117 The Battle for Gobwin Knob 105

[Fuzzypaws]

The simplest explanation would be that the authors simply forgot to account for any units the city should be producing, rather than introducing complicated theories about supply lines, siege status, et cetera. Though it would certainly be cool to see it mentioned at some point or to see next turn, "only two rounds until the Super Ginormous Mega Unit pops, warlord!"

[Richbin]

Unit poppage is probably regulated by Tool, so announcing to the warlowrd what is coming up would not be de rigueur - he would probably have to query, and might not even have access to the answer, unless he asks his Toolship.

[SteveMB]

Considering that we only had one reference to the question of what's currently in GK's production queue, and it's buried in a whole list of other questions Parson was trying to sort out in order to come up with some way to salvage the situation, I don't expect it to be anything that will significantly affect the current battle.

[Richbin]

I would rather concur with that assesment - the Sword, though, is not part of regular popping procedures, and probably has something to do with the spell and high maintenance costs. Although there is almost no way to know for sure as they did not buy the service package.
Darned those extra 150,000 shmuckers might have been well spent right there :)

[Occasional Sage]

To be fair, I didn't go back and check who it was the other times. If it wasn't you, sorry. Mea culpa. I tried to make it read like a polite request and not an annoyed demand, but I quite possibly failed utterly.

Zero stress

Supply lines may be a factor in Erfworld, but I don't think we've ever been shown a situation in which a unit(s) has been cut off from supply.

Actually, we have. Check out the last panel.

Parson doesn't seem to have even made an inquery into the nature of supply and supply lines. But that could be because he doesn't consider his forces sufficient/capable of cutting supply and is more focused on the immediate need of reducing Ansom's siege capability and defending GK's walls, and so for him it's not even a question at the moment.

My guess is that if he DID make the inquiry (the info seems to be readily known and available) he'd find that basic supplies require being in your own territory (food doesn't pop if you're away from home for instance) but things like upkeep cost, which are more abstract, just get taken out of the faction's purse.

[SteveMB]

Actually, we have. Check out the last panel.

I think that's basically a "munchies" joke... but OTOH it does seem that Sizemore's rations didn't pop even though their side's turn has begun.

[fendrin]

Actually, we have. Check out the last panel.

Um, I think he just had a case of the munchies.

My guess is that if he DID make the inquiry (the info seems to be readily known and available) he'd find that basic supplies require being in your own territory (food doesn't pop if you're away from home for instance) but things like upkeep cost, which are more abstract, just get taken out of the faction's purse.

That would mean that supply lines would be necessary (because an army in enemy territory can't forage enough to sustain itself), which would make attacking supply lines a feasible (and probably very effective) strategy. Parson would know that, and would have included it in his Strategery brainstorming.

[teratorn]

That would mean that supply lines would be necessary (because an army in enemy territory can't forage enough to sustain itself), which would make attacking supply lines a feasible (and probably very effective) strategy. Parson would know that, and would have included it in his Strategery brainstorming.

If units can heal at the start of turn, even when far from their city, I don't see why they can't be nourished also. If you have money food pops where you need it.

The dwagons in the donut of doom had been one turn out of GK when they attacked the siege, spent a turn there, and would have made another turn. Unless they eat the trees, the most likely is that they were automagically fed.

[Occasional Sage]

If units can heal at the start of turn, even when far from their city, I don't see why they can't be nourished also. If you have money food pops where you need it.

The dwagons in the donut of doom had been one turn out of GK when they attacked the siege, spent a turn there, and would have made another turn. Unless they eat the trees, the most likely is that they were automagically fed.

A fine point (also fendrin's comment on the Strategery Klog). To bolster my argument, though, it doesn't look like Jillian got fed at the start of the turn (although she healed; is that a sign of partial allegiance?). I'd say that her food simply isn't in panel, but when Wanda passes across her sushi it's right in front of Jillian, where her food ought to be if she were automagically fed (also a very nice term, teratorn!).

There might be something we're missing here; ya'll's comments about supply lines make too much sense, but the evidence I see contradicts that. Thoughts?

[fendrin]

A fine point (also fendrin's comment on the Strategery Klog). To bolster my argument, though, it doesn't look like Jillian got fed at the start of the turn (although she healed; is that a sign of partial allegiance?). I'd say that her food simply isn't in panel, but when Wanda passes across her sushi it's right in front of Jillian, where her food ought to be if she were automagically fed (also a very nice term, teratorn!).

There might be something we're missing here; ya'll's comments about supply lines make too much sense, but the evidence I see contradicts that. Thoughts?

Panel 5 on that page shows a tea kettle and a bowl of something on the table in addition to Wanda's sushi. The bowl looks like it might have gruel or other similar bland & cheap prison food.

I also have a theory about Sizemore's rations in the Magic Kingdom. It may be that units who go there are technically considered prisoners (even though they could 'escape' whenever they wanted to), and thus are fed/healed by the Magic Kingdom's treasury. That would be part of the service fee for those spending time there, I presume.

EDIT: Hey, I also noticed that Wanda's not wearing the same clothes as when we first see her with Jillian...

[Occasional Sage]

Panel 5 on that page shows a tea kettle and a bowl of something on the table in addition to Wanda's sushi. The bowl looks like it might have gruel or other similar bland & cheap prison food.

The positioning looks more like Wanda's than Jillian's. I'd guess a nice bowl of miso soup.

I also have a theory about Sizemore's rations in the Magic Kingdom. It may be that units who go there are technically considered prisoners (even though they could 'escape' whenever they wanted to), and thus are fed/healed by the Magic Kingdom's treasury. That would be part of the service fee for those spending time there, I presume.

Perhaps guests are upkept by their hosts in the same manner as prisoners, without the restriction on their movement?

ETA: ooo, imagine the metatactics of negotiations: "How expensive a unit can I risk, to stick the enemy with its upkeep cost?"

Oh and Fendrin: note here that Wanda is still in the skimpy white outfit, after the torture session ends. However, she's in the new outfit even before upkeep happens at the start of the turn. Must be a manual change, like when she changed for her session originally.

[fendrin]

The positioning looks more like Wanda's than Jillian's. I'd guess a nice bowl of miso soup.

Could be. I honestly can't tell what's in the bowl or whose side of the table it's on... it looks to be about smack dab in the center, actually.

Perhaps guests are upkept by their hosts in the same manner as prisoners, without the restriction on their movement?

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. I guess the distinction between 'guest' and 'prisoner' could be immaterial to the underlying rules of Erfworld.

[SteveMB]

Could be. I honestly can't tell what's in the bowl or whose side of the table it's on... it looks to be about smack dab in the center, actually.

Also, remember Stanley's "Guess who can't get enough of our dungeon slop?" comment.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. I guess the distinction between 'guest' and 'prisoner' could be immaterial to the underlying rules of Erfworld.

[Dave Rapp]

Considering that we only had one reference to the question of what's currently in GK's production queue, and it's buried in a whole list of other questions Parson was trying to sort out in order to come up with some way to salvage the situation, I don't expect it to be anything that will significantly affect the current battle.

Which is exactly why it will be anything that will significantly affect the current battle. For all we know GK is some kind of special case where special stuff can be made, (like the sword?) and even though it's really important, nobody bothered to mention it because it's taken for granted. Like the link thing with the three casters. The most important stuff is the stuff that seems the least important, especially in asymmetric warfare.

[Occasional Sage]

Which is exactly why it will be anything that will significantly affect the current battle. For all we know GK is some kind of special case where special stuff can be made, (like the sword?) and even though it's really important, nobody bothered to mention it because it's taken for granted. Like the link thing with the three casters. The most important stuff is the stuff that seems the least important, especially in asymmetric warfare.

I'd expect more of a reference from these authors. This isn't much of a gun.

Usually it *is* the small and overlooked stuff, but this one is really obscure.

[Dave Rapp]

I'd expect more of a reference from these authors. This isn't much of a gun.

Usually it *is* the small and overlooked stuff, but this one is really obscure.

Doesn't mean they can't de-obscure it somewhat by bringing it up again. Could be that this reference was just so they can say later "we didn't pull this out of our ass, we mentioned it there before."

[Occasional Sage]

Doesn't mean they can't de-obscure it somewhat by bringing it up again. Could be that this reference was just so they can say later "we didn't pull this out of our ass, we mentioned it there before."

Sure. I meant that in order for this to be the fix without coming across as a dem, another (oblique?) reference will be necessary.

Unless the fight is delayed some more, though, we're a little too close to the Big Reveal to get away with a solution this slightly mentioned.

[Aquillion]

Doesn't mean they can't de-obscure it somewhat by bringing it up again. Could be that this reference was just so they can say later "we didn't pull this out of our ass, we mentioned it there before."

I just wouldn't get my hopes up on it being a big deal if I were you. Maybe "oh, another twoll, that will help..."

At the absolute maximum (and this is definitely pushing things) it might be a dwagon, though it's kind of hard to justify that without the Arkenhammer there (and isn't it needed to tame them, anyway? They wouldn't be able to give it orders without it.)

Anything else is getting into epileptic trees territory in terms of silliness. If Gobwin Knob could pop something amazing, don't you think they'd have done it already? Or mentioned it at some point in their desperate strategy sessions? They were scraping absolute rock-bottom when they summoned Parson; having some other ace up their sleeve wouldn't make any sense.

[ishnar]

I think that's basically a "munchies" joke... but OTOH it does seem that Sizemore's rations didn't pop even though their side's turn has begun.

hhrm, Actually, that link brings up another issue. How much is a Rand? That is the only reference to it I remember, everywhere else refers to Smuckers.

OOOOO

What about an invasion through portal park? Or a counter-invasion.

[Chronicled]

If Parson does get the Arkenpliers, I wouldn't be surprised if the Tool does a 180 (possibly, right before he'd hit the ambush group) and returns to GK to get his hands on them. Depending on the timing, it could be that Call the Cavalry moment Parson's hoping for. It'd be rather funny if all of Parson's great planning and manipulation was ignored and Stanley's last minute return bags all the glory.

[fendrin]

hhrm, Actually, that link brings up another issue. How much is a Rand? That is the only reference to it I remember, everywhere else refers to Smuckers.

I figured 'Rand' was probably the proper name and 'Shmuckers' was slang. Maybe it's the other 'round, though. Kind of like 'Dollars' and 'Bucks' here in the US or 'Pounds' and 'Quid' in England.

[Aquillion]

If Parson does get the Arkenpliers, I wouldn't be surprised if the Tool does a 180 (possibly, right before he'd hit the ambush group) and returns to GK to get his hands on them. Depending on the timing, it could be that Call the Cavalry moment Parson's hoping for. It'd be rather funny if all of Parson's great planning and manipulation was ignored and Stanley's last minute return bags all the glory.

Reminds me of a scene from a certain series of fantasy novels. (I won't mention it because giving the name would be a spoiler! But anyone who read it probably knows what I'm talking about.)

[Fuzzypaws]

I figured 'Rand' was probably the proper name and 'Shmuckers' was slang. Maybe it's the other 'round, though. Kind of like 'Dollars' and 'Bucks' here in the US or 'Pounds' and 'Quid' in England.

More likely that it's some kind of reference. Ayn Rand, perhaps?

[fendrin]

More likely that it's some kind of reference. Ayn Rand, perhaps?

Could be both. It probably is a reference to something, but given the context it is almost certainly a unit of currency. In fact, I just discovered that rand is a unit of South African currency.

[hiigaran]

two quick theories

First regarding the unit being built in GW, because the mines below BG have been "mined out" and their faction no longer controls any other cities isn't it possible that the city no longer produces income and they aren't producing a unit so that they could pay for there unit upkeeps as long as possible (seeing as Stanley was kind of planning on a long siege initially).

Two It might be that while paying upkeep for units outside of a city (your standing army so to speak) that upkeep would simply cost more and thats why they didn't want to pop food in the magic kingdom? There are a couple of games out there where you active troops require alot of maintenance to keep up so just a thought :P

/done speculating

edit for a spelling error >.<

[Laurentio II]

First regarding the unit being built in GW, because the mines below BG have been "mined out" and their faction no longer controls any other cities isn't it possible that the city no longer produces income and they aren't producing a unit so that they could pay for there unit upkeeps as long as possible (seeing as Stanley was kind of planning on a long siege initially).

We know that Stanley still have 200'000 Shmuckers left, that is the difference between having the Summon spell cast from experts, and have it cast by Wanda.
As the higher upkeep is Parson's (and it's only over a thousand a turn) and lower troops usually have an upkeep that is ridiculously lower than specials ones, it's highly improbable that they have monetary shortage.
Parson have the means (Maggie) to ask Stanley to poop some heavy unit, or even a stack of archers. If it's feasible, we should consider it done.

[hiigaran]

i suppose so I'm thinking though the other part may be that Stanley may have taken most of that with him to make his new side with (also i think the dwagons may have large upkeeps as well)

[SteveMB]

i suppose so I'm thinking though the other part may be that Stanley may have taken most of that with him to make his new side with (also i think the dwagons may have large upkeeps as well)

He can't take the treasury with him. Perhaps he was able to take a small amount to maintain his force until he starts a new side, or perhaps he is still maintained by the Plaid treasury as long as GK stands (and he needs to get where he's going before then).

[Gamebird]

I just wouldn't get my hopes up on it being a big deal if I were you. Maybe "oh, another twoll, that will help..."

At the absolute maximum (and this is definitely pushing things) it might be a dwagon, though it's kind of hard to justify that without the Arkenhammer there (and isn't it needed to tame them, anyway? They wouldn't be able to give it orders without it.)

I'm not getting my hopes up, but I *am* curious. As for the dwagon, it could be. The hammer allows people to "tame" dwagons, which might mean as you have interpreted that no one can command a dwagon unit without being attuned to the hammer. Or maybe it means that the hammer-weilder can attempt to turn any dwagon unit he encounters, even if that unit is under the control of other side. I had taken the latter interpretation, which would mean that if Gobwin Knob is allowed to pop dwagons, and they did pop a dwagon, then it would be under the control of Stanley (or his designate, Parson). In a previous strip, Parson ordered the dwagons off to an attack without Stanley's knowledge or participation. Admittedly they had uncroaked warlords riding them, but I can't see how that makes a difference.

Currency:
I think the unit of currency varies by kingdom. For Stanley's, it's Schmuckers. For the Magic Kingdom, it's the Rand (a pun off Ayn Rand, famous philosopher-gal). And probably not coincidentally a real-world unit of currency.

Parson have the means (Maggie) to ask Stanley to poop some heavy unit, or even a stack of archers.

OMG! Pooping a stack of archers sounds painful!

[Richbin]

I think it was SteveMB who mentionned that unit popping whould/will be trivial in the resolution of the story, and I rather agree.
The situation will be resolved with the elements already in play.
We are expecting the last piece of the sword. Ok, great.
All the pieces are in play. Fantastic.
We have no idea what is/has been happenning with Stanely since 8 strips ago we saw him bedding down for the night.
Next to move are Transylvito and Jillian. He/they has to wait in ambush or go hunt.

I suspect Jillian, being the barbarian princess she is (go Zona), is going to ignore the chicky reference, and go after Stanley herself. She will realize he is heading back to GK, or that he as no plans to go to GAQ (still clinging to9 the Charley being attacked theory, unless Charley is the one that took over one of FAQ's three cities)