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    Default Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Time Mage

    As the name implies, the time mage's magic focuses on influencing the flow of time in combat e.g. haste, slow, time stop. However, they also have control over teleportation, gravitation, extraplanar travel and summoning, entropy effects and the power to see through space and time. Their focus on a particular area of magic affords them extra insight and subtlety with magic, allowing them to use various time-related supernatural abilities and metamagic-like effects.

    Class Skills
    The time mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (the planes), (Int), Perform (any music-related) (Cha), Profession (Wis) and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level)

    Hit Dice: d4

    Time Mage
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Eddies of Time, Spacetime Distortion|5|3

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Manipulate Entropy|6|4

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Advanced Learning|6|5

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Time Shunt|6|6|3

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Spell Symmetry (time dilation)|6|6|4

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    ||6|6|5|3

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|4

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    ||6|6|6|5|3

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Spell Symmetry (time contraction)|6|6|6|6|4

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    ||6|6|6|5|3

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|4

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Time Shunt (area spells)|6|6|6|6|5|3

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Spell Symmetry (space extension)|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    ||6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Spell Symmetry (space expansion)|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    ||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |Time Shunt (any spell), Eternal Life|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Time mages are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a time mage's arcane gestures, which can cause their spels with somatic components to fail.

    Spells: A time mage casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the time mage spell list below. When they gain access to a new level of spells, thet automatically know all the spells for that level on the time mage spell list. They can cast any spell they know without preparing it ahead of time. Essentially their spell list is the same as their spells known list. They also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advances learning class feature (see below) as they increase in level.
    To cast a time mage spell, a time mage must have an Intelligence score of 10+the spell's level (Int 10 for 0-level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a time mage's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the time mage's Int modifier. Like other spellcasters, a time mage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. The base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, they receive bonus spells for a high Intelligence (see Table 1-1, page 8 of the Player's Handbook).
    A time mage need not prepare spells in advance. They can cast any spell they know at any time, assuming they have not yet used up all their spells per day for that spell level.

    Eddies of Time (Su): A time mage is adept at reusing the residual time energy from their spells to subtly change the flow of time in combat. Whenever they cast a time mage spell during an encounter, they may add or subtract a number to the initiative count of any other creature involved in the encounter. This number exactly equals (spell level/2 + 1), rounded down. Spells with metamagic applied count as their new level. For example, Pelenar the time mage is fighting a dire platypus. He uses a 3rd level slot to cast an extended summon monster II. He chooses to lower its initiative count from 13 to 11, so his fighter friend (initiative count 12) gets to act before it.

    Spacetime Distortion: Time mages They gain a special pool of distortion points which they can spend to power their class abilities. The maximum size of their distortion point pool is equal to their class level. This pool is replenished when a time mage rests to regain spells.

    Manipulate Entropy (Su): At 2nd level a time mage learns to create entropy with just a thought. Whenever a creature within 30 ft and with line of effect to the time mage makes an attack roll, skill or ability check, the time mage may use this ability as an immediate action. This involves spending up to five entropy points to apply a chance of failure (regardless of the d20 result) equal to 10% times no. of entropy points spent. This doesn't stack with other effects that apply a percentage chance of failure, such as concealment or entropic shield.

    Advanced Learning (Ex): At 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level, a time mage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be must be a wizard spell from the conjuration (calling, summoning or teleportation) or divination schools/subschools, and must be of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the time mage already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that time mage's spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the time mage's list.

    Time Shunt (Su): At 4th level a time mage can spend distortion points and project a bubble of time to intercept with an oncoming spell, effectively sending it into the future. As an immediate action in response to a spell or spell-like ability cast with them as a target (but before any attack roll is made), they can delay it by one round. If the time mage (or any other targets) are no longer valid targets when the spell or SLA resolves, it fails. If the spell involves an attack roll, and a target moves to a different square before its resolution, it fails to hit them. This ability improves as the time mage gains more levels, for every 4 time mage levels beyond 4 they may delay the spell/SLA for an additional round. To use this ability a time mage must spend distortion points equal to (spell or SLA level/2 + 1), rounded down. If the spell has had metamagic applied to it, use its new level, not the base one.
    At 12th level a time mage may affect area spells/SLAs with this, provided they are within its target area upon casting. The spell/SLA affects those within the area upon resolution.
    At 20th level a time mage may affect any spell/SLA with this ability, regardless of whether it affects them.

    Spell Symmetry: As a time mage progresses in their understanding of magic, they recognise correspondences between the way a spell is cast and its effects. When they cast a time mage spell, they may spontaneously apply any one of the following effects they know. Each use of Spell Symmetry costs one distortion point. Unlike metamagic these effects do not increase casting time unless they explicitly say so.
    Time dilation: At 5th level a time mage may add one round to the casting time of a spell to double its duration, as if they had applied the Extend Spell feat to it, but without using a higher level spell slot.
    Time contraction: At 9th level a time mage may choose to cast a spell as a swift action, however its duration is lowered to 1 round. The spell must only target themself and normally have a casting time of 1 standard action and a duration greater than 1 round.
    Space extension: At 13th level a time mage can increase the casting time of a spell by one round to apply the effects of the Enlarge Spell metamagic feat to it without using a higher level spell slot. The target or location of the spell is chosen upon the conclusion of casting. Immediately before they finish casting the time mage must move 10 feet in either direction along the line of effect between them and where the spell will have its effect (if an area effect, the center of the spread, if a chain spell, the primary target, in a spell with multiple equal targets, the average location). This movement does not take a separate action, but incurs attacks of opportunity as normal.
    Space expansion: At 17th level a time mage can add 3 rounds to the casting time of a spell to apply the effects of the Widen Spell metamagic feat to it without increasing casting time. The area of effect of the spell is chosen upon the conclusion of casting. During the casting of the spell the time mage must move 30 ft, incurring attacks of opportunity as normal. This movement may be split over multiple turns, and may be in any direction.

    Eternal Life (Su): A 20th level time mage has perfect control over aging. As long as they are in a place where magic functions, they can influence their body not to decay and age, giving them an unlimited lifespan.

    Time Mage Spell List
    0 Level: arcane mark, detect magic, know direction, mage hand, mending, read magic, stick (SC)
    1st Level: benign transposition (SC), lesser deflect (PHB2), entropic shield, expeditious retreat, swift expeditious retreat (SC), feather fall, greater mage hand (SC), nerveskitter (SC), portal beacon (SC), ray of enfeeblement, scatterspray (SC), slide (SC), summon monster I, true strike
    2nd level: baleful transposition (SC), curse of ill fortune (SC), curse of impending blades (SC), lesser celerity (PHB2), deflect (PHB2), dimension hop (PHB2), swift fly (SC), insight of good fortune (PHB2), levitate, lively step (SC), locate object, make whole, portal alarm (SC), rope trick, shatter, greater slide (SC), snake's swiftness (SC), summon monster II, sure strike (PHB2)
    3rd level: alter fortune (PHB2), analyse portal (SC), anticipate teleportation (SC), blink, clairaudience/clairvoyance, crumble (SC), mass curse of impending blades (SC), dimension step (PHB2), dispel magic, false gravity (SC), fly, halt (PHB2), haste, ray of exhaustion, regroup, rust ray (SC), scattering trap (PHB2), sepia snake sigil, slow, mass snake's swiftness (SC), summon monster III, unluck (SC)
    4th Level: baleful blink (PHB2), celerity (PHB2), detect scrying, dimension door, dimensional anchor, dismissal, forcewave (SC), locate creature, make manifest (SC), miasma of entropy (SC), improved portal alarm (SC), rusting grasp, scramble portal (SC), scrying, summon monster IV, wingbind (SC)
    5th Level: greater blink (SC), greater dimension door (SC), dimension shuffle (PHB2), fabricate, mass fly (SC), leomund's secret chest, overland flight, plane shift, summon monster V, swift etherealness (PHB2), telekinesis, teleport, waves of fatigue, zone of respite (SC)
    6th Level: banishment, greater anticipate teleportation (SC), greater dispel magic, find the path, mass make manifest (SC), ray of entropy (SC), seal portal (SC), summon monster VI
    7th Level: drawmij's instant summons, ethereal jaunt, phase door, planar bubble (SC), greater plane shift (SC), reverse gravity, greater scrying, summon monster VII, greater teleport, teleport object, waves of exhaustion
    8th Level: greater celerity (PHB2), discern location, dimensional lock, maze, moment of prescience, summon monster VIII, temporal stasis
    9th Level: etherealness, foresight, gate, hindsight, instant refuge (SC), reality maelstrom (SC), replicate casting (SC), summon monster IX, teleport through time (WotC website), teleportation circle, time stop
    Last edited by Violet Octopus; 2008-10-13 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I like the idea behind Eddies of Time, though you need to make more explicit the fact that 0-level spells don't count. In general, the class is very solidly thought out, and is a very bang-up "first post". :D

    Er, why does it have Perform on its skill list though? "Double time" is a music term, not a chronological one. (rimshot)
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    This is very well done - a note: All PHB2 spells are in the SC.

    The only ones that concern me (although for flavor and concept reasons, I understand why they have to be there) are the celerity spells. I would also suggest that the core temporal spells (temporal stasis and time stop be given to him a bit earlier?

    Anyway, as AstralFire said, it's an explosive first post, and brilliant use of the SC/PHB2 resources.

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    biggrin Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Wow!
    I'm so gonna use this!
    Excellent class!
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I really like this idea. There are a few areas however, which may need some revision or clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Manipulate Entropy (Su): At 2nd level a time mage learns to create entropy with just a thought. They gain one entropy point per day per two class levels (rounded down).
    Is this the maximum size of the entropy pool or is this how many points are accumulated per day. If it is per day then it can be easily abused by players (think of the long treks across continents trope).

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Whenever a creature within 30 ft and with line of effect to the time mage makes an attack roll, skill or ability check, the time mage may use this ability as an immediate action. This involves spending one or more entropy points to apply a chance of failure (regardless of the d20 result) equal to 10% times no. of entropy points spent. This doesn't stack with other effects that apply a percentage chance of failure, such as concealment or entropic shield.
    Again, if it is per day then this could easily be abused. If not, a level 20 could have a single auto-miss per day or several possible misses. If you want to keep the randomness aspect then making it a maximum of 50% miss chance would be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Time Shunt (Su): At 4th level a time mage can project a bubble of time to intercept with an oncoming spell, effectively sending it into the future. As an immediate action in response to a spell or spell-like ability cast with them as a target (but before any attack roll is made), they can delay it by one round. If the time mage (or any other targets) are no longer valid targets when the spell or SLA resolves, it fails. If the spell involves an attack roll, and a target moves to a different square before its resolution, it fails to hit them. This ability improves as the time mage gains more levels, for every 4 time mage levels beyond 4 they may delay the spell/SLA for an additional round. This ability is usable once per encounter.
    At 12th level a time mage may affect area spells/SLAs with this, provided they are within its target area upon casting. The spell/SLA affects those within the area upon resolution.
    At 20th level a time mage may affect any spell/SLA with this ability, regardless of whether it affects them.
    This could also be a problem with the TM becoming immune to all melee, and at later levels all ranged (so long as he can find some cover or such). The several round delays could turn the game into a bookkeeping nightmare if usable at will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Spell Symmetry:
    Can also be abused.

    These could all be handled perhaps by using a larger entropy point pool (1ep/level). Each use of spell symmetry or time shunt uses one ep. As mentioned, a max % on manipulate entropy could be used, or left as is and the TM has to choose to enhance a spell, shunt, or cause an attack to miss.

    Just a few thoughts. Still like the concept as written. Goof job.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I like this class quite a bit, I never figured there could be such a good match-up between divination and conjuration for one of these types of casters, but you made it work well. The only issue I have is the name, Time Mage is just a bit bland. Might I suggest Chronomancer?
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    The only issue I have is the name, Time Mage is just a bit bland. Might I suggest Chronomancer?
    That's what I was gonna suggest. Get out of my mind!

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    If we're talking about names, I think suggestions of 'time' themes are too limiting given that its powers do go well beyond mere time manipulation. May I suggest Ontomancer - the magic of existence, or reality?
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire
    I like the idea behind Eddies of Time, though you need to make more explicit the fact that 0-level spells don't count. In general, the class is very solidly thought out, and is a very bang-up "first post". :D

    Er, why does it have Perform on its skill list though? "Double time" is a music term, not a chronological one. (rimshot)
    Thanks! :)
    0-level spells are supposed to count, just forgot to update my example. Perform is a class skill for flavour reasons, relationship between rhythm and time, etc. Also because I'm thinking of a time mage/bard prestige class.
    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma
    The only ones that concern me (although for flavor and concept reasons, I understand why they have to be there) are the celerity spells. I would also suggest that the core temporal spells (temporal stasis and time stop be given to him a bit earlier?
    I was so close to not giving the time mage celerity spells, but decided not to punish non-munchkin players. They are broken though, what about a fix to make them scarier to use, like Con drain? 8th level time stop makes me worry about Extending it in 9th level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lert, A.
    Is this the maximum size of the entropy pool or is this how many points are accumulated per day. If it is per day then it can be easily abused by players (think of the long treks across continents trope).
    It's maximum pool size. Clarified.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lert, A.
    Again, if it is per day then this could easily be abused. If not, a level 20 could have a single auto-miss per day or several possible misses. If you want to keep the randomness aspect then making it a maximum of 50% miss chance would be fine.
    I intended a 1/day auto-miss to be possible at level 20, but it's open to change if others think it's too powerful
    Quote Originally Posted by Lert, A
    This could also be a problem with the TM becoming immune to all melee, and at later levels all ranged (so long as he can find some cover or such). The several round delays could turn the game into a bookkeeping nightmare if usable at will.
    It's 1/encounter. Edited to make that clearer. It also allows you to dodge a ray spell (ranged touch attack) or a fireball, but not magic missile or destruction (which just designate a target)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lert, A
    These could all be handled perhaps by using a larger entropy point pool (1ep/level). Each use of spell symmetry or time shunt uses one ep. As mentioned, a max % on manipulate entropy could be used, or left as is and the TM has to choose to enhance a spell, shunt, or cause an attack to miss.
    I like this, and it ties together the different class features. But I may leave time shunt as 1/encounter to prevent TMs spending all their points on it in one battle and then resting. Also to stop nasty bookkeeping, as you said.

    A couple of other things I'm worried about: lack of things to do at low-levels (a lot of the spells happen to be Personal range), which is the main reason why I added summon monster and scatterspray.
    The enforced movement in Spell Symmetry strikes me as a little blah, I feel there's a more creative way out there to add symmetry flavour.

    The name was a reference to Final Fantasy time mages, I thought they had space folding magic as well, though I've never played a game with them. Will think about a name change.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Well, if anyone should Extend a time stop...

    I'm sorry, I see that sentence and I think of the signature someone here has regarding Ouroboros dropping in with an Empowered, Extended, Maximized time stop just to stare very hard at the PCs.

    Oh yes, and AstralFire?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire
    May I suggest Ontomancer - the magic of existence, or reality?
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I'd change the name, but not to chronomancer. Maybe it's just me, but I've seen chrono- used too often for it to really stick any more. Plus, there aren't too many strict time spells to choose from, as someone up there said it's more of a reality-mancer. Ontomancer is unique, but doesn't roll off the tongue too well.

    I agree that it seems a little low on things to do at low levels, and also at higher. Aside from moving people around, he only has maybe one "attack" spell at each level. I'm gonna look up the spells I don't know and see if I can make any suggestions. I can't really think of any time spells you don't have already, most of the time stuff is in psionics. You could port over some of those powers as spells, but that makes it feel a lot more dependant on homebrew than a time themed list of existing spells. I just think it needs a couple more options in combat at each level other than move someone.

    I expect you've already gone through all the Spell Compendium and PHBII spells, but it's easier to use as few books as possible, so I'll make suggestions from there. I'll also comment on any current spells here. I'd consider opening up to some more debuffs, as time magic tends to temporarily age, shunt, or alter the fate of people in detrimental ways.

    Edit: as I go on, it looks like you tried to limit the spells to conjuration, divination, and transmutation spells with the right flavor. I'll be departing a bit from that, since there are a number of necromancy spells that involve some fate cursing that feel appropriate, as well as penalties that one could fluff as aging. You already have Ray of Entropy, so I figure necromancy is fair game.

    Edit2: I'm gonna make my official suggestions after each overview. So far with the first couple levels you have less spells than the Beguiler, so I'll be suggesting additions. I wonder: did you intentionally give the Time Mage fewer spells to account for the greater class abilities?

    Edit3: Now that I've hit 4th level spells, my spell list is definitely much more debuff focused. The flavor has shifted wildly: looking at spells for combat, I've basically added 2 necromancy debuff spells at each level. There are still plenty of movement and teleportation spells, and the actual time spells that can be found, but while your original was more time and travel, mine is more curse of time. I actually like the travel/manipulation vibe more, but you can only get so far in combat with tactical positioning. The Beguiler is packed with save or lose, as is the Dread Necromancer, but I'm not sure the Time Mage can compete. In any case, one could just drop some of the necromancy spells I just added. I doubt anyone's read any of this yet, so I'll mark the necromantic overabundance that I'd cut with asterisks*.

    Edit the 4th: Not that I need to specify edit when no one's posted after me, my ramblings are as much for my benefit as anyone else's, but I digress. I was adding a few too many spells so I cut some. Though I've suggested cutting the portal manipulation spells, it's mostly just for raw number of spells at each level. I think they do make a statement about what the Time Mage does: manipulate time and place magic, which if removed, leaves him kind of aimless. My problem with just keeping them as is, is that you don't have any of the other spells for surviving on other planes (Planar Attunement and such), and you've got plane shift at the high 7th level, which doesn't make sense for a master of movement. I'm not sure weather they should really count towards your useful spells known, since they won't come into play often, if ever, but that depends on the campaign.
    Other portal/planar spells I would suggest if going that route: Portal Alarm/Improved, Avoid Planar Effects/Attune Form/Planar Tolerance, and Planar Bubble. Perinarch and Planar Perinarch are kinda cool, but not necessary.

    Hmm, I'm actually going to un-suggest removing the portal stuff now, and instead toss on the alarms, and avoid/attune.

    I've put up a comparison with the Beguiler's spells known mostly to keep myself from going overboard.

    1st:
    Incite, Inhibit, and Shock And Awe all fit the action manipulation theme, but they're enchantments, so I don't know if they'd fit. Cheat manipulates rolls in is in the right school, but not useful in combat.
    Nerveskitter might be a good choice: transmutation that boosts initiative, going first is a good contribution to combat.
    Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Clumbsiness are both useful, and can fit the aging weakness debuff fluff. Lesser Deflect is an immediate action, and if anyone should have swift and immediate spells it's a time mage.

    1st, suggestions:
    Add: Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumbsiness*, Nerveskitter. Total: 13 spells vs. Beguiler's 14

    2nd:
    Earthbind seems like kind of an odd spell, but there's nothing wrong with it.
    You've got Fly at 3rd, I'd add Swift Fly at 2nd. Insight of Good Fortune seems perfect, I'm not sure why you don't already have it up there, it's divination too. Scale Weakening can keep on with the aged weakness, and it's transmutation. I could see Wraithstrike as coming from reading time to avoid armor, but it's more of a gish spell. Curse of Impending Blades and Curse of Ill Fortune would be good debuffs, working the fate angle. Deflect if you deem deflection is good. Portal Alarm goes with portal stuff.

    2nd, suggestions:
    Remove: Earthbind. Add: Swift Fly, Insight of Good Fortune, Portal Alarm, Curse of Impending Blades, Curse of Ill Fortune*. Total: 18 vs. Beguiler's 19

    3rd:
    Mass Curse of Impending Blades if you bring on the curses. Hesitate manipulates actions, but as Incite and and Inhibit, it's enchantment, which doesn't seem right. Sepia Snake Sigil (back in core) puts it's target in stasis, one of the lowest level spells that can. Halt fits in with the Slide spells, seems like a good choice to me. Ray of Exhaustion (core again): hours without sleep. Shadow Phase is great, miss chance through partial not-there-ness. Rust Ray makes since, what with already having Rusting Grasp. Dehydrate is a little overt, but it fits the necromantic time passing. Avoid Planar Effects goes with portal stuff.

    3rd, suggestions:
    Add: Mass Curse of Impending Blades, Halt, Shadow Phase, Rust Ray, Ray of Exhaustion*. Total: 21 vs. Beguiler's 20.

    4th:
    Enervation and Bestow Curse are pushing it, I've already added a lot of debuff power, and Bestow Curse's variable effects are harder to justify than the earlier curse spells. Still, the only offense at this level is Baleful Blink...let's see what else is out there. If I wasn't going more curse-y, I'd suggest Attune Form (if you go the planar route, you should have most of the planar spells). Ruin Delver's Fortune is immediate, but luck and temporary hp don't fit. Starvation is like Exhaustion, but like Dehydrate feels a little forced. Side note: Dehydrate is way more powerful than Starvation, yet a level lower, whose idea was that? Miasma of Entropy Appears as a 4th level Druid spell. It's entry seems to have an error: there is nothing to half with the fort half save, so I assume it's just will negates. Summon Elementite Swarm isn't quite generic enough to justify on the main spell list. Lesser Planar Exchange is possible, but I'd leave it off for now. Improved Portal Alarm goes here.

    4th, suggestions:
    Add: Dehydrate, Starvation, Miasma of Entropy Total: 12 vs. Beguiler's 11. Note: I upped Dehydration's level because it's just as good, if not better, than Starvation, I think. Miasma of Entropy doesn't really do much, so I'd use the lower level.

    5th:
    Mass Curse of Ill Fortune becomes available. Plane Shift appears as a 5th level cleric spell. Not much else, I generally dislike the secret chest, but it works for this guy.

    5th, suggestions:
    Remove: Miasma of Entropy (it's now 4th). Add: Mass Curse of Ill Fortune, Plane Shift, Planar Tolerance. Total: 16 vs. Beguiler's 12. Note: 2 of those 16 are flight spells that just save 3rd level slots, and 1 is a downtime storage spell, so I figure it's fine.

    6th:
    Make Manifest fits the theme, but the only plane you can actually use it against is the ethereal. Unless you have some unknown spell that lets you see into the plane of shadow, or maybe the astral plane, the only co-terminous plane you can see into is the ethereal plane. No reason to remove it, but if such a spell is around, the Time Mage would need it to go with this. I also notice you've taken the higher level once again, but it's not as essential as Plane shift, so I won't argue. I've just noticed the Planar Exchange line: It'd be nice to add a little more summoning, but Planar Binding/Ally seem too variable, While Call -Ineveitable- and Dragon Ally have really specific targets. Planar Exchange, Summon Greater Elemental, and Summon Elemental Monolith are generic enough I think they could work for anyone alongside the Summon Monster series.

    6th, suggestions:
    None at the moment, since I decided I like the portal stuff, I'm leaving off Planar Exchanges and Summon Greater Elemental. Total: 8 vs. Beguiler's 8.

    7th
    I'd vote Limited Wish for reality altering, but that kind of versatility doesn't fly with these classes. Etherealness seems the next logical step after the blink spells. Greater Plane Shift appears at this level for Clerics.

    7th, suggestions
    Remove: Plane Shift (now 5th level). Add: Greater Plane Shift. Total: 9 vs. Beguiler's 8.

    8th
    Nothing here except Greater Planar Exchange.

    8th, suggestions
    Remove: Greater Plane Shift (now 7th level). Total 8 vs. Beguiler's 8.

    9th
    If summoning was a bigger theme, there'd s several spells to put here. I might suggest Replicate Casting, since the Spell Compendium version is time sensitive: you can say you're copying your opponents spell from when they cast it 6 seconds ago. Ice Assassin could be a Time Duplicate if you refluffed it and removed the caster's control, but I think that's in Frostburn.

    9th, suggestions:
    None.


    So, that was crazy long, and took waaaaaaaaaay too much of my time, so I hope you read it. I like the class, and ultimately, I just think it needs a couple more combat options, the spells needed to cope with planar travel if it's going to have portal spells, and to get plane shift at a decent level.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2008-10-12 at 05:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Your only escape is to blame it on me. Otherwise, I am TOTALLY vidicated for Cephalovampiroid.
    I knew one obscure monosyllabic root. You threw together three roots and ended up with a pentasyllabic monster.
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Still, come on - onto-? That's pretty rare.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Still, come on - onto-? That's pretty rare.
    At best you're redeeming yourself for one word on an entire table. Besides, I Wikied for a suitable root, I didn't actually know what it meant off the top of my head. Chrono- anything just seemed too... done for me to really think of it as catchy.

    And I wouldn't be too surprised if more have casually heard of ontology than the root for octopus.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-10-12 at 08:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I'll give you that.

    But it's hexasyllabic.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Hmm...after reading this over...yeah. I like it. It's as balanced as a time altering magister can be, with a good selection of spells and some well designed class features. The only problem shouldn't be a problem in the right hands: it seems really hard to play. You have to know the class, its pros, and its cons inside out if you want to get the most out of it. Not to say that this is a bad thing. It's just not a class for beginners.
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    OK, here are some proposed changes:
    Entropy Point mechanic:
    Increase pool size to 1/class level.
    Manipulate Entropy costs 1 point/10% failure chance (max 50%)
    Time Shunt costs (1+ X/2) points to shunt a level X spell (rounded down. No longer 1/encounter.
    Spell Symmetry costs 1 point/use
    (entropy points would have to be renamed)

    Spell List:
    1 ADD lesser deflect, nerveskitter, portal beacon, ray of enfeeblement, ray of clumsiness
    2 REMOVE earthbind, ADD insight of good fortune, portal alarm, sure strike
    3 ADD rust ray, sepia snake sigil, halt, mass curse of impending blades, ray of exhaustion, clairaudience/clairvoyance
    4 ADD wingbind, miasma of entropy, make manifest, improved portal alarm, forcewave, dehydrate, starvation,
    5 REMOVE miasma of entropy, ADD plane shift, waves of fatigue, swift etherealness
    6 REMOVE make manifest, ADD mass make manifest
    7 REMOVE plane shift, ADD greater plane shift, waves of exhaustion, ethereal jaunt, planar bubble
    8 REMOVE greater plane shift, mass make manifest
    9 ADD replicate casting, instant refuge, etherealness

    If I did all these, this is how no. of spells known will compare to beguiler (including the situational portal spells)
    spell level, Time Mage, Beguiler
    1, 15, 14
    2, 19 , 19
    3, 22, 20
    4, 17, 11
    5, 16 , 11
    6, 8, 8
    7, 12 , 8
    8, 7, 7
    9, 12, 6

    4, 5, 7 and 9 are problematic. Will cut once I get sleep and can think clearly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban
    (sheer awesomeness)
    I'm flattered that you went through the spellbooks for this. Thankyou. I can't maintain concentration for that so it's not surprising I missed stuff. Going through the SC again was only bearable because Priscilla was on TV.

    Yeah, I limited it to PHB2 and SC, as the others I looked at had at best one or two spells that were only a marginal fit.
    I don't have Complete Mage though, maybe there's good stuff in there.

    I limited it to specific concepts (folding space, time manipulation, seeing through time/space, gravity, entropy/probability), not schools, although I didn't want mind affecting magic so enchantment and non-shadow illusion were out. It just happened that the spells were almost all conjuration, divination and transmutation. At one point it did have ray of enfeeblement and other 'entropy'/'aging' debuffs, but got paranoid that I was making Spontaneous Casting Batman so I cut them (except ray of entropy).

    So necromantic debuffs are back in (not enervation, that's negative energy). I'm also adding some clumsy force effects that can be fluffed as gravity (magic missile no, forcewave yes). Deflection bonuses to AC fit in nicely with that, so deflect is in.

    As the portal manipulation spells are pretty situational (and of too many different schools to cover with Advanced Learning) I'll keep them as flavor, but while folding space to travel to the Hades sounds fine, self-buffing to avoid being depressed does not. Planar bubble makes sense though.

    Concerning the name, the time mage's spells seem more like fantasy physics, not metaphysics. Truename magic seems closer to ontomancy (if it didn't suck). "cosmo-" is another possibility, as is "-sopher". I quite like cosmosopher, actually.

    Also, why do clerics get plane shift before wizards get teleport?
    Last edited by Violet Octopus; 2008-10-12 at 10:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Thanks for reading. I was hungry for a DnD reading binge, and a helping make a decent Time Mage was more than enough excuse (some 3rd party stuff is...ugh). I'm flattered in turn that you have described it as "sheer awesomeness", mind if I sig it?

    I somehow managed to forget Avoid Planar Effects (3rd) and Attune Form (5th), the main spells to let you survive on other planes. I like the other changes too, though I'd like to hear from the others about my spell list additions: I'm notoriously caster-friendly. I don't think it's reaching Batman with the debuffs, Batman traditionally relies on a wide range, including a lot of reflex and no save movement control, which this doesn't have. The no-saves here are just fatigue and -2 AC (I just noticed you left off Curse of Impending Blades, single [2nd], on purpose?)

    I'd suggest putting all the [formerly entropy] point based abilities under one heading, say Time Distortion. You gain 1 Distortion Point/level, and can spend them on abilities you gain as you level up. Then list the abilities under it, same setup as Bardic Music.

    And I have no idea why Clerics get Planeshift and Etherealness before wizards. They also get a bunch of summoning and calling spells that I think should be arcane (Planar Ally, Planar Exchange, Summon -Specific Monster Here-, and probably others).
    Last edited by Fizban; 2008-10-12 at 03:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Edit the 4th: Not that I need to specify edit when no one's posted after me, my ramblings are as much for my benefit as anyone else's, but I digress.
    Don't I just know that feeling, esp posting at 4 o'clock in the morning.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Implemented changes to spell list and distortion point mechanic. Also clarified whether metamagicked spells cost more to time shunt/have a bigger eddies of time effect (they do)

    Didn't add ray of clumsiness, starvation, dehydration. Also cut permanency (there's almost nothing the TM can make permanent without houseruling), disintegrate, sphere of ultimate destruction. Moved dismissal and banishment to cleric levels, conveniently smoothed the spells known curve a bit. It's hard to get balance right concerning no. of spells known vs. the beguiler, but given that beguilers get a variety of save or lose and social manipulation spells it's probably OK to have a few more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Thanks for reading. I was hungry for a DnD reading binge, and a helping make a decent Time Mage was more than enough excuse (some 3rd party stuff is...ugh). I'm flattered in turn that you have described it as "sheer awesomeness", mind if I sig it?
    Sure, go ahead :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban
    I somehow managed to forget Avoid Planar Effects (3rd) and Attune Form (5th), the main spells to let you survive on other planes. I like the other changes too, though I'd like to hear from the others about my spell list additions: I'm notoriously caster-friendly. I don't think it's reaching Batman with the debuffs, Batman traditionally relies on a wide range, including a lot of reflex and no save movement control, which this doesn't have. The no-saves here are just fatigue and -2 AC (I just noticed you left off Curse of Impending Blades, single [2nd], on purpose?)
    Didn't add ray of clumsiness, starvation, dehydration. Also cut permanency (there's almost nothing the TM can make permanent without houseruling), disintegrate, sphere of ultimate destruction. Moved dismissal and banishment to cleric levels, conveniently smoothed the spells known curve a bit. It's hard to get balance right concerning no. of spells known vs. the beguiler, but given that beguilers get a variety of save or lose and social manipulation spells it's probably OK to have a few more.

    Having a useless distortion point at 1st level makes me want to make feats powered by it. Going through bardic music feats from CAdv, Ironskin Chant and Chant of Fortitude seem like good knockoff candidates (minus the perform requirement). But neither of them are available at 1st level. Will have to think of something else.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    I have to argue against cutting Disintigrate and Sphere of Ultimate Destruction. Aside from them both being awesome spells, the Time Mage's high level tactics are now essentially limited to Telekinesis, Reverse Gravity, remove from combat for a few rounds, or Summon Monster. Telekinesis does little damage, or moves the target, which earlier forced movement spells can do. Reverse Gravity is negated by flight, which pretty much everyone has by that level. Maze and Temporal Stasis are both great, but they're the same level and do the same thing: remove the target from combat until you're ready for them. On levels 5 through 7, the Time Mage is limited to Summon Monster, or apply -2 to -6 penalty to strength. He needs something direct between those levels, at the very least something in the middle, at 6th level: I could stomach a gap of one spell level (2 character levels) with no new attacks, but not 3 (6).

    I'd re-add Disintigrate, as he has the fewest spells in general at that level, and one of them is a situational portal spell. 5th level has 2 fly spells and the Secret Chest, and while that brings the count down just enough to compare to the beguiler, I still think he should have something else at that level besides waves of exhaustion.

    Really, I just think it needs Disintigrate and the Sphere. I'd drop Reality Maelstrom, Replicate Casting, or both to make room for the sphere if needed. The Maelstrom would fit better if one added the Precipitate Planar Breach spells, and the Replicate Casting is too situational to quantify it's worth. From a metagamey sort of view, it'd be nice to have a top tier combat spell that didn't take all the loot with it as well.

    Oh, and I'd still ask for Planar Attunement, as Planar Bubble is only 10 min/level, and so won't work for anything more than a quick jaunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
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    This class is now going to be used on one of my future NPCs. I can see at least one of my spellcaster regulars picking this up when it's time for a new character. Kudos.

    I can see your point in creating distortion-based feats. I think of them as a new type of time-themed incarnum feats (can place x dp in a feat to gain an all day benefit, scaling effect, receive +1 dp).

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    I'm sorry, I see that sentence and I think of the signature someone here has regarding Ouroboros dropping in with an Empowered, Extended, Maximized time stop just to stare very hard at the PCs.
    It was because the PCs were goofing off for hours and hours, and the DM had great plot ideas waiting for them (I just didn't have room enough for the whole conversation in my signature).
    (After sigged line) PCs: "Uhh.... we go to the bar and hunt for plot hooks."
    DM: "Yes, yes you do..."

    Back on topic though... I'm not half as useful as anyone else here who has posted, since my working knowledge of spells is very limited, but I think this class sounds like great fun.

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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    You might want to include some of the psionic time magic on the spell-list:
    Danger Sense
    Destiny Dissonance
    Precognition
    Defensive Precognition
    Greater Precognition
    Offensive Precognition
    Time Regression
    Timeless Body
    Time Hop
    Temporal Acceleration
    Suspend Life
    Quintessence

    For most of them the conversions is straight-forward, swap manifester level with caster level, power level with spell level, and use the unaugmented version. For others, you will have to make some of the effects dependent on caster level rather than augmentation or make a second person of the spell (Greater what have) which is a higher spell-level but an augmented version.

    Oh, I really like the prestige class by the way. Thank you for making it in a way that is not ridiculously overpowered.
    Last edited by Prometheus; 2008-10-13 at 08:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Time Mage [3.5 Base Class]

    Random idea for flavor... all Time Mage spells require an item focus - an hourglass.

    Entropy points could be fluffed as sand for the hourglass.

    EDIT: Additional suggestion ... add Scythe to the list of weapon proficiencies. Father Time is often depicted with an hourglass and scythe.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2008-10-14 at 09:27 AM.
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