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Thread: D&D economics
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2008-08-05, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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D&D economics
Prtobably is old stuff but I thought it was worth mentioning
Trollman's Turnip Economy
A IMHO very interesting article about economy in a D&D world.
enjoy.I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2008-08-06, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
That's only a single copypasted part of Keith and Frank's "Dungeonomicon", a homebrew which tried to make sense of the D&D world as presented by the RAW.
IMO the Dungeonomicon, along with the other works in the same series, is DM Gold.
A PDF of the complete Keith & Frank Tome series is here.
v-- re: potatoes as staple crop. Sure, right up until the Orcish potato famine...Last edited by bosssmiley; 2008-08-06 at 05:53 AM.
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2008-08-06, 05:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Very good read. I particularly liked the bit with the different calorie counts. A question: I've heard that potatoes give a much higher yield than traditional European crops; would a D&D world using potatoes as the main crop be, in general, better fed for the same amount of work?
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2008-08-06, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
turnips, me lord?
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2008-08-06, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2008-08-06, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
I've read this one before, but I forgot how funny it was. :)
Let's say that you don't want to exchange goods and services for other goods and services at all. Well, it's medieval times baby, there's totally another option. See, if you kill people by stabbing them in the face when they want to be paid for things, you don't have to pay for things. Indeed, if you have a big enough pack of gnolls at your back, you don't have to pay anything to anyone except your own personal posse of gnolls.I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2008-08-06, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
So what would be the best Joe and Jane Farmer could eat, assuming selection from all available crops (that grow in the same climate)?
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2008-08-06, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Well, I've heard theories that the main reason that Prussia was able to become a Power was the introduction of the potatoes from america, I don't know how much they are valid but it is certainly an interesting "what-if" :).
I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2008-08-06, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
A single large potato (370 grams) has 284 calories. 390 grams of turnips has a calorie count of 108.
Wheat is better than potato's but it requires a lot more effort to grow.
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2008-08-06, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2008-08-06, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Calorie wise wheat is 214 calories in 108 grams. Or over 3 times more calories per gram than potatoes.
But until modern farming came along it was a lot harder to grow wheat.
Total time required to grow potatoes (assuming you have an irrigation system) is maybe 24 hours. Here's a link, it's not difficult.
Growing wheat is a lot more difficult.
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2008-08-06, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
I write a gaming blog. It also hosts my gaming downloads:
Fatescape - FATE-based D&D emulator, for when you want D&D flavour but not D&D complexity.
Exalted Mass Combat Rules - Because the ones in the core book suck.
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2008-08-06, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
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2008-08-06, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Thanks for the link.
I agree on this material being DM gold, I expecially like the part where he talk of the gold=power equation in D&D and how this end with hurting the game. in previous edition building castles and fortress or becoming politically influential were a large part of what D&D was, with today edition is not impossible but is certainly harder, because to build a castle or playing politics would need a lot of gold, and players would rather use that gold to buy their next magic item than to build a fortress, and how many times the PCs, the heroes of the land, live as beggars to save money to buy that new worpal blade or something similiar?I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2008-08-06, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
As opposed to what? I bet that if you live only on rice that you'd miss out on important stuff too.
Besides that, if you consider how potatoes were introduced in Europe(they were fairly wild in America I think) than they can't be to harmful, I find it hard to believe people back then already accounted for possible toxicity in their products when breeding them.
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2008-08-06, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Potatoes are in the same family as belladonna (deadly nightshade) - the berries that come from a potato plant are actually pretty toxic. Humans survive on toxic plants all the time though, as cooking typically eliminates many toxins (including the toxins in potatoes). Soaking some foods, washing them repeatedly can also leech the toxins out (the toxic cycads eaten by some pacific islanders as an example).
Last edited by Epinephrine; 2008-08-06 at 08:22 AM.
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2008-08-06, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-08-06, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
If you find potatoes which have a green tinge about their skins then DO NOT eat them, wild or otherwise.
http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/potato.asp
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2008-08-06, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
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2008-08-06, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
I eat potatos all the time. Granted, never raw, only cooked, so the toxins are probably gone.
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2008-08-06, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
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2008-08-06, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-08-06, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
None of the Irish peasants could have afforded 4.5 pounds of potatoes in one sitting. However, you have to wonder about the effects of small doses of toxin over time as part of a regular diet, though. Perhaps one develops an immunity, like with alcohol, rather than a buildup of poison in the bloodstream.
Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2008-08-06 at 11:34 AM.
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2008-08-06, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-08-06, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
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Homebrews:
Originally Posted by ExHunterEmerald
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2008-08-06, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
They were too busy being killed by the English.
In all seriousness, though, no. Not enough potato at a time.
^ The British (as I understand it) usually didn't take the potato crop. The potato was the peasantry staple. The other crops were almost all taken by the British to pay for outrageous rent and taxes. In fact, the potato famine was not a famine at all.There was plenty of food, but it all went to the English.
The reason the potato is a better crop than wheat in some European countries is this: You burn down a feild of wheat, it's gone. To kill off all the potatoes, you have to dig up every last one of the potatoes and then get rid of them. They're a hardier plant that way. It's easier to recover a potato patch from a war.
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2008-08-06, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Some of the potatoes went to the British too. You're right though that the famine was not due to crop failure by and large. There was less produced those years due to a potato blight, but despite the blight there would have been enough food to feed the peasantry had the British not taken the same or slightly higher proportion of crops those years as well. Patrick Kavanaugh has a readable and quite good book on the subject.
/derailment[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-08-06, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
Giantitp: The only place you can turn a discussion on D&D Economics into an arguement about toxic potatoes.
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2008-08-06, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
The other reason is that if your army is marching through the countryside stealing food from the peasants (in other words, "foraging,"), potatoes are harder to steal. Usually, an army is more likely to steal food than to simply destroy it- burning a wheatfield can take more effort than it sounds like, except under drought conditions. And soldiers have to eat too, so they're often just trying to take your food rather than bring up their own.
With potatoes, you can leave them in the ground and dig them out when you need them. Which means that if an army is marching past your farm and decides to "requisition" your potatoes, they either have to dig them up themselves or sit around while you dig them up. Either way, it takes a long time.
Whereas if you make a living by growing grain, you have to have stored grain in a silo on hand to eat. Which means that an army, friendly or otherwise, can get some quick food by taking your grain and leaving you with nothing to eat. Since potatoes can't be stolen so easily for the same reason they can't be destroyed so easily, the peasants are more likely to have food available after the army marches past.
It's not just the vulnerability of the crops to destruction. It's the vulnerability of the harvest to theft, too. And since potatoes can be harvested on the spot instead of all at once, they're a lot less vulnerable that way.
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2008-08-06, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D economics
I think my PC's strong-hold will probably grow lots of potatos then