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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Alright, creating a new thread since I reworked a lot of what I had originally. I also set up a web page to hold the format, since I have it in html and it's easier than hosting image files...

    So, here are links to each of my pages

    Heroic Tier
    Minion 1: Zerg Larva
    Skirmisher 2: Zerg Drone
    Soldier 4: Zergling
    Artillery 5: Hydralisk
    Skirmisher 6: Mutalisk
    Controller 7: Defiler
    Lurker 8: Lurker
    Minion 8: Hatcheryborn Zergling
    Elite Brute 9: Ultralisk
    Controller (Leader) 10: Overlord

    Paragon Tier
    Controller 11: Zerg Queen
    Minion 11: Baneling
    Skirmisher 12: Broodling
    Artillery 13: Guardian
    Soldier 14: Zergling Kin Eater
    Artillery 15: Hydralisk Blood Spiller
    Brute 16: Zergling Swarm
    Skirmisher 16: Mutalisk Drayk
    Controller 17: Defiler Unclean One
    Lurker 18: Lurker Corpse Render
    Minion 18: Lairbred Zergling
    Elite Brute 19: Ultralisk Blade Guardian
    Controller (Leader) 20: Overlord Yggdrasill
    Minion 20: Scourge

    Epic Tier
    Controller 21: Zerg Matriarch
    Minion 21: Infested Terran
    Skirmisher 22: Queenspawned Broodling
    Artillery 23: Devourer
    Soldier 24: Zergling Devouring One
    Artillery 25: Hydralisk Hunter Killer
    Brute 26: Zerg Rush
    Skirmisher 26: Mutalisk Kukulza
    Controller 27: Defiler Plague Bringer
    Lurker 28: Lurker Impaling One
    Minion 28: Hivespawned Zergling
    Solo Brute 29: Ultralisk Torrasque
    Solo Controller 29: Zerg Empress
    Controller (Leader) 29: Cerebrate
    Elite Controller (Leader) 30: Overmind
    Solo Ranger 30: Infested Kerrigan

    EDITS
    -Swapped Perception and Stealth bonuses gained via Burrow.
    -Changed Mutalisk Dive Bomb power to be encounter, charge 6.
    -Reworded certain powers to be more clear.
    -Changed duration of Defiler's Dark Swarm and made it sustain minor.
    -Modified Overlord's Spur the Hive ability
    -Changed Perception bonus via Burrow into Tremorsense based on tier.
    -Added Baneling and Queen (Broodling Disease!)

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Quote Originally Posted by daedu View Post
    Alright, creating a new thread since I reworked a lot of what I had originally. I also set up a web page to hold the format, since I have it in html and it's easier than hosting image files...

    So, here are links to each of my pages
    Cool, I'll tell you if anything is wrong with any of them.

    Heroic Tier
    Minion 1: Zerg Larva
    Resistances on a Minion are pointless (And no minion I know of has resistances)

    Skirmisher 2: Zerg Drone
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.

    Soldier 4: Zergling
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.
    Frenzy may be too strong, its hard to tell.

    Artillery 5: Hydralisk
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.

    Skirmisher 6: Mutalisk
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.

    Controller 7: Defiler
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.
    Their called Opportunity Attacks now
    Shouldn't Dark Swarm give everything concealment? (and Should just be Lasts until the end of encounter)

    Lurker 8: Lurker
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.

    Its pointless for a minion to have resistances

    Elite Brute 9: Ultralisk
    Reword Kaiser Blades to:
    +12 vs. AC; 2d8+5 damage. One creature adjacent to target takes 7 damage.
    Resistances tend to be a multiple of 5.

    Controller (Leader) 10: Overlord
    Zerg Hive Mind would be better as an Aura. Hive Mind aura 7, All zerg in aura have the same will defense as the overlord. Probably give everything the (zerg) keyword.


    Paragon Tier
    Soldier 14: Zergling Kin Eater
    Resistances again

    Minion 18: Lairbred Zergling
    Resistances again (Pointless and value)

    Epic Tier
    Resistances again

    Resistances again (Pointless and Value)


    Also, Zerglings on the whole should probably be skirmishers, since they rely on their speed and maneuverability.

    Looks very good overall.
    Last edited by Gralamin; 2008-08-20 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Neato. Any chance of Protoss or Terran showing up in these stats?
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Minions can have resistances -- I think at least one undead minion has necrotic resistance.

    The point of minions is more about "no bookkeeping" than "no rolling for damage". Resistances produce "rolling for damage" without the bookkeeping.

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Move the Ultralisk. These brutes are absolute monsters on the ground-There's a REASON the Hero one is called 'Tarrasque'-and should have an appropriate tier. It's like putting a Battlecruiser in Heroic. I mean, you're putting a Hero ZERGLING(The Devouring One) above an Ultralisk? They're good, but...

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Alright, time for some responding

    Gralamin:
    I went with the simple 5 + 1/2 level for poison and acid (although defilers get 10 + 1/2 level for poison). The alternative is 5 per tier (5/10/15) or similiar (10/15/20?)

    Prefer to keep the minions with some resistance. possibly reduced, but still some.

    The rest of those problems I'll look into/fix in a minute

    Arkanis:
    Terran are doubtful; they're only human anyway (except ghosts... possible on there)
    Protoss I may work with, much the same as how other humanoid races are handled in the MM

    Tola:
    Well, see, I'm not done yet :) I actually plotted it out by-tier. There are two more tiers worth of similar zerg, including two more ultralisks (at 18 and 28, I believe). I posted the zerglings as those I did first to see how they compared across-tiers. Then I finished out the heroic tier so somebody could use all this immediately.

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    If you're trying to stay true to the original Starcraft/Brood War, ultralisks shouldn't be able to burrow. (Although I gather that's changing in SC2...)
    Last edited by Dausuul; 2008-08-20 at 11:54 AM.
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    If you're trying to stay true to the original Starcraft/Brood War, ultralisks shouldn't be able to burrow. (Although I gather that's changing in SC2...)
    Yeah, went with the SC2 idea. I'm mixing and matching a bit here to make it work nicer. Never liked how ultralisks couldn't burrow. It made ambushes so much easier to spot

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Few things (no particular order)

    1. Ultralisk's "bloodied" ability should say it provokes opportunity attacks (cause it should)

    2. Overlords are crazy slow. I don't think they should have such a good Reflex

    3. How long is an erupted square made difficult terrain?

    4. Defiler's Dark Swarm should last until the end of their next turn and be Sustain: Minor. Also, give them plague as a ranged area attack dealing DOT instead of straight damage. That way Cannibalize (called Consume in games) gives them options, rather than just dark swarm.

    5. Maybe change the Overlord's "Spur the Hive" (which I think might be a little unfair) to a recharge 4/5/6 power that treats all Zerg units affected by Hive Mind as if they had the Group Tactics ability until the end of their next turn.

    6. Mutalisk's Dive Bomb might be unfair for an at-will (essentially gives them 3 free move actions) Maybe make it Recharge 6, or Recharge 5/6?

    7. Keep up the awesome work (I would like to help with the remaining creatures, but all I'm working from is a PHB until Friday)
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    1. Done

    2. Fixed

    3. Not sure... I figure it's up to the DM, since it's more of a permanent terrain change.

    4. You're saying, as another encounter ability? Not sure... The suggestion is 1 encounter power per tier, so I'm mostly trying to stick to that. There's going to be more of them, so I can add abilities to those...

    5. Well, the Overlord's Spur the Hive is only 1/encounter, so, at most, it allows other zerg to use theirs twice.

    6. I can see that... I'll make it 6, then add an additional die for recharge per tier?

    7. Will do


    EDITS: Posted planned zerg stat blocks to clear up any further confusion

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Question. The Zerg Queen/Matriarch/Empress, are those SC / BR Queens, or SC2 Queens? SC2 Queens are essentially female Ultralisks with more range, teleport and a crapload of spells.

    Also, I can see Spur The Hive getting REALLY cheap at later tiers where they all have encounter powers (Rechargeable abilities would count as encounter powers for the purpose of Spur the Hive, as well) Its broken when you put in 2 Overlords as they spur each other every turn, essentially making all Zerg encounter powers at-will powers as long as both of them are alive. Also, characters don't get power recouperation abilities until Low-Mid Paragon tier, and some never get the ability to regain powers.

    If you don't mind, I'd love to help you with this once I get my MM and DMG on Friday.
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Have a good point there. And no, I wouldn't mind how's best for you for talking about ideas?

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    I'll post stuff I make here, and you can format it I guess. I'm going to badger my DM alot until he lets us use these in his campaign. I have even found a way to implement the Zerg into a normal DND setting: The Hypercube (follow link and prepare to have your mind broken)
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    minor suggestion on the burrow ability. Instead of the increase in perception checks to hearing, give them tremorsense out to some distance. Probably easier if you have an 'approach within X' kind of reaction, instead of relying on perception checks.

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Hope you haven't done this one yet:
    (The table failed to come through. Hope you're able to sort through this)

    Defiler Unclean One
    Medium Zerg Level 17 Controller
    1,600 XP
    Initiative +15 Senses: +14 Perception, Darkvision
    Hp: 178 Bloodied: 89
    AC: 33 Fortitude: 33 Reflex: 30 Will: 28
    Immune Disease, Resist 10 Acid, 10 Poison
    Speed 6
    (BR) Acid Squirt (Standard Action, At-Will) * Acid
    Ranged 8, +18 vs. Reflex; 1d10 + 6
    [RA] Dark Swarm (Standard Action, Encounter) * Conjuration, Zone
    Burst 3 within 8; The area creates a zone of concealing fog until the end of the Defilerís next turn. The fog grants concealment to creatures in its space and blocks line of sight. Sustain Minor: The zone persists.
    [RA] Plague (Standard Action, Encounter) * Poison, Acid
    Burst 3 within 10; +20 vs. Reflex; The target takes ongoing 10 Acid damage and ongoing 5 Poison damage (save ends both). They continue to take ongoing 5 Acid damage after they save (save ends).
    Consume (Standard Action, At-Will)
    Devour one corpse or Zerg unit of the Defilerís level or lower within melee range. Regain the use of any one expended encounter power. This action provokes attacks of opportunity.
    Burrow (Standard Action, At-Will)
    The Defiler burrows underground. It may not take actions unless they specify that they are usable when burrowed. It may not make opportunity attacks. Other creatures can pass through the square it occupied. It gains a +4 bonus on Stealth checks and is considered to have superior cover and superior concealment. It loses vision, but gains Tremorsense 15.
    Erupt (Move Action, At-Will, while Burrowed)
    The Defiler may erupt from the ground when burrowed. The square the Defiler erupted from becomes difficult until the end of the encounter. This action provokes attacks of opportunity as if the defiler was standing up from prone.
    Chaotic Evil
    Strength: 18 (+12)
    Constitution: 26 (+16) Languages: Zerg
    Dexterity: 24 (+15)
    Intelligence: 5 (+6)
    Wisdom: 22 (+14)
    Charisma: 14 (+10)
    Skills: -
    Equipment: None

    Defiler Unclean One Tactics: The Defiler and its minions burrow themselves in mountain passes and use their Tremorsense to detect enemies. When a group of prey walks into the middle of the group of Zerg, they use their Erupt power to leap from the ground and surround the enemy. The destruction of the ground due to eruption also makes it harder for the prey to escape. The Defiler surrounds itself with Larvae or Zerglingspawn, starting things off with a Dark Swarm attack. On its next turn, it uses Consume on a nearby Zerg unit, and regains the use of Dark Swarm. It also maintains the first Dark Swarm with its minor action. It proceeds to lay another Dark Swarm, not moving and simply maintaining the Dark Swarms until the prey is neutralized. It will also use Plague freely to deal high amounts of damage to prey. Once prey escapes the Plague, it uses consume so it may re-cast Plague again. In between plaguings, it utilizes Acid Squirt.

    *added Zerg as its origin. Makes more sense than "being from the Far Realm" IMHO. I think it should just be a monster from a different Material Plane.
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Quote Originally Posted by daedu View Post
    2. Fixed
    Why not make the reflex for overlord the same as how you did it originally but instead lower the speed? Just because an overlord floats slowly (it doesn't have wings, and is very massive after all), doesn't mean its reflex saves shouldn't be up to par.

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Going to get around to the other changes mentioned as the week goes on. Had a busy week getting used to work again. Plus, dragoncon this weekend!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf View Post
    Defiler Unclean One stuff
    Pretty similar to what I had in mind... I'll format it up and adjust a few things (attacks that target more than 1 target get -2 to attack, not +2, etc)

    Been keeping Charisma at 1. Force of Personality? Nothing at all, they're only 'extensions' of the zerg overmind

    Not sure about that erupt provoking OAs... kinda ruins the point of it

    I'll look more later, it's way past sleeping time

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Updated with Baneling and Zerg Queen (including Broodling Disease!)

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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Very nice so far, but I have to say I am rather surprised that the Zergling is a soldier, not a minion. It seems like the very epitome of a minion to me: released in massive numbers, with no care for casualties, et cetera. Perhaps there should be a "lesser zergling" minion 4, without burrow and all the fun stuff?

    -edit- just saw the minion 8 zergling, which makes my argument more or less invalid. Carry on!
    Last edited by Erk; 2008-09-16 at 08:48 PM.
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    Default Re: [Monsters; 4e] The Zerg

    Quote Originally Posted by daedu View Post
    Updated with Baneling and Zerg Queen (including Broodling Disease!)
    Love the Queens (and the Broodling Disease esp. Take a look at Chaos Phage though. It may help a bit with balancing between how often it comes into play)

    Baneling's attack should have the note that it deals the 6 damage to itself also (incase it has temp hp, maybe it can do it more than once?) and make it at-will.
    I had one idea for banelings I thought would be neat: Make it so that if they're killed, they explode as well, which gives PCs a real disinsentive to, you know, carry ranged weapons. That way you can blow them up from a safe distance. And should the explosion harm allies to? I would see this as appropriate, although if you're surround by banelings and you kill one, you would be in for one hell of an explosion.
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