125 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 113

[Godskook]

Question: What is Erfworld's reality?

From my perspective, it seems as if Erfworld is a reality that is based thematically on an RPG, but RPGs are almost always an attempt to approximate the real world, except as explained by the creator. Basic concepts like 'days', 'time', 'food', 'life', 'fire', and so on are generally assumed to work as normal when the RPG environment approximates normal. Frodo not dying when impaled by the troll in LOTR, was shocking for both the movie-goers and fellowship members. Houses set on fire burn unless explained otherwise. My understanding leads me to believe the following:

a)Unless otherwise stated in canon, assume things function like they do on earth
b)All game mechanics shown in Erfworld are merely the locals trying to understand themselves the way we try to understand ourselves, by assigning values to it.

[Krelon]

Question: What is Erfworld's reality?

From my perspective, it seems as if Erfworld is a reality that is based thematically on an RPG, but RPGs are almost always an attempt to approximate the real world, except as explained by the creator. Basic concepts like 'days', 'time', 'food', 'life', 'fire', and so on are generally assumed to work as normal when the RPG environment approximates normal. Frodo not dying when impaled by the troll in LOTR, was shocking for both the movie-goers and fellowship members. Houses set on fire burn unless explained otherwise. My understanding leads me to believe the following:

a)Unless otherwise stated in canon, assume things function like they do on earth
b)All game mechanics shown in Erfworld are merely the locals trying to understand themselves the way we try to understand ourselves, by assigning values to it.

Wait a second .. RPG like in Role Playing Games? I do not second that motion, I rather think Erf is based on round-based strategy games like for example warlords, age of wonders and many more.

ad a) That's not really an option when for example you have people that float (the Transsylvitos) while on earth all things tend to fall down.

ad b) The locals ans Parson with his glasses actually see the stats printed next to each unit, it's not the way they try to understand it it's more like solid stats that you can see when hovering your mouse over unit in a game or right clicking on it. There is not much interpretation to it and it doesn't change with the mood of the unit or how they think about each other.

[Gez]

b)All game mechanics shown in Erfworld are merely the locals trying to understand themselves the way we try to understand ourselves, by assigning values to it.

Casters and commanders can see unit stats.

[fendrin]

Are you coming from the strategy gamer corner? Things like free will for units (defecting units?) are not really desired (it is usually only annoying) while the game itself is a lot of fun. Free will is something for players not for pawns and I can live with that and still have fun with the comic. I could do without Parsons angst though I'm aware that some readers are not really interested in the strategic/tactic panels and prefer the emotional part.

To me, it seems that in Erf there are no players behind the power blocks so the free will is limited to "persons" who are the rulers of a side (they have no one that they must be loyal to above them) and Parson who is from our world.

Actually, I come from multiple perspectives; I am a strategy gamer, a philosopher, a literary analyst, a computer programmer, an artist, a roleplayer, an actor, and many other things which influence my perceptions of Erfworld.*

I strive to be a complex person, and I enjoy complex things. Erfworld is one of those things.

*Note: I'm not claiming to be good at all those things...

My understanding leads me to believe the following:

a)Unless otherwise stated in canon, assume things function like they do on earth
b)All game mechanics shown in Erfworld are merely the locals trying to understand themselves the way we try to understand ourselves, by assigning values to it.

I agree with your first point. It is pretty much a necessity when exploring a fictional world.

Your second point I disagree with; we have concrete evidence* of 'game mechanics' in Erfworld that are not purely based on Erfling interpretation: the four visible stats. Most of the 'game mechanics' we know of, however, you could be correct about.

*Note: inasmuch as any 'evidence' in a fictional world can be concrete

[CaptC]

Oh, don't go all epistemological on us. Accept what the author's say as known, and we can argue about what it means without getting too deep to have meaningful converse.

We know there is a mystery about Wanda. Typical captured units have low loyalty scores, but we have pretty good evidence that Wanda is very loyal to Stanley. So either she's an atypical captured unit (*shrug* it happens) or she's not captured.

We have lots of room for suspicions. Wanda doesn't act captured and can compel wills, we haven't seen Faq's metaphorical body or Banhammer's real one, and we have a master class foolamancer running around loose. Any plot twist you can imagine can hang on those hooks.

As for predictions? I'll predict we get to see Jack do something interesting, and then we go back to Wanda. She has to be hosing people pretty good, so Stanley can boop things up by ending the turn early. (Mentioning this was pretty significant foreshadowing, if you ask me.) That will set Parson up to pull out yet another miracle on the wall, cementing his cred as ultimate warlord.

[fendrin]

Oh, don't go all epistemological on us. Accept what the author's say as known, and we can argue about what it means without getting too deep to have meaningful converse.

Who's getting epistemological? If I went that way I would simply apply Descartes' "evil genius" and declare that I don't know anything beyond my own existence.

I do not doubt what the authors tell us; however I do sometimes doubt what characters tell other characters especially when the former has reason to lie to the latter, or the former being misinformed could be a plot point.

Parson started off looking for an exploit. He has kind of abandoned that at this point, focusing instead on creative use of the rules as he understands them.

Should he start looking for an exploit again, one way to do so would be to try to test some of the assumptions of his advisers.

Thus Wanda, Sizemore, or Maggie having an incorrect understanding of the world could be plot relevant; therefore I choose not to ignore the possibility.

[Godskook]

Well, er, I know I wrote b) as a standalone statement, but it was meant as building upon a) (Much like the three laws of robotics). So, to amend myself, b) is not referring to game mechanics which are explicitly stated in canon to be mechanics, such as transylvito units that fly without wings, and turn-base rules, and unit stats.

However, Parson's ability to see unit stats is granted by a magical item, so we don't really know if commanders/casters actually see numbers or if they approximate, much akin to how we guess each other's ages by looking.

[Aquillion]

Casters and commanders can see unit stats.

But are those the unit's actual capabilities (is there really some variable somewhere in Jillian's body that determines her strength?) Or is it a magically-provided convenience for casters and commanders that translates a unit's existing capabilities into a rough numerical guideline? Basically, are units governed by stats, or are the stats just a useful way of describing them?

I would be inclined to say the former (the fact that units 'level up' implies that they really are governed by stats.) But it's still possible that "loyalty" isn't really a hidden stat, and that Erfworlders just interpret it that way because everything else in their world is governed by stats, so why not loyalty?

[fendrin]

Well, er, I know I wrote b) as a standalone statement, but it was meant as building upon a) (Much like the three laws of robotics). So, to amend myself, b) is not referring to game mechanics which are explicitly stated in canon to be mechanics, such as transylvito units that fly without wings, and turn-base rules, and unit stats.

However, Parson's ability to see unit stats is granted by a magical item, so we don't really know if commanders/casters actually see numbers or if they approximate, much akin to how we guess each other's ages by looking.

Here we see a view of Jillian's stats (as presented by the lookamancer trio) that looks very similar (though not identical) to what parson sees.

This at minimum implies that commanders see actual numbers (though not necessarily integers like in Parson's display).

I would be inclined to say the former (the fact that units 'level up' implies that they really are governed by stats.)

'leveling up', though typically representing a change in multiple stats at once, could simply be Erf slang for advancement in general. As such, the 'leveled' stats could be a representation of skills that have improved due to practice; this is in fact what 'leveling up' in a gaming sense often represents.

[MrWeaver]

Today is the daaay :)

[MrWeaver]

:( Darn it.

[Lamech]

@Weaver, umm... the day is not yet old. Anyway the current tension in the two comics is driving me crazy. Its the climatic climax times 3! .

But are those the unit's actual capabilities (is there really some variable somewhere in Jillian's body that determines her strength?) Or is it a magically-provided convenience for casters and commanders that translates a unit's existing capabilities into a rough numerical guideline? Basically, are units governed by stats, or are the stats just a useful way of describing them?

I would be inclined to say the former (the fact that units 'level up' implies that they really are governed by stats.) But it's still possible that "loyalty" isn't really a hidden stat, and that Erfworlders just interpret it that way because everything else in their world is governed by stats, so why not loyalty?

I would say that stats describe their ablities, otherwise Parson would really screw with the world, and things that don't have stats, like pigions, fire and stubbing your toe, would be way to complicated. Obviously the erfworlders have capablities that are not the results of normal physics and pysiology. Look at dwagon's breath, the gwiffion's flight, or the scouts reporting. I am going to assume that those things are all the result of natural magic. I suspect that the uber-strength and ablity to take what should be a deadly hit is natural magic induced as well.

Hmm... for a far out conjecture: stats are mearly the magical buffs that a unit has from erf-world.

[Welf]

BTW: Gobwin Knob needs flying Warlords. The Arkenhammer probably can create an indefinite number of pigeons a.k.a. flying units out of nuts. If they combine the transylvito style with Parsons selective attack tactic this could probably be the game breaker Parson was looking for. Assuming the pigeons could be used for fight.

[MattR]

Parsons next step involving Maggie:

He's going to contact the other coalition members and/or Ansom and inform them about the overwhelming defeat in the tunnels.

[MattR]

BTW: Gobwin Knob needs flying Warlords. The Arkenhammer probably can create an indefinite number of pigeons a.k.a. flying units out of nuts. If they combine the transylvito style with Parsons selective attack tactic this could probably be the game breaker Parson was looking for. Assuming the pigeons could be used for fight.

Those pigeons turn back into walnuts: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0037.html

Being attacked by nuts is gonna be marginally less intimidating.

[shamelessmerc]

Assuming the pigeons could be used for fight.

speaking as an aeronautical engineer... birdstrike is a fearful thing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike

of course, no unit thus far has relied on gas-turbine engines....

I've always wanted to design a game in which WW1 biplanes fight against dragons...am I just crazy or does anyone else like the idea?

[Aquillion]

I would say that stats describe their ablities, otherwise Parson would really screw with the world, and things that don't have stats, like pigions, fire and stubbing your toe, would be way to complicated. Obviously the erfworlders have capablities that are not the results of normal physics and pysiology. Look at dwagon's breath, the gwiffion's flight, or the scouts reporting. I am going to assume that those things are all the result of natural magic. I suspect that the uber-strength and ablity to take what should be a deadly hit is natural magic induced as well.

Hmm... for a far out conjecture: stats are mearly the magical buffs that a unit has from erf-world.

But Parson doesn't seem to have stats, at least not that anyone can see (aside from his leadership bonus, anyway, which doesn't impact him directly.)