[3.5] I need a good Ur Priest build

[Frosty]

Theres a possibility that I might be playing an Athar (Athiest) in a future campaign. I'm thinking about playing an Ur priest and I need some good builds with them. I know one involves Sublime Chord, but we won't be starting at that level and I want something that'll get rolling sooner. What are some good builds for it, and also, what are the exact requirements for the class? I know you need +3 fort and will, Iron Will, some knowledge, and what else?

[Ganurath]

First level dip in Bard, Able Learner for Bluff. Five levels of Monk after that give you the saves and skills you need.

[Keld Denar]

Take a looksie into Sacreligious Fist, the Monk/Ur-Priest/Sacred Fist build. Most of them are pretty decent. You get full 9th level casting, great BAB, and good unarmed damage. If you can con (bribery or alcohol work well) your DM into letting Extra Spell add Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon sorc/wiz3) to your spell list, you'll be a decent melee powerhouse. You'll have decent starting saves, clerical goodnes, and outright baddassery.

Another interesting build would be like, Hexblade4/something/Urpriest10/stuff. Go Dark Companion and do some debuffing before you use your divine spells to pwn.

[Frosty]

Take a looksie into Sacreligious Fist, the Monk/Ur-Priest/Sacred Fist build. Most of them are pretty decent. You get full 9th level casting, great BAB, and good unarmed damage. If you can con (bribery or alcohol work well) your DM into letting Extra Spell add Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon sorc/wiz3) to your spell list, you'll be a decent melee powerhouse. You'll have decent starting saves, clerical goodnes, and outright baddassery.

Another interesting build would be like, Hexblade4/something/Urpriest10/stuff. Go Dark Companion and do some debuffing before you use your divine spells to pwn.

Great BAB? hmm...I am AFB right now, but Monk1 gives +0, Sacred fist is Full BAB I believe. What does Ur Priest give? And also, does Monk fulfill skill requirements?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

IIRC, you can take Ur-Priest after level 8. The Bard build is Bard 1/Anything Arcane(Usually Duskblade or Warmage) 7/Ur-Priest 2/SC 1/Mystic Theurge 9.

Personally, I like the idea of Swordsage 6/Crusader 2/Ur-Priest x/RKV x. Space the levels to taste.

[Ponce]

With the Bard/UrPriest/... stuff, you can go into Dragon Disciple once you have done all levels of UrPriest and gain bonus spell slots. Depending on how you build it, that could be around 3 extra 9th level spells! You already meet most reqs, all you need is 8 ranks in knowledge (arcana). Sounds like... a lot of fun, actually. Try Bard1/Monk5/UrPriest10/DD4.

[Kaihaku]

Well, argue with your Dungeon Master. If they have a lick of sense they'll probably remove the Spell Focus(Evil) requirement. I guess Spell Focus(Chaos) would make more sense anyway.

[Chronos]

I've been toying with the idea of a Binder/Ur-Priest/Tenebrous Apostate (the fluff fits perfectly, and the prereqs largely overlap), but that doesn't leave any way to get the Spellcraft prereq without some more dipping.

Frosty, check out Crystal Keep. Their PDFs are very useful, containing information on a broad array of things-- Their prestige class list, for instance, lists the requirements, basic class traits (HD, saves, etc.), and the first two levels of what the class gives. They're not complete (they don't have anything from the second round of Completes or later, and they skip all of the alternate systems like psionics and Incarnum), but they do include Ur-Priest. The other PDFs are also very useful; I'd recommend grabbing them all.

The most difficult prerequisites for Ur-Priest are Knowledge (Religion) and Spellcraft 8 ranks each, so you can enter it after five levels (which eventually means casting 9th level spells at character level 14 or 15). There are a lot of skill prereqs, though, which means you'll probably need a high-skill base class to qualify that early.

[Wolfpack]

Ur-Priest can be take as early as level 6.

In addition to Iron Will you must also take Spell Focus (Evil). And you must have a +3 Fort save as well.

Some builds are:

1)Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 10. Basic and with practiced spellcaster you have a CL equal to any other character, but with 9th level spells sooner.

2) Savage Bard 1/Wizard 4/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8. Mystic Theurge provides 1.5 CL increase and you have the same Wizard casting as ay other Theurge would have, but the best possible Ur-Priest progression.

3) Savage Bard 1/Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1/Warlock 1/Duskblade 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 5.

If you are starting at level 8 or up, this is easily viable. And even though it slows your Ur-Priest progression by one level, it is a tremendous boost to CL when you take Sublime Chord.

Basically, when it comes to classes to be taken before Ur-Priest heres the rundown:

1) Warlock: Casting stat not that important, provides all day buffs even at low CL. Very useful for a few levels if you aren't going to be progressing it later.

2) Savage Bard: Bardic Music in case you intend to go into Sublime Chord, good skills, and good fort and will saves, both the ones needed to qualify.

3) Duskblade: Spellcasting class with good Fort save, useful in combo with 4 levels of one of the many spellcasting classes with good will save, best if you intend to advance that class later.

[Frosty]

I am not certain I will have access to Savage Bard. It might not fit the character theme :(

[Keld Denar]

Maybe like:
Hexblade1 (max out Kn:Arcane and Spellcraft) Iron Will
Monk1 (max out Kn:Relig)
Monk2 (keep funneling skill points) Spell Focus: Evil
Monk3 (same)
Monk4 (Same)
Urpriest1 Improved Natural Attack
Urpriest2
Sacred Fist1
Sacred Fist2 Power Attack
Sacred Fist3
Sacred Fist4
Sacred Fist5 Divine Might
Sacred Fist6
Sacred Fist7
Sacred Fist8 Extend Spell
Sacred Fist9
Sacred Fist10
Ordained Champ1 Quicken Spell
Ordained Champ2
Ordained Champ3

I dunno, you could probably do better things with the feats, like go DMM Persist (Righeous Might) or whatever, but this isn't so bad.

I understand that this gives you more +CLs than you can use in Urpriest, and while they won't add spells/day, they will increase your effective CL, which'll make you pretty strong when you want to drop bombs like Blasphemy.

[Frosty]

Why 2 levels of Ur Priest? And can you explain how Ur Priest CL works and why this build would give me lots of CL?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Most dual-progression PrCs need at least 2nd level spells, so Ur-Priest 2.

As for the CL-shenanigans, it's because Ur-priest gives you +1 CL for every level of Ur-priest casting, and +.5 CL for every class level except Ur-Priest. So a PrC that advances casting increases CL by 1.5/level. One of the many things a sane DM won't allow, but some people insist on repeating.

[Frosty]

Plus, Sacred Fist may require turn/rebuke undead and UP2 gives that I believe.

[Chronos]

Why 2 levels of Ur Priest?

Ur-Priest 2 also gives you Rebuke Undead, which of course can be used with many feats and other options.

[Frosty]

Doesn't Sacred fist require a crapload of feats to get into? I'm not sure I can spare all of them. And of course, Charisma is likely a dump stat for me so I won't have that many turns/rebukes.

[Frosty]

Well Monk 2 gives you most of them.

How about this to get more caster level and a feat?

Hexblade1/Duskblade2/Monk2/Ur Priest1/Sacred Fist10/Whatever 4?

what happens if I try to advance Ur Priest spellcasting beyond 10th level? can't do it?

I wonder what's a good race for this. Damage is going to be somewhat subpar I feel like, since I can't give my fists enchantments. I can cast GMW on myself at least. Yep. I definitely need Practiced Spellcaster.

[Keld Denar]

I like Hexblade1/Monk4 over Hexblade1/Monk2/Duskblade2. Duskblade 2 doesn't even give you channel.

In fact, a decent build might be Duskblade3/Monk2/Urpriest2/SacredFist10/X3. This would give you the ability to channel a Harm through your melee attack. That would be pretty sweet.

[Frosty]

I like Hexblade1/Monk4 over Hexblade1/Monk2/Duskblade2. Duskblade 2 doesn't even give you channel.

In fact, a decent build might be Duskblade3/Monk2/Urpriest2/SacredFist10/X3. This would give you the ability to channel a Harm through your melee attack. That would be pretty sweet.

I wanted that, but how are you going to get Bluff 6 in time?

[Keld Denar]

I wanted that, but how are you going to get Bluff 6 in time?

Martial Study? Does one of the 9 schools have bluff as the featured skill?

[Frosty]

Martial Study? Does one of the 9 schools have bluff as the featured skill?

Not a one is there a feat that allows me to choose 2 skills as class skills?

[Jack_Simth]

Most dual-progression PrCs need at least 2nd level spells, so Ur-Priest 2.

As for the CL-shenanigans, it's because Ur-priest gives you +1 CL for every level of Ur-priest casting, and +.5 CL for every class level except Ur-Priest. So a PrC that advances casting increases CL by 1.5/level. One of the many things a sane DM won't allow, but some people insist on repeating.

Almost.

It gives you + 1/2 your caster level for your arcane casting classes.

As written, it technically works for the Mystic-Theurge and similar dual-progression PrC's at 1.5; single progression PrC's don't have that bug.

As for a good progression that gets rolling quickly?

Savage Bard (UA variant) 5/Ur-Priest-2/Mystic Theurge (Ur-Priest/Savage Bard)-3/Sublime Chord-1/Mystic Theurge(Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord)-7.

You're up and going with Ur-Priest as soon as it's possible (qualify at 5th, take the first level at 6th). 5th level spells at Character level 10.

You're up and going with Sublime Chord as soon as it's possible (qualify at 10th, take it at 11th).

You end up with both 9th level arcane and 9th level divine casting (9th level Divine at 15th or 16th, depending on Wisdom; 9th level Arcane at 19th).

You only delay a single level on the Ur-priest spellcasting progression (at 11th, to take the Sublime Chord for later).

You've only got a fairly brief window where the build is actually better than a pure caster (14-16) due to early spell access. Otherwise, the reduced-slot nature of both the Ur-Priest and the Sublime Chord make you less effective than a pure caster, although other than the MAD (which really does hurt), you're about on par overall, with slightly more flexibility.

Notes:
Savage Bard trades the Reflex save for a Fort save, plus some other stuff that doesn't mean overly much for this, so the pure Savage Bard qualifies.
You'll need a modicum of Int, and possibly Able Learner, to make the Sublime Chord requirements at 10th level.

[Eldariel]

Apprentice from DMGII. Pick up some rogue/conartist/bard/whatever as your mentor and Bluff should be more than simple enough to get. Pick other to taste.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've always liked Human with Able Learner, Swashbuckler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8/ (Wizard PrC) 5. Go Conjurer with the PH2 variant for Abrupt Jaunt, and the UA variant to swap Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning. Be sure to say your character has visited the Otyugh Hole from Complete Scoundrel to gain Iron Will for free. Also make sure to take Practiced Spellcaster for both Wizard and Ur-Priest. Maybe swap out Swashbuckler for the Thug variant of Fighter, along with the Sneak Attack variant. Keep in mind you don't really need to make a high-BAB build since you can get Divine Metamagic: Persistent for Divine Power by level 9.

You cannot go Mystic Theurge/ Sublime Chord/ Mystic Theurge and add any MT levels to SC spellcasting:
"When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously."
You must have at least one Sublime Chord level prior to gaining your first level of Mystic Theurge in order to add MT to your SC spellcasting.

Mystic Theurge does not add +1.5 caster level to Ur-Priest per level:

Spoiler

Show

As-written, no class that does not have its own spell list and spellcasting progression is counsidered a "spellcasting class." As-written, no prestige class that advances another class' spellcasting ability will be counted for Ur-Priest's +1/2 caster level boost. Ur-Priest only counts your class levels in other spellcasting classes, not their effective spellcasting ability, not their effective level for spellcasting ability.

If prestige classes that advanced another class' spellcasting ability were considered spellcasting classes, you could go Swashbuckler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 1/ Master Specialist 10/ Archmage 2, and use Master Specialist and Archmage to advance your Mystic Theurge spellcasting, which would advance your Wizard and Ur-Priest spellcasting. This does not work, because Mystic Theurge is not a spellcasting class. Mystic Theurge also does not count for Ur-Priest's +1/2 caster level of other spellcasting classes, because it is not a spellcasting class.

Don't try to argue that "you add your Mystic Theurge level to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has," because "add the character’s ur-priest levels to one-half of his levels in other spellcasting classes." Mystic theurge doesn't add to your level in that class, it doesn't grant you additional familiar abilities, bonus feats, or turn undead ability, and it doesn't count for anything based on your level in that class other than that class' spellcasting ability.

Ur-Priest doesn't care what your spellcasting ability is in any other class. A Hexblade 3/ Paladin of Tyranny 3/ Ur-Priest 1 would have a caster level of 4 despite Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny each having an effective level of zero for their spellcasting ability. They're still spellcasting classes because they each have their own spell list and spellcasting progression, and Ur-Priest only counts your actual levels in those classes rather than their effective level of spellcasting ability.

"Mystic Theurge adds +1.5 caster level to Ur-Priest per level" is only spoken by cheaters who try to push an improper ruling or claim ignorance of the rules in order to benefit.

[Frosty]

Again, Savage bard is probably not allowed. Hmm...how can I boost myself up to CL20 with this? It sucks that non-spellcasting classes don't count for CL. I can only take Practiced Spellcaster once

[JaxGaret]

Warlock6/Mindbender1/Ur-Priest2/Eldritch Disciple10 is a particularly nasty one, especially at higher levels.

If the lower levels are more important, just go Bard4/Fort1/Ur-Priest10. Pick any class with a good Fort save for the 5th level.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Which build are you looking at? Ur-Priest is entered at 6th level, apparently. If all the classes before that were casters, you have CL 3 before taking Ur-Priest levels. Toss in PS and you're good.

[Frosty]

If I were to make a Sacriligious Fist, I'd have a lot of non-caster levels...

[Darrin]

Not a one is there a feat that allows me to choose 2 skills as class skills?

Yes. Flexible Mind (Dragon #326), which requires a chaotic alignment:

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...le_Mind,Dragon

Or Skill Knowledge (Unearthed Arcana, p. 81). It either makes two skills in one class count as class skills for all your classes, or makes one cross-class skill into a class skill.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Monk 2/Duskblade 3 gives you 1.5 CL for those 5 levels. How is it not fixed by PS?