125 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 113

[teratorn]

Er, nothing in that linked strip is dead, so how, exactly, is that evidence that flying things float after death?

First panel, dwagon with the Xs for eyes.

[T-O-E]

Note that in Erfworld 125, Jillian says there are 11 warlords on her side. Only 8 are pictured here, plus Jillian and Vinny. So who is the eleventh warlord?

Looks like something's standing behind Blonde vampire, although that could be an extension of her hair.

[SteveMB]

Thinking about the dwagon donut.... why did they need to use bats as a decoy at all? Vinny and Ansom were in the same stack, so Vinny's warlord bonus would have applied making them at the very least standard units and Ansom was in the stack so they'd have got a chief warlord bonus. Even if the bonus wouldn't have worked the same as it does with Caesar (i.e. turning them into heavies) it makes that particular instance a little less dire.

Most likely, the quantity of bats available to them just wasn't enough to do the Zerg-rush tactic, even with the bonuses they could give to the individual bats. At this battle, they have hundreds of bats; at the dwagon donut, they had at most 28 (this list shows 29 Transyvito units).

[Lamech]

Er, nothing in that linked strip is dead, so how, exactly, is that evidence that flying things float after death? Wanda uncwoaking the dead flying things that the air defenses killed that are most certainly NOT floating anymore rather disproves your idea, I would say. So I'd say Ceasar is not dead, just wounded (probably badly) and likely suffering some electrical stun from what appears to be residual lightning still crackling off him. From the body language of both him and Stanley before the blast, his body clearing being blasted backwards by the impact, and the extra lightning arcs to his flying body I'd say Caesar was indeed struck directly by the Arkenhammer which is what triggered the aoe, rather than merely being struck by the aoe alone. His bats were struck by the aoe, but none appear to have been blasted backwards like Caesar, so I think direct impact with the arkenhammer is certain. Jillian was only struck by the aoe of the air defenses back in GK, rather than directly by a weapon, which is why she did not get blasted back/up.

Erm... their are four dead things actually. Their is a dead dwagon and a recroaked warlord in the first panel, which are the important things. Now dwagon is not in free fall. First off if that was the case Jenkins would not be falling off to the side, because he and the dwagon would be at the same rate. Secondly the dwagon would not have arched its body down, but it would still be straight like it was right before its death; the dwagon should be acting as if every part was accelerating at the same rate which does not happen here. So something must be holding the dwagons up. As we can see dead flying things float kind of like ballons sometimes. Also notice in the second to last panel Jillian kills the dwagon, and then in the last panel she can look up and smile at Ansom, not quickly begin falling. Not as strong, but still evidence.

Your right about him getting the main shot from the AoE, even so heavies can't take the AoE and the AoE attack also can smash one high level warlord, so it is pretty dang devastating.

[kagato23]

This story arc is a shell of what I was expecting. I thought he would make the circuit back to GK after fizzling out at the battle here, or being entangled in one of Jack's illusions. Instead, we see Stanley switched, no, transformed into a true warlord, the load on Jack's mind lifted, and Jillian out of her cell, resisting her weaknesses, Wanda battering the good guys, and Parson insulated from the entire thing. Hopefully all of these parallel events will occasionally alternate.

But, I guess I still enjoy this series.

See, I'm the polar opposite. We always heard Stanley shined as a warlord, we finally get to see the how. We also saw what it took to break jack into sanity: Luv (DAWWWWWW!). Which now creates for us a big debate about if this is a good thing or a bad: Does a sane jack for love now turn against a master whom he probably has an all-time-low loyalty towards after insanity and finding out the women he cares for is alive, or does Jillian's sudden hesitation seeing the old friend stay her hand long enough to Stanley to plow through her?

All that, plus two epic fights in a row. I'm feeling pretty good with where we are at.

[vrellum]

My personal guess is that Jillian, being unsure of being able to kill Stanley before he gets past her, AND almost certainly wanting Jack back, will elect to kill Stanleys dwagon rather than try for Stanley, and then rescue the now-falling Jack, while Stanley flies off using the Arkenhammer and is picked up by another dwagon and escapes.

My guess is that if bats in the chief warlord's personal stack are upgraded "almost to heavies" then that dragon that Stanley is riding is gonna be very tough. It's got the Overlord's bonus and the artifact bonus. It was already a huge beast and reds are apparently the toughest type. So I doubt that Jillian could kill it. Though she's probably sporting several bonuses herself as are her troops.

I don't understand why the dragons haven't used their breath weapons. Perhaps it's because TV set up an ambush, so they get to act first?

Also Stanley might not have finished off Ceasar because of how movement works. Often times dragons are fast, but not agile flyers. It might take Stanley several move actions to get the dragon back around the Caesar.

[Suicide Junkie]

Erm... their are four dead things actually. Their is a dead dwagon and a recroaked warlord in the first panel, which are the important things. Now dwagon is not in free fall. First off if that was the case Jenkins would not be falling off to the side, because he and the dwagon would be at the same rate. Secondly the dwagon would not have arched its body down, but it would still be straight like it was right before its death; the dwagon should be acting as if every part was accelerating at the same rate which does not happen here. So something must be holding the dwagons up. As we can see dead flying things float kind of like ballons sometimes. Also notice in the second to last panel Jillian kills the dwagon, and then in the last panel she can look up and smile at Ansom, not quickly begin falling. Not as strong, but still evidence.

The dead dwagon still has wings, giving it a large cross section, and lift in the center (but not the head or tail!). The dwagon, being a flying unit would fall slower than the warlord.

Remember; things only fall at the same rate in a vacuum, or where their differences in aerodynamics vs mass balance out.

In the first panel, Jillian has climbed off of a dead dwagon back onto one of her Gwiffons, and the dwagon is dropping. She wouldn't have made a leap that high, and the gwiffon would have stopped descending to follow the dwagon once she had grabbed on tight.

In the last few panels, you've noticed that she goes from eye-level with Ansom to *looking up* at him with her sword in the dwagon's brain. Then he catches her. That's a falling dwagon! :)

[dr pepper]

Has it ever been answered whether Vinny and gang are classed as living or undead?

Living. The grayish skin and fangs are just the ethnic traits of their tribe. They don't suck blood, shapeshift, or avoid sunlight. They also have no built in mindcontrol.

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

Note that in Erfworld 125, Jillian says there are 11 warlords on her side. Only 8 are pictured here, plus Jillian and Vinny. So who is the eleventh warlord?

space issue?
It's only a small frame that one... maybe he/she is behind someone else or just behind the edge of the frame.

The blonde transilvita is pointing her index-finger at her cheek it seems...

I know which Transilvitan will certainly die in this fight...






the one in the red shirt of course!

[Dys]

Van de Graaf? What a shocking turn of events.

Always amusing to see how Erfworld is grounded in things from current culture.

I suppose that Stanley's tactical options were to Charge, or maybe to Bolt?

Is there any way that Caesar could have the capacitance to survive such battery?

Now that Jack has recognized Jillian, do you think he'll offer Stanley some resistance? Or will he keep discharging his duty to Stanley so he can return ohm?

I can only see this thread polarizing the forum even more.

It's hard to see how the stakes could be amp'ed up any further.

Okay, you got me. I've been reading and lurking since the start of Erfworld, and I never bothered registering until now. And I'm registering and posting SOLELY to tell you how bad those puns were. So congratulations on dragging this lurker into the sun.

Dys.

[Laurentio II]

Why aren't the dwagons blasting the bats with their breath weapons?
It's the Tool's turn so he should have been able to attack first?

Ambush. Probably, Transylvito has a free attack round. But seeing Stanley face, and by action-comic convention, next page should be dwagon's time.

[xopher.tm]

Just registered to say that that was a great reference to Michael Jackson's Beat It in panel 3.

Without scouring through the whole thread (and I'm sure it's already been pointed out), this is still reffing West Side Story. ;)

[Lamech]

The dead dwagon still has wings, giving it a large cross section, and lift in the center (but not the head or tail!). The dwagon, being a flying unit would fall slower than the warlord.

Remember; things only fall at the same rate in a vacuum, or where their differences in aerodynamics vs mass balance out.

In the first panel, Jillian has climbed off of a dead dwagon back onto one of her Gwiffons, and the dwagon is dropping. She wouldn't have made a leap that high, and the gwiffon would have stopped descending to follow the dwagon once she had grabbed on tight.

In the last few panels, you've noticed that she goes from eye-level with Ansom to *looking up* at him with her sword in the dwagon's brain. Then he catches her. That's a falling dwagon! :)

Notice how the highest part of the dwagon is not the wings, if those wings were producing lift they would not be down, but up in the air. And things keep the same accleration until they start becoming significantly close to max velocity. Which would be fairly high for the dwagon and high for Jillian. Close to terminal velocity they would both be deadly fast and probably kill anything in their path.

[VariaVespasa]

First panel, dwagon with the Xs for eyes.

Hmm, maybe. They certainly fall at some point though, or Wanda would have had to be flying around on the flying mount GK didnt have anymore in order to reach her new airforce to uncwoak it to have something to fly around on... :P May not be till end of turn, or end of battle though. So maybe Caesars fate is uncertain. If he's toast though, that should be it for Transylvito though, since it was his hex-wide bonus that was making the bats viable.

Armored or not, Jillian is a lvl 9 warlord with a big sword, so I'm not worried about her ability to one-shot Stanleys dwagon. Although if things dont fall immediately then it makes that a less certain method of saving Jack, since Stanley has more time to get another ride to him to pick them both up. We dont know if he can lift a passenger with the Arkenhammer or not.

[xopher.tm]

It's from the video clip of Micheal Jacksons "Beat it", the song mixes rock and pop-music.

West Side Story.

Also, everyone knows you can't dancefight with a battleaxe.

[Ragn Charran]

I know which Transilvitan will certainly die in this fight...

the one in the red shirt of course!

Check frame 3, her positioning compared to the big green suggests she either just took one hell of a hit or is about to.

[teratorn]

In previous strips it was not clear if Stanley's mount was bigger than others or it was simply a perspective thing. The first panel in this strip, where all dwagons are in formation, shows that thing is huge. What a monster...

[Ragn Charran]

Also, everyone knows you can't dancefight with a battleaxe.

Hard rocking KISS dancefighting allows it, after all, who hasn't heard a guitar referred to as an axe? The "I Love It LOUD!!!" frame proves it.

Yet another reason why KISS Dancefighting > WSS dancefighting.

[Zolem]

Hmm, maybe. They certainly fall at some point though, or Wanda would have had to be flying around on the flying mount GK didnt have anymore in order to reach her new airforce to uncwoak it to have something to fly around on... :P May not be till end of turn, or end of battle though. So maybe Caesars fate is uncertain. If he's toast though, that should be it for Transylvito though, since it was his hex-wide bonus that was making the bats viable.

Armored or not, Jillian is a lvl 9 warlord with a big sword, so I'm not worried about her ability to one-shot Stanleys dwagon. Although if things dont fall immediately then it makes that a less certain method of saving Jack, since Stanley has more time to get another ride to him to pick them both up. We dont know if he can lift a passenger with the Arkenhammer or not.

It's a still image. It's falling we just don't see it doing so.

[stupidface]

My bet is that Jack will do something to keep Stanley and Jillian from interacting with one another. This way the tool will successfully escape, but Jack can save Jillian from being croaked or otherwise harmed by Stanley as he makes his escape for Faq.

[Lamech]

In case anyone mistunderstands when I said "float" I meant float kind of like a ballon. Like "the feather floated down to the earth" Just falling really slowly. Although maybe somethings do stay in the air, but in Ceaser's case he looks like he is level with Stanley instead of being above him, and his bats are falling even faster.

[vrellum]

Armored or not, Jillian is a lvl 9 warlord with a big sword, so I'm not worried about her ability to one-shot Stanleys dwagon. Although if things dont fall immediately then it makes that a less certain method of saving Jack, since Stanley has more time to get another ride to him to pick them both up. We dont know if he can lift a passenger with the Arkenhammer or not.

I would be worried about it. Stanley's dragon is huge and pumped up with some massive bonuses. If The bonuses that TV's side has can make a doombat almost a heavy imagine what a beast that huge red dragon must be. And Stanley's sitting on its back. We've already seen that he's easily more than a match for TV's highest ranking warlord. Stanley might not have killed him, but Ceasar definately took a major hit and Stanley's unscratched. In addition this happened as a result of TV's plan to have Caesar attack Stanley -- indicating that the situation was favorable for TV's side.

I think Jillian tackling Stanley (without any surprises from Jack) would end badly for Jillian (and her gwffins and birds).

Finally, the surprise round might be over. If it is and especially if Caesar's bonus is not available it looks really good for Stanley. Stanley certainly seems to think things are going well.

[lug0si]

My bet is that Jack will do something to keep Stanley and Jillian from interacting with one another. This way the tool will successfully escape, but Jack can save Jillian from being croaked or otherwise harmed by Stanley as he makes his escape for Faq.

thats also my bet.
i wanna point out a few things about Stanley & Jillian:
- i assume that Stanley already had a few levels back in his piker days
- after finding the arkenhammer (or the hammer finding him) he led his armies into lots of highly successful battles conquering many cities, so he must have gained an impressive number of levels in his wars
- from warlord he even rose to the station of overlord, the leader of his side
- Stanley just defeated, maybe even killed, the opposing chief warlord and parts of his stack with one blow and one of his artifact's magical effects - he probably made a level just by accomplishing this.
- Stanley wields an artifact he is attuned to
- Stanley rides a huge, red wyrm, certainly one of the most powerful mounts in erfworld.
-> imho Stanley is without doubt the highest level unit/character in his hex.

- Jillian is level 9 (maybe 10 after she croaked some dragons a few turns ago)
- she is riding a griffon and is accompanied by a few more griffons and orlies
-> Stanley is at full hit points and far more powerful than Jillian's whole stack.

and now he is charging towards Jillian.

i can see no way Zamussels would be able to stop or even kill Stanley. hell, she should be the one worrying about how to get out of this mess alive.
i believe Jack will be the one who saves her life.
__
edit: arrr, Vrellum, you were faster.

[Lamech]

I doubt Jillian stands a chance here. If Stanley decides to pick her off she's done; Ceaser didn't take a full hit and he's belly up. I'm betting he was more powerful too as he is the chief warlord, and he was the attack leader not Jillian, so she probably can't take that AoE either. And if she is getting charged the dwagon will probably fire its breath weapon or try to hit her too.

Hmm... Ceaser seemed to get quite a few arcs of lighting is it possible that the attack wasn't an AoE, but just a lot of shots, that can be split between targets as choosen.

[fractal]

Okay, thoughts:

1. Even warlord-boosted bats probably don't have extra hit points, thus allowing them to be wiped out by an area of effect attack. Jillian's gwiffons are probably just about heavies in their own right (we've seen them eating (wounded) dwagons in one bite), and presumably have the hp to match. They may not die so easily.

2. Stanley probably can't spam the Van de Graaff attack. There might be limited uses, or it may have to recharge, which could take a full turn.

3. It's not clear that Stanley killed Caesar, therefore he probably didn't. Furthermore, things don't seem to be going terribly well for the other dwagons (although presumably warlords can't engage them all, so what are the rest up to?). Jillian may only need to buy time for other units to come to her aid.

4. Jillian may be the best hand-to-hand fighter on the team. Caesar, Ansom, and Stanley all use their personal fighting abilities together with their leadership. Jillian just focuses on killing things herself.

Still, it probably all comes down to what Jack decides to do. Sizemore just finished showing us how decisive casters can be in a battle.

[lug0si]

Okay, thoughts:
... (see above)

true!
if i was the Tool, I'd engage her directly with my wyrm breathing her weaker units to ashes, crippling the griffons if possible.

concerning the remaining dragons: i don't know why they didnt use their breath wepons in the first place. those pesky bats sure get more powerful with leadership boni, but 30 dragons with their own leaders nearby as well should exhale most of them out of existence before they even scratch their scales.

and casters are huge in erfworld. i like that. i wanna see Wanda take grim action this turn. :]

[teratorn]

By the way, is the compos thing in the last pannel a not-so-subtle way of the authors to say that we were all wrong in our assesment of Jack's state of mind? It seems clear now that he was still bat boopin' crazy after all.

[fractal]

true!
if i was the Tool, I'd engage her directly with my wyrm breathing her weaker units to ashes, crippling the griffons if possible.

concerning the remaining dragons: i don't know why they didnt use their breath wepons in the first place. those pesky bats sure get more powerful with leadership boni, but 30 dragons with their own leaders nearby as well should exhale most of them out of existence before they even scratch their scales.

We've never actually seen a breath weapon hit multiple units at a time, unless you count the attack on the siege tower on page 50 (which might have just been hitting the single siege tower unit and gotten the Marbits inside as collateral damage). Breath weapons (at least for some types of dwagons) may just be single target attacks, which is not exactly what you need against swarms of bats.

[lug0si]

We've never actually seen a breath weapon hit multiple units at a time, unless you count the attack on the siege tower on page 50 (which might have just been hitting the single siege tower unit and gotten the Marbits inside as collateral damage). Breath weapons (at least for some types of dwagons) may just be single target attacks, which is not exactly what you need against swarms of bats.

hmmm, looks like i can't prove otherwise.
if you're right with that assumption i'd recommend the winged reptile association to file a complaint to the game designers (Titans?).

[stupidface]

You know, I wonder if Jack even knew that Jillian was alive until that last panel. Neato.