Dota anyone?

[toasty]

You know what Tinker is missing there? Shiva's Guard, Linkens, Sheep Stick. Then you actually are unstoppable.

Also, Mathiew, I wouldn't say it's necessarily you. Remember, Dota is a team game. Your loosing streak can be attributed to more then just yourself.

And heck, even when my team goes pub stomping, we actually have been beaten by pubs. Granted, that's because we aren't bothering to listen to each other and we are picking silly heroes (Go team Image! Oh.. they have Earth Shaker ;_:).

This is a problem. No matter how good you are it doesn't matter if your team sucks. If you team sucks, you can bet you'll lose. :)

[Adumbration]

This is a problem. No matter how good you are it doesn't matter if your team sucks. If you team sucks, you can bet you'll lose. :)

In the other hand, sometimes in pub games it's fun when all you're allies leave and you can start pawning with your new items.

Has happened to me a few times. Fun times.

[Poison_Fish]

Depends on the hero you get. Though, I did have a silly game with my whole team leaving and I just happen to be playing earthshaker. Uber earthshaker to wreck team fights. I'd only win if they were all fighting me at once. Blink Dagger + BoT's + Refresher Orb + Sheep stick + BKB + Shiva's Guard.

That's a lot of AoE damage with 2 shiva's, 2 fissures, and 2 echo's.

[EndlessWrath]

You mention ES and it reminded me of yesterday's game. 8/2/9 Krobeulus. 4 kills were on ES.
build was:
1)New phaseboots
2) Null talisman and bracer
3) Perseverence
4) Guinsoo
5) Orchids
6) ult Orb (to finish linkens...)

Mind you... I was getting stun blasted by ES and Sand king..so linkens and the multi disables were nice.

[evisiron]

Just got back into DotA as our local gaming centre is starting an inter club clan.

All pleased with myself as in the last Allstars game (AP) I picked sniper and got 9/2/4. We won.

Still rusty, but getting back in the way of things.

[Artemician]

Is it just me, or is KotL quite a... disgusting laner right now? Recently I just happened to watch a Ks.Int vs MeT replay, the highlight of the early game being Omniknight/Warlock vs KotL/Phantom Lancer.

Much to my surprise, KotL/PL was WINNING. Not by outfarming, but simply by pure, mass nukeage. Spirit Lance has a superior cast range/cooldown to most spells, and coupled with Chakra... it was just disgusting. The only reason Omni/Warlock didn't just die was because Ks.Int happened to have CM on their side, which gave them mana to outheal the nuke.

I'll have to rethink the way I play KotL now...

[Poison_Fish]

We've ran that KotL + Phantom combo before and it's very, very deadly.

KotL makes a great baby sitter for a carry hero. It's even better when the carry hero has a nuke he can spam.

Other good combo's for him are: Magnus/Nevermore for him to babysit, though I usually end up solo'ing either of them.

[Artemician]

I don't really like Mag/SF with Kotl, since their nukes are not really mana intensive (kind of a waste of Chakra), and also since they really need levels, especially Mag.

Our team tried a few heroes as KotL partners. Lina tended to push a lot, but Gondar is pretty disgusting. Zeus didn't need the babysit, nor the mana. Crixalis was great. We never really ran Carry babysits with KotL, maybe we should try that.

On a preliminary think, neither SA nor Spec really work. Brood might, even though she'd be better off soloing or jungling. Lycan jungles. Naix jungles. Terrorblade jungles. DK and Leoric seem like they'd work though.

[Poison_Fish]

Yeah, those were just ideas for carries that have nukes.

Phantom seems to be the best choice, since his nuke is also on a short cool down.

Now Gondar we never considered.

I actually imagine you could do all right with Sven/Skele/ or Slaadar. But if your doing Slaadar, you'd want the mana drain first. Sven/Skele would be a better choice then Slaadar.

Chaos Knight might also work.

[EndlessWrath]

imo, Kotl has had a change for the worse recently.

From what I've seen he can mana leak... which activates regardless if you cast a spell or not. It used to drain mana after you've cast a spell. He has an AOE nuke/stun?? and now he has this phantom thing that lets him spam illuminate without having to sit there and channel it? Maybe its just me.. but a very strong support hero/farmer has now changed to a good carry AND is far more powerful than many others of his kind.

I fear this is leading Dota for a turn to the worst.

btw. what time is gitp dota? I seemed to have lightened my schedule and think i can join.

[Artemician]

imo, Kotl has had a change for the worse recently.

From what I've seen he can mana leak... which activates regardless if you cast a spell or not. It used to drain mana after you've cast a spell. He has an AOE nuke/stun?? and now he has this phantom thing that lets him spam illuminate without having to sit there and channel it? Maybe its just me.. but a very strong support hero/farmer has now changed to a good carry AND is far more powerful than many others of his kind.

I fear this is leading Dota for a turn to the worst.

He is still a good support hero, a far better support hero than he used to be, but his farming has taken a hit. Not that he can't farm (illuminate still kills), but the fact is that his supporting has been buffed to the point where its better to support than to farm. So you don't see anyone farming with him. A good thing too, KotL will never really be a carry, since he has no use for items, and uses them badly even if he farms.

Spirit form is a very good ultimate, because it actually lets Ezalor do something in team fights. But it's hardly overpowered along the lines of Zeus, SA or old Admiral.

[Cynan Machae]

btw. what time is gitp dota? I seemed to have lightened my schedule and think i can join.

Officially around 6 PM EST in channel GitP on East, but most of the time people show up a bit later.

[evisiron]

Ouch.

Our gaming center grudge match (Colraine vs Bangor) ended with us getting utterly stomped. Apparently after they were destroyed last week they gave up WoW to practice DotA non-stop. Seems to have paid off.

We had serious trouble dealing with Ad Proudmore. I had no idea his AOE could reach further than Razors ranged attacks until it was dropping my HP like crazy.

[Poison_Fish]

Proudmore is still a good pick even after his nerf. His ship is amazing in team fights. X is also fairly useful along with torrent. Also not a bad melee solo because of tidebringer.

[Zenthar]

imo, Kotl has had a change for the worse recently.

From what I've seen he can mana leak... which activates regardless if you cast a spell or not. It used to drain mana after you've cast a spell. He has an AOE nuke/stun?? and now he has this phantom thing that lets him spam illuminate without having to sit there and channel it? Maybe its just me.. but a very strong support hero/farmer has now changed to a good carry AND is far more powerful than many others of his kind.

I fear this is leading Dota for a turn to the worst.

btw. what time is gitp dota? I seemed to have lightened my schedule and think i can join.

Haha err well... KotL is nowhere near a carry.. and saying he's a GOOD carry.. well err.. no.. just.. no. He cannot carry at all except in some very low skilled pubs where he farms 2x Divine rapiers while other people just got their Power Treads.

And Mana Leak is good but very situational, as normally your enemy can just stop and be unaffected by it. It isn't an AoE nuke/stun. It has a single target stun if the target runs out of mana.

His ultimate letting him channel Illuminate without being there is kinda good early-game for damaging some stupid enemies but other than that.. it's nothing special.

KotL wasn't a "very good support hero". In fact, he was never picked before his remake and had the nickname "Feeder of the Light" or "Keeper of the -repick".

He is now sometimes picked in competitive games because he's a decent babysitter and his lane mate can spam spells with his help.

So uh.. KotL has very, very very minimal effect on DotA so I really have no idea how he's taking DotA in the wrong direction.

[Cynan Machae]

I'm on right now (so is legoshrimp) and a few people might join us later on.

And on the subject of KotL, I really do like the new one. He's not imbalanced, and he now plays a role in a team.

[Oslecamo]

KotL wasn't a "very good support hero". In fact, he was never picked before his remake and had the nickname "Feeder of the Light" or "Keeper of the -repick".

I have to disagre with this. The old Kotl, using chakra on himself, could push better than anyone in early game, forcing the other team to get out of the way or get nuked to death, thanks to the huge area affected by the nuke.

And his old ultimate rocked for pushing. Make the little orb teleport into a lane where no hero is and see him push while the two teams engage. Even if the other team sends one of their to counter the push, just teleport the orbs again to another empty lane and repeat. It worked wonders in late game where it's essential to keep pushing in several lanes at the same time.

The old mana leak also speaked doom to heros who're based on going nova, since it wouldn't allow that guy to unleash all it's spells into a chain. Basically a very long time silence.

[Poison_Fish]

And if you really wanted people to go raging, you'd team up an old KotL with the new Naix. He would infest the floating orb and you'd have your own taxi service for a Naix ready to eat someone.

I've seen it and done it in action. Much fun results. Granted you can no longer do it with KotL's new ult. Which I still like.

[Artemician]

I have to disagre with this. The old Kotl, using chakra on himself, could push better than anyone in early game, forcing the other team to get out of the way or get nuked to death, thanks to the huge area affected by the nuke.

And his old ultimate rocked for pushing. Make the little orb teleport into a lane where no hero is and see him push while the two teams engage. Even if the other team sends one of their to counter the push, just teleport the orbs again to another empty lane and repeat. It worked wonders in late game where it's essential to keep pushing in several lanes at the same time.

The old mana leak also speaked doom to heros who're based on going nova, since it wouldn't allow that guy to unleash all it's spells into a chain. Basically a very long time silence.

KotL doesn't actually push THAT well, especially early game. Pre-remake Chakra actually restored less mana than it does now, although it did add a minor damage and hp regen bonus. Until level 5, you have no mana to constantly spam Illuminate. And even then, so what? All you do is push your own lane, feed your enemies easy lasthits, and then get ganked, depriving

your lane partner of gold in the process.

Ignis was pretty good at pushing...when you hit level 16. Before that, it's essentially worthless. Mana Leak would be incredibly good against nukers when you're level 16. But what of it? By that time, all nukers short of Zeus wouldn't be doing much damage anyway.

Mana Rupture, in contrast starts off strong, and stays strong all the way to late game. Spirit Form means you're not so good at pushing, but you can actually do SOMETHING in team fights, by getting off a 500 damage nuke, as well as being able to massively lower enemy damage.

It is a fact that KotL was never picked in serious games before his remake, and after his remake he's actually seeing play as a support/babysitter. He never had a role before, and he does now.

[Zenthar]

I have to disagre with this. The old Kotl, using chakra on himself, could push better than anyone in early game, forcing the other team to get out of the way or get nuked to death, thanks to the huge area affected by the nuke.

And his old ultimate rocked for pushing. Make the little orb teleport into a lane where no hero is and see him push while the two teams engage. Even if the other team sends one of their to counter the push, just teleport the orbs again to another empty lane and repeat. It worked wonders in late game where it's essential to keep pushing in several lanes at the same time.

The old mana leak also speaked doom to heros who're based on going nova, since it wouldn't allow that guy to unleash all it's spells into a chain. Basically a very long time silence.

There's nothing to disagree about, it's just a fact.. the new KotL is much better.

And no, you don't go "out of the way". You run next to him and beat him to death.

His old ulti didn't really work at all for pushing. A lone hero could kill the entire wave in seconds, so it was useless for that. It was good for farming, though.

The old mana leak was pretty good, yes.

And Poison_Fish, Rexxar's hawk + N'aix still works and it's better.

[Poison_Fish]

Indeed Rexar's hawk does work well. But with Ignus, you can give Naix no downtime whatsoever between his farming and his ganking. The immediate teleport right before a gank to get him nearly anywhere on the map serves to be very effective.

[Artemician]

Indeed Rexar's hawk does work well. But with Ignus, you can give Naix no downtime whatsoever between his farming and his ganking. The immediate teleport right before a gank to get him nearly anywhere on the map serves to be very effective.

While it isn't quite as effective, KotL's new Recall still allows this to some extent, as well as having the added bonus of working with any hero.

* * *
On a completely unrelated note, has anyone figured out a proper build for AP yet?

[mathieumg]

On a completely unrelated note, has anyone figured out a proper build for AP yet?

I posted one, but nobody commented on it.

Regarding my 13 game losing streak described above, it finally ended after that 13th game (went on to win the next 4) and I've won roughly 70% of the games since! :D

[mathieumg]

6.58 is out :o

Kunkka nerfed once again, haha.

[shadowxknight]

I heard that Undying has become extremely good with the new patch
Haven't had a chance to play yet, though.

[Cynan Machae]

Yea, that strengh leech seems kinda imba with that cooldown. Haven't seen him yet, but I reailly did hate playing vs him before, now I think it'S just gonna get worse <<

[Artemician]

I heard that Undying has become extremely good with the new patch
Haven't had a chance to play yet, though.

Old Dirge was basically a poor man's Lycan.

New Dirge is more... Necrolyte. The annoying guy who keeps spamming his spells that screw your team over, so you have to kill him. Only he's hard to kill.

*

This patch just buffed Naix even more. T.T

[Poison_Fish]

New panda is fun and quite crazy. Granted if he gets enough items, he can lightning across the battlefield. Him with a regen rune is even more amusing.

[Artemician]

New panda is fun and quite crazy. Granted if he gets enough items, he can lightning across the battlefield. Him with a regen rune is even more amusing.

He lightnings across the battlefield while being pretty much useless >>

[Legoshrimp]

I have been wondering why does the thread have many many people that I haven't seen at the dota sessions? This could be that I did not show up when they where first going. Or that much recently, but it has normally been me cynan and mathieumg sometimes someone else shows up. But never enough to do in house games. I do not remember anyone recently having to be on a separate team from the rest of the group. This means <5 people have showed up.
When is it supposed to start? I remember it was something like 3pst(6est) on Wednesday

So is that a bad time for people? Would there be a better time to meet where more people could show up?