roy got access to the afterlife while the old man was being held outside (here), the reason was because Eugene "made a conscious decision to abandon your own Oath" and never looked back. And when Eugene was to die, he burdened his son with the Oath "rather than take even one last chance at fulfilling it". While Roy "did everything he could to fulfill the vow you dumped at his feet". Wandering the clouds until any of his heirs fulfilled the Oath, was Eugene's punishment for this.

Now, the important thing to notice here, is that the Celestials are punishing a moral actitude. They never said they where compelled to keep Eugene out of Celestia due to the magic of the Oath. Neither claimed that Eugene had made an Oath with them in the first place. They were punishing Eugene because he acted against the LG moral code.

Other, non-lawful afterlifes? Probably wouldn't care a damn about it. Specially since the text of the original Oath in no place charges his heirs with eternal damnation if they failed to fulfill it.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think she will definitely return, but I'm not sure if it'll be for more than 1 strip after the climax.

[Steward]

Other, non-lawful afterlifes? Probably wouldn't care a damn about it. Specially since the text of the original Oath in no place charges his heirs with eternal damnation if they failed to fulfill it.

I agree. I don't even think a Lawful afterlife would have punished Julia for it if she had died before Xykon's destruction. It just seems way too harsh and the oath doesn't seem to require it.

[Red XIV]

EDIT- speaking of which, wow, Shojo's best Wizard must have been awesome. He'd be what, 18th level? They really should have resurrected him already to help the resistance.

The resistance doesn't have any clerics of high enough level to cast Resurrection. Hell, they don't even have any clerics of higher than 4th level.

Though I suppose the elves probably brought in a few decent-level clerics, because infiltrating deep inside enemy territory without them would be really dumb. But given that they don't have his remains on hand, they'd need True Resurrection anyway.

[KillianHawkeye]

It was a very silly joke. I think you're looking into it too much.

There's a lot on this forum that's silly. That doesn't mean I can't inquire about something that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me.