[PrC] Demonhunter

[Morty]

This PrC is now officially finished thanks to the suggestions from people in this thread and help from Fax_Celestis.

Demonhunter

Demonhunters are the order of skilled, agile warriors trained and dedicated to hunting down and killing outsiders of all types- but in fact they're killing mostly demons and devils, as they're most dangerous for society. At the beginning, demonhunters mere meant to be as an order of noble warriors protecting people from demonic danger, but now the're mostly just ruthless mercaneries, killing both evil and good outsiders for money. Basically, warrior becomes Demonhunter by discipline, training and drinking a special elixir from outsiders blood- it doesn't matter what type of outsider it was. Training and outsider's blood make them powerful, but it kills most of higher emotions of demonunter- though there're exceptions. Demonhunter are feared by common people, but everyone appreciates their skills in dealing with outsiders and other monsters. Demonhunters are usually fighters, rangers or warblades, and in most cases humans- elven or dwarven demonhunters appear from time to time, but that's all.
Requirements:
Alignment: any Neutral
BAB: +6
Skills: Knowledge (Planes) 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks
Feats:
Special: Must drink special elixir made of outsider's blood, made by skilled alchemist.

Class skills: Climb, Concentration, Heal, Jump, Knowledge (Planes), Survival, Tumble
Skill Points at each level:4 + Int modifier
Hit die: d8


DEMONHUNTER
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

| Outsider blood, Favored Enemy +2, Track

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+3

| Emotionless, Blood Surge

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

| Smite Outsider 1 time/day

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

| Shield Mind, Improved Blood Surge

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

| Stronger Outsider Blood, Favored Enemy +4

6th|

+6

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

| Smite Outsider 2 times/day, Bane Weapon

7th|

+7

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

| Dimensional Anchor, Superior Blood Surge

8th|

+8

|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

| Banishing Strike

9th|

+9

|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

| Dimension Door 1/day,

10th|

+10

|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

| Superior Outsider Blood, Freedom Of Movement 1/day, Favored Enemy +6 [/table]

Outsider Blood: Demonhunters drink an elixir from outsider's blood, which gives Darkvision 30 ft. and ability to detect outsider 3 times/day. If character have had Darkvision before, he doesn't gain 30 ft. Darkvision, but instead his Darkvision is lenghtened by 10 ft.
Stronger Outsider Blood: As the Demonhunter's outsider's blood becomes stronger, he gets True Seeing 2 times/day and Uncanny Dodge. If character has Uncanny Dodge already, he gets Imp. Uncanny Dodge.
Superior Outsider Blood: Demonhunters are never fully humans(or whatever race they belong to), but most powerful Demonhunters are only partially humanoids, as outsider's blood grows stronger. It futher changes treir apperance, and they're treated as native outsiders rather than humanoid in case of spells like Hold Person or Charm Person. They can't be banished though, and can still be ressurected. They still need to breathe and sleep.
Emotionless: Due to their training, discipline and blood, Demonhunters are cold-blooded and emotionless. Therefore, they get +4 bonus to saves against fear and are immune to everything that grants morale bonus or penalty.
Shield Mind: Demonhunter can make himself immune to all mind-affecting spells and effects for number of rounds equal to his class level, 2 times/day.
Banishing Strike: Using one of his Smite Outsider uses, Demonhunter may attempt to banish an outsider by succesfully hitting it with melee weapon. Otherwise, this ability works like the Dismissal spell, caster level as Demonhunter's class levels. You have to declare Banishing Strike when you attack, if you miss the use of smite is lost.
Dimensional Anchor: Two times/day, a Demonhunter may use Dimensional Anchor spell as spell-like ability.
Smite Outsider: Demonhunter can perform powerful attack against an outsider. He adds his Wisdom modifier to attack and his class levels to damage.
Favored Enemy: This ability works exactly like Ranger's Favored Enemy ability- Demonhunter has a choice between Good, Evil, Chaotic and Lawful outsiders. This ability stacks with Favored Enemy bonus, if the character has one.
Track: As dedicated hunters of the outsiders, Demonhunter gains Track feat for free. If he's already got Track feat, he recieves +4 bonus to Survival checks made when tracking.
Blood Surge: Demonhunter can use his otherworldy blood to grant himself temporary physical power. One time/day he can raise his Strenght, Dexterity or Constitution by +2 unnamed bonus.
Improved Blood Surge: As Blood Surge, but Demonhunter can raise two from three attributes
Superior Blood Surge: As Blood Surge, but all three physical attributes are raised.
Bane Weapon: Any blade wielded by Demonhunter is treated like Outsiderbane, the alignment is decided by Demonhunter. This applies to both ends of double weapon or to both weapons in case of two weapon fighting. It also applies to unarmed strikes.

[Fuum Bango]

I would think with all that Outsider blood destroying their emotions they should choose between getting Rage abilities at the cost of intelligence, Fearlessness abilities at the cost of wisdom or Charm Resistance stuff at the cost of charisma.

[Morty]

No, I don't think Rage is good idea, they're designed to be cold, disciplined killers. But flexibility is ceratinly a good thing- I'll add that in.

[Quellian-dyrae]

Myself, I don't like the standard design for "hunter" style classes (Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead, and so on). Mainly because, either they'll be half useless (if the DM doesn't include a lot of those enemy types) or blatantly superior (if they're used heavily in the campaign). That said, I like how your plan seems to involve abilities that would be useful in fighting outsiders, but that can be used on a variety of foes, rather than high combat bonuses against a limited type of creature.

As far as suggestions...I don't know if this is strictly your plan for them, but maybe center their abilities on counteracting many of the common advantages of outsiders, to even the playing field. If you went this route, you could probably get away with giving them all good saves, stick with the high attack bonus, and give them a d8 HD (so statistically they are equivalent to an outsider). That's a bit above-par for class stats, so the theory would be that it's limited by class features that don't actually strengthen the character, but that tone down its enemy's advantages. Against an outsider, it becomes a pretty fair fight. Against other foes, it depends on how much of their power is centered in the abilities you can defeat.

Things like aligning weapons wielded (could be a side effect of the outsider's blood), an attack that lowers SR and ERs for a round (demonhunter hits the outsider then all casters pummel it with spells), a dimensional anchor like you said, a permanent protection from alignment (protects against summons and mind control), etc. Maybe wings. If they're melee-oriented, they need to be able to fly to effectively fight some outsiders.

[Abjurer]

I'd suggest that when a character takes a level in Demonhunter, he choses a type of outsider to specialize in dealing with. Or just make it always Demons.
The class should grant something similar to a ranger's favored enemy, but applicable only against Demons, or the type of outsider chosen by the character. It should stack, if the character has ranger levels.

As to Quellian-dyrae's thinks, I think they're far to powerful. Giving a souped fighter that much specialization, along with wings and other methods of easy transportation would topple the campaign. Wings in themselves, while they don't seem too overpowered, allow a character to easily bypass obstacles that could have been far more challenging.

And any permanent protective spell should be carefully considered. I don't like that one.
I like the aligned weapons thing, though. I wouldn't suggest permanency, but what if a Demonhunter could, a number of times per day equal to his Demonhunter level, align his weapons?

[Morty]

Myself, I don't like the standard design for "hunter" style classes (Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead, and so on). Mainly because, either they'll be half useless (if the DM doesn't include a lot of those enemy types) or blatantly superior (if they're used heavily in the campaign). That said, I like how your plan seems to involve abilities that would be useful in fighting outsiders, but that can be used on a variety of foes, rather than high combat bonuses against a limited type of creature.

It's going to be more NPC class, and it's going to give bonuses against all outsiders, regardless of alignment.

Things like aligning weapons wielded (could be a side effect of the outsider's blood), an attack that lowers SR and ERs for a round (demonhunter hits the outsider then all casters pummel it with spells), a dimensional anchor like you said, a permanent protection from alignment (protects against summons and mind control), etc. Maybe wings. If they're melee-oriented, they need to be able to fly to effectively fight some outsiders.

I've been actually thinking about special weapon, though it wasn't about aligned weapons, but weapons crafted with a portion of outiser's blood. Special attack are good, I'll add that in. Permanent alignment protection won't work, as this PrCs is aimed against all outsiders, regardless of alignment- but It's ceratinly going to include mental protection. The last thing I'm going to add to anything is wings. For flying, I'll maybe give them spell-like ability.

I'd suggest that when a character takes a level in Demonhunter, he choses a type of outsider to specialize in dealing with. Or just make it always Demons.
The class should grant something similar to a ranger's favored enemy, but applicable only against Demons, or the type of outsider chosen by the character. It should stack, if the character has ranger levels.

I'm actually thinking about making them specialize in ceratin outsider type, but I'm not sure about that.
I actually lowered their hit die to d8 for now, I'd change that later if needed.

[Abjurer]

You could skip the spell-like abilities, and just give the prestige class a spell list: things like protection from [good/evil/law/chaos], true strike, magic circles, dimensional anchor, dimension door, and fly, and spells like hold monster and dismissal usable only against the specified outsider type.

[Morty]

Alright, I added the table and first two abilities.

You could skip the spell-like abilities, and just give the prestige class a spell list: things like protection from [good/evil/law/chaos], true strike, magic circles, dimensional anchor, dimension door, and fly, and spells like hold monster and dismissal usable only against the specified outsider type.

That's good idea, but I'm actually thinking about giving them ToB manuevers instead. That fits the flavor better, even if it doesn't match the literate inspiration.

[Abjurer]

ToB? As in the supplement Tome of Battle?

[Morty]

Yeah. I'll have to read the manuevers carefully and deicde which ones fit this PrC the best. I don't generally use ToB classes because I don't like the idea of meleers doing supernatural things, but in this case it makes sense. Of course, they'll be only additions to this PrC.

[Abjurer]

I've never read it.
So the class won't have any spells?

[Morty]

Maybe. I'll have to decide which option fits the class better.

[Abjurer]

Splendid. You do that.

You said in your first post that this prestige class would offer "some mental protection," but you gave it a lousy Will save. Might want to change that.

As far as "supernatural senses" goes, I suggest (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

[Morty]

Whoops. It's actually a typing mistake. Fixed now.

[knightsaline]

so let me get this straight, this class is all about hunting outsiders and the capstone ability is to become an outsider? so those that take all 10 levels become the hunted?

[Icewalker]

Yeah, I don't really like the capstone: become an outsider idea. A lot of their classes do it, including monks, but I have always found it, well, kind of stupid. What possible connections do monks have to outsiders? especially really well trained ones? I think they should get some outsider-ish traits due to the blood, but it shouldn't change their type.

Good idea for a class, I can see good stuff coming from this. I'm not entirely sure what youa re looking for though.

[Morty]

Well, while monks don't have much to do with outsiders, Demonhunters do- they drink their blood after all. And they doesn't become outsiders- they just cease to be fully human/elf/whatever. They can still be ressurected and can't be banished. I'll specify that. This idea comes from PrC's literary archetype, guys who were proffesional monster-killers but common people treated them as monsters and non-humans.
I've already got ideas what to give them, I'm just unsure about on which level should they get it.
EDIT: There. Changed capstone ability's name and bonuses it grants. It makes more sense now. Also, added few new abilities.

[Latronis]

Is English not your first language?

[Morty]

It's not. Why do you ask that? Are there some blatant mistakes? "Banishing Strike" is quite rough, yeah, but I can't think about better name now.

[Were-Sandwich]

Do they get big shiny hammers and long flowing coats?

[Morty]

Not by default. Actually when I was designing this PrC I was thinking of some light-armored swordsman rather than Warhammer 40k Demonhunter.

[ampcptlogic]

It's not. Why do you ask that? Are there some blatant mistakes? "Banishing Strike" is quite rough, yeah, but I can't think about better name now.

I'll try to be more constructive than that other guy.

I'll start by saying what I say to most non-native speakers who ask or apologize about their English: My wife is an English teacher/professor. I read her students' papers. Your command of the English language surpasses that of a lot of native speakers.

You've made some minor spelling errors and there are a few small problems with sentence construction and grammar, such as missing articles like 'a' and 'the'. I can't remember if Polish is a Slavic language which doesn't have articles, or not.

by succesful hit with melee weapon

It would be more clear if it read "by successfully hitting with a melee weapon"

Further down,

like Dismissal

should probably read "like the Dismissal"

[Latronis]

I meant no offence, i was just curious

Now is it inspired by something specifically or just demonhunting in general?

I don't like Banishing Strike, I'm not real fond of smite attacks in general, but i think a smite attack vs outsiders would fit better, unless it's based on something in particular. Also as is, does it just work as a dismissal spell on the attack, or does it only work on outsiders in particular?

ALso should have something along the lines of the banishing strike needs to be declared before the attack roll and if it misses it still counts towards the daily limit (or not, depending on what you want)

Some favoured enemy bonuses, wouldn't go astray

also how are you going to implement this: 'Ability to choose how exactly outsider's blood affects them'

One idea could be to give them bonus feats from lists like the fiendish codecies and the like even if they dont meet alignment requirements. These given when the blood gets more potent could fit.

I like the idea of them drinking the blood and becoming closer to the enemy personally.

[Morty]

I don't like Banishing Strike, I'm not real fond of smite attacks in general, but i think a smite attack vs outsiders would fit better, unless it's based on something in particular. Also as is, does it just work as a dismissal spell on the attack, or does it only work on outsiders in particular?

It allows Demonhuner to use Dismissal spell on the outsider he hits, and it doesn't require any additional action- you just deaclare that you attempt to dismiss outsider you hit. It works only on outsiders, and has no effect on, let's say, elementals. As for Smite Outsider... now that's nice idea, though I'd probably just add that without removing Banishing Strike.

ALso should have something along the lines of the banishing strike needs to be declared before the attack roll and if it misses it still counts towards the daily limit (or not, depending on what you want)

You're right. I'll add that to description.

Some favoured enemy bonuses, wouldn't go astray

I was thinking about that, but it's a bit too simple and obvious.

also how are you going to implement this: 'Ability to choose how exactly outsider's blood affects them'

One idea could be to give them bonus feats from lists like the fiendish codecies and the like even if they dont meet alignment requirements. These given when the blood gets more potent could fit.

The original idea was to give them abilities depending on outsider they took blood from- whether it was devil, angel, etc. I have no concrete idea what would they be, though.

[Latronis]

I was thinking about that, but it's a bit too simple and obvious.

Just at a quick glance it seems a ranger wouldn't have to much trouble getting into the class, and it'd be nice for said ranger who was dedicated to fighting outsiders could continue his advancement in combatting them via favoured enemy. Also ranger is often considered the hunter, and its the most huntery ability of the ranger excepting track.

The original idea was to give them abilities depending on outsider they took blood from- whether it was devil, angel, etc. I have no concrete idea what would they be, though.

And what i meant was, for example the Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss as Abyssal Heritor feats, and the Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells has Devil-Touched feats by drinking the infusion of outsider blood they may be able to take these feats without pesky requirements like making a pact with said fiend. There is probably similiar things in books more related to good outsiders too

Otherwise i guess you could just get a list of outsider and get the closest thing to a unique special ability they have and get that. Or perhaps not so unique i for one would love to have the Baatezu See in Darkness Supernatural ability.

[Morty]

Just at a quick glance it seems a ranger wouldn't have to much trouble getting into the class, and it'd be nice for said ranger who was dedicated to fighting outsiders could continue his advancement in combatting them via favoured enemy. Also ranger is often considered the hunter, and its the most huntery ability of the ranger excepting track.

Hm. Point. I'll think about that.

And what i meant was, for example the Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss as Abyssal Heritor feats, and the Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells has Devil-Touched feats by drinking the infusion of outsider blood they may be able to take these feats without pesky requirements like making a pact with said fiend. There is probably similiar things in books more related to good outsiders too

Unfortunaetly I don't have Fiendish Codex.

Otherwise i guess you could just get a list of outsider and get the closest thing to a unique special ability they have and get that. Or perhaps not so unique i for one would love to have the Baatezu See in Darkness Supernatural ability.

That's what I had on mind, yeah. I'll just read about every outsider in MM and pick up the most appropriate abilities.

[Latronis]

They are worth a look if you're interested in fiend related PCs or villians

That was the other thing i meant to bring upto. Is there any reason why the demonhunters can't learn to mix up their own outsider blood elixers?

[Morty]

That was the other thing i meant to bring upto. Is there any reason why the demonhunters can't learn to mix up their own outsider blood elixers?

Well, such elixir requires big skill in alchemy to make, and warriors aren't known to be skilled alchemists. Making this elixir will probably require Craf Wondrous Item or Brew Potion feat and high DC Craft(Alchemy) check. If some wizard decided to become an Demonhunter then I guess he could make his own blood elixir if he finds a recipe.

[Latronis]

That's fair enough i just think it a little odd that a character wouldn't be able to make something that is vocationally dependant :P

[Morty]

Just to clarify: Demonhunter drinks blood elixir once. He doesn't have to do it again. It's mainly for the sake of playablility- it's warrior PrC, and making poitons is generally hard if you're warrior.