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    Default [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Blade Gale
    “My blade is like the wind; unpredictable and prone to sudden changes in direction”

    Prerequisite: Swordmage, Ranger or Fighter, Dexterity 16, Weapon Focus Heavy Blades or Light Blades

    You wield your blade as if it were a rushing wind, toppling foes and shoving them around the battlefield. You move swiftly, and with great precision, timing every dodge, parry and riposte perfectly so that a foe is forced into an unfavourable position.

    Blade Gale Path Features
    Wind Edge (11th level): When wielding a light blade or heavy blade with which you are proficient, you gain +1 reach with your melee basic attacks. Any damage dealt at reach is considered force damage rather than weapon damage.
    Wind Walk (11th level): You may spend an action point to become invisible and gain a +1 bonus to speed until the end of your next turn or until you attack, rather than take an extra action.
    Dazzling Parries (16th level): You may slide any foe that misses you with a melee attack a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier as an immediate reaction.

    Blade Gale Powers
    Critical Strike Blade Gale Attack 11
    “You capitalize on a foe’s blunder, allowing you to drive your blade home.”
    Encounter * Arcane, Weapon
    Immediate Reaction Melee Weapon
    Trigger: An adjacent enemy misses you with a melee attack
    Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
    Special: You can score a critical hit with this attack on a roll of 17-20
    Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage. If you score a critical hit, you may shift a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier after the attack.

    Gale Force Defence Blade Gale Utility 12
    “The wind is my shield, and my sword my armour”
    Daily * Arcane, Stance
    Minor Action Personal
    Requirement: You must be wearing light armour
    Effect: You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and all your defences, but enemies must roll twice when attacking you and take the lower result.

    Blade Whirlwind Blade Gale Attack 20
    “You spin rapidly, and as the wind around you picks up in reply, you fling foes around the room and regain control of the battle.”
    Daily * Arcane, Force, Weapon
    Standard Action Close Burst 2
    Target: Every enemy in burst
    Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
    Hit: 1[W] + dexterity modifier damage, the target is dazed and slowed (save ends both), takes a -2 penalty to saving throws (save ends), you slide the target a number of squares equal to your dexterity modifier and knock them prone.
    Special: While enemies adjacent to you take normal weapon damage, enemies at the edge of the burst take force damage instead.


    Enjoy, and PEACH away!
    Last edited by Shadow_Elf; 2008-09-28 at 11:16 AM.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    i like the flavour... and the balance seems good.
    here are some
    Dazzling parries... would that be an "immediate reaction" instead of free action? with the trigger like "after a melee miss from enemy" it sounds like one.

    shifting dexterity modifier ammount after each enemy attack... isn't that tooo much? on level 11 +5 is pretty much possible and that would mean you can pretty much run around the whole encounter after 3 misses without a move action.

    can someone use Dazzling Parries and Critical Strike both for the same "miss"?
    (i mean like shift self AND enemy for the same missing attack)

    the flavour of Gale Force Defense sounds like some sort of martial Mage Armor and i kinda like it. the works of it seems to "resemble" the halflings racial ability. just one question to this: isn't it a problem that this "stance" is a daily power? (i didn't read about stances yet, so sorry if it sounds stupid)

    Dazzling Dance of Death:
    uhm... if my dexterity mod is higher than 2 then how does the 2nd attack hit? (like the target slides 4 and shift 2... wouldn't that be out of reach? even with the +1 reach from the lvl11 feat)

    also did you take the -2 all def take into account when you gave +2 bonus on the secondary attack? i see no problem with it, just asking.

    uhm and shouldn't the damage increase with the attacks? even with the attack bonuses it's not likely that the 3rd attack will hit so a daily power could have a bigger kick. (with the movement involved you could end up being isolated with an enemy)

    EDIT: seems like a very good striker/controller class
    Last edited by Rigon; 2008-09-27 at 06:34 PM.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    i like the flavour... and the balance seems good.
    here are some
    Dazzling parries... would that be an "immediate reaction" instead of free action? with the trigger like "after a melee miss from enemy" it sounds like one.

    shifting dexterity modifier ammount after each enemy attack... isn't that tooo much? on level 11 +5 is pretty much possible and that would mean you can pretty much run around the whole encounter after 3 misses without a move action.

    can someone use Dazzling Parries and Critical Strike both for the same "miss"?
    (i mean like shift self AND enemy for the same missing attack)

    the flavour of Gale Force Defense sounds like some sort of martial Mage Armor and i kinda like it. the works of it seems to "resemble" the halflings racial ability. just one question to this: isn't it a problem that this "stance" is a daily power? (i didn't read about stances yet, so sorry if it sounds stupid)

    Dazzling Dance of Death:
    uhm... if my dexterity mod is higher than 2 then how does the 2nd attack hit? (like the target slides 4 and shift 2... wouldn't that be out of reach? even with the +1 reach from the lvl11 feat)

    also did you take the -2 all def take into account when you gave +2 bonus on the secondary attack? i see no problem with it, just asking.

    uhm and shouldn't the damage increase with the attacks? even with the attack bonuses it's not likely that the 3rd attack will hit so a daily power could have a bigger kick. (with the movement involved you could end up being isolated with an enemy)

    EDIT: seems like a very good striker/controller class
    1. Mistype on Dazzling Parries. You Slide the Opponent when they miss, not yourself. It should be an Immediate Reaction I guess, that was also a mistype.
    2. I think you only get one immediate action per round, so you can't use dazzling parries and critical strike on the same foe
    3. Just realized Gale Force Defense is a touch overpowered. WIll ad -2 all defences as well
    4. Stances last until the end of the encounter, until you lose consciousness, or until you activate another stance
    5. The power source should probably be arcane, what with all the wind themed stuff
    6 The attack bonuses on the daily do not account for the defences penalties.
    7. The damage doesn't go up, but the mass chaos does. It's meant to be a controller-style defender approach, that focuses on keeping the DM awake.
    8. The reach has to be modified to note that it is only for melee basic attacks

    I'll edit all of this in in a bit.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    with Dazzling Dance of Death... it sounds like you could easy end up being alone. your target will be wounded and dazed but you would be pretty much "behind enemy lines".

    the Gale Force Defense sounds bad for a daily power.
    being daily you will try to use it in a "final" kind of battle. and in the same battle you will use your DazzDeathDance because it a "final" kind of battle. but with the -2 attack you lower your own chances for the first hit and with that you could ruin the whole attack. it actually weakens the daily attack power... so i suggest you make it an encounter power instead.

    shouldn't this class have like a close burst roundhouse-cut attack? like sickling winds or kamaitachi or whirlwind or tornado? and then those "hit" by the close burst would slide 1, take 1[W]+DexMod force damage and have an effect on them which makes them throw attacks twice and take the lower (and you could minor sustain that effect). i suggest this would be a daily power.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    with Dazzling Dance of Death... it sounds like you could easy end up being alone. your target will be wounded and dazed but you would be pretty much "behind enemy lines".

    the Gale Force Defense sounds bad for a daily power.
    being daily you will try to use it in a "final" kind of battle. and in the same battle you will use your DazzDeathDance because it a "final" kind of battle. but with the -2 attack you lower your own chances for the first hit and with that you could ruin the whole attack. it actually weakens the daily attack power... so i suggest you make it an encounter power instead.

    shouldn't this class have like a close burst roundhouse-cut attack? like sickling winds or kamaitachi or whirlwind or tornado? and then those "hit" by the close burst would slide 1, take 1[W]+DexMod force damage and have an effect on them which makes them throw attacks twice and take the lower (and you could minor sustain that effect). i suggest this would be a daily power.
    Dazzling Dance of Death is meant for all-our brawls to try and take some semblance of control over the battle field.

    Gale Force Defense is for when you need to work defensively to stay alive.

    Most people don't but all their dailies in one encounter, so to speak. So you wouldn't save them for the same encounter.

    That being said, I might change the daily from "Dazzling Dance of Death" to "Blade Whirlwind", and make it close burst 2 and fling people around. That would probably be a better choice. Will post it up once I've had a chance to think it out.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Dazzling Parries and Blade Whirlwind both depends on DEX, which is fine for STR based characters, but with rogues it is too good. I'd recommend making it based on CON instead, because everybody needs it, so it will be tangible, but nobody's will be too high, because DEX is more important (And probably STR too).
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zocelot View Post
    Dazzling Parries and Blade Whirlwind both depends on DEX, which is fine for STR based characters, but with rogues it is too good. I'd recommend making it based on CON instead, because everybody needs it, so it will be tangible, but nobody's will be too high, because DEX is more important (And probably STR too).
    Actually, the fluff I'm developing for this class doesn't fit with rogues. They were actually tagged on as an afterthought n e ways.
    So, they shall be removed from the allowed class list, and the dex dependency will stay the same.
    Also, made it so that Gale Force Defense applies to enemy ranged attacks too. If wind is whipping around you in protection, it will deflect projectiles too. Evens out with the - defense penalty I think.
    Last edited by Shadow_Elf; 2008-09-27 at 09:47 PM.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Blade Whirlwind...
    okay... i see how it works but i also see problems.

    with all the hit-power things ... shouldn't it be Dexterity vs. Fortitude? (push/pull/slide/shift)

    with one attack you do "damage", "slide", "prone", "dazed", "slow", "-2 saving
    throws" and that sounds too good (this would work way too good on a bridge).

    how about on hit damage and if you beat your opponents defense by 5 or more it fall prone and slides dexmod squares and if you beat it by 10 or more then it even gets also slowed, dazed and -2 to saving throws.

    it's better than doing saving throws (as that would take a hell of time) but still puts some limit on the effect.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    Blade Whirlwind...
    okay... i see how it works but i also see problems.

    with all the hit-power things ... shouldn't it be Dexterity vs. Fortitude? (push/pull/slide/shift)

    with one attack you do "damage", "slide", "prone", "dazed", "slow", "-2 saving
    throws" and that sounds too good (this would work way too good on a bridge).

    how about on hit damage and if you beat your opponents defense by 5 or more it fall prone and slides dexmod squares and if you beat it by 10 or more then it even gets also slowed, dazed and -2 to saving throws.

    it's better than doing saving throws (as that would take a hell of time) but still puts some limit on the effect.
    Vs. Fortitude might make sense, but in case you have not noticed, its a level 20 daily that only does 1[W]. At level 21, your melee basic attack does more damage than this. Its only real feature is the massive amount of status effects, which can turn the tide of the battle without inflicting very much pain.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    uhm... yeah low damage... but you could easily swoop a giant into a lava pit and you could have a hard time trying to make kobolds slide away.

    fortitude would balance it... bigger stuff has bigger fortitude, smaller size smaller fortitude.
    but AC does decrease with size increments. this means that you can slide away bigger/heavier foes more easy than small ones.

    EDIT: if you think it's too weak against fortitude then add an attack bonus but AC sounds unreasonable as this attack is clearly wind power vs. creature mass. wind will blow everywhere inside the area of effect but it might not be enough to blow that particular creature away.

    ADDITION:
    what about creatures which occupy more than one squares inside the area of effect (like a giant standing right at the Gale)? multiple attacks? some kind of summed bonus to the attack? no difference at all?
    Last edited by Rigon; 2008-09-28 at 12:44 PM.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    uhm... yeah low damage... but you could easily swoop a giant into a lava pit and you could have a hard time trying to make kobolds slide away.

    fortitude would balance it... bigger stuff has bigger fortitude, smaller size smaller fortitude.
    but AC does decrease with size increments. this means that you can slide away bigger/heavier foes more easy than small ones.

    EDIT: if you think it's too weak against fortitude then add an attack bonus but AC sounds unreasonable as this attack is clearly wind power vs. creature mass. wind will blow everywhere inside the area of effect but it might not be enough to blow that particular creature away.

    ADDITION:
    what about creatures which occupy more than one squares inside the area of effect (like a giant standing right at the Gale)? multiple attacks? some kind of summed bonus to the attack? no difference at all?
    AC going down with size is a 3.Xe way of thinking. They got rid of that in 4e. Also, enemies get saving throws against being thrown off of cliffs as an immediate interrupt. Area attacks don't hit large creatures more than once. If it occupies a space close up further away, it is met with weapon damage, not force damage. To sum up: Creature size makes no difference to this power. Also, Vs. Fortitude makes it better, not worse. As a rule of thumb, creatures' base Fortitude tends to be ~2 lower than their AC, more or less depending on their CON, STR, INT and DEX. AC has the most potential modifiers of any defence, and as such, tends to be the highest defence a creature possesses.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    ...i have to read the PHB again.

    "To sum up: Creature size makes no difference to this power."
    and this is the problem. it should be harder to slide bigger opponents and easier to slide smaller ones.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    ...i have to read the PHB again.

    "To sum up: Creature size makes no difference to this power."
    and this is the problem. it should be harder to slide bigger opponents and easier to slide smaller ones.
    Creature size doesn't have a bearing on any of the sliding rogue powers. There is a level 1 rogue daily that lets you slide the target one square (regardless of size) and then, for the rest of the encounter, slide them 1 square after every hit you get on them. You could very easily slide them into flanks, off of cliffs, into bonfires etc. repeatedly, regardless of size. At level 1.

    So, while Creature Size does not affect this power, it also should not affect this power.
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    hmm... i'm beaten.

    i'll try to post something as an argument if i have one after i read the PHB again.
    but i assume this is a permanent defeat. i'm no longer recommending a change in the power because the rogue is quite a strong argument there.

    a question of informative sort:
    how would you resolve the slide for the targets?
    from outer ones first? (to make room for the inner ones)
    from inner ones first? (any damage done for hitting the outer ones?)
    i think there was a rule for damage when a forcefully moved character was unable to complete the move... 1D6 for each blocked square? i have to read the books...

    i think that a Blade Gale could have +6 Dexterity Modifier. so...
    how do we determine where to move the enemies?
    simply "straight line away" or how?
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    Default Re: [4e Paragon Path) "I shall cut us a swath through those foes... Or three"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigon View Post
    a question of informative sort:
    how would you resolve the slide for the targets?
    from outer ones first? (to make room for the inner ones)
    from inner ones first? (any damage done for hitting the outer ones?)
    i think there was a rule for damage when a forcefully moved character was unable to complete the move... 1D6 for each blocked square? i have to read the books...

    i think that a Blade Gale could have +6 Dexterity Modifier. so...
    how do we determine where to move the enemies?
    simply "straight line away" or how?
    You pick what order you attack them in, according to how you want your sliding to resolve.
    +6 Dex modifier is possible, but unlikely, as the three base classes that could use this make use of Strength, Intelligence, Constitution and Wisdom (not all of them) as well as Dexterity.
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