Erfworld 127 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 115

[Lamech]

Has this been brought up yet? Vinny was under the distinct impression the arkenpliers by virtue of being an artifact could remove the dwagon threat. Now I doubt those arcons would be very happy with Charlie if he stopped mind controlling them. In fact I bet they would want to remain free forever... Regardless Stanley might save GK from Charlie by his mere presence.
Assuming that he is in fact heading back there.

[Zolem]

Next comic prediction

Spoiler

Show

Ceaser: What do you mean the entire fight was a distraction spell? We didn't croak any units?

Vinny: Well look on the bright side, at least none of ours realy croaked either.

[Stormthorn]

Interesting prediction but that would be getting really complicated. I mean, thet already made a clean gettaway and kept the big dragon.

[ralphmerridew]

Now that his destination's been made, if he knows its been made, he'll have to alter the plan.

There's no evidence that Stanley knows Jillian is the heir to FAQ. Without Jillian, even if the Alliance knows he went through the pass, they'd have no idea where exactly he was heading.

But with Jack functional again, he might tell Tool about Jillian.

[AngryAngel]

There's no evidence that Stanley knows Jillian is the heir to FAQ. Without Jillian, even if the Alliance knows he went through the pass, they'd have no idea where exactly he was heading.

But with Jack functional again, he might tell Tool about Jillian.

Stanley doesn't need to know that Jillian is the heir to Faq. The mere fact that he was headed there and ran headlong into an Alliance ambush in the one hex that made passage through mountains along the way possible would be enough to make him consider that somebody somehow figured out where he was going. The particulars of who and how don't really matter at this point.

[Name Lips]

Jack is going to die.

I love him, we all love him, and he's a great tie-in to the FAQ storyline.


But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

If he stays around, doing everything in his power to help Stanley, the story will quickly begin to center around Jack. All speculation will center around Jack. Jack will be the primary tool in the Tool's army. The story could get very boring if Jack is always there to Foolamancy-win every engagement.

On the other hand, if he's simply absent from battles, so that Hamster and Stanley and Wanda get center stage, people will wonder where Jack is. "Stanely should use Jack here, he could solve the whole thing!" It wouldn't be believable that Jack isn't being used to the best of his abilities.

The only real solution, plot-wise, is for Jack to die. Perhaps in some grand revelation about FAQ/Jillian. But die he must.

If there is some other believable way to pull him out of the picture without killing him, I don't know what it is.

[MattR]

There's no evidence that Stanley knows Jillian is the heir to FAQ. Without Jillian, even if the Alliance knows he went through the pass, they'd have no idea where exactly he was heading.

But with Jack functional again, he might tell Tool about Jillian.

He knows that somehow his enemies managed to get ahead of him and spring an ambush, this may confirm in his mind suspicions about a traitor. It also shows that his enemies have an idea of where he was heading. I wonder if he'll even recognise Jillian.

[MattR]

Jack is going to die.

I love him, we all love him, and he's a great tie-in to the FAQ storyline.


But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

If he stays around, doing everything in his power to help Stanley, the story will quickly begin to center around Jack. All speculation will center around Jack. Jack will be the primary tool in the Tool's army. The story could get very boring if Jack is always there to Foolamancy-win every engagement.

On the other hand, if he's simply absent from battles, so that Hamster and Stanley and Wanda get center stage, people will wonder where Jack is. "Stanely should use Jack here, he could solve the whole thing!" It wouldn't be believable that Jack isn't being used to the best of his abilities.

The only real solution, plot-wise, is for Jack to die. Perhaps in some grand revelation about FAQ/Jillian. But die he must.

If there is some other believable way to pull him out of the picture without killing him, I don't know what it is.

He's powerful, but um.. didnt you noticed they DIDNT win that engagement? Stanley lost most if not all of his dwagons and fled.

there are lots of ways Jack's skills can be used, i'll enjoy seeing them revealed each time.

[Name Lips]

He's powerful, but um.. didnt you noticed they DIDNT win that engagement? Stanley lost most if not all of his dwagons and fled.

there are lots of ways Jack's skills can be used, i'll enjoy seeing them revealed each time.

He only got his powers mid-battle. If he'd been up and running before the battle started, I'm confident that Stanley would have either sneaked through veiled, or punched through like he had planned.

[Olibarro]

But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

If that were true, then Stanley would have just used him to win everything before he ever summoned Parson. There are limits.

#1 Movement is limited, and Jack can't be everywhere at once.

#2 Transylvito just demonstrated that especially for BIG deceptions, if you know enough to look for it, then it's easy to figure out. Once the opposition gets wise to the fact that a powerful foolamancer is in the mix, they'll know to look for deceptions and possibly have some sort of Lookamancy/Findamancy that helps them along.

Jack would be an invaluable tool, especially in Parson's clever hands, but that doesn't mean he has to be an unstoppable uber-force. Once the foolamancer has lost the element of surprise, his powers would seem to be less effective.

Having said all that, I still think Jack is going to die. Just not for those reasons.

[MrWeaver]

Quick question - Did you guys decide if the distraction croaked a gwiffin and some Orlies?

That'd add a whole 'nother element to the power huh?

In their element, we've seen each caster can have devestating power. In the tunnels he dug, Sizemore croacked a small army under his own steam. Of course he got help, but clearly he proved extremely effective (How cost effective I wonder?).

Hopefully we see Wanda in her element (besides her air defences!) soon. Jack would have been a wonderful addition to the tunnel battles by luring the enemy and otherwise guiding them where they're wanted, though the Gobwins filled this role fantastically.

In a large battle, all the foolamancer can do (in a nut shell) is to make you appear strong where you are weak (make scouts report your walls are filled with troops, while you concentrate undergrond, or praps ward the enemy from your flanks), or weak where you are strong (to set a trap for example).

I'd say he is no more uber than GK's uber intel.

[DevilDan]

Despite all the cleverness, I'm not convinced that Stanley is heading back in the direction of GK, that he would want to return to GK, or that he could even be induced to return to GK. Jack clearly didn't think that Parson would benefit from Stanley's disruptive presence. Parson clearly has a reasonable chance of surviving without Stanley; his odds may well be higher now that the Dirtamancer has successfully held the tunnels; and Stanley has likely lost at least a good number of dwagons.

We don't know that Stanley lost all his dwagons save for his mount! Last time around, everyone assumed that there were no dwagons left after his mount was (we thought) cwoaked. Now we see that there are several, probably quite a few, still engaged in furious combat.

[Lamech]

Jack is going to die.

I love him, we all love him, and he's a great tie-in to the FAQ storyline.


But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

If he stays around, doing everything in his power to help Stanley, the story will quickly begin to center around Jack. All speculation will center around Jack. Jack will be the primary tool in the Tool's army. The story could get very boring if Jack is always there to Foolamancy-win every engagement.

On the other hand, if he's simply absent from battles, so that Hamster and Stanley and Wanda get center stage, people will wonder where Jack is. "Stanely should use Jack here, he could solve the whole thing!" It wouldn't be believable that Jack isn't being used to the best of his abilities.

The only real solution, plot-wise, is for Jack to die. Perhaps in some grand revelation about FAQ/Jillian. But die he must.

If there is some other believable way to pull him out of the picture without killing him, I don't know what it is.

Yeah he is very strong, but so are all the casters...
Maggie = makes powerful units work for you, long range command, and possibly deadly assassination ablity in combat.
Wanda = large portion of GK's forces from croakamancy and who knows what else. This is ignoring the findamancy ablities, and thinkamancy ablities she has because normal casters lack multiple schools of magic.
Sizemore = he built GK's tunnels and got them large amounts of cash, I make attacking tunnels not designed for defense suicidal. He made GK the best defensive postion in the world.

The casters are all very powerful units, many are capable of turning overwhelming numbers of enemies into a total slaughter of said enemies. Just because Jack can do the same means nothing. GK clearly is the one with the superweapons at their disposal...

[SteveD]

Despite all the cleverness, I'm not convinced that Stanley is heading back in the direction of GK...

Its not cleverness at all. Pebot posted this on the first page, I've no idea how you all missed it. We've known from strip 96 and 111 that Stanley travelled due West from Gobwin Knob to get to Faq. We know from this strip he left the ambush hex heading East.

So unless there's some really convoluted terrain going on here, he's heading away from Faq and back towards Gobwin Knob (wether he's actually going back to GK is another issue all together). Rob and Jamie have been rather good with the details so far, no reason why we should doubt em now.

[The Rose Dragon]

So unless there's some really convoluted terrain going on here, he's heading away from Faq and back towards Gobwin Knob (wether he's actually going back to GK is another issue all together).

The theory is that while Faq itself is to the west of Gobwin Knob, the passage to Faq lies to the west of both. So, moving east from the passage would mean one gets closer to Faq and (hex-wise) further away from Gobwin Knob, according to it.

[Lamech]

Quick question - Did you guys decide if the distraction croaked a gwiffin and some Orlies?

In panel two their was no viel yet and their it hit two gwiffions, and killed one, and since only one gwiffion died the viel did NOT kill a gwiffion. In panel three we see an orly saying "G2G DED!" So that orly may have bit it, but the dead gwiffion was taking a nose dive their too. Also one got turned into a nut. At that point the swarm of bats was there. So it is possible that the G2G-orly died to an illusion and a second one dropped from the sky and looks like a nut.
Assuming two orlies died in the third panel and the dwagon was in the viel, maybe the illusion killed a couple of orlies, but how? It could also be the case Jack messed their senses up and dropped them out of the sky, but why not drop gwiffions? It is also possible as an FAQ caster he can manage other types of magic and killed the orlies himself.

You know with all Jillian's jumping around the foolamancer could have killed her really easily.

[SteveMB]

But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

Not necessarily -- Foolamancy has a risk of failure, with a chance that increases in direct proportion to the number of units being veiled and the number of enemy warlords. Note that in this case, the distraction was detected and Stanley's veiled mount was found, just slightly too late.

[Kyouhen]

In panel two their was no viel yet and their it hit two gwiffions, and killed one, and since only one gwiffion died the viel did NOT kill a gwiffion. In panel three we see an orly saying "G2G DED!" So that orly may have bit it, but the dead gwiffion was taking a nose dive their too. Also one got turned into a nut. At that point the swarm of bats was there. So it is possible that the G2G-orly died to an illusion and a second one dropped from the sky and looks like a nut.
Assuming two orlies died in the third panel and the dwagon was in the viel, maybe the illusion killed a couple of orlies, but how? It could also be the case Jack messed their senses up and dropped them out of the sky, but why not drop gwiffions? It is also possible as an FAQ caster he can manage other types of magic and killed the orlies himself.

You know with all Jillian's jumping around the foolamancer could have killed her really easily.

Here's a thought though. Wouldn't Jack have to make it appear as if those bats were coming up to the dwagon? Someone surely would have noticed such a large number just randomly appearing out of nowhere. I think that first he created the bats further away, then had them approach as the dwagon killed the orlies and the gwiffon. Once they were beside them he cast the distraction dwagon and veiled the real one, moving the real one where the bats were and making their escape.

[kreszantas]

Here's a thought though. Wouldn't Jack have to make it appear as if those bats were coming up to the dwagon? Someone surely would have noticed such a large number just randomly appearing out of nowhere. I think that first he created the bats further away, then had them approach as the dwagon killed the orlies and the gwiffon. Once they were beside them he cast the distraction dwagon and veiled the real one, moving the real one where the bats were and making their escape.

You and I have similar take on the situation, it may not be correct however. Ever since #110 proclaimation of See what I see is where I "think" Jack pulled his trick casting THEN and let everything take it's due course right after the Tool giving the "were punching through order." Jack did not have much choice but to cast it then and that is why I feel his Joker's face is sooo prominate in the last frame.

[spoddington]

But he's simply too powerful. He's more than an ace up the sleeve - he's powerful enough to turn the tide of ANY battle he's involved in. He's just too uber.

Casters are not normally used in battle, as they are too valuable to risk.
So they may be very powerful, but they wouldn't usually use that power on the battlefield, except in extreme circumstances.

[DevilDan]

Casters are not normally used in battle, as they are too valuable to risk.
So they may be very powerful, but they wouldn't usually use that power on the battlefield, except in extreme circumstances.

And why use casters in a single hex, tactically, when you can use them strategically? If Wanda, no dummy, thinks that linking the casters as Stanley did was a truly clever move then there must have been serious advantages garnered even before Parson applied his own strategic genius to the situation.

On Maggie: I think the link was never broken on a nightly basis, it was still maintained at some level. Otherwise, why would there be any harm in Parson talking to Misty when the casters were not operating in unison? It needed to be broken specifically so that Stanley could take Jack out of GK. Maggie simply protected herself from the effects of breaking such hazardous and difficult spell. Her behavior was not nefarious, but merely human.

[SteveD]

The theory is that while Faq itself is to the west of Gobwin Knob, the passage to Faq lies to the west of both. So, moving east from the passage would mean one gets closer to Faq and (hex-wise) further away from Gobwin Knob, according to it.

Which I agree is plausible (if it was a bubble kingdom, it must have had limited terrain access). But there simply isn't any detail in the comic to directly support it.

[MattR]

And why use casters in a single hex, tactically, when you can use them strategically? If Wanda, no dummy, thinks that linking the casters as Stanley did was a truly clever move then there must have been serious advantages garnered even before Parson applied his own strategic genius to the situation.

On Maggie: I think the link was never broken on a nightly basis, it was still maintained at some level. Otherwise, why would there be any harm in Parson talking to Misty when the casters were not operating in unison? It needed to be broken specifically so that Stanley could take Jack out of GK. Maggie simply protected herself from the effects of breaking such hazardous and difficult spell. Her behavior was not nefarious, but merely human.

As i mentioned before we only have Wanda's word speaking to Misty that night had any effect on their ability to function (even then this might just have been in terms of them not wanting one of the casters too tired to hold up their side of the trimancer when they are linked up), she has her own motives and since a lookamancer may be able to see everything going on in its own hex.. including Wanda's activities... she might have wanted to stop Misty from talking to anyone.

Misty approached Parson AND decided to stay even when he said to leave. Why would they risk their own life? theyd clearly be aware of the risks if they were still linked.

[DevilDan]

Misty approached Parson AND decided to stay even when he said to leave. Why would they risk their own life? theyd clearly be aware of the risks if they were still linked.

Altruism or just being a nice person? Interacting with a person and being talked to and treated as something other than a useful object? Helping someone who might help her side survive?

[Gez]

As i mentioned before we only have Wanda's word speaking to Misty that night had any effect on their ability to function

So, you don't trust Sizemore's word? He's a guy who has a good theoretic knowledge of all sorts of magic, by the way, even if he's only skilled for dirtamancy.

[MattR]

So, you don't trust Sizemore's word? He's a guy who has a good theoretic knowledge of all sorts of magic, by the way, even if he's only skilled for dirtamancy.

Sizemore was never told what situation Parson had been trying to speak to Misty in.

Also Three-caster linking is rare if its even ever been tried before so no-one could really know what effect talking to someone in it could have.

Doesn't anyone even think its weird Stanley of all people came up with the idea of linking them?

[MattR]

Altruism or just being a nice person? Interacting with a person and being talked to and treated as something other than a useful object? Helping someone who might help her side survive?

As part of a powerful and important tool for the side i.e. the table, if it was really so dangerous for Misty to interact with anyone don't you think theyd have sat down and said 'hey dont talk to people, your head might explode or you'll break one of the few advantages we have.' I'm not buying altruism as a reason to deliberately risk everything.. maybe some kind of suicidal urge.

Frankly if it's that big a risk why arent the casters locked up?

[Welf]

Misty approached Parson AND decided to stay even when he said to leave. Why would they risk their own life? theyd clearly be aware of the risks if they were still linked.

Misty seemes to have lost a lot of her personality; maybe that included her survival instinct.

[Laurentio II]

Frankly if it's that big a risk why arent the casters locked up?

Probably, it's socially accepted that no one speak to the linked wizards, and so they don't take precaution.

[teratorn]

Misty approached Parson AND decided to stay even when he said to leave. Why would they risk their own life? theyd clearly be aware of the risks if they were still linked.

Maybe she just missed being talked to and interact with others. She looked liked a nice person. The day after her survival instincts probably kicked in.

You and I have similar take on the situation, it may not be correct however. Ever since #110 proclaimation of See what I see is where I "think" Jack pulled his trick casting THEN and let everything take it's due course right after the Tool giving the "were punching through order." Jack did not have much choice but to cast it then and that is why I feel his Joker's face is sooo prominate in the last frame.

His eyes only went back to normal after he saw Jillian (they reversed color). The illusion was cast when the dwagon grilled the gwiffons (Jillian even covered her eyes then). The fireworks made for nice cover. The orlies that were killed may have been illusions too, to give the impression the tool was fighting.