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2008-09-13, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
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- Central Texas
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Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
I've got a player who claims that a Soulbow using Wis instead of Dex on ranged damage, and a Shiba Protector's No Thought ability stack (along with Zen Archery and No Thought on attack rolls).
I'm almost positive stuff doesn't double-stack like that, but I want to double-check before I make a judgement call. Here's his post.
9 (BAB) + 8 (Zen Archery-WIS) + 8 (No Thought-WIS) + 1 (Weapon Focus - MindBlade/MindArrow) + 2 enhancement = 28 total for ranged attack bonus.
8 WIS (wis is used for damage bonus NOT dex, it's written under the soulbow entry) + 8 WIS (no thought) + 2 enhancement = 18 ranged damage bonus.
Shiba Protector - Oriental Adventures Page 223, under Phoenix Clan entry:
At first level, it gains No Thought, which reads: "Shiba protectors add their Wisdom modifier, if positive, to their attack and damage rolls".
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2008-09-13, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
- Enterprise, Alabama
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
I'm pretty sure that the attack rolls stack because they from different sources. Normally, it would be Dex + Wis if had just No Thought, but Zen Archery replaces Dex.
Now damage: No Thought adds Wisdom. Mind arrow page 36 of Complete Psionic does, in fact, say "plus extras damage equal to soulbow's wisdom mod"
So it seems to be Raw that he gets it twice.
BTW, you never add Dex to Damage (in 3.5), only str with a Mighty Composite Bow exist.
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2008-09-13, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Austin, TX
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
My friend and I have a blog, we write D&D stuff there: http://forgotmydice.com/
Comedian avatar by The_Stoney_One
A Guide to Commonly Misunderstood 5th Edition Rules
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2008-09-13, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
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Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
I don't have my books in front of me, so I can't render an intelligent opinion without reading the texts of both abilities.
It's 3.0 material though, so you could always disallow it if you want. For example, you don't see a lot of people investing in Iaijutsu Focus cross class, even though by RAW everyone could do it, and many builds could get a big damage bump from certain attacks with it.
Having said that, as long as he doesn't get too far ahead of the other players in terms of power, its hardly game breaking. For example, there are a wide variety of ways to ensure that you hit your enemy 95% of the time. All you need is a decent To-Hit modifier, touch attacks (Flame Blade, Fire Dagger, Wraithstrike, Spectral Weapon, Master Thrower, Pyrokineticist or its variants, etc) and deny your enemy its Dex bonus (like, a million different ways). By itself, anything that ramps up your damage per round really isn't that much of a combo. DMs can easily just add more enemies, or give them additional templates. I often prefer my characters all play optimized characters, because it makes combat far more interesting.
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2008-09-13, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Central Texas
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
I've actually got a Samurai in the same game who thrives off Iaijutsu Focus.
I just wanted to make sure everything was legal, because he's got a BAB of 6/1 at 11th level now (Taking too few levels in classes with a rogue BAB), but his to hit is 25/20.
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2008-09-13, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
- Location
- Austin, TX
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
The real question is...how does he have a wisdom of 26 at 11th level? That seems like it would be a little bit outside of WBL and such, but I could be wrong *shrug*
My friend and I have a blog, we write D&D stuff there: http://forgotmydice.com/
Comedian avatar by The_Stoney_One
A Guide to Commonly Misunderstood 5th Edition Rules
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2008-09-13, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
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Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
A +6 item is a little over half of level 11 WBL (66k), so not too unreasonable, depending on the economy of the setting.
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2008-09-13, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
- Location
- Central Texas
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
I hand out treasure like candy.
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2008-09-14, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
Well, there's your problem. Monty Haul campaigns are notoriously fun for a few sessions, before they quickly descend into brokenness as some players fully exploit their magic items and others don't. It basically multiplies the character optimization problem (consider a party with an optimized wizard and an unoptimized samurai) by two.
You may wish to force your players into the classic reboot - have them captured, put in prison, enemy sells all of their magic items off, then PCs can break out and defeat their captors, but never recover their magic items, just a huge pile of gp that adds up to the standard wealth by level.
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2008-09-14, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
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2008-09-14, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Central Texas
- Gender
Re: Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?
This campaign has been going for almost two and a half years now, from level 4 to the current general party level of 11. It's not really a problem.
I work with my players to re-balance periodically (our custom Samurai build barely resembles the class's original build), I can throw tougher monsters at them than I normally could (especially since there's 8 PCs), and every once in a while, they'll blow a lot of money on a castle or a blimp or something, as required for where they want to take the campaign next.