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Thread: Dota anyone?

  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    If you have decent teammates Mortred only needs 4 items to pwn:
    Treads, Helm of Dom(or Satanic if you can farm it), Bfury, MKB.

    Treads for attack speed/movespeed. Helm of Dom for lifesteal, Bfury for cleave and damage, MKB so they can't stun you.

    These items and Mortred's level 3 ult is all you need
    Of course, I'm sure those of you who are pro can probably find numerous ways to counter

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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowxknight View Post
    MKB so they can't stun you.
    You mean BKB, right? MKB is great for stopping channeling but doesn't do a thing to protect you from stuns.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Yes Yes, BKB.

    I always get those 2 mixed up

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Well, first of all, yeah, we already have a WC thread riiiight here like Cynan said. Feel free to join the group.

    Now, for the thread,

    I usually play DotA if there isn't a Enfos or (sometimes when i feel like it) LoaP present, mostly apem games. I only know i'm decent with Nerubian Weaver, Vengeful Spirit, and the N'aix guy. Mostly Naix though, cause in 33% of the games i play, someone always chooses Axe, and N'aix is pretty effective against him .

    I'm wanting to try tree guy sometime, any suggestions on how he plays?

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    Ooo a good weaver player!
    I would appreciate a few tips x_x

    Do you bother getting lifesteal since his orb effect isn't 100%?

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    Hmm, never considered it. I should try sometime to see.

    Well, generally, the way i play weaver is mostly support, unless i somehow get an extreme amount of kills, then i just play assassin style. At the beginning, i always get a few clarity pots, and spam my invis on them for a bit. Eventually, that won't be very effective so you'll have to mostly live with you're dual attack as the skill you'll be relying on most. Time Lapse is VERY useful, because it WILL get you out of sticky situations where you get spammed with dmg in 4 seconds, and then you'll be *Zwoot* and you're back at full hp. I think of it as getting to have twice the amount of hp, but i think differently, so yeah, don't take my word for it. And i usually farm for a bit, then get either Butterfly or Radiance.

    But that's just how i play, i'm not actually very pro.

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    Hmm I think I see my problem.

    I try to build all my heroes to be late-game carries. Heck I even tried to make Lich into a DPS

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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Ouch

    Generally, the Strength heros are late gamers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynan Machae View Post
    Yea I dislike -em also. It's sad that most player start to play DotA with -em. I guess it's ok when you've been playing regular DotA for a while and you decide you wanna play -em, but starting as -em isnt a good way to learn, IMO.

    Yea I've played Magnus with BF before, but I didnt like the fac that he was doing more cleaved damage than target damage >< But with his ult, it's pretty good.

    ...pro sniper?
    Well, the sniper assured me it was. I just laughed and continued to kill him.

    And I agree, EM is a terrible way to learn. It doesn't reinforce many of the important skills that are used in dota. Last hitting/denying stops being important.

    Thing with Magnus is, when I get the ult off, the rest of my team in a team battle is usually there to follow up. That or at least one or two. With empower up and some other damage item besides BF (Armlet, great to turn that on just before you ult, so you can survive whatever after, and does great damage), you're already doing enough cleave damage.

    Also, wave early game is great. Magnus is one of the few melee heroes I love to solo a lane with. As around level's 5-7, two well placed waves can nearly kill most low health heroes.

    If you have decent teammates Mortred only needs 4 items to pwn:
    Treads, Helm of Dom(or Satanic if you can farm it), Bfury, MKB.
    See, the key to "decent" teammates is that they handle their lanes and play it carefully. I can assure you if there is a mortred out there, there should at least be several people hunting her down. She's also still one of the poorer choices for carries these days. Great for EM games I hear though.

    Just that, as far as carry heroes go, Voidwalker and Troll outperform her, though her crit is king. Void has a passive evasion that isn't just dodge, and a natural bash. Along with a more useful ult in terms of team battles and an escape/engage mechanism.

    Troll can permi-bash, has an easier time last hitting early on, and can run away pretty fast with his ult.

    That's not to discount mortred. If a mortred player knows when creep waves come and keeps an eye on that, using blink strike, be it enemies or friends, is a clever way to escape. Then again, I love doing the same as Chaos Knight, who is somewhat similar to mortred, but even better with a stun. Ganker/carry rather then just straight carry.

    For weaver, I haven't played him much, but I've done hilarious things with his scouts and shadow priest. Shadow priest's heal does damage to where the heals bounce in an AoE. So, a friend and I stacked a whole bunch of scouts on an enemy in a lane, and just walked in, healed them, and the enemy exploded. A viable strategy though? Not so much, but hilarious. If weaver is with shadow priest, him going his stealth + damage is better as shadow priest goes slow. That's much more dangerous in a lane.

    As for orb effects, I've lately been seeing a lot of weavers build skadi's rather then life steal. It does give a good amount of health to live.
    Last edited by Poison_Fish; 2008-08-26 at 11:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison_Fish View Post
    For weaver, I haven't played him much, but I've done hilarious things with his scouts and shadow priest. Shadow priest's heal does damage to where the heals bounce in an AoE. So, a friend and I stacked a whole bunch of scouts on an enemy in a lane, and just walked in, healed them, and the enemy exploded. A viable strategy though? Not so much, but hilarious. If weaver is with shadow priest, him going his stealth + damage is better as shadow priest goes slow. That's much more dangerous in a lane.
    The bounce heal works on people with full health?

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomsized View Post
    The bounce heal works on people with full health?
    I've done it before in previous patches. I haven't done that silly trick since Shadow Priest was released, so they might have changed it.

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    I <3 dazzle. They upped him in the recent version. His shallow grave is a level 1 spell now. and makes it so people can't be killed for x many seconds. Weave is now his ulti...and its an aoe armor drain on foes.
    ----------------
    on the -em debate. I'm not super competitive, and the majority of players play em anyways. since I'm normally bad at denying and creep blocking, my skills in a non -em game would be a direct result of my farming capabilities.
    To sum up. Half the heroes I like to play... I couldn't play anymore. cause I usually just try to goof off or enjoy the game.
    ----------------
    On another note. I played today and last night for the first time in a while. my clinkz game was terrible... surprisingly... but i loved my Krobe game and my SB game. Unfortunately. in all 6-8 games..every single one. we had 3-5 leavers. Is leavers a big problem with all of you? The only way I've found that slows the leaver process, is Banlist and in house gaming. Both of which, are limited on me.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    BL don't really do much to stop leavers really. Yea, IH/TDA/etc are good for non-leavers games.

    Yes Dazzle is pretty good now. Haven't played him yet, but had a chance of having good Dazzle allies, and yea, new shallow grae rocks, and weave is pretty good.

    And your point that half the heros in a non-em game you wouldnt be good at, is the same that 2/3 or the hero in a em game arent even worth it really.

    Anyway, so where are you people playing/usernames? We could make some list of people who play and where. Or even set GitP IHs or something.

    Myself, I play on East (Azeroth) and username is CynanMachae.
    Cynan


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    I'm on US west as flib. I can host and use an autorefresher, but, unfortunately, no banlist or listchecker for us dirty mac users. So I can't tell if someone will drop out due to lag (The main point of BL IMO these days).

    I find em games tend to have more leavers then most non-em games. But then, em games also go quicker.

    Don't forget for Dazzle that his AoE also ups your friends armor, and it's dirt cheap in casting cost.

    I agree with Cynan, that an em game alienates more heroes than a non-em game. Mostly because in em, a lot of the best gankers/int heroes/etc. loose their importance at a greater speed because farming happens so fast. Early game doesn't matter as much.

    Meanwhile, in non em, the carry heroes that do so well in em, while can still do well, take much longer to get to that point. Which I like. Because I honestly hate seeing a game where the team picks 5 carries, and wins. Which I find happens in EM a lot, though can be stopped if they aren't that good. That and my favorite part of Dota has always been early and mid game, especially when playing puck, NA, etc.

    Story time: I once got stuck in an arem game with a friend, the enemy team was full of the killer carries, but somehow we took them all on with just lesherac/crystal maiden. Largely, we took them all on only because none of them got a linkens or bkb, but still, it was satisfying considering our kill count near the end of the game, despite them having the good items.
    Last edited by Poison_Fish; 2008-08-28 at 01:05 AM.

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    I mostly play -em games, I must confess. The usual ones take usually way too much time for my time schedule, with all the homework and such.

    But I digress. What heroes am I good with? Nerubian Weaver. Necrolyte. Rylai. I've had some beyond godlikes with those. I'm also pretty much decent with any given hero, unless I screw up in the beginning and get repeatedly killed.

    One question, though. From what I've seen, I'm the only one that uses Radiance with Weaver. Is this so? Speed invis + radiance + gemini strike is really good, from what I've tried. Just keep running behind them - and most people can't be bothered to buy wards or gem against Weaver, becouse the invis is so short and the speed boost helps him get away.

    On creep denying and last hitting. The latter I admit is useful, for the extra gold. The former not. I once played on a lane - low level - with a Terrorblade against Magina. The Magina was a good player when it came to denying, but he utterly failed in PvP. I killed him twice, when he tried to harass me, and I got all the gold I would potentially have lost through his denying.
    Last edited by Adumbration; 2008-08-28 at 01:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    About denying, it doesn't just make sure your opponent doesn't get gold. It also reduces the xp he gets from that creep, and if you do it enough you will fairly quickly get much higher level than your opponent. It doesn't make up for terrible PvP skill, true, but when paired with decent skill at the rest of the game it can give a substantial extra advantage.
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Heh, just played an -ap game. Randomed a warlock, got in stats of 8-1. The enemies weren't much to brag about, and there were leavers on both sides, but it was fun.

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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Yay! DotA thread!

    As you can guess, I am a fan. There was a golden age a year back before I went to US where our gaming centre had a team that would play against other gaming centre teams. We kicked so much ass.

    Unfortunately, no-one I know IRl really plays it any more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    Heh, just played an -ap game. Randomed a warlock, got in stats of 8-1. The enemies weren't much to brag about, and there were leavers on both sides, but it was fun.
    Guess which hero is banned alot? :-P.

    Warlock is just an awesome choice in nearly any game. He's pretty simple to play too.

    Speaking of which, I had an interesting time the other day in a pub game. I ended up playing viper, since I figured lane control would be nice, and I somehow got a troll warlord refusing to leave my solo lane. Not only that, but against me in the lane is invoker/techies. Well, I payed attention to where techies put his mines. The great thing about the regular mines of his is they won't explode on me because I fly. I attempt to inform warlord of this, as to not follow me directly when I'm orb walking around the opponents. What does he do within the first 10 minutes of the game? Kills me 4 times by running up and triggering the mines just to try and kill either invoker or techies. Also, he kept auto-attacking pushing the lane up to their tower ;_;. We still one the game, but I think it was because I left the lane and helped others out rather then let both of us feed techies/invoker.
    Last edited by Poison_Fish; 2008-08-28 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison_Fish View Post
    Warlock is just an awesome choice in nearly any game. He's pretty simple to play too.
    I agree that he's definitely awesome.. but i have a hard time playing with him . I get him and play logically... doing semi-well. but mostly just assisting where as I don't really do well with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poison_Fish View Post
    Speaking of which, I had an interesting time the other day in a pub game. I ended up playing viper, since I figured lane control would be nice, and I somehow got a troll warlord refusing to leave my solo lane. Not only that, but against me in the lane is invoker/techies. Well, I payed attention to where techies put his mines. The great thing about the regular mines of his is they won't explode on me because I fly. I attempt to inform warlord of this, as to not follow me directly when I'm orb walking around the opponents. What does he do within the first 10 minutes of the game? Kills me 4 times by running up and triggering the mines just to try and kill either invoker or techies. Also, he kept auto-attacking pushing the lane up to their tower ;_;. We still one the game, but I think it was because I left the lane and helped others out rather then let both of us feed techies/invoker.
    Never heard the term orbwalking. pretty neat though, i should probably look into that.

    A fed techies I'm not too worried about. for 750 gold I can just end techies existence. Even if he gets sheepstick and such. I'm not too worried. late game he's rubbish.
    As for a fed invoker... Invoker is rubbish early game... after level 10 he's crazy good. I'd definitely worry about a fed invoker. especially if I'm playing him.
    ----------------
    I got to give kudos to the sniper i was playing against today. SnY, MoM, Butterfly, Treads, Buriza, MKB. yes i know about the 2 orb effects. he didn't care. all he wanted was ridiculous attack speed. he was like... 13/5 end game.
    ---------------
    anyone got a good Tree build? all i got is 2x bracer, treads (strength), heart, Vlads, Radiance. I really wanna start learning treant, after me and my buddy perfected the tree invis/ ursa stomp kill technique. I also love the aoe disable mixed with Tide's ulti. please and thank you.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Yes, i'm also interested in using tree more and more. Any tips would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomsized View Post
    Yes, i'm also interested in using tree more and more. Any tips would be nice.
    Well I'm not that good with him but I know tree got a really bad attack speed, even with thread at level 25, so I try to get a hyperstone as soon as possible and, combined with radiance, you are gonna kill someone pretty much everytime you ult. I also already saw lots of people give him refresher orb. I never actually managed to get it but I saw lots of people kill an entire team with tree and refresher. It mainly work with hero that arent spellcaster though since you can actually still cast spell when you are in tree ult but against hero with few spells, you can easely kill the entire team without taking much damage. Its also good because he kinda need a lot of mana which is why, even if I never finished refresher, I always at least get perseverance. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, he doesnt really need heart that much either. Maybe as a last items if you are fed but I think his third skill and his invisibility are usually enough to get away from anything if you got enough mana (which is why, once again, I think perseverance is kinda vital with him). But hey thats just me and as I said, I dont play with him that often. Either way, try to use his second skill as much as possible and use it on tree that are on top of cliff if you can. After a while, its like having a «Iseedeadpeople» cheat on the map so even if you arent doing very well that game, at least you still really help your teammates.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    About denying, it doesn't just make sure your opponent doesn't get gold. It also reduces the xp he gets from that creep, and if you do it enough you will fairly quickly get much higher level than your opponent. It doesn't make up for terrible PvP skill, true, but when paired with decent skill at the rest of the game it can give a substantial extra advantage.
    Yeah but the problem is that everyone focus way too much on that. Seriously, I already saw lots of players who were doing 'just' that and who never hit my creeps. They were just moving back and forth, waiting for the good moment to strike, to be able to deny as much of their creep as possible...and always get their lanes pushed to the second tower after ten minutes as a result. Now I'm sure some people are really good at this and can focus on deny, on my creep and on me at the same time but...these players are rare. As far as I'm concerned, you should pay more attention to my creep and myself instead of denying your creeps.

    That being said, when you are in a lane where you are 2vs1, you can easely have one guy denying creep while the other harrass the enemy hero and then its a really good strategy. Even if the other guy is alone in that line, he wont really get more levels then the two of you.
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Funnily, you can understand the "hardcore" factor (heh) of your enemy by watching his moves in early game creeping. Better players somehow simultaneously do the following 3 things:

    1-Watch out for the last hits while not engaging combat (of course)
    2-Watch out for the enemy's last hits to deny the creep.
    OR
    3-Watch out for the enemy's last hits to get free hits on that hero.

    Usually, the third is more effective than denying. Despite that, I don't usually do it because of my laziness.

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    On Tree: Don't get a radiance. Ever. It essentially nerfs the whole point of his stealth if your setting up for a team battle.

    Tree's problem is that he's slow. Otherwise, he's a great hero with the best strength gain ever. I often enough see hearts or other heavy strength items, and even masks of madness to give him more move speed. But honestly, in team games, he almost always goes for a refresher with haste. Two chances to root the entire enemy team is too good to pass up. After some life steal, just load up strength.

    My priorities always change in lanes for harassing, denying, last hitting depending on the hero I am facing and what I am playing. With Viper, I'm actually harassing far more then anything else. With say, chaos knight, I run in and deny and last hit, but rarely harass. I tend to harass/deny carry heroes more to slow down their game further. Denying, honestly, doesn't mean as much if you kick the hero out of the lane. But one of the other decent advantages is making sure the fights stay near your tower rather then the opponents.

    On warlock: What one has to remember is that warlock is a support hero. Early game, I just go heal and stats to harass. He makes a good solo/baby sitter so that's why I enjoy him. His slow is honestly useless, but his link is useful much later on. Rock is great for turning the tide of team battles as well.

    On techies. I hate techies. It's not a matter of feeding him that bothers me. What bothers me is that he is one of the best characters to slow down a game for carries ever. Even if he leaves. Rooting out his mines, always carrying wards around/building a necro book takes time.

    On AoE disable, Magnus/Earth Shaker, enough said (Throw in tiny for hilarity, but I dislike 3 melee hero teams, so warlock or enigma for more AoE, except enigma is not a good hero). In really lucky games playing Earth Shaker(Games that didn't end early) I've gotten ES with a refresh and I could shut down whole teams for roughly 10-12 seconds along with two echo slams. And with a big enough creep wave, 2 echo's are enough to kill nearly anyone.

    on orb walking, some other users here I'm sure know about it, but the key to orb based effects, specifically auto-casting ones (Viper, Silencer, Obsidian, Drow, Clinkz, and a few others I'm sure I'm missing), is using the manual target command on an enemy to hit them. When you do that to harass, the creeps won't pull to you. The second part to this, of course, is to animation cancel so you fire, and right after, click to move; Essentially, firing while moving. This works excellent in, say, viper's case, as he can constantly follow an opponent, output a ton of damage, and have them never get away. A happy viper is when he sees a lone hero a screen or two away from his tower. Early game, this can hurt quite a lot.

    On that sniper, I'm shocked a sniper could be allowed to farm that up. Without a lothar's even. Most snipers would be ganked 24/7, as he's also one of those mediocre heroes for in house games and the like. But then, that's public games, <_<. Also, most likely em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison_Fish View Post
    For weaver, I haven't played him much, but I've done hilarious things with his scouts and shadow priest. Shadow priest's heal does damage to where the heals bounce in an AoE. So, a friend and I stacked a whole bunch of scouts on an enemy in a lane, and just walked in, healed them, and the enemy exploded. A viable strategy though? Not so much, but hilarious. If weaver is with shadow priest, him going his stealth + damage is better as shadow priest goes slow. That's much more dangerous in a lane.
    I prefer Dark Seer + Weaver. 522 ms Ion Shell Carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    I mostly play -em games, I must confess. The usual ones take usually way too much time for my time schedule, with all the homework and such.
    Actually, -em games last just as long as regular games, from what I've seen. You just reach lategame faster, but the overall game time is still around the same.

    *


    On another note, I've been observing an interesting trend in the Tournament metagame lately.

    The previous Holy Trinity of Banned Heroes has been disturbed. While Beast and Zeus are still banned, the metagame has shifted in such a fashion that NA is actually not 100% banned anymore. And the funny thing is, people are *not* playing him! That's just plain wierd.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    NA? What's that? /Roll of 1 in knowledge (abbreviations).

    Anyway, another favorite of mine these days is the zombie dude. Just get zombies as fast as you can, get vladimir's, maybe Cuirass, and kill all their towers. It's the ultimate pusher, even before any of the mentioned items. Start at middle, preferably with a good ranged, and then just push, push, push until you get the tower, and then go do the same on other lanes. Has worked wonders for me - melee enemies are easy prey for him, and you can use the zombies to harass ranged enemies pretty well.

    My focus on game is on the enemy heroes. I can't be bothered to last-hit or deny much, except on towers, but I'm big on harassing and hero-killing, especially with ranged heros. My weak side is when I'm alone with a melee versus 1-2 ranged enemies, although depending on their skill and heros - and mine - I may be able to get at them properly at 6-7 levels. Or I'll just call a gank or move on to a different lane.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    Actually, -em games last just as long as regular games, from what I've seen. You just reach lategame faster, but the overall game time is still around the same.
    If the team are evenly matched yes, I once played a EM that lasted almost 2 hours because, even if it was a 5vs2, the other team just wasnt able to destroy our base. My partner had treant as a matter of fact (with refresher) which is mainly why it lasted so long. If they ever attacked alone or with two people, I easely killed them with my nightslalker (even during the day, I was really fed) while every team attack failed because of treant ult. They finally just gave up and all left. They would have probably won after a while, especially since they actually managed to destroy top barracks, but it was still so cool to win a 2vs5. Even now, I still wonder why I didnt save the freaking replay of that game, I mean I saved some replay where I lost badly but not my best game ever? Thats stupid.

    But usually, an em game last between 30 minutes and 50 minutes so yeah, it usually take much less time then a real game. I think I play as much em as real game. They are both just as fun so, most of the time, I dont even check if a game is em or not before joining, as long as its RD or AR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    NA? What's that? /Roll of 1 in knowledge (abbreviations).
    Nerubian Assassin. Anyway I gotta say I never understood why some people ban hero. This game is actually really balanced. It just seems to me that some people never found a strategy to counter this hero and therefore think hes overpowered. Any hero has a few counter-hero that can kill him easely. Especially Warlock, I really dont understand why people ban him so often because, even if he destroy tower, he usually feed the other team so much it doesnt matter (at least, thats what happened in every game I played.) Hes a support hero after all so hes really usefull in a team with two tanks in front of him but in a duel he usually lose badly against anyone.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-08-29 at 11:16 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Nerubian Assassin. He has been banned a lot recently in leagues, because of the great ganking potential he has, the fact that he can shut off most jungling carries, and how much countering him can cost in wards. But I wasnt aware of that change tho.

    Orbwalking is very useful, as Poison_Fish stated. Another hero not mentionned is Enchantress. Orb walking help get that small extra damage when harassing, moving back right after you fire. That animation canceling is also quite useful when casting regular spells. Some heros have a pretty scary animation after casting their spells (Crystal Maiden users, beware); so hitting another command right after you cast your spell really help, canceling the useless animation (CM waving her staff for minutes, for exemple).

    Getting refresher with Rooftrellen is the way to go, yea. Tree is very ultimate-dependent, and having your ulti that much often available help him so much. And btw, I'm not that sure getting DPS items (such as hyperstone) for him is that great, especially as first item. It's much more important to have your ulti more often in team battles ready and relying on your teamates to kill our opponents than having dmg yourself so that you can get one kill when you ulti. That's it, if you are playing a team games and not playing Tree to score the most kills (which he is very bad at).

    Warlock is awesome. Unharassable early game, one of the best attack animation, can harass very well and heal teamates in a double lane, an ulti that is awesome in clashes and then as good to push and take down towers. I agree that the slow sucks (I almost never get it before 22-25 and then even less use it), but the rest makes up for it.

    I haven't really played Undying so I can't say much. IMO it can work vs a lane without AoE, but I'm not sure it would always work well vs a good team. But that's prolly only me not liking early push strats that much.

    Depending in the laning, yea, it's sometimes much better to focus on early harass than denying. Last hitting should always be a priority tho. Not as much that you can't stay in your lane, but the income you get for last hits is nothing to frown upon. (well I guess that's mostly appliable to non-em games, since in em better last hitting benefits you not as much). And if you are a melee vs 2 ranged, you are pretty much forced to stay back and don't do much, getting harassed/denied/out-last hitted and stuff. With a few Melee heroes exceptions (Magnus/Brood/Rexxar), there is only a few Melee heroes that can solo well, and especially vs a double lane. You should probably let any other ranged hero get the solo than get owned bad in a lane. But meh, in pubs you can't really rely on that. It always make me cringe when I play pubs and I see someone like a Mortred, a Spectre or any weak early game melee hero cry out "BOT SOLO" or something like that.

    Edit: About the banning of heroes, well, no, the game isn't balanced. At higher level at least. There is no way that you can have 90+ heroes and have it all perfectly balanced. Even WC3, with is 4 playing races, isn't balanced. It's good, yes, but there is always some small matchups imbalances etc. So, at higher level, only a few of those 90+ heroes are really viable, with like 8-10 heroes (I'm really throwing a number there, but it's prolly around that) that are way better and should almost be picked every game in order to have the best team possible. So by banning heroes (normally people ban heroes that have counters to which line-up they will be using, or simply overpowered heroes, like BM, Warlock, TB, etc), it ensures that you won't always see the same 10 heroes in a competitive DotA game. By removing the top ones, you create a pool of viable heroes much more bigger, since the balance is way better around the midly good heroes.
    Last edited by Cynan Machae; 2008-08-29 at 11:21 AM.
    Cynan


  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
    NA? What's that? /Roll of 1 in knowledge (abbreviations).
    As Querzis said, NA stands for Nerubian Assassin, who, along with Zeus the Lord of Olympia and Rexxar the Beastmaster used to be banned every single high-level game. They were just that overpowered in the old metagame with the 2k for immortaliy Kelen's Dagger of Escape.

    After the shift in the metagame towards farming and carrying instead of ganking due to the Kelen's Dagger nerf, Zeus and Rexxar are still banned every single game, but NA is surprisingly underused when he's not banned. I just find it funny, considering how he used to be banned every single game.

    Maybe people've just got used to playing without him :P

    Anyway, another favorite of mine these days is the zombie dude. Just get zombies as fast as you can, get vladimir's, maybe Cuirass, and kill all their towers. It's the ultimate pusher, even before any of the mentioned items. Start at middle, preferably with a good ranged, and then just push, push, push until you get the tower, and then go do the same on other lanes. Has worked wonders for me - melee enemies are easy prey for him, and you can use the zombies to harass ranged enemies pretty well.
    I find that Undying is far, far better jungling as compared to laning. Granted, you have pretty good lane control due to your intense survivability, but you can't really attack the enemy or really control gold flow properly if he's a smart. Pushing is, in general a bad idea due to how it opens you up for ganks. So what Undying does in a lane is generally sit there and farm stuff with his high base damage, even while letting the enemy farm.

    The problem with that strategy is that the Dragon Knight does all that, and better (doensn't need to push, insane survivability, becomes ranged at level 6, strong carry power lategame).

    Seeing as you can jungle right from level 1, and that your laning benefits are minimal, I find jungling and coming out with an early sheepstick to be a better choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynan Machae View Post
    Getting refresher with Rooftrellen is the way to go, yea. Tree is very ultimate-dependent, and having your ulti that much often available help him so much. And btw, I'm not that sure getting DPS items (such as hyperstone) for him is that great, especially as first item. It's much more important to have your ulti more often in team battles ready and relying on your teamates to kill our opponents than having dmg yourself so that you can get one kill when you ulti. That's it, if you are playing a team games and not playing Tree to score the most kills (which he is very bad at).
    I agree that Refresher is, most of the time, the best item for Tree. But a word of caution: it you find yourself going against Nerubian Assassin, or Omniknight/Warlock/Atropos and other Necronomicon carriers, you want to invest in 2 nulls before you complete your refresher. Tree has *just* enough mana at level 17 to cast Nature's Guise, Overgrowth, Refresh, and Overgrowth again. One mana burn will scuttle your strategy.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Dota anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    I prefer Dark Seer + Weaver. 522 ms Ion Shell Carrier



    Actually, -em games last just as long as regular games, from what I've seen. You just reach lategame faster, but the overall game time is still around the same.

    *


    On another note, I've been observing an interesting trend in the Tournament metagame lately.

    The previous Holy Trinity of Banned Heroes has been disturbed. While Beast and Zeus are still banned, the metagame has shifted in such a fashion that NA is actually not 100% banned anymore. And the funny thing is, people are *not* playing him! That's just plain wierd.
    Except Darkseer is such a bad hero ;_; as far as baby sitting and support go. Don't get me wrong, he has some decent abilities, but he's quite easy to take out with one or two disables.

    In terms of the metagame, it's actually shifted a bit towards late game. So your seeing more support heroes. Favorites include: Lich, Omniknight, Shadow Priest, chen, and of course warlock. But then, warlock has always been top tier and is banned often. As well as Chen was picked a lot to jungle and come in with 3 centaurs for ganks.

    What makes me happy, Puck is getting picked a lot. Puck is awesome. Here are some statistics from MYM games MYM's pick stats. Note the lack of techies, poor techies, :-P.

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