Arena Tournament, Round 47: Aramail vs. No

[Bayar]

Monster Manual V/
Anyway now that we are out in the open, Bayar you are immoblized, adn cannot move unless you beat my strength check. LAso you will have to make a DC 15 concentration check to cast ANY spell, and consdiering ithe harpoon chain is lashed to my shield, I will pull out one of my other harpoons, which there are THREE of BTW, and attempt to spear Bayar again.
attack check, against your immoblized AC.
[roll0]
if crit
[roll1]
damage
[roll2]
damage if crit.
[roll3]

Hold on dude, my questions havent been answered. you may not even be able to attack while swimming...

[AlterForm]

Motherfukcing PHB doesnt say what happens when you are swimming

Exactly. I can't find anything that says you can't attack while swimming. Feel to see if you can dig anything up.

[Fan]

Exactly. I can't find anything that says you can't attack while swimming. Feel to see if you can dig anything up.

Doesn't matter anyways I'm only in Shallow water this turn if I read the map correctly.

[Bayar]

Exactly. I can't find anything that says you can't attack while swimming. Feel to see if you can dig anything up.

Hang on, gonna ask in another thread...

[AlterForm]

Initiative went to Aramail.

Aramail Turn 1: Post 4; redone in Post 10
Aramail Turn 2: Post 16
Aramail Turn 3: Post 21; redone in Post 32
Aramail Turn 4: Post 41
Aramail Turn 5: Post 46
Aramail Turn 6: Post 51 (At this point he was at O6, in deep water in the 7-10 ft region, as per the arena map)
Current Initiative Position: Resolving Aramail's round in Turn 6.

[Fan]

Okay approxamently how deep is it?
Cause I make my chars ridculously tall, I think this ones 7"2

[Bayar]

Omm...O6, and I am in K14. Besides the swimming and attacking conflict, wasnt there a range increment of 30 FT for your weapon ? Something in the lines...oh, I dunno..."Shorter distance than actual distance between the 2 opponents? "

Okay approxamently how deep is it?
Cause I make my chars ridculously tall, I think this ones 7"2

As per the map rules, it requires a swim check regardless of size...

[Fan]

((PSST Bayar its only a -2 range increment penealty for that distance.))

[Bayar]

((PSST Bayar its only a -2 range increment penealty for that distance.))

((PSST FF fanboy I have cover against you.))

[AlterForm]

Just so we're clear...

I am placing this match on hold until we clear this up.

I'm currently acquiring a copy of MMV, so I'll be able to check everything once I get that. Please hold tight.
Bayar, any word on swimming yet?

[Fan]

((PSST FF fanboy I have cover against you.))

((PSST, I had cover against you, and I moved out of it to attack you, I did mention me steeping out of the cover to attack. :p)

[Bayar]

Just so we're clear...

I am placing this match on hold until we clear this up.

I'm currently acquiring a copy of MMV, so I'll be able to check everything once I get that. Please hold tight.
Bayar, any word on swimming yet?

Not yet. You can check it out too...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...=1#post4843948

((PSST, I had cover against you, and I moved out of it to attack you, I did mention me steeping out of the cover to attack. :p)

Kay' Sorry.

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I observe the water at my ankels, and decide that it would be best if I started the combat myself.

Aramail decides he will chuck the Harpoon, standing tall, and mighty he utters a mighty below as he tosses the harpoon at the smallish gnome thing.
"FREEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!"

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Attack
[roll0] ((+5 dex, +1 BAB, +1 magic weapon.))
if crit
[roll1]

damage
[roll2]
if crit damage
[roll3]
opposed strength check against the Gnome thing. ((I do believe I get +4 for being a additonal size catagory.))
[roll4]

No, you didnt.

[AlterForm]

Re: Cover

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

Because of the phrasing of the section for determining melee cover, I conclude that you choose the most beneficial corner of your square for determining ranged cover.

Between the two squares when the attack launched, using Aramail's SW corner causes uninterrupted lines to all 4 of No's squares, so there was no cover for the attack.

Also, the harpoon was within 5 range increments, but greater than 1 and less than 3, so the attack took a -2 penalty becoming a 15 vs No's Touch AC.

More to come...

[Bayar]

Re: Cover



Because of the phrasing of the section for determining melee cover, I conclude that you choose the most beneficial corner of your square for determining ranged cover.

Between the two squares when the attack launched, using Aramail's SW corner causes uninterrupted lines to all 4 of No's squares, so there was no cover for the attack.

Also, the harpoon was within 5 range increments, but greater than 1 and less than 3, so the attack took a -2 penalty becoming a 15 vs No's Touch AC.

More to come...

That doesnt make sense. Yes, it is a nelee weapon, but he used it as a spear. Which is a ranged weapon.

To be used as a melee weapon at that distance, it has to be a REACH weapon. It isnt. So he used it as a ranged weapon.

[AlterForm]

That doesnt make sense. Yes, it is a nelee weapon, but he used it as a spear. Which is a ranged weapon.

To be used as a melee weapon at that distance, it has to be a REACH weapon. It isnt. So he used it as a ranged weapon.

Sorry; wasn't clear. Let me try again:

Ranged says "pick a corner, check for cover"

Melee says "check all corners, check for cover"

If ranged cover wanted you to choose the least beneficial corner to check for cover, it would simply have you check all of them like melee cover checks. However, it calls for only 1 corner, leading me to believe that you get to choose your most beneficial corner to check for cover.

Oui?

[Bayar]

Sorry; wasn't clear. Let me try again:

Ranged says "pick a corner, check for cover"

Melee says "check all corners, check for cover"

If ranged cover wanted you to choose the least beneficial corner to check for cover, it would simply have you check all of them like melee cover checks. However, it calls for only 1 corner, leading me to believe that you get to choose your most beneficial corner to check for cover.

Oui?

K. Sorry.

I am tired. And pissed off on the world. And right now, I feel as every {self-scrubbed} (apologise for this).
Par example:
{self-scrubbed}

Ah, forget it.

[AlterForm]

48 hours for a response to the swimming question; after that play continues as is. Also posted to Waiting Room.

Kyeudo has spoken, so we're going to stick with that.

Stil a bit to wrap up regarding Aramail's Harpoon attack...

[AlterForm]

I'm going to run this in sequential order for my sanity and clarity; we'll fill in missing bits as needed.

Aramail attempts to attack with harpoon
-No triggers readied action; fails to cast spell
Aramail attacks with harpoon (hit)
Aramail damages with harpoon (4)
No must succeed on a DC 16 reflex save (10 + 6 dmg) or be harpooned. (NOT COMPLETED)
Succeed: No further effects
Fail: No is harpooned. Moves at half speed; cannot charge/run; DC 15 concentration to cast a spell; Aramail has more options. No can remove the harpoon as a full-round action dealing 1d10 damage, with a DC 15 heal check negating said damage.

FF_Fanboy: You chain is not lashed to your shield, since the weapon description calls for it be lashed to a sticky shield, which yours is not.

PLAY CONTINUES TO NO IN ROUND 6.
Bayar, please attempt that reflex save.

[Bayar]

Shouldnt be 14? Since he gave me 4 damage ? Or am I missing something again ?

Ref save: (1d20+2)[9]

Please God. Please.

No matter. I get harpooned. I fail, I die. Game over. Delete character.

[AlterForm]

Rrgh, yeah, 14. I kept mixing up your HP and the damage you took through this whole thing.

You gonna take your turn, or are you forfeiting?

[Fan]

Okay, I know what I'm buying next round.
And good game Bayar, may i suggest making more versatile chars instead of do or die types?(just some helpful critscism.) I saw your last char Hippie, who failed simply becuase he couldn't use a skill.

[Bayar]

I was being a smartass.

K, **** this ****.

Concentration check:(1d20+4)[9]
UMD check:(1d20+17)[18]
Attack:(1d20+2)[18]
Damage:(4d6)[9]

Place your bets. How many rolls will fail ?

All of them. I stated in a previous match that the forum roller tends to assign a certain threshold of rolls to a certain poster. That leads to the poster to think that the forum roller hates him. This is why I dont trust the forum roller.



Edit2: How ****ing versatile do you want to become? The Artificier can craft a magic item that stores ANY spell. Isnt that enough versatility ? Or do you want me to just make a sonic snapper and just kill everybody ? or a ****ing orc barbarian with a 20 reach and just obliterate anyone ? HMM??? I am trying to make interesting characters ! If it was to me, I would have created 4 orc barbarian 1/fighter X or something. Or even a druid that rages his companion.

[AlterForm]

End Round 6.

Shark-Infested: 0-2 through 10-12 foot areas, and 10-15 foot area.
Shallow: 12-15 foot area.

Aramail is in O6, swimming. Don't forget a swim check if you want to move.
No is in K14, with water at his ankles.

Play continues with Aramail in Round 7.

[Fan]

REFS

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Okay in the enry I KNOW it states that the bloody thing can be lashed to an apprpriate surface, I know this is a bit of a strecth, but are there ANY surfaces to which I cold lash it to, such as a particularly nasty rock outcropping?

Edit: Bayar calm down dude, I was refering to maybe making a char that didn't rely to heavily on the rolls they got. Sorry.

[AlterForm]

FF_Fanboy

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KUO-TOAN HARPOON
The kuo-toan harpoon is an exotic melee weapon that has the
following characteristics.
Range
Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Incr. Wt. Type
15 gp 1d8 1d10 ×2 30 ft. 6 lb. Piercing
A kuo-toan harpoon is a spear that has a barbed metal head. A
slender, 30-foot-long chain runs from the harpoon’s end.
If a kuo-toan harpoon deals damage, the target must succeed
on a Reflex save (DC 10 + the damage dealt) or be harpooned. A
harpooned creature moves at half speed, cannot charge or run,
and must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast a spell. On
a failed check, it loses the spell.
If a kuo-toa harpooner holds onto the chain, the harpooned
creature must make an opposed Strength check to move more
then 30 feet away from the harpooner. As a swift action, the har-
pooner can wrap his end of the chain around his sticky shield.
In this case, he gains a +5 bonus on the opposed Strength
check. As a standard action, the harpooner can slam his shield
to the ground to seal it in place with the chain still attached.
If the harpooner does so, the harpooned creature is lashed to
within 30 feet of the spot the shield is stuck to and must suc-
ceed on a DC 20 Strength check to escape.
A harpooned creature can pull the harpoon out if it has two
hands free and takes a full-round action to do so. Removing
the harpoon in this way deals 1d10 points of damage to the
harpooned creature. A successful DC 15 Heal check allows the
removal of the harpoon without any additional damage.

I don't see anything about lashing to anything but a sticky shield.

[Bayar]

REFS

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Okay in the enry I KNOW it states that the bloody thing can be lashed to an apprpriate surface, I know this is a bit of a strecth, but are there ANY surfaces to which I cold lash it to, such as a particularly nasty rock outcropping?

Edit: Bayar calm down dude, I was refering to maybe making a char that didn't rely to heavily on the rolls they got. Sorry.

Sonic. Snapper.

[Fan]

FF_Fanboy

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I don't see anything about lashing to anything but a sticky shield.

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Sorry, I got the bloody slam your shield down mixed, it seems like I would be able to tie by chain around something though.

[AlterForm]

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Sorry, I got the bloody slam your shield down mixed, it seems like I would be able to tie by chain around something though.

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I'll pass it along to a Higher Ref, since it's an ad hoc sort of thing.

Sorry Bayar; need to figure something out with FF_Fanboy.

[Morbius]

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Sorry, I got the bloody slam your shield down mixed, it seems like I would be able to tie by chain around something though.

High Ref Morbius

What...a...mess...

FF fanboy

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Personaly I will have to say no, if you were near a tree or something else perhaps but the map description says nothing about it and I guess you don't have a "sticky shield". Also unless I am seeing something wrong your 1st attack was from more that 30 feet away, so you are likely not holding on to the chain anymore as it is only 30 feet long, that or the attack never happened and finally don't forget about the shark attack for this round

[Bayar]

In response to the swimming and attacking:

Only if you are at the surface, but the attack is not made during your move, it is made as a standard action or full round action.
Without a swim speed you would have to make your swim check to prevent you from sinking each round.

Ranged Attacks Underwater: Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range.

So yeah, you can throw it, but you have to make your swim check whenever you do. And it takes penalties to attack.