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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by HPV View Post
    I believe there's a lot to be said for the theory that the last panel is meant to represent Parson coping with the circumstances he finds himself in. Nargrakhan's post describes very well the dark humour of those who find themselves in extremely stressful situations, but I think, on top of that, the fact that Parson is deriving humour from beating Erfworld's swear filter is a significant part of his coping mechanism.
    To switch to this discussion for a moment...

    I think the contrast between Sizemore's reaction and Parson's flippancy is deliberate. Remember, after Misty's death, his first reaction was to try and 'wake up' (which he stopped 'for now'.) This plainly freaked Sizemore out.

    This is emphasizing that again. Parson is reacting to this world by trying to avoid taking it seriously; he gets the occasional 'wham' from things like Misty's death or his talk with Sizemore last night, but he's trying to put those out of his head and treat it like a game. This is setting him up for more conflict with Sizemore and others in the future, I think.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    The Old Hack's Avatar

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolem View Post
    Finally the giant blocks of text are over with. I've seen shorter Presidential speeches.
    "The Lord's Prayer is 66 words, the Gettysburg Address is 286 words, there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence, but government regulations on the sale of cabbage total 26,911 words."

    -National Review

    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

  3. - Top - End - #303
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Eraniverse View Post
    Dora And Webinar's Shocking Incestuous Relationship! Scandalous!

    Your concept of familial attitudes held between units of the same side has absolutely nothing to back it up.
    Do not feed the troll.
    \'Twas brillig, and the slithey toves....

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    The Old Hack's Avatar

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaVespasa View Post
    Do not feed the troll.
    But I'm hungry!
    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Laurentio II's Avatar

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelon View Post
    Right, Mungs joke strongly indicates male parts.
    What remains is the freedom of choice without biological necessities.
    Considering that Mungs is aroused by a (admittedly sensual) member of a different specie, I have to fully agree. Or, he is a fetishist of dominatrix outfits, that hardly invalidates the point.
    The lack on maternity and reproductive issues is growing a weird side debate in this comic.

  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    To switch to this discussion for a moment...

    I think the contrast between Sizemore's reaction and Parson's flippancy is deliberate. Remember, after Misty's death, his first reaction was to try and 'wake up' (which he stopped 'for now'.) This plainly freaked Sizemore out.

    This is emphasizing that again. Parson is reacting to this world by trying to avoid taking it seriously; he gets the occasional 'wham' from things like Misty's death or his talk with Sizemore last night, but he's trying to put those out of his head and treat it like a game. This is setting him up for more conflict with Sizemore and others in the future, I think.
    Still, for me it is about as out of place as if he did unsavory things on their graves. As impressive as the entire panel is, the last frame ruins the mood for me (well, maybe that was the intention after all). I know I can speak only for myself but I have the feeling that I am not alone.

    @Laurentio: huh, right, I was just trying to make a point that what the two girls have might perfectly normal in Erf, which is similar but not quite the same as Earth. Well, seems like there is a great potential for gender equality in Erfworld that is offset by inequality of station.
    Orc Girl Avatar by Yeril !

    Irideen Yoannaell,woodelf ranger Into the Depths of the Earth (Dawnhorn) character sheet

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Zolem's Avatar

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurentio II View Post
    Considering that Mungs is aroused by a (admittedly sensual) member of a different specie, I have to fully agree. Or, he is a fetishist of dominatrix outfits, that hardly invalidates the point.
    The lack on maternity and reproductive issues is growing a weird side debate in this comic.
    As such I say we table the debate and let's never speak of this again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    If the players figure out and try to stop this from occuring, the wizard instantly crafts a HUGE mound of quarterstaves and clubs to obscure himself before teleporting out.

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by HPV View Post
    *looks at ten long pages of discussion*
    Well, if the authors' intent was to be thought provoking, they've certainly succeeded! *grin*
    I see the authors shaking their heads and murmuring "Christ, I swear, these people start analyzing the strangest things..." myself. XD
    Last edited by kagato23; 2008-10-01 at 05:07 PM.
    /co/ is love.

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelon View Post
    Still, for me it is about as out of place as if he did unsavory things on their graves. As impressive as the entire panel is, the last frame ruins the mood for me (well, maybe that was the intention after all). I know I can speak only for myself but I have the feeling that I am not alone.
    He's Parson the Git, and he's behaving accordingly.

    (I do wonder if the person who asked me "why does that make Parson a git?" in a previous thread would have done so if he'd realized that that title would permanently attach itself to Parson in my mind.)
    Last edited by Kish; 2008-10-01 at 05:30 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Lizardfolk

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    Thumbs up Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenitor View Post

    Apparently it requires intelligence to cast, but not to lead... :D
    While I've never been a caster, I was a cop for a lot of years, and I'd have to agree with this...
    "Sometimes you need to tame a dwagon, sometimes you just need to bust a nut."- Lord Stanley

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    This is -such- a good comic. I can't wait to see what happens next!
    Last edited by Aeryn; 2008-10-02 at 11:34 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #312
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    why there's sex in Erfworld even without the biological significance, as there's no birth nor childhood (POP- there's a new inhabitant fully matured)?

    Because it's enjoyable, fun, pleasant (most of the time)!
    We have seen that the Erfworlders are very much personalities who, despite not having any biological need for procreation, still want intimacy and companionship. Sex maybe devoid of actual/biological necessity, it's still quite popular. Even the Tool enjoys it enough to spend part of his turn doing it.
    the necessity of Sex in Erfworld is social or even psychological. The concept of love is not alien to Erfworld at all and when Love rears it's head, Sex might get involved too. it usually does...

    and then there's sex without love, like Wanda distracting the Tool during the dragon raid on ansom's siege....

    so, excluding the non-existant biological necessity for sex in Erfworld, it is done for all the other reasons we have in the real world. Pleasure, deep-felt affection for one-another etc.

    which makes the erfworlders more "human" or "real" and thus it's sad when they die violently...

    Is this comic really a matter of "wargaming chits have feelings too..."?

  13. - Top - End - #313
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt'n Ironbrow View Post
    why there's sex in Erfworld even without the biological significance, as there's no birth nor childhood (POP- there's a new inhabitant fully matured)?

    Because it's enjoyable, fun, pleasant (most of the time)!
    We have seen that the Erfworlders are very much personalities who, despite not having any biological need for procreation, still want intimacy and companionship. Sex maybe devoid of actual/biological necessity, it's still quite popular. Even the Tool enjoys it enough to spend part of his turn doing it.
    the necessity of Sex in Erfworld is social or even psychological. The concept of love is not alien to Erfworld at all and when Love rears it's head, Sex might get involved too. it usually does...

    and then there's sex without love, like Wanda distracting the Tool during the dragon raid on ansom's siege....

    so, excluding the non-existant biological necessity for sex in Erfworld, it is done for all the other reasons we have in the real world. Pleasure, deep-felt affection for one-another etc.

    which makes the erfworlders more "human" or "real" and thus it's sad when they die violently...

    Is this comic really a matter of "wargaming chits have feelings too..."?
    I couldn't have said any better for the elderly!

  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Devil

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Having read nearly everything in this post (most of what I skipped was the horse discussions) and having read TamLin's long post (I want the cookie too, I have no cookies) I have to say I think its really cool that Erfworld has really sparked such interesting and (in many places) eloquent debate.

    I have to say myself, I didn't even think that much of Parson's comment when I first read it (only after reading TamLin's response did I begin to think about it). And while I'm more in the camp that tends to attribute Parson's response to simply extreme joy that their winning (not to mention "I'm gonna live!" bit), but also an expression of his own liberation from the censors. However, I can also see the merit in much of TamLin's point of view as well (though I don't find it confused genre wise, for me personally, simply because I tend to focus on it as an incomplete work at present).

    So to add something new so that I'm not just making an affirmative post, and just because I wanted to:

    I think this comic also creates an interesting figuration of the Other (in the literary sense of the word, by which I mean loosely in the dichotomy of Us/Them we often have different shades (places where the them can become us (usually based on levels of empathy and similarity), where Other is the extreme of Them. Monsters are the archetypal Other (but it comes in other forms, including a psychological meaning of the word which I won't delve into as deeply right now).

    What I mean is, in typical D&D the Other is the monster that's simply "always evil" applied to it and is monstrously ugly by human standards (and hence is often thought of as having inhuman thought patterns too). Hence the Other is sanctioned for death, removal, and annihilation.

    In Erfworld, this is played on as well, but sometimes from a nearly opposite end of the spectrum. Instead of being monstrous as ugly inhuman, its demarked as still non-human, but also not as monstrous, but rather as (I guess the best word I can find here is) "inanimate" in the sense that marbits are connected to marshmallow bits, cloth golems to stuffed animals, gwiffions are peeps, etc. So when we witness their destruction we are unphased (just as with the death of a monster).

    Even our empathy for the fallen in this comic scene is run though Sizemore, rather than rooted in the suffering of marbits (who remain silenced and are spoken for by their human leaders).

    hmmm. . . stuff to chew on.

  15. - Top - End - #315
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Alright, as engaging as this discussion has been, it's grown too large for me to keep up with anymore, and besides, there's a new page up anyway. Cookies will be en route to those who requested them as soon as I learn how to bake.

  16. - Top - End - #316
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelon View Post
    Still, for me it is about as out of place as if he did unsavory things on their graves. As impressive as the entire panel is, the last frame ruins the mood for me (well, maybe that was the intention after all). I know I can speak only for myself but I have the feeling that I am not alone.
    To be fair...

    Imagine we only saw Parson's side of things; we never saw or were introduced to Webnar or Dora. Or suppose instead of Webnar and Dora, the Marbits were lead by two slightly bigger Marbits, otherwise drawn identically, whose 'communication' was just incoherent sounds.

    Would you feel the same way about this page?

    Remember, for all intents and purposes, that is what Parson sees. All he knows is that the tunnels are being attacked by Marbits lead by warlords. He's never even seen a Marbit; he might think they're little triangle marshmellow squares. He knows Sizemore is freaked, but that's it.

    I think that's the point. We see how horrible Parson's joking is, because we were introduced to Webnar and Dora, and because we saw them die. Parson saw neither; and I think that if we'd seen things solely from his position, people wouldn't be that upset.

    In fact, I know that that is the case. This isn't the first engagement of the war. Parson's ordered units killed before. And he was joking the night before the battle. Nobody here protested. It was only after characters we know got killed, a few panels away, that people here started realizing something was wrong. As long as there was distance between Parson's joking and the killing, nobody here cared. Nothing has changed from Parson's view; it's just that the strip is forcing us to see what's going on. And no, you can't say the units that were killed before 'weren't people'; Stanley was promoted from the ranks, remember, and that means most intelligent-seeming units probably are, in fact, intelligent. Every Marbit Parson ordered killed was likely just as much worth getting upset over as Webnar and Dora.

    I don't know which it was -- the closeness with which we were shown them, or the fact that suddenly the units getting killed look like us, or the fact that we've been introduced to them and know their name, or the fact that we were shown their deaths and it was made to look sympathetic.

    But either way, I think that the fact that people are only reacting to this now is telling, and indicative that few people here can realistically claim to be different from Parson -- certainly, if you've never been concerned with the death toll or with Parson's joking before, you can't credibly criticize him for it now, because before the strip went out if its way to wave it in your face you were just the same way.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2008-10-04 at 07:35 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #317
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    HOLEkevin's Avatar

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    Default Re: 124 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 112

    Wait… who's Gillian!? That looked important!
    For another fantasy webcomic with Dungeons and Dragons, read Heroes of Lesser Earth now, before it becomes cool and everyone starts doing it!

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