OOTS #600 - The Discussion Thread

[Mant]

Well, it would from me. Not only would that be the most punk-rock comic strip ever, but it'd be a well-deserved slap in the face to everyone who gets stroppy every time Rich doesn't come up with exactly what they want to see, when they want to see it. Like he's under some sort of obligation or something.

Yeah, i suppose i expected too much when i hoped to see something interesting instead of receiving the usual methaphorical slap in the face. Owww.

[Phishfood]

</lurking>
Nice one Giant. 100% not what I expected (and I didn't expect an epic battle either)

[Daibhid C]

So... am I the only one who noticed that the 'spellcasting dummy' is wearing the same robe as a certain relative of Roy and Horace?

I missed that until you mentioned this but LOL!

Regarding the complaints about the strip (which isn't one of my favourites, but doesn't feel like a "slap in the face" either) let me get this straight:

The Giant writes strips in which exciting and unexpected things happen, including barrier after barrier being built to Roy's resurrection. People complain that this is all unnecessary, and want things to move back to the way they used to be.

The Giant does a strip in which Roy moves towards resurrection, which not only avoids introducing new problems, but lampshades this lack. People complain that nothing exciting happened.

The Giant may want to consider taking up professional golf instead at this point, but I hope he doesn't.

Edit: Another cool point: If this were a movie, then the transition from 599 to 600 would clearly be a slow fade combined with a pullback, so V in the final panel of 599 is replaced by the celestial in the first panel of 600.

[Dunesen]

Do you mind if I tell that technically, stabbing people with a sword IS a martial art? You are confusing with oriental martial artist, that involves, occasionally, stabbing people with a sword.

According to dictionary.com, martial arts are Oriental fighting forms. Stabbing someone is what swords are used for no matter the fighting style. Knights did it, the Romans did it, and yeah, samurai did it.

[Laurentio II]

According to dictionary.com, martial arts are Oriental fighting forms. Stabbing someone is what swords are used for no matter the fighting style. Knights did it, the Romans did it, and yeah, samurai did it.

I like link-fu! The Wiki. Oxford Dictionary (where "mainly" doesn't means "only")
The fact that modernly Martial Arts are considered to be oriental only, it's a common mistake. Just see the etymology (Mars), and it will became very clear that any practice useful in a combat context is a martial art.

[The Succubus]

I actually practice the martial art of stabbing someone with a sword - it's called kenjitsu.

Stabbing something with a sword doesn't make it a martial art - it's the techniques used in said stabbing.

On-topic: a welcome return for Roy!

[Shatteredtower]

After a day, I've a few more thoughts on this strip. First of all, a bit of praise for the little details. As Prowl notes, the spellcasting dummy wears a garment associated with a very familiar character. (Good eye, Prowl.) Hagnat draws the connection between Roy's training with Horace and a scene in strip #485. (Nice catch, Hagnat.) If this is the last time we'll see Eric, it's noteworthy that he's taken the role of the dragon, since the first time we saw him was when his brother was playing the role of dragon slayer. Oh, and the symmetrical assymetry of the boots Roy and Horace wears is also cute.

I realize it's just because the arrow lights up to indicate the direction the elevator is going, but there's still something amusing about the fact that the up arrow is white and down is red.

I think the Giant covered his bases well with the line, "If she can't close the deal in a few more months, I'll come back up," a very "when the time is right" condition. It suggests progress while maintaining flexibility.

As for that finale... well, I don't have anything to complain about. We had a full-sized strip by the time we reached the fifth row, ending with the line, "Can one of you people with fingers push the button with the cloud on it?" The rest is a nine-panel format bonus strip, the sort of thing I tend to associate with Keith Giffen, with a bit of a continuity nod (toward strip #100), an acknowledgement of expectations (the Giant is fond of matching big moments to centenary strips, though he's not hopelessly addicted to the practice), and a statement to the effect that he's not going to force the pacing of the story to meet such events. Admitting that he's said as much once before by reusing the same gag and admitting that it is the same gag seems entirely appropriate -- and a good means for establishing the traditional awkward silence that often goes with riding an elevator.

According to dictionary.com, martial arts are Oriental fighting forms.

In this regard, dictionary.com is incorrect. Aikido, karate, and the like are no more martial arts than fencing, capoeira, Greco-Roman style wrestling, or boxing (Queensbury rules or otherwise) -- and no less. Ancient Rome's professional armies drilled regularly in weapon forms a lot more elaborate than "poking and stabbing", and it's not like such concepts were unheard of in Europe and Asia before them.

[Scarlet Knight]

.....

Lame.

I concur. I guess Giant believes if we wait long enough for a comic, we'll be happy with anything.

[GKBeetle]

Great strip. This may not have been what many people wanted, but I think it's what the strip needed. The strip had been pretty dreary for a while now with all the fighting between members and death of Therkla. This was a great change from the status quo, and exactly what was needed for the strip at this time. That's why, in my opinion, it's the best x00 strip so far.

Plus, we get to see Roy. I've been missing him so much.

[Simons Mith]

I'm so disappointed; I was expecting more than just a let-down, I was hoping for the biggest anticlimax of my entire life. :-(

[Timberboar]

To all the people encouraged by the more upbeat tone of this strip:

You poor, poor, deluded fools.

Don't you see?

Spoiler

Show

Roy's been away from his scrying. He doesn't know what's been going on in Greysky or with Hinjo's fleet.

This bright shining moment exists only so that the letdown which follows hits all the harder.

This is NOT a turn for the better, NOT a rallying moment. This is the moment after you get cut where you don't feel anything. The pain should be coming along any strip now.

[EyethatBinds]

Yay.... filler comic.

[Shatteredtower]

Timberboar, I'm aware of the irony of this episode, in which Roy is as filled with anticipation for the events ahead as many of us had for the 600th strip. I fully expect for him to wish for a full head of hair again the moment he sees what's going on -- just so he can tear it out in frustration.

Nevertheless, he had the sense to give things a few months before he packs it in. Seems like a sensible approach, and I think I'll follow his lead at this time.

Even if I still have a bit more hair left to risk than he does.

Filler? Hardly. Roy has been up to something. I expect him to get stalled once more, but at least I know there's progress again.

[Silencer]

So, anyone else feels The Giant is booping with you?

Must be quite handy to have a healthy choice of plot threads to pick from :)

[ancev]

Omg, I've received a foreseen!

Spoiler

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Horace and Roy could push Eugene to keep him resposability about xykon quest. Eugene could come back in spirit (because Eugene is linked with the sword) and help OOTS completing xykon quests because, actually, is Eugene's curse the OOTS is following to broke, and the first time OOTS meet xykon was for this reason.
Eugene could help, linking him spirit with the sword, to make party reunion and broke the golem-things-magic.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Jammeez]

I can almost hear the Muzak.

[Eric]

Yeah, i suppose i expected too much when i hoped to see something interesting instead of receiving the usual methaphorical slap in the face. Owww.

{scrubbed}

[pendell]

To all the people encouraged by the more upbeat tone of this strip:

You poor, poor, deluded fools.

Don't you see?

Spoiler

Show

Roy's been away from his scrying. He doesn't know what's been going on in Greysky or with Hinjo's fleet.

This bright shining moment exists only so that the letdown which follows hits all the harder.

This is NOT a turn for the better, NOT a rallying moment. This is the moment after you get cut where you don't feel anything. The pain should be coming along any strip now.

Perhaps.

But y'know what? I have faith that even if this does turn into a downer , the Giant will reverse matters in time. And the pain and the down points will only make the eventual high points all the more high.

Consider: I remember the scene in the battle of Azure City when Xykon massacred the Sapphire Guard. I remember seeing that panel as the latest panel and being utterly horrified. I almost quit reading the comic that day.

And yet ... in the very next strip ... the paladins came back. And gave ol' Xykon a beating!
That was one of my favorite moments in the strip. Precisely because its predecessor was so dark, the bright shown out all the more brightly.

Nor is this the first time that has happened.

I remember the arc before, when Elan was in jail and it looked like Nale had once again avoided death by charming Belkar. And Elan kicked in the door at the last minute.

As a rule this comic is upbeat. It gets dark at points -- tragic, even -- but the Giant doesn't leave us there forever.

So far in this strip, joy does come in the morning. And I'm willing to wait patiently till it does.

If this strip does not end happily, it will only be because of events outside the control of real-life people. I think.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Adeptus]

Technically it's not martial arts, Roy is keeping with the medieval knights-and-wizards theme.

The term doesn't just refer to unarmed combat disciplines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts

"Martial arts existed in classical European civilization, most notably in Greece where sports were integral to the way of life. Boxing (pygme, pyx), Wrestling (pale) and Pankration (from pan, meaning "all", and kratos, meaning "power" or "strength") were represented in the Ancient Olympic Games. The Romans produced Gladiatorial combat as a public spectacle.

A number of historical fencing forms and manuals have survived, and many groups are working to reconstruct older European martial arts. The process of reconstruction combines intensive study of detailed combat treatises produced from 1400–1900 A.D. and practical training or "pressure testing" of various techniques and tactics. This includes such styles as sword and shield, two-handed swordfighting, halberd fighting, jousting and other types of melee weapons combat."


/edit oops, ninjad by about a dozen people

[Jorrath_Zek]

Even a repeat joke is a good joke when it's unexpected.

I'm glad the story wasn't bent to fit a number, and I'm glad we got to see Roy being seen off by everyone he loves in the Afterlife...

Based on what Gramps says to Roy, it seems that people carry thier memories of the afterlife back with them, or it wouldn't have been worth the effort. Logically, if they carry thier memories, then they should carry back thier experience regardless of the rules in so simular game type realities...

I wouldn't be surprised if the second pane was added just to slap the commentor who expected something more.

Some have speculated that there may have been another time jump, but the comments indicate that no more time has passed with Roy than we're already aware of with the other's.

I am anxious to see what heppens with V and the Imp, but I also know that is the timelines are all at the same place now, it's time to see Roy get a Regrowth spell cast on the rattling bone from his Toe.

With V's complete break down coming hard and fast, he's bound to make a choice for all the wrong reasons soon, so it's time for Roy to be back in the world of the living to both hide that choice from his eyes as well as remove the reasons that V might have for making a drastic choice.

As always, the story is coming allong well, and the readers are anxious for the next bit and upset that they can't have it all at once... Good stories are told in the details.

You can't rush awesome.

[derfenrirwolv]

Do you mind if I tell that technically, stabbing people with a sword IS a martial art? You are confusing with oriental martial artist, that involves, occasionally, stabbing people with a sword.

No! only asians have martial arts! Only asians ever learned how to fight! everything the stupid europeans made was just beating people mindlessly over the head with the biggest weapon possible! Everything asian is inherentely superior to europe! Katanas would slice through plate mail!

Spoiler

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Thats sarcasm for those of you who have come accross people who ACTUALY think like that

[The_Firenail]

Yeah...Three points about this:
-generally good
-shortest time between me first coming to this webcomic/toon (inc.H*R) and milestone (Edit: since mid-sept.)
-I actually saved the then non-existant webpage hoping it be a RickRoll (Edit: fine, but I still saved the link -after finding out it wasn't a Roll- to save me from the trouble of lagging clicks)

[David Argall]

I realize it's just because the arrow lights up to indicate the direction the elevator is going, but there's still something amusing about the fact that the up arrow is white and down is red.

On the elevator, we do have this employee only elevator that a major percentage of employees are apparently physically unable to use. Of course the archon may have other ways to operate the elevator, but on the face of it, we have a defective elevator [and maybe another excuse for allowing Roy in the elevator].

[Nerdanel]

I think the strip would have been better without the second page. Understatement, people! The first page was a good, solid page that is funny and advances the plot in a minor way. The second page explains the joke, making it utterly unfunny and a repetition of #100, and it's not that anything of significance happens in it, either.

[Talya]

The first page was a good, solid page that is funny and advances the plot in a minor way.

Minor being the main problem.

Rich, I beg you, get them back on course! Unbreak the Order of the Stick!

This is why I like Fellowship of the Ring far better than Two Towers or Return of the King, and why so many fantasy series irritate the hell out of me.

Never, ever, ever split up your party for an extended period of time in telling a story. It frustrates me.

[3Power]

600 is just a number. I suspect The Giant doesn't care if it is round and pretty. He wouldn't hurry the plot just so it magically fits in with these numbers. No decent self-respected writer would.
That is all.

Except he has done that. Half the new content in book 2 is cut-out subplots that he removed so he could get miko's reveal on time for 200.

And people! Stop whininng. "waah, I feel cheated". That was THE POINT of the joke. You don't like it? There's hundreds of webcomics out there.

The Misplaced Champion: "Fandom — love it or leave it!" This fan gets a bit too confrontational when it comes to criticism of the object of their fandom. Regardless of how mild or gentle the criticism. Regardless of how valid or reasonable the criticism. Regardless, in some cases, of how even the Word Of God may even agree with the criticism. As such, even saying that you really liked last night's episode but thought that this particular scene was a little bit lame will have him swooping down to berate you for your lack of loyalty and demanding to know why you don't just go and watch something else if you hate the show so much.

[Dunesen]

I like link-fu! The Wiki. Oxford Dictionary (where "mainly" doesn't means "only")
The fact that modernly Martial Arts are considered to be oriental only, it's a common mistake. Just see the etymology (Mars), and it will became very clear that any practice useful in a combat context is a martial art.

Perception is 9/10th of reality. The term "martial arts" in modern vernacular is meant to be applied only to Asian practices. Stuff like boxing or greco-roman wrestling just aren't called martial arts, that's the way it is.

Sure, dig up all the articles you want about how historically/technically all fighting would be called martial arts. Etymology doesn't impress me because you're using an English (western language) term for Eastern practices, which simply means the Europeans and other westerners didn't feel like learning the original foreign term.

So I stand by what I said! :p :p :p to all of you! Nyah.

Besides, Roy doesn't know any hadokens. Clearly it's not martial arts. :p

[Stiletto]

Bravo, Giant, bravo

[Carteeg_Struve]

So, what does everything think will be the explosive reveal for strip #601!?

[lyric76]

Those tired, unyielding days are made immeasurably better whenever there's a new OotS strip. Thank you Rich.

One question... is jambalya the same as jambalaya?