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    Default WoD game! Need Help!

    I am an almost complete newbe with WoD and I really want to be in this game. I've only played Vampire once and I have played requiem once. The setting of this game is Vancover, canada

    I have a Brujah character who was sired in the 1300s or 1600s. He is a knight in the modern era and sired for his tenacity and his rebellouis additude against his father and his regulation. His strength is wicked high, his stamina is the same, and his dex is slightly above poor.

    Heres the problem, I took the Hunted feat, and now one of the players is my hunter. He's a werewolf redclaw. The player as a person has been playing werewolf for a LONG time. So, I need tips to counter this. Good tips! Help me!
    My life for Nerzhul!

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Okay, is this new World of Darkness, or old World of Darkness? Just post the full name of the books you are using if you don't know.

    Now, the classic Vampire v. Werewolf gambit is not one of direct confrontation. Also, vampires always are better at getting allies together than werewolves, so use that as your strength.

    Speaking from oWoD I'd say:
    1) Find a Mage or Gangrel to pinch hit for you. Mages can kill anything if they have enough time (Hermetics are nice, but Vampires seem to get along better with Euthanatoi, and they can kill anything; Sons of Ether are fine too, since they can convert anything to silver ). Gangrels are the most capable vampire for taking Werewolves on in a straight-up fight. They can do Aggravated damage as a Protean 2(?) ability, and I think they get Potence.

    2) If you can't get either, round up a band of mortals. You have Presence, so use it! Recruit a band of para-military types who follow a code of honor modeled on your chivalric system. Then give them silvered swords and silver-loaded M16's. Ghoul the best one you can find too.

    3) Find out about the Werewolf's mundane identity, and then work from the shadows to ruin it. The fewer resources he has, the better off you are.

    4) If all else fails, max Potence and find a good silvered weapon... and then pray, 'cause you're dust, chummer.

    If this is nWoD, then the same, but more vaguely, 'cause I don't know nWoD well:
    - Other supernatural allies will serve you well.
    - They depowered werewolves, so you might be able to do a straight-up fight better. Start at range, and close to melee only when necessary.
    - Work from the shadows to destroy what you can of the werewolf's. Pollution should still work well - so dump some toxic waste on their home.
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2008-09-14 at 11:48 PM.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Well any Brujah that is 600-900 years old should be able to kill most werewolves easily. That being said, elder vampires don't unlive to be elders by directly confronting werewolves.

    Oracle had some good advice (It is protean 2 and Gangrel get fortitude, not potence) and if all else fails I would add...

    5) Find a super secure resting place, seal off the entrances, and go into torpor for 60-90 years. You wake up and there is no werewolf.
    The Historian: This DM has the history of his world written out millenniums back. It is intricate, complex, and most importantly, incredibly long. Moreover, everything your characters are doing is based on the previous history. It also tends to lead to loudmouth NPCS who will explain hundreds of years of history at a time while the players try to gouge their eardrums out with mechanical pencils.


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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElfLord View Post
    Well any Brujah that is 600-900 years old should be able to kill most werewolves easily. That being said, elder vampires don't unlive to be elders by directly confronting werewolves.

    Oracle had some good advice (It is protean 2 and Gangrel get fortitude, not potence) and if all else fails I would add...

    5) Find a super secure resting place, seal off the entrances, and go into torpor for 60-90 years. You wake up and there is no werewolf.
    Heh, true.

    So, here are the main threats you face from oWoD Werewolves:
    1) They do Aggravated Damage... all the time. You cannot soak or easily heal Agg. Damage. This is a Bad Thing.

    2) Werewolves automatically heal all non-Aggravated Damage. Only Silver, Fire, and special supernatural things do Aggravated Damage to Werewolves.

    3) Werewolves are Big and Tough in Crinos form - specifically, Bigger and Tougher than you, unless you picked up Fortitude somewhere and have 5 dots in Potence.

    4) Werewolves can shift into Astral Space by looking into any reflecting surface. You cannot follow them into this Space, and they can shift into Real Space from any reflecting surface. This is also a Bad Thing.

    Other things to look out for:
    - Metis Werewolves may have the ability to create fire at will. You are afraid of fire and it does Aggravated Damage. This is a Bad Thing.
    - Werewolves are immune to most mind-affecting powers vampires have (I think). But you're a Brujah, so you weren't going to use them anyhow.
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2008-09-15 at 12:07 AM.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Its old world of darkness.
    My life for Nerzhul!

    Join the Cult of the Damned, we have free donuts on fridays! -Bago!!!

    "There is a fine line between life and death. The thing is, I just don't give a damn." Lou

    Could use some helpful critique for my avatar that I made. Please?

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Its old world of darkness.
    Sweet, so we can help you. Well, what resources do you have? Or were you planning on facing this guy head-on?
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Resources? Gamebooks or ingame?
    My life for Nerzhul!

    Join the Cult of the Damned, we have free donuts on fridays! -Bago!!!

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    Could use some helpful critique for my avatar that I made. Please?

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Resources? Gamebooks or ingame?
    In game, please. This is WoD, not some splatbook-laden WotC system!
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Ingame, is still up for grabs I guess.


    It hasn't offically started yet, but I know whats coming around cause the ST told me. 0.0

    I was planning on confronting the guy head on (knowing that he could fling me into the wall)

    Heres the group. Its a group of 5 vampires, 5 lycans, and 1 hunter (He's the inbetween man i guess).
    The vampires are a Lesombra, Geovanni, Toreador, and one other I have no idea who he is.

    Only that redclaw is the only werewolf I know about.
    My life for Nerzhul!

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Ingame, is still up for grabs I guess.


    It hasn't offically started yet, but I know whats coming around cause the ST told me. 0.0

    I was planning on confronting the guy head on (knowing that he could fling me into the wall)

    Heres the group. Its a group of 5 vampires, 5 lycans, and 1 hunter (He's the inbetween man i guess).
    The vampires are a Lesombra, Geovanni, Toreador, and one other I have no idea who he is.

    Only that redclaw is the only werewolf I know about.
    So... you've got a party of 11 people to face down 1 werewolf? Or, well, a pack, I guess.

    If you have werewolves on your side, then you're fine. You just sit back and let any two of your lupine buddies handle things.

    If you can swing it, make your haven wherever the Lupines hang out. One of 'em can watch you during the day, and during the night everyone else has your back.

    Screw the other vamps - they're worthless to you, unless the Giovanni goes into the Spectral Path and can follow the Werewolves into the Astral.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Best way to take out a werewolf if you are a vamp, is at about 1000 feet of range, on the other end of a sniper rifle, armed with a silver bullet.

    This equals dead vamp.

    Otherwise, trust me, if the ST is playing the Garou right he could probably kill off half the party.

    As has been mentioned before, they do agg damage with all of their attacks, which a vamp can only soak with Fortitude. They have probably somewhere around an 8 or 9 strength in Crinos, with claws that do at least a couple more dice added on. And they can expend an amount of Rage to take a number of actions equal to their Dex (which is also +1 in Crinos) plus the ability to run away into the Umbra where no Vamp could follow, if it becomes absolutely necessary.

    Trust me. Use a gun with silver ammo. And hope he doesn't have the merit that lets him soak damage dealt by silver with his stamina. Which by the way he CAN use to soak any other form of agg damage. And that isn't even taking into account the possibility of combat related gifts, like one that gives him extra soak dice (lunas armor), or more damage with his claws (Razor Claws), to name a couple of very minor rank 1 gifts. Garou are armored killing machines. They can REALLY wipe the floor with any non Elder vamp they might come up against. 10 on 1 you will kill him, but he will do a LOT of damage first. Especially since if you don't kill him on the first action he is going to get to go probably 4 or 5 more times before most of you get to go again. I.E. make sure those of you with Celerity use it.

    In battle with a Garou Fortitude, Celerity, and Protean are your friend. Potence is also nice. An elder with 3 or so dots in those disciplines will stand a chance in a toe to toe fight. Otherwise run away and shoot from a safe distance.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    As a vampire you have two things werewolves have not: Blood bond and ghouling. Use that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    (Hermetics are nice, but Vampires seem to get along better with Euthanatoi, and they can kill anything; Sons of Ether are fine too, since they can convert anything to silver ).
    Vampires might be getting along with Euthanatoi, but Euthanatoi will not be getting along with Vampires on a general level. Vampires are aberrations, monster who quit the cycle of rebirth. There is no other Tradition to which the state of vampirism must appear that monstrous. You might be thinking of Hollow Ones.

    Besides, any Mage with Matter 2 can turn anything to silver.

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1of3 View Post
    As a vampire you have two things werewolves have not: Blood bond and ghouling. Use that.
    Ohh, very good point. Prepare some disposable meat shields ahead of time.

    I mean ghouls.

    Oh wait, that is what I said the first time.

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser gate.
    All those moments will be lost. . . in time. . . like. . . tears, in the rain.
    Time. To die.

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    As a matter of tactics,

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    2) Werewolves automatically heal all non-Aggravated Damage.
    At a rate of one per round, though, so you can overpower them this way, at least theoretically.

    Only Silver, Fire, and special supernatural things do Aggravated Damage to Werewolves.
    In particular, thaumaturgy and protean/2 (feral claws).

    they can shift into Real Space from any reflecting surface. This is also a Bad Thing.
    They don't even need a mirror surface to "step out" of. They can step out of the umbra anywhere, but have more trouble doing so in technocratic places (e.g. cities).

    - Metis Werewolves may have the ability to create fire at will.
    So do others. It's a level-one gift, and other Garou can pick it up with a bit of experience points. The ones to really look out for are Sunbeam (a level-2 gift that does horrendous damage to vampires) and Kiss of Helios (level-5 so you probably won't see it, but it essentially turns a Garou into a fire elemental).

    Werewolves are immune to most mind-affecting powers vampires have (I think).
    Not particularly; they just have a slightly higher willpower than the average mortal (although some gifts, esp. Shadowlord and Silver Fang gifts, do provide immunity).

    One thing that Garou have trouble penetrating is Obfuscate. Not really a Brujah's style, but effective.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Lots of useful hints.


    The giovani is going down the spectral path, so that helpful.

    Firearms is probally not an option right now. My character is going to awakening from a time where firearms weren't even available.

    Obsfucate? May work out somehow. Fortitude? A must sometime.

    Thats gonna require points in allies and retainers I think. Plus, if I ghoul a human, then thats not gonna help me too much because then they'll just flee in terror more than half the time right?


    No, there are in total 5 werewolves. Half the group is werewolf, and that redclaw is a player, which is the only reason why I really fear.


    I could possibly convince some of hte other vampires but not likely.
    My life for Nerzhul!

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Thats gonna require points in allies and retainers I think. Plus, if I ghoul a human, then thats not gonna help me too much because then they'll just flee in terror more than half the time right?

    No, there are in total 5 werewolves. Half the group is werewolf, and that redclaw is a player, which is the only reason why I really fear.

    I could possibly convince some of hte other vampires but not likely.
    Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. If a fellow PC is going to be trying to kill you, then you're going to have to win a popularity contest with your fellow players. It's pretty much that simple: if you have more werewolves on your side then he does, you'll probably win.

    Further notes
    - I think ghouls count as "awakened" in regards to Delirium; anyone able to back me up on that?

    - Lasombra is going to be your best friend. Obtenebration can be used to hide you... not that you'll want to trust a Lasombra who's played right. Ditto with the Giovanni (though if you can get some Wraiths on your side...). Toreador continue to be worthless, so long as the Werewolf carries something shiny ().

    - Do NOT tell anyone where your Haven is. If the Werewolf finds out, you are dead.

    - Getting some NPCs on your side is going to be key for passive security. Ghoul a stout retainer (who can use guns!) or two, and see if you can tap the Toreador's network for aid. Chances are that the Toreador's connections will be worthless, but if you can set up a Final Dead Man's Switch and privately inform the Redclaw about it, he may hold off killing you.

    A nice Final Dead Man's Switch is a Delayed Mail package to Pentex that contains all of the Redclaw's private information and notes that he is a Werewolf. Make it so that it'll only be sent if you don't contact someone every night... that should hold the Redclaw off for awhile.

    ONLY DO THIS IS YOU CAN KEEP IT QUIET. Set up the Switch with the ST quietly and then don't tell anyone about it unless the Redclaw attacks. Then tell him and work out an agreement.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Firearms is probally not an option right now. My character is going to awakening from a time where firearms weren't even available.
    One word : CROSSBOW

    Obfuscate works great against werewolves. Though as a Knight you might find chopping him down from behind while invisible to be a bit...unsporting.

    If there's a Loasombra in your party, don't worry the Werewolf should find his powers much more offensive than you
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    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    One word : CROSSBOW
    Huh, that's an interesting idea.

    I don't remember the rules, but if you can convince your ST to let you use a Bow that adds your STR to the damage, then pump Potence and invest in some silver-tipped arrows. It's not quite a silver-loading assault rifle, but it's a start.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    I'll probally will have a couple of ghouls then.

    I don't know how well the Losombra will be played but the guy whos playing giovani is going to be playing him like a puppet master.

    Like I am going to trust anyone with my haven's location....

    Allies... I should get as many as I can somehow.

    Final Dead Man's Switch.... ugh.... Complex to pull of but I think I can manage somehow.

    Oh, I just remembered the last vampire's clan! Malkavian!



    I didn't create this character thinking of ranged combat, though he may expand into that later. He was going to go melee for the most part.

    As a knight, I'll find alot of things in the modern era unsporting. Thats not gonna stop me from surviving.

    Her powers. The Losombra is a she.

    The crossbow idea is nice but not his style. If I do go for range later on, its gonna be guns.



    I have a feeling I am gonna die and at the hands of the Red Talon. So I am making a back up character who may help me get some pay back on him. I am thinking Tremere with fire magic. Any tips on his creation?
    Last edited by Bago!!!; 2008-09-15 at 01:28 PM.
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    Oh man, Malkavian! Why didn't you say so?

    If the ST lets him have Dementation, and you can keep him under control, keep that Malk with you at all times. Werewolves might be pretty tough, but nothing is going to screw 'em over quite like screwin' with their heads

    Also: if you think the Dead Man's Switch is too complicated, you're going to have trouble with classic Vampire . That said, you can outsource it to the Toreador or Lasombra - whichever is playing the "smarter" character, or has more experience playing Vampire. Yeah, you'll be putting your unlife in their hands, but they'll probably choose a fellow Kindred over a vampire-hunting Werewolf

    If you must be a melee character, find out if you can use Dark Ages gear and get their BFS (Big eFfin' Sword) and get it silvered. It does ludicrous damage, and might be enough to keep the Werewolf off guard.

    Invest in Ghoul, not herd, BTW. And Potence & Celerity (if you're elder enough, you can get a ton of actions with Celerity). Um, and you'll have to fight pretty chivalrously to survive a head-to-head with a Werewolf.
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    I wouldn't be that nervous about a heads up confrontation, especially if its one on one. This presumes you have the stats of a 600-900 year old Brujah. To me at least that means about 5 potence and 5 celerity among other things.

    WoD is not centered around combat, but since we are talking conflict I use this time to expound my theory:

    Elder Vampires can kick the **** out of Werewolves.

    Dex is the most important combat stat. If you can't hit, it doesn't matter how much damage you could have done. The highest a Chrinos Werewolf can get his Dex is 6. An elder vamp can get his to 10, even a neonate can get it to 9. so an elder vamp has a better chance to hit an dodge.

    Werewolves can get actions for rage points at a one to one rate. A vamp spends one blood and gets extra actions equal to his celerity on the next round. Werewolves start with between 1-5 rage and can raise it to 10 through xp. This means that a garou with 10 rage can get rid of it in two rounds with 6 actions each round (1 normal, 5 bonus). A vamp with 5 celertiy can have 6 actions a round as long as he has blood.

    Lets look at damage. The maximum Str a Chrinos werewolf can have is 9. Claws do str+1 ag. So the max damage is 9+1 dice +dice equal to extra successes on attack roll. Like dex, elder vamps can raise str to 10. Give him a silvered broadsword and he's doing 10+3 dice of damage +5 automatic levels for the potence + dice equal to extra successes (and remember with a better Dex the vamp has a higher chance of having dice, and more of them) +1 die for it being silver, and the total is completely unsoakable to werewolves. It takes 8 levels a nonsoaked damage to kill a werewolf (barring them using rage to revive) This means you only have to get 3 successes with the 14 dice to kill a Chrinos werewolf in one hit. Now there are somethings like Luna's Armor that can help mitigate this, but remember with that celerity 5 there are 5 more attacks coming this round alone.

    This example does use an elder vampire and the vampire does pull out all the stops. But it also uses a werewolf with maxed attributes and when vamps fight werewolves they do pull out all the stops. The purpose of this theory is to show that while a neonate may get slaughtered by a cub, the power scale shifts with age. A 900 year old vampire should be able to take any werewolf alive. Given the short life expectancy of the garou, the opponent is probably in his 20s-40s. If the stats match the age, a vamp has little to fear 1 on 1.
    Last edited by TheElfLord; 2008-09-15 at 03:42 PM.
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    Okay, people seem to be getting my characters age confused with his power. Let me clarify. I am just starting, my character was put into Torper for many years (like centuries).
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Okay, people seem to be getting my characters age confused with his power. Let me clarify. I am just starting, my character was put into Torper for many years (like centuries).
    Your character age should be power. What is your vampire's Generation? The lower the Generation, the more blood you can hold and the more blood points you can spend in a round.

    If your Generation higher than, what, 10?, then you'd better find out who your Sire was and how he and his Sires could get away with so many Childer.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Hhhhhmmm.... I never thought about that.

    Well, I forget how the whole generation thing works. How many per a rank reduces the generation? I forget.


    How does one use potency? Is it automatic or what? And if I spend multiple points on celerity, does that mean I get that many more attacks?
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElfLord View Post
    Elder Vampires can kick the **** out of Werewolves.
    Unless you're dealing with an equally experienced werewolf. Then its back to smooshing vampire bits.

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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Okay, people seem to be getting my characters age confused with his power. Let me clarify. I am just starting, my character was put into Torper for many years (like centuries).
    Well you listed your age as if it mattered. If you character has one be active a couple years, then he really isn't 600-900 years old. He's basically a few decades old. He's got all of the anacronim and none of the power of being born long ago.

    In that case be prepared to die. Elders who are 300 years old and have been active all that time are freaked out by the technological changes. You thing today's senior citizens have issues with technology. Try someone 3 times their age. You character will be wondering around a world he doesn't understand. The language is different. The technology is different. Politics is different. Culture and society are different. You best bet is to hope you meet a friendly person who will help calm your fears and guide you through basic tech 101 (maybe movable type and gunpowder) then start following Oracle's advice. A Red Talon will be a lupis garou, so he won't have much of a human idenity. That will make him hard to mess with unless you start taking action against local wolves, and that will make you hunted by all the garou.

    Also, you have to worry about the Sabbot. You character won't know what the Sabbot is, but if you have even a few dots in Generation you'd be a target. Any Sabbot Cainite would jump at the chance to diablarize a vamp who has no idea what's going on.
    The Historian: This DM has the history of his world written out millenniums back. It is intricate, complex, and most importantly, incredibly long. Moreover, everything your characters are doing is based on the previous history. It also tends to lead to loudmouth NPCS who will explain hundreds of years of history at a time while the players try to gouge their eardrums out with mechanical pencils.


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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bago!!! View Post
    Hhhhhmmm.... I never thought about that.

    Well, I forget how the whole generation thing works. How many per a rank reduces the generation? I forget.


    How does one use potency? Is it automatic or what? And if I spend multiple points on celerity, does that mean I get that many more attacks?
    1) Potence is a Discipline that's always on. It gives you free successes on any STR check. This is excellent in combat - I once ran a Vampire, Vampire Hunter with 4 Potence who could auto-stake Vampires. Good times

    2) Celerity gives you your Celerity Rating in extra actions for every point of blood you spend in a turn. A sufficiently low Generation vampire can spend 2 or 3 blood a turn - this is key.

    3) Generation is purchased during character creation with Background Points. If you have no points in it, then your background is inappropriate. You have to put at least 3 dots in it.

    EDIT:
    I assumed since 1/2 the vampires in your party are "evil" that you're on friendly terms with the local Sabbat groups. They're pretty handy if you need someone to stand up for Vampire Rights. They're also really, really evil - but I'm sure your Lasombra can get you an in if need be
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2008-09-15 at 04:19 PM.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Bel here has the idea.

    1) Awesome!

    2) Neat! So should I have more celerity or potency?

    3) I haven't invested any Bonus background points yet. And how many resources would it take to have a silver greatsword?


    Edit to respond to that other edit: Well that would be useful, but vancover is like a safe haven from all that Sabat vs. Camarilla (I got the name right?)
    Last edited by Bago!!!; 2008-09-15 at 04:22 PM.
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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleriphon View Post
    Unless you're dealing with an equally experienced werewolf. Then its back to smooshing vampire bits.
    Werewolves die of old age around 120 I think. Most don't make it to 30. There are no werewolves of equal experience to an elder vampire, especially not one that is a fully powered 900 year old.

    My calculations didn't even take generation into acount and they still showed how an elder vampire can have an advantage in almost every category.

    Its really a matter of power scales. The only difference between a rank 1 werewolf and a rank 5 is what gifts they have. The difference between a newly embraced 13th gen vamp and a 1000 year old 4th gen are enormous. More blood pool, blood per turn, almost twice the potential in attributes, abilities, and disciplines. High ranking gifts don't make up for all the abilities elders get.
    The Historian: This DM has the history of his world written out millenniums back. It is intricate, complex, and most importantly, incredibly long. Moreover, everything your characters are doing is based on the previous history. It also tends to lead to loudmouth NPCS who will explain hundreds of years of history at a time while the players try to gouge their eardrums out with mechanical pencils.


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    Default Re: WoD game! Need Help!

    I'd say Resource 2 or 3 if you only have your sword and your armor. 3 would also give you a decent Haven.

    I think you'll need Celerity first. Unfortunately, your DEX sucks, but if you can get 8 Aggravated Wounds to stick to a werewolf before he kills you, you win.
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