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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Hi,

    In the third-party module "Gorgoldand's Gauntlet", there is a fun construct called a coin dragon made of copper and gold coins, with a coin breath attack. That was CR 4 (google the module for stats.) Fun, because the monster is the treasure.

    I have beefed it up to make it a bit more challenging for my party (5 characters, 3rd-4th level). My gut tells me that this a challenging, but not impossible, encounter for the party (the beastie takes a lot of punishment but isn't particularly lethal.) I figure this is CR 6-7 but am unsure. What do you think?

    In front of you is a strange creature. It is vaguely draconic or lizard like, about 7-8 feet long, and taller than a man. It has beady but bright, gemlike red eyes outlined in silver. Well armored, it is covered in small round copper and gold scales roughly an inch across. It opens its mouth—its tongue is covered in the same scales, but in silver—and lets out a frightful roar that sounds like great gears grinding together, the clash of cymbals, the sound of pewter dishes being thrown together in a scullery sink all at once.


    Greater Coin Dragon : CR ?; Medium-Size Construct (7 ft. long);
    HD 5d10; hp 29; Init +0; Spd 40 ft.; AC 15 (+5 natural); Atk +6
    melee (1d6+2, tail slap or wing slap); Full Atk both tail and wing slaps; SA breath weapon; SQ construct, eye of shielding, eye of spell resistance, damage reduction 10/+1, resistances; AL N; SV Fort +0,
    Ref +0, Will -5; Str 14, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1.

    SA—Breath Weapon (Su): The coin dragon can breathe a 20-foot cone of coins and gems that deals 1d8+2 points of damage to anyone in the area of effect; a successful Reflex save (DC 14) halves the damage. The breath weapon is usable only once every other round. (The coins and gems used are reabsorbed into the body during the off round.)

    SQ—Construct: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, disease, and similar effects. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.

    SQ—Resistances (Ex): The coin dragon has acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance 5.

    SQ—Eye of Shielding (magic missile.). The coin dragon's left "eye" is a rough red spinel inset in a silver amulet that functions as a brooch of shielding. It can absorb 57 points of damage from magic missiles. It can be retrieved after the dragon is destroyed. (Value when charges spent 15 gp)

    SQ—Spell Resistance. The coin dragon's left eye is similar to the right eye and gives it Spell 10. This gem becomes useless after the coin dragon is destroyed (Value 15 gp)

    Constructed of 5,7XX copper pieces, 2XX silver pieces (tongue and claws) and 5,2XX gold pieces 16 gems (various worth).

    Thanks,

    C.
    Last edited by chevalier; 2008-09-08 at 02:57 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    You're forgetting the bonus Hit Points from being a Medium-sized Construct.

    Plus, in 3.5, it's just Damage Reduction 10/magic.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2008-09-08 at 03:01 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    You should give it the ablity to take in new treasure that way it could age and gain new ablities or become stronger. but u might have to bump it CR to fit it in. if i ever dm for my group i might make them fight this and have it kill off a few them or hope that it kills some of them.

    I would hate to see one of these have the awaken construct spell cast on them.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Quote Originally Posted by D Knight View Post
    You should give it the ablity to take in new treasure that way it could age and gain new ablities or become stronger.
    Advancement: by assimilation.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Quote Originally Posted by fractic View Post
    Advancement: by assimilation.
    Mwahahahahahaha Nice plan.

    Advancement: alternate attack form: +7 bite 1d8+4,


    SQ: bite a +1 longsword lodged in the mouth forms the basis for this creatures bite attack. (scaling: alter weapon stats and to hit bonus as appropriate for party)

    alternatives: claw attacks (daggers or swords), spell-like abilities (wands, rods or staves or other items within the body of the dragon.

    Suggestion: randomly generate the treasure items this creature is constructed of, the more useful the treasure would be the more powerful the dragon is.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Quote Originally Posted by fractic View Post
    Advancement: by assimilation.
    Awesome.

    Also, this looks fun. Only question I have influencing CR is; can it fly?

    I think this is about CR6-7, depending on the above answer, as you said.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Personally, I'd give it restastance against Sonic, but take away it's acid resistance. Instead, when Acid is used on it, you subtract some amount from the treasure at the end. Say 10g for ever point of acid damage? Maybe?

    Also, if you have the types of players I do, they are constantly dropping weapons to draw new ones. Have the dragon start assimilating the dropped items, or even give it Improved Disarm to assimilate the PCs weapons. It'd make the PCs angry for two seconds, but they'll love the encounter.

    Oh, you could even give it minions for fun. Taking stuff throughout the dungeon or wherever they are.

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Lord Henry--No, it doesn't fly. Thanks for the input as to the CR, this was what my question was.

    I think giving it daggers for teeth/claws is a fun idea, but a little more than I personally want to get into...although, I think the idea of it being able to attract dropped weapons (of metal) is pretty cool.

    Maybe it also attracts any coins on the PCs that aren't secured somehow? That would cause for a frantic battle...

    Removing the acid resistance might be a good idea, a sort of "chink in the armor" so to speak, but this was a feature of the original.

    Thanks,

    C.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    For once, the Kleptomaniac Hero is actually fully justified. The heroes have to be sure to secure as much of the dungeon's money as they possibly can to prevent the already advanced coin dragon from gaining any more power!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Or maybe the Klepto would just make the fight more difficult, by bringing the loot to the dragon.
    Maybe the PCs find various loots around the dungeon, and when they reach the final chamber, they see a pile of loot. What looks like a dragon's hoard... BECOMES THE DRAGON! It sucks up everything that isn't bolted down, making disarm checks against anything metal that the PCs are holding, including swords and junk.
    Hopefully, the had some back-ups in a bag o' holdin'.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    Burley Warlock says what I thought precisely - your party should walk up to this creature thinking it's a mound of valuata, unguarded. Fiddle with the story a while - I would make rumors of a curse, or surround it with traps, or something similar. Make it take ten minutes between them seeing the pile of coins and actually being able to touch it.
    Then they actually get to it, and it gets up and firehoses pennies all over them! Man, that's a great image.

    If this is in a mecha-style setting, this is even better. Oh, look, unattended metal, let's gather it up.

    ... editing because I realized I didn't answer the OP...
    A quick scan says CR 3 or 4 to me. There are a lot of resistances for a CR 4 creature - it's pretty much "hit me with magic weapons or be sad" with this creature.
    I would change the stats around some - take away the resistances but replace them with regeneration 5 ONLY WHEN the coin dragon is touching a significant amount of loose metal. It reintegrates coins into itself, and drips the excess over its max HP whenever it's at full health.
    Last edited by nargbop; 2008-09-10 at 10:55 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Help me assign a challenge rating to the improved "Coin Dragon"

    [QUOTE=nargbop;4887980]Burley Warlock says what I thought precisely - your party should walk up to this creature thinking it's a mound of valuata, unguarded. Fiddle with the story a while - I would make rumors of a curse, or surround it with traps, or something similar. Make it take ten minutes between them seeing the pile of coins and actually being able to touch it.
    Then they actually get to it, and it gets up and firehoses pennies all over them! Man, that's a great image.
    [QUOTE]

    This is how it is originally described in the module: the adventurers running Gorgoldand's gauntlet see the coins, think "gimmee gimmee!" and then the dragon forms.

    In my current campaign, I am stuck between an encounter that would go that way, and having the adventurers first encounter it as a dragon, because the adventure hook that has led them into their lair is that there is a gold dragon there that has attacked a local child and some adventurers that checked in on it, and why is a metallic (good?) dragon behaving in this way? Then they stumble on the dragon, from the description may very well believe it is an actual gold dragon, and freak out about the ostensibly impossible encounter. (Until coins start falling from it.) Good times.

    Either way is fun.

    CLW

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