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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gamerlord's Avatar

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    Default Why not research more spells?

    Xykon as complained at least once about being able to spend only 8 hours to making magic items, which leaves him with about 16 hours of free time left, why doesn't he just create more spells, that would keep him busy for weeks!
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    Setra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Because he is lazy
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Because he doesn't need new spells, and making spells is work.

    Alternatively, please tell me, right now, one spell that Xykon could really use that he doesn't already have, that would be worth a really long time of hard work. Keep in mind this is Xykon.

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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Find Small Object? (Keys, buffer, stuff he keeps losing) It may not take a long time, but he no longer needs people to tell him where stuff is.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    You have an awful lot of good points for a pixie, Loka. I'm impressed.

    In any case, I imagine it's more fun for Xykon to torment random things for information then to buckle down and work for a short while to invent a useful spell.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    ....
    Uhh....
    Wow.

    That's a really really good point.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by drengnikrafe View Post
    You have an awful lot of good points for a pixie, Loka. I'm impressed.

    In any case, I imagine it's more fun for Xykon to torment random things for information then to buckle down and work for a short while to invent a useful spell.
    Thanks! I think you're right, too. He had minions! He might not be sacrificing them (at the moment) but they make life easier for him. Especially when they die in hilarious manners.

    Edit: Sorcerers can't create spells? I guess you really do learn something everyday.
    Last edited by Lokasenna; 2008-10-12 at 08:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by drengnikrafe View Post
    You have an awful lot of good points for a pixie, Loka. I'm impressed.

    In any case, I imagine it's more fun for Xykon to torment random things for information then to buckle down and work for a short while to invent a useful spell.
    GASP! rankist!

    though you do have a point....

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
    I must be tired. This never crossed my mind.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
    I'm just glad someone said it before it was too late.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
    oops i haven't checked the pages on researching spells in some time. sorry for wasting thread space.
    Last edited by Gamerlord; 2008-10-12 at 08:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamerkid View Post
    oops i haven't checked the pages on researching spells in some time. sorry for wasting thread space.
    It isn't such a waste really, sorcerers (last time I checked) are allowed to swap in some of their spells for new ones as they gain levels, although I'm not sure if that is still true for epic sorcerers.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Even if he could research spells, I honestly doubt that Xykon could focus on creating new spells when he could be torturing Hinjo or watching Undead Gladiators without a hefty amount of Ritalin...
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
    Can't he do it some way? In Panel 2 of #376 he said he researched a spell. But I'm not a D&D player so I don't know how this stuff works.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    I doubt he'd want to, even if he could; in fact,

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    If Redcloak ever becomes strong enough to do so, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his loyalty came to a hault, simply because Xykon seems to care very little for getting on top with actual work.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lira View Post
    Can't he do it some way? In Panel 2 of #376 he said he researched a spell. But I'm not a D&D player so I don't know how this stuff works.
    Sorcerers (my copy/paste thing isn't working right, so I'm paraphrasing), as the SRD says, "at each new level can pick a spell from the common 'sorcerer/wizard spell list' or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer gained some understanding of by studying."

    The point is, he studied the spell so he could learn it at a new level.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamerkid View Post
    Xykon as complained at least once about being able to spend only 8 hours to making magic items, which leaves him with about 16 hours of free time left, why doesn't he just create more spells, that would keep him busy for weeks!
    The D&D rules only allow a spellcaster [or most anyone else] to spend 8 hours in productive labor. So if he spends 8 hours in CMI, he has no time left for spell research. The other 16 hours must be in sleeping, eating, and other activities that a lich largely does not have to do. Thus Xykon's comment that for some strange reason, he has to be idle for 16 hours a day.

    As to why V seems to be allowed to work 24 hours a day, see rule 0-The DM [in this case the plot] is always right.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Maybe V working 24 hours is inefficient, like since he doesn't do that trance thing it takes him three hours of work to equal one.

    Or rule-0 is in effect like dave said.

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Epic spells still need to be researched. Even by Sorcerors. We know that Xykon has done this at least once already (Cloister). However Reseaech would count towards his 8 hour maximum. Anything else he wants to do would have to be non-magical.

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    Ancalagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Note: In the OotS-world sorcerers can research new spells - and Xykon does even do that. Has everyone already forgotten about "Xykon's Moderatly Escapable Forcecage"?

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereg View Post
    Epic spells still need to be researched. Even by Sorcerors. We know that Xykon has done this at least once already (Cloister). .
    Bad example. Xykon took the item that casts that spell from someone else.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Bad example. Xykon took the item that casts that spell from someone else.
    The item is a component. The spell still need to be cast by a caster.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Sorcerers can't research existing spells, they can, however, create new ones.
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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Because Xykon -can't-.

    Xykon is a Sorcerer, Sorcerers can only gain new spells at level-ups, only wizards can research new spells whenever they wish.
    Ah, this is Xykon we're talking about. If it was plot-relevant for him to "break the rules," he'd just go ahead and do it. Then when Red Cloak pulled out a copy of the PHB and said "But it says here you can't do that" he'd just incinerate it and ask "Says where?" because that's exactly the sort of joke Rich would pull. So, yeah, he doesn't do it because he just doesn't see any reason to.

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurentio II View Post
    The item is a component. The spell still need to be cast by a caster.
    This is correct. Epic spells need to be researched even if another caster known by the researcher can already cast the spell.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurentio II View Post
    The item is a component. The spell still need to be cast by a caster.
    Do you have proof or even an indictation that's actually the case? If not I'd use Occam's Razor and your theory looses its head. ;)

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Do you have proof or even an indictation that's actually the case? If not I'd use Occam's Razor and your theory looses its head. ;)
    Yes, we can see Xykon casting Cloister himself after taking Azure City. (Sorry, don't know how to link yet)

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Do you have proof or even an indictation that's actually the case? If not I'd use Occam's Razor and your theory looses its head. ;)
    You know that the inaccurate use of the Occam's Razor is the ground of some of the most clamorous errors?
    Anyway, Xykon recognize it as the component of an epic spell (or possibly, some hippie headgear you can find in your Wheaties). Celia describe the Cloister as a spell that need to be cast, and not a magic item effect. In the same page, they discuss the duration of the spell based on the caster level.
    If you find it not matching your guess, read the comic.

    By the way, mind that having a baby is a complex process, requiring two people of different gender, some activity, biology and a painful, potentially risky labor.
    On the other hand, stork delivery is much simpler. Occam's Razor lose.
    Last edited by Laurentio II; 2008-10-13 at 08:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Why not research more spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurentio II View Post
    The item is a component. The spell still need to be cast by a caster.
    Sorry Laurentio, gotta disagree on you with this one. The headband is casting Cloister, Xykon is just activating it. This can be seen since both Durokan and Xykon's 'cast' of cloister has no magical effects coming from anywhere -except- the headband.

    Additionally, since Xykon is a Sorcerer and not formerly trained in magic, the chance of him being able to rediscover how to cast an epic level spell based on Durokan's notes (which he can't understand) is nearly an impossibility. Figuring out the command word of the headband seems much much more likely.
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