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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    fendrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Hmm.. the fool seems less insane now, and more... resigned.

    "A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop."
    Almost sounds as if he were talking about Sizemore and Parson, but how would he know that Sizemore was in the tunnels?

    "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool does from his friends."
    You know, I think it's too late. Look at Stanley's face. Look at dwagon faces. Firm resolve, grimacing, as if bearing down on something ugly, but determined to succeed.

    Stanley is attacking someone. Whether it be the Transylvito forces (likely), Charlie's Archons (unlikely), or the coalition column (possible) stil remains to be seen.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Same thing happened with the dwagon fortress. Keep the main plan hidden until you need to show how it gets booped.

    But this time, Parson is going to adapt the plan and win. He's now a complete perfect warlord, ya know.
    Dibs on his dice.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Specialty scout units may be an excption to the autoengage rule -- the Marbit scout stack hit by Sizemore's golems and the bat scout that found the dwagons both seem to be running rather than actively engaging the enemy.
    There is no need for an exception to that here;
    - Gobwin knob is all one hex since it requires zero move to shift forces around between the tunnels, wall and garrison.
    - There are warlords in the same hex, although not the same stack.
    - The lead gobwin is not retreating, but attacking via the strategy of "lure into traps" :).

    Note: The Gobwins are maneuvering around inside the garrison zone which, being a subset of a single hex, is all the same hex. So it costs no movement to wander around down there; they can move travel as far as they need to, provided they remain inside the city.

    A strategy of "flee" is perfectly legitimate; bat*21 was using it to gain a little more time to report on the enemy, even though it had no chance of escaping.
    The marbit scout stack that got NWOBHMed by the golems was following the same strategy as the gobwins are about to do as well; fall back and set off traps. The difference being that Sizemore makes far better traps than marbit scouts do, and Parson is making the risk lower by sending just a single scout and having lots of backup.

    PS:
    The possibility that a warlord leader is required OR having a special scout ability is still viable, but I would like to apply occam's razor here, and say it is just another combat strategy. (A strategy that results in you dealing very little damage to the enemy in order to gain 'time'. Normally a commodity of little value since move points are the important thing strategically, but if you've got non-move tasks to accomplish while under attack, 'time' can be critical.)
    Last edited by Suicide Junkie; 2008-09-12 at 07:25 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I think there's a Sane Jack trapped in Crazy Jack. It's a VERY interesting literary device to confine him to speaking in quotations. That allows Sane Jack a limited ability to answer Parson's questions, but he's ignored by Stanley who thinks it's just ranting.

    Sane Jack is, of course, at the "bottom of the well" - the "well" being his own mind.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by Suicide Junkie View Post
    - There are warlords in the same hex, although not the same stack.
    The autoengage rule works by stacks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Parson, Klog 4
    Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals
    A strategy of "flee" is perfectly legitimate
    If fleeing counts as an engagement strategy, the autoattack rule is pretty much meaningless.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I believe Jack is leading the Tool into the trap. Maybe the break of the spell did not only ruin his sanity but also canceled the effect of the loyalty, or reduced the value of this stat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Blade View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I have a solution to those quotes: Stanley is the fool, and Parson is the wise man. The mountain top was the table, the "bottom of a well" is the lack of table. The "friends" are all of Stanley's units, and enemies should be obvious. (In case they aren't: the people trying to kill Stanley.)
    -"A wise man can see more from a bottom of a well, than a fool can from a mountain top."
    Parson understands more about the coalition now, then Stanley did when he had the table.
    -"A wise man gets more use from his enemies, than a fool from his friends."
    Parson is manipulating the coalition, (and uncroaking their units), while Stanley is getting nothing from his extremely powerful friends because he left them.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I've been reading this comic for a long time, and this is the first time I've posted. :) This is what I think the Fool's statements mean.

    "A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop."

    Possible translation: I'm crazy, but even though I'm crazy I understand.

    "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool does from his friends."

    Possible translation: Stanley isn't going to be of much help. (Notice the Fool is looking at Stanley with what appears to be an expression of worry or concern).

    To break it down further... The Fool is the Wise Man. The well is his madness. The "Fool" in his statement isn't anyone in particular, and the Mountaintop is sanity.

    The second statement is simply cynicism, to some degree. Your allies aren't necessarily good friends, or all that helpful.
    Last edited by Cinqueda; 2008-09-12 at 08:15 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Here's my translation of Jack's statements:

    Parson: Jack... Snipe? This is Lord Hamster, your Chief Warlord. I'm calling to help you, Jack.

    Jack: "O, tempt not a desperate man... nuncle!"
    Jack, translated: I don't believe you can help me.

    Parson: Jack? Can you understand at all?
    Jack: "A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop."
    Jack, translated: I am impaired, but I still understand more than a fool does. (In context the "fool" could be either Stanley or Parson, but it probably Stanley. From Parson's reaction, however, Parson isn't sure if he's just been insulted.)

    Parson: Um, okay. Guess we should wrap this up. If you do snap out of it, try and convince the Tool to come back to the city, okay Jack? Okay? Jack?
    Jack: But a wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.
    Jack, translated: Are you sure you want him back? He just gets in the way because he's useless. (People have been assuming the wise man in this sentence is Jack, leading people to believe Jack is being disloyal. I disagree. I think the wise man in this case is Parson. So does Parson, as indicated by his reaction:)

    Parson: I hear ya. Maggie, break the connection.

    Will Jack be able to snap out of it? Probably when Jamie runs out of proverbs and quotations to use! Will Jack try to get Stanley to turn around? I think he will. Will he succeed? I don't know.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    "A wise man......"

    Stanley is still Jack's Boss. By the rules of the game, Jack can't harm him directly or indirectly. Unless, of course, he is a fool (as in mad).

    My theory - Jack actually snapped out of it. And he realised where he is and what he does. He maybe dislikes Stanley (for various possible reasons) yet he knows he will have to obey to his orders and do all it takes to protect him. But he doesn't want to.

    So he keeps the "fool" act a little longer - his riddle answers do convey some messages - he plans to stay "fool" as long as he can. This way Stanley won't give him orders and his "enemies" (Transylvito in this case) will help him more then what his "friends" (Parson or Stanley) can by, maybe, defeating stanley and freeing him

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Are they shouting out the name of one of my (homeland's) neighbor country's international bargain-price self-assembled furniture manufacturer and retailer giant?

    That's...
    that would be
    special.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesilasi View Post
    And of course, the unsound effect IKEA of the gobwins' charge is "Ingvar Kamprad Elmtaryd Agunnaryd", the Swedish home furnishings retailer.
    Would that be the sound of the tables turning, or a sign that Ansom will have to lie in the bed that he made? (dodges pun police)
    My evil dreamteam:

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    There is no need for an exception to that here;
    - Gobwin knob is all one hex since it requires zero move to shift forces around between the tunnels, wall and garrison.
    - There are warlords in the same hex, although not the same stack.
    - The lead gobwin is not retreating, but attacking via the strategy of "lure into traps" :).
    of they city,
    It's simpler then that.

    As pointed out in Klog 4, as Chief Warlord Parson's leadership bonus extends to all units "of [his] capital." If we interpret that to mean "within the city itself," and given that Klog 11 states that for combat purposes the tunnels are an intrinsic part of the city, it's not unreasonable to suggest that all GK units in the tunnels no matter how they are divided into stacks are assumed to be "led" by Parson and therefore eligible to engage or not on his orders This however does not apply to Webinar or Ansom, as they are not operating within their ow city. It's a powerful advantage to city defense, but defensive advantages are not at all uncommon in such games, otherwise sieges become trivial.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Yes... what with knocking down walls in one turn being possible with enough conventional non-supra siege.
    *sigh* rpg's really make such rushes against most sort of defenses necessary too often (not just in fantasy). Nothing like sitting outside a wall or camping an ac defended site with magic-capable people hoarded up inside.
    Last edited by Moechi_Vill; 2008-09-12 at 10:08 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    of they city,
    It's simpler then that.

    As pointed out in Klog 4, as Chief Warlord Parson's leadership bonus extends to all units "of [his] capital." If we interpret that to mean "within the city itself," and given that Klog 11 states that for combat purposes the tunnels are an intrinsic part of the city, it's not unreasonable to suggest that all GK units in the tunnels no matter how they are divided into stacks are assumed to be "led" by Parson and therefore eligible to engage or not on his orders This however does not apply to Webinar or Ansom, as they are not operating within their ow city. It's a powerful advantage to city defense, but defensive advantages are not at all uncommon in such games, otherwise sieges become trivial.
    Bingo! I'm positive they count as led because Parson is leading them, thus the autoattack rule is meaningless.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    IKEA!!!
    hehehe
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf von Ehrwal View Post
    Maybe I oversee something, but aren't these gobwins stacks without a warlord? Shouldn't such stacks autoattack? I havn't read a exception for scouts.
    Gobwin warlords in the scout stacks, duh.
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    If the players figure out and try to stop this from occuring, the wizard instantly crafts a HUGE mound of quarterstaves and clubs to obscure himself before teleporting out.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    No evidence for a gobwin warlord, is there? Just gobwin infantry
    Dibs on his dice.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I personally get the felling that Jack is now quite sane. but don't want Stanly to know that. Therefore, he speaks in riddles. Jack might be planning revenge on Stanley. He has plenty of reasons to hate him.

    "A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop."
    I think Jack is saying that he does indeed understand. That he, Jack, can understand better despite his "condition" than Parson can from his mountaintop.

    "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool does from his friends."
    My initial idea was that Jack get more use out of Stanley then Stanley gets out of Jack. That is, that Jack is now using Stanley. But maybe the wise man is Parson, as some suggested. The fool is surely Stanley.

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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Two more things...

    transsylvito has a lot of warlords, but only a few bats as cannonfodder. Do not underestimate Stanley in a fight. He may be an idiot, but he climbed up through the military ranks. He knows combat. He has dwagons and the top three hobgoblins. He has the Arkenhammer. He is deadly.

    And the others thing...I just noticed one of the gobwins is armed with a meathammer...? LOL.
    Bad to the Bone!
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptC View Post
    No evidence for a gobwin warlord, is there? Just gobwin infantry
    He asks the Gobwins to lend a few warlords offscreeen so their scouts don't get booped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    If the players figure out and try to stop this from occuring, the wizard instantly crafts a HUGE mound of quarterstaves and clubs to obscure himself before teleporting out.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Completely unnecessary.

    First, single gobwin scouts are scouts and designed to die. No initiative needed to begin with.

    Second, a game mechanic to give them initiative already exists. There are several warlords and casters in Gobwin Knob, that can arguably lend initiative to units in their hex.

    Third, it would be very unfair to list the contents of the army and then "change it offscreen". I have the same objections to new units being popped without it being explicitly mentioned in the story. I find any theory about any units not found in Klog #7 to be very implausible.
    Last edited by CaptC; 2008-09-12 at 10:44 AM.
    Dibs on his dice.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    Parson rocks, and I believe soon...so will Jack.

    "Know yourself and know your enemy", Ansom doens't know either.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    To me it seems very clear that the Fool is, well, the fool mentioned in his statements. Parson, the Chief Warlord, the Protagonist, the smartest and most clever guy we've seen, is the wise man.

    "A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop."

    Translation: You came into this world knowing nothing, yet you're still rocking. I'm now sane and atop a dwagon and I have no clue what's going on (perhaps because I was previously insane).

    "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool does from his friends."

    Translation: You're negotiating well with Charlie and playing Ansom like a fiddle, and even though you've asked me to prevail upon the Tool (on the same side, even if not quite a "friend"), there's just no chance of that happening.
    Last edited by headhoncho; 2008-09-12 at 11:03 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I just want to point out for those that think Parson is a fool, there is something very Jack related that hasn't been said by him yet.

    "The fool doth think he wise, the wiseman know himself to be a fool."

    Parson after breaking his connection states: "We try things. Occasionally they even work."

    Parson recognizes his limitations and thus is truly wise, not a fool.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    i take "must engage" as "can not leave hex" so a bat can fly around in a circle on one hex forever being chased by a slow dwagon and it would count as engaging. so the scout has engaged the enemy but he can move anywhere in the hex. Or, the reson they auto engage is because no one is there to give instructions, so they just fight since that is they only thing they can do. but since they are in gobwin knob they could all count as being led by parson who gave them instructions; see a warlord, run away; see infantry, attack.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I agree, Jack refers to himself as fool in both statements.

    The first expresses bewilderment. The second expresses doubt at Stanley's pliability.

    The fool was gone before any real manipulation of enemies by Parson. Thus he's not referring to any prowess on Parson's part unless it is in the oracular fool archetype capacity. Which I'm starting to doubt he's still tapped into as his pronouncements become increasingly clear and topical.
    Last edited by Eraniverse; 2008-09-12 at 11:38 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    I'd like to think that the statements mean absolutely nothing, and that Jack is just nuts. But that kind of thing hardly ever happens. On the other hand, with Erfworld as it is, it could be utterly meaningless. (I hope so!)
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Interesting.

    New comic is up! Methinkiths that the Foolmancer is up to something in his twisted and shattered little mind.
    Last edited by Sharoth; 2008-09-12 at 11:59 AM. Reason: changing

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: 121 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 109

    What, two pages and nobody has adapted the Ikea Gobwin into an avatar? Chop chop people!
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