The Shroedinger Challenge

[Allene]

This is a gaming thread for the Shroedinger Wizard challenge.

[Akimbo]

Okay, so for Fighter McFighty, I think the best possible spells are:

Blackguard: Level 1, Resurgence twice. A good spell relatively speaking, and if he is capable, he can touch himself (hahaha) and therefore give himself a new saving throw, in case he natural ones something. I mean there really aren't a lot of options here.

And for Hexblade, his one spell should probably be Entropic Warding.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

So people can see it, the sheet is here.
Wizard: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=79693

[AKA_Bait]

I'm replying here, rather than the other thread. What alignment is our cleric? There are quite a few better spells out there than what's on the list thus far.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Pick whatever alignment and domains you want, people. I can't make such decisions because I know what's coming up in the encounters.

[AKA_Bait]

Any chance I could see the cleric build thus far?

[Allene]

I'd just like some clarification on what the Cleric is actually going to look like.

[AKA_Bait]

I'd just like some clarification on what the Cleric is actually going to look like.

Same here. I'm a little unclear as to just what kind of cleric this is going to be. I feel like for the test to have merit then the othe members of the party should be pretty heavily optimized as well. Nearly any casting class can outshine the rest of the party if the caster is heavily optimized but the party is not.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Well, the cleric is already fairly optimised. Just pick the spells and remember the cleric's original goal: support. I'm a big fun of the nessecity of combat healing. BTW, multiple nightsticks don't stack; explained in the original thread.

Someone make a skillmonkey please...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Well, the cleric is already fairly optimised. Just pick the spells and remember the cleric's original goal: support. I'm a big fun of the nessecity of combat healing. BTW, multiple nightsticks don't stack; explained in the original thread.

Someone make a skillmonkey please...

Nightsticks have been debated a thousand times. They grant the Extra Turning feat, a feat that specifically stacks with itself. It's unclear by RAW, so I recommend we have Lord Silvanos make the call. He's usually right, and unbiased.

[Allene]

I'm going to work on the Cleric's list of spells/feats/domains.

They are just suggestions from a biased party, so take them as you will, but they are not going to include DMM anything. Though if I was going to it would be DMM Chain, which combined with the Incantatrix's Cooperative metamagic would allow for up to 17 Chained Persisted spells.

And out of curiosity, what is "Evocation Focus"?

[Allene]

Alignment: Lawful Evil
Worship: Concept
Domains: Luck, Travel, Trickery, Baator.

Feats: Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Extend Spell
Chain Spell
Quicken Spell
Domain Spontaneity: Baator
Domain Spontaneity: Travel

[AKA_Bait]

Might I suggest Reach Spell and DMM Reach? It makes those touch spells much easier to deliver in combat and isn't super cheezy. Combine with Chain Spell and it can get very useful.

[Allene]

Might I suggest Reach Spell and DMM Reach? It makes those touch spells much easier to deliver in combat and isn't super cheezy. Combine with Chain Spell and it can get very useful.

You may be right, I wasn't really taking that into account because I hadn't actually started on spells, but that's probably a good idea.

I guess replace the Domain Spontaneity feats with Reach, and DMM Reach.

I also think that we should drop the cloaks of resistance and use Extended Superior Resistance the day before on both characters instead.

[AKA_Bait]

You may be right, I wasn't really taking that into account because I hadn't actually started on spells, but that's probably a good idea.

It's worked out very well for my current high level cleric. Makes combat much safer since he's not a CoDzilla.

I guess replace the Domain Spontaneity feats with Reach, and DMM Reach.

Quite possibly. I might drop Quicken and just get a rod if it's really needed and keep the Travel one. Not sure about that though because...

I also think that we should drop the cloaks of resistance and use Extended Superior Resistance the day before on both characters instead.

I can't agree or disagree since the only part of the build I've ever even seen is the list of feats above. I have no clue what items, stats, etc. this fellow has.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Just post the list when you finalise it and I'll alter the character sheet.

[Allene]

Alignment: Lawful Evil
Worship: Concept
Domains: Luck, Travel, Time, Inquisition.

Feats: Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Extend Spell
Chain Spell
Reach Spell
Extra Turning
Domain Spontaneity: Travel
DMM Reach
Flaw: Vulnerable.
Domain Bonus: Improved Init.

Items: As on Character sheet except:
+1 Defending Morningstar (Extended GMW cast the day before)
No Cloak of Resistance, instead Extended Superior Resistance the day before, also the same to the fight for another 25,000gp for him.
Extended Magic Vestment the day before on shield, fighters shield, and fighters shirt

Also add GMW to Fighters bow.

So Fighter has 25,000gp to spend and cleric has 153,000gp left to spend.

Also, both characters saves increase by 1, and the fighter gets +5 AC all the time, +4 more in rounds he doesn't use his bow. Cleric gets +4 AC all the time. The Cleric also gets +4 to init for the time domain bonus feat.

The Cleric should also have an Orb with Deeper Darkness cast on it, the he carries inside a bag. And a Contingency, not sure what though, don't really use it myself too much. All four of us should have a Renewal Pact on as well.

Probably buy 1 nightstick (the way we are running it) and a bunch of Beads of Karma. Also, a Wand of Restoration. Not sure what else to buy.

Spells:

Spoiler

Show

Level 0
Amanuensis (x2)
Detect Magic (x2)
Create Water (x2)

lvl 1
Domain: True Strike
Sanctuary
Entropic Warding
Protection From Chaos
Conviction (x2)
Ebon Eyes (x3)

lvl 2
Domain: Locate Object
Augury
Silence
Insight of Good Fortune (x3)
Calm Emotions
Resist Energy (x2)

lvl 3
Domain: Haste
Checkmate's Light
Chain of Eyes
Ghost Touch Weapon
Daylight
Searing Light
Sonorous Hum
Wind Wall
Mass Resist Energy

lvl 4
Domain: Freedom of Movement
Dismissal
Dimensional Anchor
Assay Resistance
Death Ward
Giant Vermin
Recitation
Delay Death

lvl 5
Domain: Spell Resistance
Spell Resistance (x2)
Curse of Ill Fortune, Mass
Chained Insight of Good Fortune
Condemnation
Revivify
Planeshift

lvl 6
Domain: Mislead
Banishment
Chained Dispel Magic
Greater Dispel Magic
Algid Enhancement
Heal (x2)

lvl 7
Domain: Dictum
Radiant Assault
Wretched Blight
Destruction
Chained Assay Resistance
Chained Dimensional Anchor

lvl 8
Domain: Foresight
Chain Dispel (the spell, not the metafeat)
Lion's Roar (x2)
Greater Planar Ally
Reached Chained Death Ward

lvl 9
Domain: Time Stop
Conjure Ice Beast 9 (Colossal Spider or several Rocs, Engulf)
Miracle
Mass Heal
Implosion
Summon Elemental Monolith

Oh, and Belial, could I get some rulings:

1) Trueseeing vs Non detection?
2) Trueseeing vs Mindblank?
3-4) Devil's natural Trueseeing "[Devil's name] continuously use true seeing, as the spell (caster level [Devil's HD usually])." vs both above.
5) Trueseeing requires a CL check to penetrate Superior Invisibility, but I've seen people rule that Devil's natural Trueseeing auto passes. Are you going to have it roll checks? Or auto pass?

Just want some quick clarifications.

[Allene]

Okay, I now have the full Cleric spell list done, domains and feats, suggestions for item changes, items and spells that we should already have on us from the Cleric and a few other things.

I've also asked Belial for a series of rulings on Trueseeing, for clarification purposes.

Anyone want to give advice, or help me with item choices, or suggest spell changes, or build a skill monkey is welcome.

I can't build all 4 characters (or run all four) so I need at least one person to step forward and help out here.

[Douglas]

Do we have a GM for this yet? If not, I think I could do it.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

1) Trueseeing vs Non detection?

CL checks as normal.

2) Trueseeing vs Mindblank?

Mind Blank only stops spells detecting/influencing the mind, emotions and thoughts, plus scrying. True Seeing is not stopped.

3-4) Devil's natural Trueseeing "[Devil's name] continuously use true seeing, as the spell (caster level [Devil's HD usually])." vs both above.

Devil Trueseeing is an SU ability so Nondetection does not stop it (only stops devices and spells). And I think more demons have true seeing than devils.

5) Trueseeing requires a CL check to penetrate Superior Invisibility, but I've seen people rule that Devil's natural Trueseeing auto passes. Are you going to have it roll checks? Or auto pass?

True Seeing penetrates Superior Invisibility normally. I checked the Spell Compedium just now.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Final Character Sheets here. Additional stuff such as memorised spell lists, chosen spells, active buffs and so on should go to a spoiler in the end of your post for ease of reference.

Skillmonkey: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=79888
The entire spell list is not chosen. Add whatever spells you want.

Warrior: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=79886
Remember to use the fierce enhancement to transfer dexterity bonus to bow damage from AC when needed.

Cleric: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=79887
Feats have been changed to follow player preference. Memorised spells should remain in spoiler under every post for ease of reference.

Wizard: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=79693
Remember to add size penalties (-2 AB/AC, -8 hide/move silently I think)

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Items: As on Character sheet except:
+1 Defending Morningstar (Extended GMW cast the day before)
No Cloak of Resistance, instead Extended Superior Resistance the day before, also the same to the fight for another 25,000gp for him.
Extended Magic Vestment the day before on shield, fighters shield, and fighters shirt. Also add GMW to Fighters bow. So Fighter has 25,000gp to spend and cleric has 153,000gp left to spend.

No need for GMW on fighter's bow; arcane archer already gives +5.
On the Defending Morningstar, not a bad idea.
On the cloaks of resistance: bad idea. The superior resistance spell can be dispelled or surpressed by a Globe or similar stuff. Trust me, you don't want your save bonuses easily dispellable or surpressable when you're fighting the BBEG.

fighter gets +5 AC all the time, +4 more in rounds he doesn't use his bow

Actually, +9 AC all the time. Shield is animated so it works wether you use off hand or not.

Do we have a GM for this yet? If not, I think I could do it.

Can you play the fighter and choose some spells for the skillmonkey? Playing the fighter shouldn't have much impact on how the challenges turn out and the really important stuff for the skillmonkey are already set.

[Tehnar]

Seems this fight died? Anyone planning on taking he role of the wizard now that Akimbo/Allene got banned?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Wait, what?

*looks more carefully*

Crap. Anyone want to take the role of wizard then?