OOTS #597 - The Discussion Thread

[J.Gellert]

"You cannot defeat stupidity."

V-man is badass, but it's a good thing Elan didn't get it, I suppose.

[Noobfish]

For what it's worth, V. clearly hasn't *completely* lost it, or Elan would be a pile of dust right now. To use the Evil Willow parallel that has been brought up in other posts, V. is at the stage that Willow was at when she not-so-subtly threatened Giles after he scolded Willow for bringing Buffy back from the dead. That's not good.

Maybe he was out of Disintegrate's...

Nah, it was a scare tactic. V wanted to feel as badass as he is.

[Setra]

If by "fight" you mean "Vaarsuvius transforming Elan into a shapely pile of ash" then yes, you would be correct

You forget

A stiff breeze could probably knock V down to negative hp at this point. S/he is already heavily damaged.

Though Elan would never attack first...

[Greep]

Meh, this is more like the kind of "DIE NOW!!!!!" a friend might say after pulling a prank on them.

However, this is like the first time V is genuinely pissed at Elan, barring when Elan wanted to be a wizard. OOoo scary!

[bue52]

Damn, Elan just balanced out his recent competence with truckloads of fail. I know he's supposed to be something of a comic relief character, but that had to be the worst language comprehension job ever.

As for V, it needs to pass out for about a week and then get laid. I have no problem with evil characters but threatening to kill your friends is completely out of line for someone who is at worst supposed to be neutral.

Personally, I think its his "stupidity" that just saved him, if he were any smarter, he would probably be fighting against V right now, its because he may or may not have acted so much like his old self, V would not have just brush him of and may actually cast disintegrate on him.

Did anyone else notice how Belkar said self-buddy and not Elf-buddy?

[Osgiliath]

Haha! Well its great to know that Elan still retains his "less then 10" Intelligence score. Not only did the previous few comics raise the idea that Elan has been getting "smarter," but it was great for his first major display of stupidity ended up saving his life...I want a cookie.

[Oracle_Hunter]

It was close enough that I could imagine others here posting the trope just for the heck of it.

Hardly.

Contrary to what many may think, some of us link to Tropes to better highlight the history and underlying aim of a device used in a story. Heck, it's hard to get the full value from many of Rich's pages if you don't have an appreciation for the history of storytelling. TV Tropes just happens to be a helpful Wiki for those of us who weren't English Majors

WARNING - TROPE DISCUSSION AHEAD

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And a quick look at Hannibal Lecture reveals that there was nothing in this page which remotely resembled it. The Lecture is used by a prisoner to shake the nerve of his captor, who believes that the Lecturer is completely in his or her power. Often, a Hannibal Lecture is used to unsettle the viewer and, in particular, to enhance the menace of a supposedly disarmed villain.

Here, Elan wasn't threatening V, nor did he believe that V was at his mercy - he was just stating the point that V had crossed a line, and that Elan wasn't going to stand up for em anymore. V's not-so-subtle threat was just that - a threat - and a signal to the reader that V is terribly close to crossing a Moral Event Horizon, which should cause the reader to worry about V's future in OotS and the safety of the other protagonists on the ships.

Tropes are a jargon like any other. They make it easier for people to discuss topics within a specialized subject area - they should not be used merely to show one's own "mastery" of the language of said field.

EDIT:
I do not think that Elan was "saved" by his stupidity - I think he was deliberately using Obfuscating Stupidity to head off a fight he did not want to have. If we learned nothing else from #596, we should note how mature Elan sounds there. Or, at least, he is sounding more mature than he has sounded before.

Out from under the watchful eye of Big Brother Roy Elan is beginning to see the consequences of his own actions, and to take responsibility for them. Elan saw that V had gone over the edge, and he neither wanted to kill V himself or die in the attempt, so he fell back on his knowledge of V's quick exasperation with the clueless.

The proof of this theory will be in V's next actions. If he tells Durkon/Hinjo about V's actions and expresses concern for V's mental state, then he is more perceptive than he used to be. If, however, he just goes and tattles on V, then he is perhaps not as grown up as I think he is... but he is growing, bit by bit.

[Noobfish]

@ Oracle Hunter: I stand corrected.

[Enlong]

You forget

A stiff breeze could probably knock V down to negative hp at this point. S/he is already heavily damaged.

Though Elan would never attack first...

There are only two possible openings. One where Elan attacks first, and one where Vaarsuvius does so.
If Vaarsuvius takes the first shot, it would kill Elan flat out. Disintegrate, Prismatic Spray, whatever, Elan's life is automatically forfeit.
Elan, romantic relationships aside, is a moral man. If he takes the first shot, it will not be a fatal one. However, Vaarsuvius' retaliation would be.
Quid quo pro.

[JonahFalcon]

Elan is stupid. Stupid like a fox.

[ArlEammon]

I hypothesize Vaarsuvius will cross the threshold from evil to good again..
The pat through evil will leave a divinely powerful god/goddess of magic regretful of her actions and perhaps some sort of self-sacrifice.

[krossbow]

Meh.


personally i'm not afraid for elan's safety.


V doesn't appear to have any visible protective wards up, and he's been heavily damaged. Furthermore, Elan has higher Dexterity. By warning him of the risk, V inadvertantly may have forfeited a suprise round and would have set up a straight initiative roll; one which elan would have probably won.





Besides, contrary to what many people seem to think, magic is VERY finite in 3.5 D&D. V's already used up a metric ton of spells, including quickened ones. I doubt he has much Juice left to fry Elan with.


All Elan would have to do to send V down would probably be one good rapier and pun to send V to the floor.

[jamroar]

A stiff breeze could probably knock V down to negative hp at this point. S/he is already heavily damaged.

On the contrary, I think he's oddly not badly hurt, or perhaps even unscathed at this point. He even refused any healing from Durkon with confidence for some reason.

[factotum]

Surely everyone has to accept now that V is on the slippery slope to somewhere bad...

[JonahFalcon]

So what is V going to do knowing Elan is going to tell Hinjo?

Well, since V isn't attacking Elan, guess who the target is.

I said it in the last two threads: Hinjoburger.

[Welf]

Did anyone else notice how Belkar said self-buddy and not Elf-buddy?

Jep. Probably because V just said that the group was more efficient when the Belcster was still part of the group.

[JonahFalcon]

Surely everyone has to accept now that V is on the slippery slope to somewhere bad...

You mean you didn't see that weeks ago?

[Noobfish]

Still, his charisma only applies to attack rolls, right? I don't he could out enough damage to end V before V had the chance to do something. V could always cast Invisibility if it didn't look too good for V.

[RMS Oceanic]

I get the feeling that V's issues will not go away, even if (s)he succeeds in the goal of locating Haley. Around 554, I thought a lecture from Roy and/or Haley could set him right, especially with Roy's cynical view of magic, but I'm worried we're past that point, and it'll take something much bigger. Also,

(War and XPs)

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The candidate for Order Member who will pay a high price to re-unite the Order is being strongly hinted in one certain direction.

[dogmac]

Er... V....

Actually, no, don't want to say anything to V in case (s)he notices me and hurts me.

[Juliwen]

I don't know about that. If Elan was just playing like he didn't get it, that would actually have been a really smart way to resolve the situation without directly challenging V.

That's precisely what I think. (And if he was NOT playing it, than probably there was really something in that potion he drank after Therkla's death)

And don't judge V. so quickly. I still believe he/she's good, just tired/hurt/cursed - he/she might have been hit with some spell or some of his efforts to find Haley had unexpected side effects - he/she should be healed, not damned!

[Oracle_Hunter]

You mean you didn't see that weeks ago?

Perhaps he did, but judging by the Sound and Fury over V's alignment, there are some out there who saw little or no slope, slippery or otherwise.

[Niknokitueu]

Oooh, nasty!

Well, it seems the long-awaited fall of V is approaching ever faster (possibly within 3 issues, possibly not).

Shame, really, that we had a near 'kick the dog' moment in order to illustrate this, but there you go.

I do like that both characters behaved 'true to form' (even if V's 'form' is degenerating with every appearance).

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Maybe 600 will be their 'reaffirmation' to get on with finding Haley and Roy...

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
ps. I really think you Aced this part of the plot arc Rich, I just do not like what it is having to do to the team in the process...

[JonahFalcon]

I think we have to review what Ye Olde Kobold Oracle said.

I think Hinjo may be saved by a certain dwarf who will return to his homeland in a coffin.

[David Argall]

Oh dear...

This is not cuddle toy territory...

Now I will hold out hope for temporary insanity here. Because there is little sense to this collection of behaviors.

But I get the impression this the author trying to beat a point in with a stick.

[Rad]

Yay! Dumbness FTW!
Or was it a bluff check?

[Shadic]

After reading the comic the second time, I think that Vaarsuvius may simply have been trying to Intimidate Elan into not telling Hinjo.

Then again, as of right now, it's hard to tell.

[JonahFalcon]

After reading the comic the second time, I think that Vaarsuvius may simply have been trying to Intimidate Elan into not telling Hinjo.

Then again, as of right now, it's hard to tell.

Yes, but since Elan is going to tell Hinjo, V is going to Plan B.

Anyway, V is annoyed at having to deal with finding Haley and rezzing Roy in the first place, since that was getting in the way of the entire mission to kill Xykon in the first place. (Forget the lich already?)

[Oracle_Hunter]

After reading the comic the second time, I think that Vaarsuvius may simply have been trying to Intimidate Elan into not telling Hinjo.

Then again, as of right now, it's hard to tell.

Oh yes, that is V's aim. However, the question is whether that Intimidate was backed up with a Bluff or a Disintegrate

PS: It was a Disintegrate

[Shott]

Epic. V is getting crazy.