Erfworld 127 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 115

[Saladman]

I also just got that Stanley being sure of taking the foolamancer wasn't just a way to bring his dwagons along veiled. It also gave him the means to keep Faq hidden the same way it used to be.

I suppose that's obvious, but it has two interesting implications. One, a knowledge of Faq's circumstances before it fell. Two, Stanley really does have the makings of a good commander, if he didn't think he were fated to win and hadn't picked fights he didn't need to.

[Welf]

We assumed Jack was good, but he is real good. And that the cute l'il monster dwagon survied is a big bonus

[Oslecamo]

Jack didn't snap out of it until he saw Jillian, after we saw the dwagons already engaged. (Page 113.) It's conceivable that Jack had the juice, the action points, and the presence of mind to veil and extract the toughest engaged dwagons, but I don't consider it likely.

See what I see...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0122.html

Jack had already been working properly for some time, since Hamster called him.

Rebuilding a ruined city doesn't imply waiting neutral units to me. FAQ had an heir, so it wouldn't go neutral at the death of its ruler like Gobwin Knob is expected to. And I'm not sure about the fat defense bonus, beyond what we already know about city defense from Gobwin Knob. A tunnel zone, walls and an air zone, all of which have to be controlled by the defender to protect the inner garrison.

Jillian is a barbarian(no side), so I don't really believe that there are still any units loyal to her. Stanley didn't become a barbarian just because he was out of town.

Stanley's plan in its ideal form relied on his enemies not knowing there was a ruined capital city site there, so he was probably counting on ordering some units popped to properly garrison it. Now that his destination's been made, if he knows its been made, he'll have to alter the plan

I also wonder what Stanley will do when he realizes his side hasn't fallen yet. I think Gobwin Knob has to fall before Stanley can start a new side. And Stanley clearly expected them to fall, he wasn't sure if Parson et al were traitors or just hopelessly incompetent. So I picture him tapping his watch if he had one, checking the time and the turn date, wondering what's taking so long.

I noticed now he exited by the east side(Gobwin's knob direction), and knowing his plan to build a new city, he probably will decide to contact Maggie and, seeing that Hamster is pwning the coalition, decide to go back.

On the other hand, FAQ seemed to be composed of several cities, so Stanley could hide in one of them and use Jack to make it look just like another ruin, allowing him to slowly rebuild his forces even if the vampires went looking for him. Start a guerrilla.

[Laurentio II]

Not even close. Turn order goes:

Dawn
TV
Charlie
GK
Coalition
Dusk

And it is still GK turn, so there are some things that can happen between now and TV's next turn. Also, TV has no lookamancer in the field, so it is unlikely that they know where the hell Stanley is, unless he makes it back to GK, in which case, Ansom is so screwed.

Sigh... yes, thanks.
As I was saying, it will be Transylvito turn before Stanley can move again, and it's bad for him.

About Stanley getting back to GW, it's possible, especially if he flies over the Coalition scouts, but he will be hardly back before Ansom attack the walls.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Stanely wants to go west, so he can reach Faq. East takes him back to Knob. We know Parson told Jack, to find a means in getting the Tool to go back to Knob. If Stanley is heading to Knob (which I think he is), its because Jack is following Parson's most recent orders. I think its safe to assume the Tool wanted to punch through TOWARDS Faq, not away from it. Seeing as how Parson and the Tool have conflicting orders – or at least intentions – I wonder if units obey commands like real military soldiers are supposed to: last given.

While Faq is apparently west of GK, it's also pretty certain (from Jillian's earlier comments) that Stanley's route to Faq wasn't the most direct. It's also been suggested in this forum that the pass that Stanley is using to enter Faq may be on the far side of it from GK. If that's the case, then going east will take Stanley closer to Faq, also taking him physically closer to, but practically farther from, GK.

Having to go around Faq to reach the pass might help to explain how Jillian was able to get there ahead of him, despite having slower mounts.

[MattR]

It looks nearly like a retcon, by I'm happy that Stanley's personal Dwagon isn't as fragile as it appeared in the previous strip.

In other, more disappointing news, the Transylvito warlady with the red shirt is still alive.

How almost like a retcon? Jack's ability to cast distractions and his status as a master foolamancer have been mentioned/alluded to on many occasions. To get the page up so fast it had to have been worked on right after the last was posted, i dont think it was made in response to comments on the forums.

also, Jack is Titany... that is all.

[Jayngfet]

Clever, wonder who came up with this plan?

[MythicFox]

The main thing that comes to mind when reading this one is...

"Jack is that good, and Stanley thought the best place for him is operating a friggin' hologram table? GAH!"

[The Rose Dragon]

However, the hologram table is not the only thing the linked Eyemancers can do. They also created the eyebooks, and they give the Gobwin Knob unmatched intelligence. And it wouldn't be possible without a foolamancer.

[lug0si]

mind-blowing!
i'm one of those who were quite disappointed about the dragon's swift death in page 113. to see a griffon being able to deliver a bite that devastating to the massively armored neck of a dragon that huge - what a hard pill to swallow!
and now when you look at page 113 again, there's always that swarm of bats around Jillian & Stanley.
brilliant! thank you Sirs!

[Ronald_saveloy]

It seems the Tool is at least doing, what Parson is hoping he would do. He didn't end his turn to early.

[Saladman]

See what I see...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0122.html

Jack had already been working properly for some time, since Hamster called him.

Or he was still nuts but not catatonic, so able to make a spot check. Its possible, I guess, but why fake it so well with Parson, and what was the "Compos" effect when Jillian called his name?

Jillian is a barbarian(no side), so I don't really believe that there are still any units loyal to her. Stanley didn't become a barbarian just because he was out of town.

Uh... maybe I'm not being as clear as I am in my own head. Its been established on page that Jillian was Faq's heir before she went barbarian. If Faq hadn't been destroyed she wouldn't have gone barbarian. And I don't see how you have neutral units left hanging out in a destroyed city. The only way we have established to have neutral units in a city is for the sovereign to croak without an heir and the city to go neutral.

I didn't mean that there were loose units loyal to Jillian still. My only point was that I didn't see how there could be any loose neutral units for Stanley to pick up on rebuilding the city.

[thevorpalbunny]

"Compos" as in "Non compos mentis," the legal term meaning "too crazy to be accountable for their actions or stand trial."
That was definitively the moment when Jack regained sanity.

[upo]

my guess is that the veil/distraction/whatever was cast in page 114, just after the dragon let loose its breath weapon..that's few moments after Jack reckognized Jillian, and the first time that the dragon-shaped cloud of bats can be seen. That would probably mean gg for all the other dragons, even if technically i guess that Stanley could be waiting for any lucky survivors just after the hex barrier, mocking Transvito/Jillian in the process :)

awesome page, btw

[DevilDan]

Stanley won't be discomfited when he finds that he isn't a barbarian in the next turn; at worst, it would likely mean that he has access to whatever funds he was forced to leave behind in GK.

Even if Stanley can't make it to a Faq city in this turn, he still has Jack to cast veils. And don't forget that Caesar wasn't happy to learn of Jack's existence; Vinnie allayed his worries (partially) by pointing out that there was a bottleneck hex so that the combined senses of all the warlords could focus on it. Now the alliance forces will have to do a hex-by-hex search as they try to follow Stanley. They also lost bats and possibly several warlords to boot.

I think it likelier that Stanley, Jack, and whatever other units made it out alive are still heading to Faq. (And to those who think Jack either fooled or convinced Stanley into returning to GK, don't forget that it was Jack who pointed out to Parson that Stanley's presence, even with his dragons untouched, could be a liability to Parson.)

I love this! Also, I want to see Faq rebuild itself by magic when Stanley's next turn arrives, assuming he makes it there. (Of course, it'll be a while yet...)

[Thydron]

Awesome page.

Given Jack can't cast veils from another hex, he probably can't cast distractions from afar either, so it looks like Stanley has left at least some of his dragons in the Translyvito Hex (they're still seen in the final panel after Jack's left the hex).

The East / West thing is interesting, either way Stanley's probably not going to risk going bast the vamps again, so if Jack has managed to turn him around he'll head back to Gobwin Knob (maybe in time to help Parson out with Charlie s units in a turn? [or maybe bumping into them on their way back to Charlie with Parson in tow?] or just after Parson has routed the Coalition, leading to another "great plan Tool!" moment :P). Given that this bit of the Erfworld story seems to be drawing to a close, it seems like a quicker way of wrapping things up than having Stanley actually getting to Faq.

[FoE]

Hey, I just noticed that Jillian dumped the wig.

[Calmness]

Very nice. I was worried it was a retcon but reading the comments about the bat cloud in 126 changed my mind.

Also: casters are all disgustingly overpowered in Erfworld. Wanda, Sizemore and Jack have all proven themselves vital to GKs defense, whether by slaughtering entire stacks by themselves or getting the tool out of a nigh inscapable situation, i guess that's why there are so few of them though.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Because waiting for the whole unit to catch up, would take longer. By ditching them, and letting them hold up the enemy, it gave him an ever greater chance to escape the Hex... which he did.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html


Due west is what Stanley says so.... you take it for what thats worth

Yeah I think Stanley is no longer interested in Faq since it's obviously no longer a secret hiding spot. He's either heading back to Gobwin Knob or he's got a plan C.

You know Stanley's motto, "But the thing about a quest for ultimate power in world is that it's bound to turn out well".

Or maybe Stanley also adheres to the philosophy of "If the plan does not plan for problems outside the plan, then it isn't a plan along."

[teratorn]

I guess the dwagon went hiding after it barbecued the gwiffons (Jillian was even covering her eyes then). I think Parson will like Jack.

The dwagons remaining in the hex are probably doomed, without a warlord they'll be forced to fight. Maybe the ones who finish their engagements can follow orders from the tool, but Caeser probably won't waste the chance to level the other warlords (he's probably too wounded to fight himself).

There is an added bonus. Jack knows the shortest way back to GK.

Stanley is safe now, because even if he can only move by something like 20 hex that's a huge area to cover for a searching party.

[Oslecamo]

Or he was still nuts but not catatonic, so able to make a spot check.

He didn't just make a spot check, he used some kind of magic to give enanched vision to Stanley, who was flying head on against the enemy whitout expecting it, thus saving his life, giving him time to make some dance preparation.

Its possible, I guess, but why fake it so well with Parson, and what was the "Compos" effect when Jillian called his name?

I believe he just likes acting that way, just as Wanda likes dressing skimpy clothes and Sizemore likes being so humble and Maggie being so self controled. Do note that his quotes change of style after speaking with Hamster and he actually starts to make sense.

But then he sees Jillian, the woman he loves, and "compos", he drops "Joker" mode and proceeds to get a way to make sure she doesn't get smashed into pieces by Stanley. Just like any guy would get a change of mind if the one he loves is sudenly in danger just in front of him.

The background sound effects can indeed mean important things like spells and major effects, but they also can mean simple things, like pwned and orly.

Uh... maybe I'm not being as clear as I am in my own head. Its been established on page that Jillian was Faq's heir before she went barbarian. If Faq hadn't been destroyed she wouldn't have gone barbarian. And I don't see how you have neutral units left hanging out in a destroyed city. The only way we have established to have neutral units in a city is for the sovereign to croak without an heir and the city to go neutral.

I didn't mean that there were loose units loyal to Jillian still. My only point was that I didn't see how there could be any loose neutral units for Stanley to pick up on rebuilding the city.

Well, my theory it's that just as Saline V had an alliance with the gobwins, maybe FAQ has some indigenous population, wich Stanley can get control off with some hammer "diplomacy".

Like some people said, it's possible that a large group of dwagons took nest in FAQ after destroying it, from wich Stanley took several to his army but left some wild to keep "breeding", and now he goes there to refill his numbers.

[Traker]

I liked the comic. I also liked the fact that they can't leave the hex on the other sides turn.

[DevilDan]

Also: casters are all disgustingly overpowered in Erfworld. Wanda, Sizemore and Jack have all proven themselves vital to GKs defense, whether by slaughtering entire stacks by themselves or getting the tool out of a nigh inscapable situation, i guess that's why there are so few of them though.

Wanda didn't fry Jillian's task force all by herself, she "fired off" most of GK's air defenses (whatever that means precisely).

The dwagons remaining in the hex are probably doomed, without a warlord they'll be forced to fight. Maybe the ones who finish their engagements can follow orders from the tool, but Caeser probably won't waste the chance to level the other warlords (he's probably too wounded to fight himself).

There is an added bonus. Jack knows the shortest way back to GK.

Stacks with surviving KISS warlords (though we have no reason to believe there are any left) can still choose to not engage.

It's pretty clear to me ("But a wise man gets more from his enemies than a fool from his friends.") that, at least initially, Jack thought that Stanley should not return to Faq. Could that have changed? Possibly, given Stanley's reduced numbers. But, overall, Stanley could have as much chance of surviving in the wild and with Jack's help than returning to GK, and Stanley certainly doesn't think that GK has any chance of surviving. He may not head for Faq, but what's left for him in GK?

[Ragn Charran]

Pretty well crafted illusion if it was "solid enough" for Jillian and the Gwiffon to actually touch it, hang on to it and inflict damage on it without ever realizing that it wasn't the real dwagon.

My take is that at that time the illusion was still overlaid on top of the real dwagon. Assuming that Jack's can't cast two spells at once, and that the bat veil and the fake dwagon aren't all part of the same spell, he first had to create the fake dwagon, and to prevent suspicion it would have to be directly on top of the real dragon (else there would suddenly be a second dragon for all to see, a dead giveaway). Next spell he cast was the veil on the dwagon, to swap it for a cloud of bats while the illusionary dwagon hid the implementation. Final spell was to veil himself and Stanley into bats, which was not noticed in the midst of all the other bats that formed the dwagon veil.

If that's the case, then the gwiffon really did bite the real dwagon, and Jillian really did stab the real dwagon, since it was underneath the illusion. They just didn't do nearly the damage they thought, which makes sense considering how ****ing badass that dwagon looks!!! Even if Jack could do the fake dwagon and the veil at the same it, it made sense to do it that way anyways to greatly increase the realism of the trick - hell, it fooled all of us!

[Ragn Charran]

Stacks with surviving KISS warlords (though we have no reason to believe there are any left) can still choose to not engage.

The KISS knights aren't warlords AFAIK, they're just different kinds of units.

[fendrin]

The KISS knights aren't warlords AFAIK, they're just different kinds of units.

This is correct, unless Stanley promoted them 'off camera', which is unlikely.

Furthermore, Wanda's comment about 200 living men and the Stupid Meal counts imply that Stanley cannot promote non-humans to be warlords.

The existence of non-human warlords is confirmed by the existence of Tarfu.

I extrapolate from this that overlords may only promote warlords of their own race.

[Etheric]

Stacks with surviving KISS warlords (though we have no reason to believe there are any left) can still choose to not engage.

They are not warlords, they are heavy infantry units.

We met all the warlords in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0027.html

[Oslecamo]

If that's the case, then the gwiffon really did bite the real dwagon, and Jillian really did stab the real dwagon, since it was underneath the illusion.

Except that as the dwagon exits the hex his armor isn't half destroyed like we saw with the illusionary dragon.

[DevilDan]

The KISS knights aren't warlords AFAIK, they're just different kinds of units.

My mistake. I should have said that they may be "leaders" or have the leadership trait. If they are the best three among Stanley's elites, that may well be the case.

[docstrange]

Wonderful, wonderful. great continuity & resolution for the past several strips.

-Jillian is the one to make Jack "compos", by being the first to call him by name.
-I agree with the comments: the last thing that dwagon did before the veil was barbecuing the gwiffon. That blinded everyone nearby and allowed the illusion to happen.

Bravo! Jack is so good, HE FOOLED ALL OF US!